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View Full Version : Why is the Ki-84 held in such low regard?



Doug_Thompson
05-08-2005, 12:49 AM
Just curious, having seen several posts in which people prefer the Tony.

LEBillfish
05-08-2005, 01:01 AM
It's not, it just took on a stigma as being "uber" a while back....Now I believe simply a sour grapes thing with those that fly allied.

For myself I simply do not care for the late war planes....Mid to early my preferance as times were changing...No longer was it turn and burn with zoom and boom mixed.......As folks had learned speed, power, and quick single pass attacks was what really was getting kills so designs changed to accomodate that.

Zoom and boom....Knock out punches in a second...Don't get me wrong, that's smart, the way to go.....Otherwise the Dr1 would be king. But I like it where you have to struggle to turn, to get and stay on an opponents 6...and where skill and tactics rulled the day, just not seeing them first.

So for many late war planes start to detract from the "Dogfighting" skills that were required. So 43 and before simply more fun for many.

EnGaurde
05-08-2005, 02:25 AM
its a pet hate of mine.

its as if nothing other than the Big Three: P51, F4U and P47 can be effective, dangerous aircraft.

many times have i laughed out loud at fools who have written me off for flying the Ki84, when a quick check on the player list revealed all manner of F4U, Spits and Mustangs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

If anything japanese is dangerous, this childish 8 yr old mindset name calling appears. To many, japanese aircraft are meant to be slow, meant to be unarmoured and meant to be easy to get away from. Seeing the Ki84 is as close to western ideas of fighter aircraft as can be, this can upset many.

I believe its due to one major thing: immaturity. Im sure if older players, as in 20s up, were in this sim alone, it would be accepted as the valid aircraft it is. Instead the very young players, fancying themselves as something of online experts and really going for this notion of its not fair unless im winning, instantly deride the Ki84 with this "n00b" label despite flying something even more superior, the p51 or e.g.

The japanese apparently werent meant to have fast tougher aircraft, and the schoolchild community has christened it "uber" despite being generally slightly inferior to all the big named allied airraft if you look really closely.

i ignore them, frankly. And i laugh heartily at them when i see the usual prejudice come spewing forth.

Ignorance is rife, they prove. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I fly the Ki84 as a rule whenever its on a map.

And i derive great, great joy at jamming that plane up the **** of anyone on the map that would complain about it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Dengue.ZA
05-08-2005, 02:53 AM
I fly the Ki84 as a rule whenever its on a map.

Me too. According to the game, the Ki-84 was the best all-round fighter of the war. Its easy to fly, doesn't require a great deal of finesse, and has big, big guns.

I'm happy to take advantage of that.

Finkeren
05-08-2005, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
For myself I simply do not care for the late war planes....Mid to early my preferance as times were changing...No longer was it turn and burn with zoom and boom mixed.......As folks had learned speed, power, and quick single pass attacks was what really was getting kills so designs changed to accomodate that.


Soooooo Amen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

ruf9ii
05-08-2005, 04:50 AM
i think people think its overrated because they get owned quicker flying against them than anything else, where as if they were flying against something else they would have just taken longer to die http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

the ki84 has been banned in my squad because of its 'l33tness' and i think this is unfortunate because on the other hand the spit mk9e is allowed (if not favoured). in my opinion, (and ive pointed this out many a time) the spit 9 is a far superious fighter than the ki84. the only area lacking is in fire power, but not by much in any case.

EnGaurde
05-08-2005, 04:59 AM
the spit 9 is a far superious fighter than the ki84

spot on.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

the Ki84 is actually nothing special, if you fly late war allied regularly.

it can handle allied aircraft better than any other japanese plane.

That, is its crime.

stansdds
05-08-2005, 05:37 AM
The real Ki-84's were a pretty even match with late war Allied aircraft, so in the hands of a skilled pilot it could be a deadly adversary.

Aero_Shodanjo
05-08-2005, 05:56 AM
I just love controversional planes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Uberplane in what department esp compared to - say - a Mustang?

Speed? its max speed in game is only around 640 kph. The Mustang has 700+kph.

Altitude? Cant take it more than 6000m without a serious performance loss. A P-51 is a king at and above 6000m

Range? Oh c'mon now... Is that matter in this sim?

Armament? The 1A has 2x12,7mm + 2x20mm. 1B version has 4x20mm. "A few" 1C has 2x20mm + 2x30mm. All vs 6x12,7mm (that is .5 in) the Mustang has. It's a kind of "Big Gun envy" syndrome, or so it seems, that made the Hayate gets so much bad recognitions...

