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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 10:38 AM
In Rainy, Thunder, and Poor weather, I'm getting a nasty kickback effect on my MS Sidewinder 2 stick.

It usually happens at altitudes below 300 meters, and then in some planes I've flown again I think somewhere around 800 meters.

I've meanwhile learnt that this simulates something the air does to the elevator (the effect is only on the elevator axis), but honestly, it doesn't feel like air.

Not being a pilot, I can only report this personal impression, but it doesn't feel convincing to me. Maybe real pilots could say their opinions regarding this effect.

I've not tested 'Blind' weather, don't know if it occurs there as well, but it's not in Good, Clear or Hazy weather.

If that effect could be weakened a bit, or made to feel somehow softer, I'd personally find it more convincing.

Just a report, apologies for any misunderstandings or mistakes on my part.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 10:38 AM
In Rainy, Thunder, and Poor weather, I'm getting a nasty kickback effect on my MS Sidewinder 2 stick.

It usually happens at altitudes below 300 meters, and then in some planes I've flown again I think somewhere around 800 meters.

I've meanwhile learnt that this simulates something the air does to the elevator (the effect is only on the elevator axis), but honestly, it doesn't feel like air.

Not being a pilot, I can only report this personal impression, but it doesn't feel convincing to me. Maybe real pilots could say their opinions regarding this effect.

I've not tested 'Blind' weather, don't know if it occurs there as well, but it's not in Good, Clear or Hazy weather.

If that effect could be weakened a bit, or made to feel somehow softer, I'd personally find it more convincing.

Just a report, apologies for any misunderstandings or mistakes on my part.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 11:23 AM
I always assumed it was turbulence modeling. I don't have a force feedback stick, but it still shakes the cockpit noticably. It is not unusual to encounter some degree of turbulence when flying in and around clouds since they are created by heating and cooling effects. By their very nature cumulous clouds are bumpy because of their creation by "lifting action". Stratus clouds are usually indicative of stable air, hence their smooth, horizontally layered composition. It does seem like the 300-400 meters above ground level is where it dissipates.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 11:25 AM
It is meant to simulate the mechanical turbulence that wind causes near the ground. That said, the intention is very good, but the implementation is not. The impression is nothing like flying in turbilent air.
_
/Bjorn.

Tully__
07-31-2003, 11:55 AM
My only ride in a light plane in mildly turbulent air felt pretty much identical to driving in a car on an ungraded hard clay road. When the elevator hits a change in air flow at over 100mph, it's going to kick some...

Not actually having held the control or used FFB, I can't say how realistic it is in the game.

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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 12:02 PM
Never once have I felt the wind kick the control surfaces. I have, on several occations, felt the whole plane being kicked around, though. Once bad enough to hit my head in the ceiling (was strapped in, but seemingly not tight enough.)
_
/Bjorn.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 09:47 PM
I have my FFB settings at max and when I get in that ridiculous turbulence I almost throw my controller through the wall its so frustrating. It bucks and kicks so hard it makes flying difficult much less aiming/shooting, which in turbulence is just a crap shoot (literally). I love FFB so turning it off isn't an option. Hope it gets toned down or something.

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XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 08:19 AM
It's not my intention to start a long discussion about the FF effects, but the effect I get when a bomb is released is also not entirely understandable to me.

I have no idea what the stick should feel like in that moment and can only guess, but the current effect is very difficult for me to interpret, and to relate to something actually going on with the plane in that moment.

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 10:27 AM
hi,
..backup the original FF Files in the Force Feedback Folder + try the 'blade123' low FF files..
look at: http://www.mudmovers.com/index.htm

anyway..the shake effects modelling + programming in bad weather..in general turbulence situation with normal non FF stick is too much(I call them 'Sibirian weather effects effects'.. hehe ... same as this 'Hollywood nozle flashes'..)

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 11:42 AM
starfighter1:
I couldn't find the files you mentioned (Blade123). Could you please link us to the files instead of the start page? (Yes, I tried to search but still didn't find them...)