Now if only we'll get a Shoki with 2x12,7mm + 2x40mm version or 2x20mm + 2x37mm version...

Heck, even its paint was considered inferior. But that makes skinning it a far more artistic experience for me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/Aero_Shodanjo/Test4008.jpg

Skin will be available to download soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EnGaurde
05-08-2005, 06:00 AM
Uberplane in what department esp compared to - say - a Mustang

could it be.....

no.....

surely....

you can think....

for...

yourself???

you're able to do your own research...?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Aero_Shodanjo
05-08-2005, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by EnGaurde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Uberplane in what department esp compared to - say - a Mustang

could it be.....

no.....

surely....

you can think....

for...

yourself???

you're able to do your own research...?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol. The bottomline is dont blame the Hayate for having bigger guns than most allied planes. Blame the allied aircraft manufacturers instead http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

EnGaurde
05-08-2005, 06:20 AM
Heck, even its paint was considered inferior

A more beautiful thing ive never beheld....

Te_Vigo
05-08-2005, 07:30 AM
Shame about the squad banning your Ki-84 there m8y.
Maybe you could talk your squad into doing B29 runs?

Personally, if they were modelled with all the inherent maintenace faults they developed after being stationed in the Phillipines, I could go for them.
They were a devasting machine and the Ki-100 was meant to be able to fly rings around it.
But when the highly specialised maintenance that was required wasn't available and hence, no pilot knew how their plane was going to perform and with the landing gear that wasn't tempered as called for in the design specs, quite often shearing off at landing and the brakes more than likely not working, if the landing gear survived........................

Spits can handle them, so can Yaks

ElAurens
05-08-2005, 08:33 AM
Most of the animosity towards the Ki 84 comes from Allied Naval fliers who expect a cakewalk like the history books say it was. Not taking into account that we sim pilotos have far more "seat time" than any IJAAF pilot had late in the war.

And they are also jealous that in reality the IJAAF war really destroyed by US Army Air Corps pilots in the skys above New Guinea, not by sissy Mary blue planes in infrequent carrier engagements.

VW-IceFire
05-08-2005, 08:48 AM
I'm not sure if the problems were ever solved, but there were some legitimate complaints about the Ki-84 and its high altitude modeling which, as I recall, continued to get better the higher it went. It even surpassed the P-47 and Ta-152H at one point apparently for level speed at 13,000 meters. Thats flat wrong as the Ki-84 was never a good high altitude aircraft...

That said, I think those problems have been solved and its a very good but very average aircraft. It turns exceptionally well, the armament is pretty good, and it does most things quite well. How the Ki-84 is banned and the Bf109G-2, Yak-3 or the Spitfire IX aren't is totally beyond me as all of those represent similarly performing or similarly favored aircraft.

The Ki-84's weaknesses, ones that can be exploited by Allied fighters of the same time period, involve its vulnerable fuel tanks on the leading edge of the wings which will light on fire if hit hard enough. Past that, the Ki-84 is relatively tough...much like a Mustang - but it suffers quite a bit in performance and handling when it does get hit. Its roll, turn, and elevator are all quite good and its overall an excellent fighter to be in.

I am in favor of removing the Ki-84c from most scenarios (except in certain historic conditions) as its uncertain how many of the 84c actually flew in combat and even then, they had a limited capacity of bomber interception. Their armament and performance make them somewhat of an easy plane to fly and get kills in.

Loki-PF
05-08-2005, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by EnGaurde:
its a pet hate of mine.

its as if nothing other than the Big Three: P51, F4U and P47 can be effective, dangerous aircraft.

many times have i laughed out loud at fools who have written me off for flying the Ki84, when a quick check on the player list revealed all manner of F4U, Spits and Mustangs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

If anything japanese is dangerous, this childish 8 yr old mindset name calling appears. To many, japanese aircraft are meant to be slow, meant to be unarmoured and meant to be easy to get away from. Seeing the Ki84 is as close to western ideas of fighter aircraft as can be, this can upset many.

I believe its due to one major thing: immaturity. Im sure if older players, as in 20s up, were in this sim alone, it would be accepted as the valid aircraft it is. Instead the very young players, fancying themselves as something of online experts and really going for this notion of its not fair unless im winning, instantly deride the Ki84 with this "n00b" label despite flying something even more superior, the p51 or e.g.

The japanese apparently werent meant to have fast tougher aircraft, and the schoolchild community has christened it "uber" despite being generally slightly inferior to all the big named allied airraft if you look really closely.

i ignore them, frankly. And i laugh heartily at them when i see the usual prejudice come spewing forth.

Ignorance is rife, they prove. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I fly the Ki84 as a rule whenever its on a map.

And i derive great, great joy at jamming that plane up the **** of anyone on the map that would complain about it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Frankly on the servers I fly on I haven't heard alot of whining about the 84.

But there are alot of dedicated Axis flyers that seen to have a really big chip on thier shoulders regarding it.

As far as maturity goes I don't count anyone who states loudly

"I fly the Ki84 as a rule whenever its on a map" as mature. Even less mature would be something like

"And i derive great, great joy at jamming that plane up the **** of anyone on the map that would complain about it." (Chest thumping optional)

The real "mature" players are the ones that pop into a server with thier mates and squaddies and check out the balance and then try to even out the teams regardless of which side that puts them on.

This has me flying for the axis more than the allied side, but not because I've got something to prove, but rather because I like teams that are more balanced.

But if you've *GOT* to fly a certain aircraft in order to prove something... well thats your deal, but I certainly don't consider it "mature", in fact I'd rate that right up there on the immaturity scale with people decrying the 84's n00bishness

PS Aero_Shodanjo: Thats a beautifull skin and I'd be proud to wear it when flying axis on co-ops! Please let us know when it's available!

Doug_Thompson
05-08-2005, 10:16 AM
Wow. Many thorough replies here. Thanks, everyone.

The JAAF concentrated a lot on Ki-84 production late in the war. It was a major type in the end. It was greatly outnumbered and prone to breakdown, yes, but any late-war allied pilot who encountered somebody willing and able to offer him a fight was likely to face somebody flying a Frank that was running that day.

Therefore, I have to say that banning the Ki-84 is very unrealistic. That would be very similar to banning the Mustang in late-war Europe.

VMF-214_HaVoK
05-08-2005, 10:23 AM
Most have the problem with the Ki-84C variant. The same goes for the F4U-1C. You will rarely see either of them in a historic server.

3.JG51_BigBear
05-08-2005, 10:51 AM
Therefore, I have to say that banning the Ki-84 is very unrealistic. That would be very similar to banning the Mustang in late-war Europe.

That might be a little extreme. The Japanese were not mounting any where near as many sorties with ki-84s as the Americans and British were with P-51s over Europe. A lot of the Ki-84 production was held back in the second airforce the Japanese were storing in caves for the final defense of the island. Still whereas there were only 650-700 FW190D9s produced, there were about 3400 of the ki84a models alone. I don't fly the plane myself but I think its a legitimate late war aircraft.

Blackdog5555
05-08-2005, 11:20 AM
I agree with HaVak. It is just as he says, plus the first 84s, pre patch were "overmodeled." I could do a 360 roll in a fully loaded 84 in 1.7 seconds, pre patch. They pretty mutch fly within specs now.

///But really, it has to do with standards of chivalry too. It's not "cricket" or marcus of queensbury to fly with multiple 30mm cannons in a gun fight. No honor in bringing out a bazooka in a knife fight thing. But do what you want. dogfight servers are just make believe anyway.

///hey Engaurde..I think you need to "up" you meds. Jeesh, bro.

extemely bored BD.

VFA-195 Snacky
05-08-2005, 03:39 PM
I think some don't like the KI84 because the plane allows an otherwise below average skilled online pilot to do well against other skilled pilots in harder to fly aircraft. I feel the same way about the Spitfire in servers where you see entire squads flying Clipped Spits and nothing else because they know in any other plane they would be pounded.

If this is the case then I like to even things out by choosing the same plane. You don't appreciate how easy the Spit and Ki84 folks have it until you fly a P38 for months and hop into one of these UFOs for a few minutes. It's also satisfying when you take on these UFOs in aircraft that are hard to fly and win. Makes it that much sweeter.

Just my opinion of course

Gunner_361st
05-08-2005, 04:43 PM
Different people have different reasons for disliking particular aircraft.

In my experience, it would seem the aircraft that have the best performance in IL-2 in speed, turn rate, responsiveness, and firepower while still being very simple and easy to fly, are the ones that are generally despised because of that.

Early and mid-war aircraft seem to appeal more to older segments of the online community because the performance of these earlier aircraft do not allow for mistakes which could otherwise be escaped from in late-war, high performance planes.

But again, different people have different reasons. I'll personally take a Zero over a Hayate any day, myself.