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 12:30 PM
hi,
they moved it sorry ..blade124? look also in techforum..
here the email to ask direct: blade124@attbi.com


Ketalar wrote:
- starfighter1:
- I couldn't find the files you mentioned (Blade123).
- Could you please link us to the files instead of the
- start page? (Yes, I tried to search but still didn't
- find them...)
-
-

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 02:53 PM
I am ok with most of the FF effects. But the effect I'm referring to really feels like as if someone is kicking the joystick, rather than air attack the control surfaces.

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 05:32 PM
I use the fedit program to modify each and every one of my force feedback files in FB, so the most I will ever experiance is a pleasant vibrating feeling. That being said, what you are feeing is the "punch" file, and it is quite annoying and poorly implemented.

There are bugs aplenty in the FF effects.

Heck just drop your bombs or fire rockets. There is nothing really wrong with the bomb/rocket FFB effect in itself. The problem though is after you drop bombs/rockets, each and every time you press your guns button, the bombs/rockets FFB effect happens! Don't hold your breath on it ever getting fixed either.

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"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 08/01/0312:34PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 06:24 PM
hi,
..backup the ff files + throw out all files + test
with FF on..

..+ recognice all main movement effects in general ..

..I call them 'sibirisch weather show-effects'


by the way to Your link: the infomrmation minister were catched some weeks ago.. + believe me ..to get more real informations by use of torture..strictly is forbidden..


RayBanJockey wrote:
-

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 07:21 PM
starfighter1 wrote:
- hi,
- ..backup the ff files + throw out all files + test
- with FF on..
-
- ..+ recognice all main movement effects in general
- ..
-
- ..I call them 'sibirisch weather show-effects'
-
-
- by the way to Your link: the infomrmation minister
- were catched some weeks ago.. + believe me ..to get
- more real informations by use of torture..strictly
- is forbidden..

Please use correct spelling and correct grammer. Nobody can tell what the hell it is you just said.


<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 08/01/0310:01PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 09:00 PM
yea

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cwsommer/stadler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 09:40 PM
RayBan*******, being even more of a daft git than usual, dropped this pile of virtual manure:

"Please use correct spelling and correct grammer."

Amazing. Simply amazing.

No sig as of now, as people apparently can't handle reality without creating too much trouble for the poor mods.

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 10:22 PM
hi,
OK ..step by step..only for our greate ace..

1. backup the FF files

2. unload all seven ffe/files ..(seven!.. RayBan, You know
James Bond 007 ?)

..play .. that's it



RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- Please use correct spelling and correct grammer.
- Nobody can tell what the hell it is you just said.
-

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 12:04 AM
starfighter1 wrote:
- hi,
- OK ..step by step..only for our greate ace..
-
- 1. backup the FF files
-
- 2. unload all seven ffe/files ..(seven!.. RayBan,
- You know
- James Bond 007 ?)
-
-
- ..play .. that's it



How about people who have any problem just throw their CD away and never play the game?

Same logic.

Please, if you don't have anything constructive to say, just go to that other forum called a complete waste of space and never look back.

Rather than having no force feedbback, just modify the existing force feedback files. Rather than blank all force feedback files, modify/blank only the ones that have a problem. You see, actually try to solve the problem instead of throwing it away/ contributing nothing but snide remarks (starfighter/effete) I would rag on you both more, but this is Oleg's ready room.

This reminds me of the person who entered the thread about a problem with padlock, and told them to just play full real. Thanks for your non-contribution. Now go bye-byes.


<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 08/01/0307:59PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:16 AM
I have a punch.ffe file that I modified with the force edit program that RBJ refers to that I think is more believeable. (At least it's less irritating /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )And I have a bomb.ffe file that fixes the bomb & rocket after-effects too. After backing up your punch.ffe & bomb.ffe files just unzip into your "forcefeedback" directory.

Get them Here http://home1.gte.net/res0rrxk/files/forcefeedback.zip . let me know how they work.