361st TeaWagon - AKA 361st Gunner

EnGaurde
05-08-2005, 05:08 PM
hmm yes well perhaps i did get a tad carried away earlier.

its only due to this infuriating idea of balance... reality has nothing to do with balance.

the japanese sorely need very high performance aircraft, and its just ridiculous to complain about japanese hi per planes when russian, american and british types go untouched.

mortoma
05-08-2005, 08:26 PM
One weird thing about the Ki-84 is that for a plane with such a decent top speed, the landing speed is super low. The last time I tried to fly this bird, I came in over the threshold of the runway at about 190KPH, a similar speed as I would most other fast planes. But it was way too fast for the KI!! I ended up floating over the runway for quite a while and had to fight off balooning it. I had not ever landed it before I don't think. Learned quck that you have to really slow this kite down for a landing. Strange for a medium fast aircraft and quite a contrast to other similar planes. I was very suprised to say the least......

AVG_WarHawk
05-08-2005, 10:05 PM
I like the big Guns!

http://tinypic.com/51capj

VW-IceFire
05-08-2005, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Most have the problem with the Ki-84C variant. The same goes for the F4U-1C. You will rarely see either of them in a historic server.
At least the 200 F4U-1C's had a combat record that is well established. I know what you mean and I am firmly against the 84c in the average dogfight setup...but the F4U-1C I have less of a problem with. Probably has to do with the fact that the Corsair takes a bit more to fly.

IL2-chuter
05-09-2005, 01:53 AM
The test pilots (combined services) at Freeman Field, Indiana used the Frank there for just about . . . everything - it was their favorite hack - because it was very hi-performing, easy to fly and maintain (providing you have tools and parts), and reliable. The aircraft was carefully selected in the field and well mantained, maybe factors not attributable to the majority of Franks in Japanese service.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I'm happy to have been able to contribute.

Oh, along with Frank C's you MIGHT add La7 3xcannon(very few made), 190A9 (very few made, and heavy)w/108's (few 108's installed in wings of 190's), and 109's w/108 gunpods (no 108 gunpods known other than test). (Just what I've read, I might be wrong - but if I am, it's not me, it's the references. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif)

Aero_Shodanjo
05-09-2005, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by IL2-chuter:

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I'm happy to have been able to contribute.



Do you mean you got your hand on one of the surviving Frank, actually? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

CreaseKeeper
05-09-2005, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
I think some don't like the KI84 because the plane allows an otherwise below average skilled online pilot to do well against other skilled pilots in harder to fly aircraft. I feel the same way about the Spitfire in servers where you see entire squads flying Clipped Spits and nothing else because they know in any other plane they would be pounded.

If this is the case then I like to even things out by choosing the same plane. You don't appreciate how easy the Spit and Ki84 folks have it until you fly a P38 for months and hop into one of these UFOs for a few minutes. It's also satisfying when you take on these UFOs in aircraft that are hard to fly and win. Makes it that much sweeter.

Just my opinion of course



Bingo, you hit the nail right on the head...

-S-

reverendkrv1972
05-09-2005, 04:13 AM
indeed Snacky did,been watching this thread waiting for that to be written http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

also the 'i like big guns' ...them big guns dont point backwards...OOPS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

where have you been Creasey?not been shot down by you for a while...

Regards,

Rev

ElAurens
05-09-2005, 05:26 AM
The fact that both the Ki84 and Spitfire are easy to fly are credits to their respective design teams. This is what all combat aircraft designers strive for. Lower pilot work loads and high performance levels equal better combat performance. For both the pilot and the aircraft.

You don't honestly think that any real world aircraft designer would purposely set out to make a combat aircraft hard to fly do you?

This is starting to sound like another "Harder = Better" thread started by some erstwhile Luftwaffe and USN pilots that got owned online. Well here is some news for you. Harder is not better, it is just harder.

And just so you know, I typically fly the Ki61 or P40 when they are available.

Jex_TG
05-09-2005, 06:46 AM
Isn't the point of this game to allow you to fly all of these planes? As for the realism junkies, you lot crack me up. What part of realism has magic planes spawning in on some magical part of the world for some airquake combat (reminds me of those iron eagle films).

If your re-enacting historical engagements then the server will limit the planes to that era - if you're in a DF server then don't complain about who fly's what and if you don't like it, leave and join a server that does limit planes so you can play your P51's against sopwith camels.

The funny thing is that these people who do complain about "uber" planes are usually flying uber planes themselves. You'll find they'll fly the best of what's to offer for "their" side, and then ***** about people who choose a good plane from the "other" side lol.