Cheers.....Smokin256

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:20 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- starfighter1 wrote:
-- hi,
-- ..backup the ff files + throw out all files + test
-- with FF on..
--
-- ..+ recognice all main movement effects in general
-- ..
--
-- ..I call them 'sibirisch weather show-effects'
--
--
-- by the way to Your link: the infomrmation minister
-- were catched some weeks ago.. + believe me ..to get
-- more real informations by use of torture..strictly
-- is forbidden..
-
-
- Please use correct spelling and correct grammer.
- Nobody can tell what the hell it is you just said.
-
- "throw out all files + test with FF on.." This will
- cause the game to malfunction. You have to remove
- the contents of the files, not the file itself.
-
-
-
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)

F ck you *** hole

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg


"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:22 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- starfighter1 wrote:
-- hi,
-- OK ..step by step..only for our greate ace..
--
-- 1. backup the FF files
--
-- 2. unload all seven ffe/files ..(seven!.. RayBan,
-- You know
-- James Bond 007 ?)
--
--
-- ..play .. that's it
-
-
-
- How about people who have any problem just throw
- their CD away and never play the game?
-
- Same logic.
-
- Please, if you don't have anything constructive to
- say, just go to that other forum called a complete
- waste of space and never look back.
-
- Rather than having no force feedbback, just modify
- the existing force feedback files. Rather than
- blank all force feedback files, modify/blank only
- the ones that have a problem. You see, actually try
- to solve the problem instead of throwing it away/
- contributing nothing but snide remarks
- (starfighter/effete) I would rag on you both more,
- but this is Oleg's ready room.
-
- This reminds me of the person who entered the thread
- about a problem with padlock, and told them to just
- play full real. Thanks for your non-contribution.
- Now go bye-byes.
-
-

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Look who is talking

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:42 AM
Smokin, does your file lessen the bad weather effects/kicks? Is this what the "punch" file does? Exactly what would adding your files effect? Thanks in advance.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.



Message Edited on 08/02/0312:44AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 02:48 AM
Kyrule2 Wrote:
"Smokin, does your file lessen the bad weather
- effects/kicks?"

Yes & smooths it out some.

"Is this what the "punch" file does?"

If you look in your "forcefeedback" directory you'll find several files. punch.ffe, bomb.ffe, mortar.ffe machinegun.ffe & so on. punch.ffe is the one that's responsible for the turbulance effect. bomb.ffe is the one that's responsible for the effect you feel when dropping bombs or firing rockets.

"Exactly what would adding your files effect?"

Well it's not really that you're adding these files. You're just replacing the original ones with these. They effect only the turbulance & the bomb/rocket effect.

Cheers......Smokin256

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:32 AM
Thanks for the bomb file smokin256! Don't know what you did but the bug is now gone.

As for your punch file, it is too strong for me. I use a punch file that is just a gentle nudge.

Now, I have a bug similar to the bomb bug that I hope you can solve. Munitions that produce the mortar force feedback effect (example: P39 and Ju-87 G-1 cannons): Once used, their effects become transfered to the first press of every fire guns button (fire weapon 1) thereafter. Hopefully you can fix this bug too! Please see if you can fix the mortar file like you did the bomb file to fix this bug, thanks.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 08:22 AM
hi,
sorry ..some misunderstandings..

if You run the game with no ffe/files some of main movement
features as a basic to the FF effects can be realised...

for example: punch, shake ..turbulence at low altitude

conclusion: FF programmed files is one thing...general movement features of the plane in turbulence situation a problem of programmed FM
running the game with no ffe/files is just a test to get more information of such effects...

Hope You never come in such above situation in real life ..



RayBanJockey wrote:
-

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 08:33 AM
re.. to RayBanJockey..

..hope You know the differents between force feedback programmed files, all the issues in flightsims by using a FF stick

..and the main FM programming files in the game...

..in most of cases a FF stick is a illusion of flight feeling..

OK...that's a general discussion.. we talked about in another forum

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:29 AM
Smokin, thank you so much for these FF files, they're great. With your punch file, those turbulences feel absolutely credible to me. Still a strong effect which does affect the pilot's work on the stick, but this time it really feels like rough air badly bumping and shaking the control surfaces.

Great work!



Message Edited on 08/02/0308:30AM by AchimT

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 04:47 PM
Smokin256:

Thanks for the FFB-files! They work like a charm. I was always afraid that the turbulence (punch-effect) would ruin my stick, since it kicked with considerable force. Now it feels fine (even though I'd slow down the effect some if I knew how to...).

I agree with RBJ about the bomb-effect too, the bug is gone! Incredible.

Thank you! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 07:37 PM
Haha, we are indeed getting through to the RayBan*******. Even got an annoyed PM.

Thought I would let you all in on the good news. Now I'll get back on topic. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers,
Fred

No sig as of now, as people apparently can't handle reality without creating too much trouble for the poor mods.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 07:25 AM
Your welcome guys, glad they worked! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I've been away from home most of the day, went to the Evergreen flight museum today (Home of the Spuce Goose & now an SR-71 Blackbird) As well as a beautiful Bf-109 G10 among others, Very cool! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

RBJ wrote;
-"Now, I have a bug similar to the bomb bug that I
- hope you can solve. Munitions that produce the
- mortar force feedback effect (example: P39 and Ju-87
- G-1 cannons): Once used, their effects become
- transfered to the first press of every fire guns
- button (fire weapon 1) thereafter."

I'd forgotten about that one. What I've been doing is using a copy of my "punch.ffe" file renamed "mortar.ffe. It works pretty well for the P-39 because it uses another effect along with mortar which I haven't been able to identify. I hadn't noticed that the Ju-87 G1 had the same problem.

I've been experimenting this evening with effects for the Stuka & I settled on an effect very similar to the stock mortar file but without the after-effect.

I've uploaded a new zip file with a "P-39_mortar.ffe" file & a "Stuka_mortar.ffe. Just rename whichever one you want to use to "mortar.ffe". I also added a Slow_punch.ffe file for Ketalar that's slowed down by about half. Maybe too much? Same drill, just rename it punch.ffe & you should be good to go.

You can get forcefeedback2.zip here: http://home1.gte.net/res0rrxk/files/forcefeedback2.zip

Cheers.......Smokin256

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 07:45 AM
Thank you, Smokin!

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:50 AM
S! Smokin256.

I would like to try your fixed files but the links do not seem to be working...have they changed or something?
Could you repost them pls.

TIA

Warrior




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<hr>

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 09:44 PM
No457Warrior wrote:
No457_Warrior wrote:
- "S! Smokin256.
-
- I would like to try your fixed files but the links
- do not seem to be working...have they changed or
- something?
- Could you repost them pls.
-
- TIA
-
- Warrior"

I don't know Warrior. I just downloaded them here at work & they worked ok. Maybe my isp had a server problem earlier. Try again. Maybe right click & "save target as" this time. You only need forcefeedback2.zip. It contains all the files. Good luck!

Cheers......Smokin256

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 12:32 PM
S! Smokin'

Still no good for me! Just get a "can't establish a connection to server" message???
Is the file very large? Would it be possible to email it to me. I so, my email is no457warrior@dodo.com.au

thanks again

Warrior



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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 03:15 PM
It's in the mail! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers......Smokin256

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:21 PM
S! Smokin.

Got it....thanks/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
They work really good.

Warrior

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 04:37 AM
Hey thanks Smoke, those are actually pretty damn useful. Hated that low alt knock.

cheers




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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 09:33 AM
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/IL2/files/essentials/iso-8859-1QBlade's_Force_Feedback_Effects_for_IL-2.zip

These were for the original IL-2. Any difference?

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 04:18 PM
I seem to have problems with the link too!

I'm on a 56k in Thailand.......... any chance of E-mailing it to me too?

fred_blandford@hotmail.com

'loon'

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 05:29 AM
On the way! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers......Smokin256