ZG77_Nagual
05-09-2005, 08:08 AM
If you take a 190 and remove everything that makes it a challenge to fly - you've got a ki84. Excellent control harmony, roll rate, turn, speed, dive and climb and visibility too!
I generally ban the one with the big guns - in fact I generally prefer '43 scenarios. But there is no denying it's a splendid plane. Alot of it's rep comes from it being a fav mount of the doofi - who are often rude. Inexperienced pilots in the ki84 turn too much and are not a problem if you fly a disciplined tactical regime. (other than when they stand the one with the big guns on it's tail and spray the air when you're a Kilometer above them)

I flew one great ki84 dogfight against a guy who was so good in it I was finding it very difficult to beat him in a p38. It was an excellent flight and by the end our respective planes were nearly unmanageable.

Still waiting for that J2m cockpit though.

geetarman
05-09-2005, 09:59 AM
KI-84? Great plane, sometimes flown poorly. Easy target for a diving Mustang if flown poorly. Maybe because of it's attributes, I have come across a greater number of 84 pilots that don't check six regularly.

VMF-214_HaVoK
05-09-2005, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Most have the problem with the Ki-84C variant. The same goes for the F4U-1C. You will rarely see either of them in a historic server.
At least the 200 F4U-1C's had a combat record that is well established. I know what you mean and I am firmly against the 84c in the average dogfight setup...but the F4U-1C I have less of a problem with. Probably has to do with the fact that the Corsair takes a bit more to fly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I agree. If you noticed, the Ki84C was in more servers until the F4U1C arrived. It seems most axis flyers did not care for the US having a very powerfull ammo load. Funny thing is that it was fine for us US flyers to put up with Mark108s all this time.

But I still prefer not to see them in the servers I fly in only because that is all everyone will be flying. And it quickly becomes airquake and mission objectives fall by the wayside.

Schmouddle-WT
05-09-2005, 11:31 AM
Regarding Ki84 -

We have been struggling with this plane on our Okinawa mission at WT_Dedicated.

Somehow we realized, on Okinawa the time to overheat for P&W engines of Navy birds is FAR MORE quickier than for the Ki84. The P&W just stays hot, no matter how you fiddle with cowl flaps, 80/80 setting is what keeps it relatively cold. Water Injection? Better not to use it at all. Close cowl? Not a good idea anyway? Running 100/100 (without boost)? You got "overheat" within 5 min.

The Ki84's engine is the opposite, you can run it on high pitch setting, with MW50 (or japanese couterpart of it) and when it gets too warm, just ease a little bit on the throttle and here you go again, cold as being inside a fridge.

Of course when dealing with overheating youre not gonna run, you not gonna climb, youre just sitting duck there whioch makes some folks rather dissapointed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Somehow this is seems to be obvious on Okinawa map - had anybody tried to compare the overheat time on Okinawa to the one at on "standartized" Crimea?

When there was Ki84 broadly available, almost everybody sat in the plane. They just arrived to the fleet (with AAA toned down becuse of lag prevention) and vulched everybody there back into stone age.
That is not a way to do it, right?

Somehow our blue section is a litle bit louder then the red one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and I cannot just put the Ki84 out.
Now there are Ki84b's in limited numbers (thanks to Gennadich SC) and the same with F4U-1C to everybody's content (or may I say happiness)

Please note this is not meant to be a "whine", this is my point on the case.

I really do not want to take poor Japanese their Hayates away(no matter how crappy they might have been in reality, opposite to prototype figures we have in the sim).

I just want to have the same principles of physics (or better say FM) applied to all planes
around here.

p1ngu666
05-09-2005, 09:03 PM
main problem is with the C, its just not sporting tbh.
otherwise its ok, bit too titchy for me, but its not like the IJA and IJN have a decent late war fighter otherwise
zeros 21,3,5,5a,5b are ok, rest are useless for me atleast
ki61 is ok, but not really remarkable, its like a slug http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
ki43 is fun but with limited guns and sight...

the other problem is has its not german, or american, so it CANT be a good plane can it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

EnGaurde
05-09-2005, 11:09 PM
its quite interesting.

that, being gunnery and the apparent ease of kills.

i flew a corsair a while back on one map when the balance was out of whack.

im used to ultra close, highly maneouverable single blip cannon shots, not one round missing if i can help it. You just cant with a handful of 20mm rounds to spend a la IJN / A.

but the ammo loadout on the f4u.... point, close to nyaaaah thats about far enough, commence firing.

keep firing.

chase plane around sky shooting holes in anything and everything, usually including the target.

eventually get two or three hits and reduce plane to a fireball.

finger off trigger.

fly off.

its just amazing. So much ammo, four, five mebbe more kills per sortie is simple flying US Navy or associated fighters. ( I wont mention the Jug...) Try that with any japanese cannon equipped fighter and youd be lucky to even hit, and be forced to juice up again after mebbe one kill?

flying performance is one thing, but gun platforms are quite another. Nothing is simpler to do than aim and shoot with allied aircraft. The japanese opponents jump around just enough to ruin your fine aim. Where your f4u has enough ammo to hose you from the sky with a sheer weight of lead, the japanese gunner has to literally inject his shells point blank.

what you should be fearing, is the 6 fifty equipped hayate... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Easier to fly, and stupidly easier to shoot.

everyone thinks the Ki84 is so spectacular, someone earlier reckons its a UFO comp to the later p38...??? Well, obviously the guys ive tried to chase down werent playing by the rules. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

play one repeatedly against determined opposition, remember what made it difficult to fly and then come tell me its UFO status. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Doug_Thompson
05-09-2005, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by geetarman:
... Maybe because of it's attributes, I have come across a greater number of 84 pilots that don't check six regularly.

Hmmm.

I wonder. When on-line, can you tell if the other guy is flying with a "no cockpit" view?

The Ki-84 handles easily and recovers from stalls very well. A rote beginner could fly it without a turn and bank indicator.

I don't know about the Spit', etc., but that may explain why they don't check six. They may be thinking that big arrow is pointing to something beneath them.

Doug_Thompson
05-10-2005, 07:44 AM
LEBillfish
In Re: Big Guns.

How many rounds does it carry, though?

LEBillfish
05-10-2005, 08:12 AM
I have no idea, you'd have to ask Warhawk as it was his post.....But I'm just betting he'll know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

jeroen_R90S
05-10-2005, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Aero_Shodanjo:
Skin will be available to download soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

When????? I love it already!

Jeroen

Aero_Shodanjo
05-10-2005, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by jeroen_R90S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aero_Shodanjo:
Skin will be available to download soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

When????? I love it already!

Jeroen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two weeks? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif lol...

Seriously, as you might've guessed, Im waiting for Il2skins.com to get back online. I'll wait for another 7 days (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and if it still off, I'll upload the skins somewhere else.

LEBillfish
05-10-2005, 09:46 AM
<span class="ev_code_PINK">AVG-Warhawk, I don't want to pry in your personal business, but have anymore pics of your "friends" you'd care to share?</span>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

AVG_WarHawk
05-10-2005, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<span class="ev_code_PINK">AVG-Warhawk, I don't want to pry in your personal business, but have anymore pics of your "friends" you'd care to share?</span>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

You'll have to see original post, say hi to Bruce for me! I got more if you wish?

antonio_f
05-10-2005, 11:23 AM
I don't understand people and all this "UBER" online garbage. It's like in Call of Duty they would ban the StG 44 because it's an "uber" gun. Banning a plane is STUPID!

Yeah, give 'em whatever they want. Let them fly an F-16 against my P-40B, or F2A! I wouldn't care. I'd be all to proud to say I shot one down. And if you can't shoot down a "noob" flying a Ki-84 in your Mustang, you better re-think your skills and get more practice!

I'm not saying it's easy but in the age old wisdom of dogfighting, the better pilot should ALWAYS win, no matter what he's flying.

Erich Hartmann - 352 kills - 6 Mustangs - he flew 109s.

LEBillfish
05-10-2005, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by AVG_WarHawk:

You'll have to see original post, say hi to Bruce for me! I got more if you wish?

Well, lets call this a mistake on your part, lets find out why.....Go ape, post um all, rather pathetic you'd download them anywho, but I suppose boys need their jollies.

IP's are a wonderful thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

tigertalon
05-10-2005, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by antonio_f:
the better pilot should ALWAYS win, no matter what he's flying.


While I agree with most of your post, I have to object here. If you take two really experienced pilots (both flying a few hours averagely per day, since the days Il2 was released - yes you can find such), and put one in a hurricane MkI and the other in La7 or Fw190, and after 50 matchups switch the pilots for another 50, Hurri WILL go down in flames in 99/100 cases.

As pilots experience gets higher and higher, plane becomes more and more important.

I repeat again, I agree with most of your post, good read.



Erich Hartmann - 352 kills - 6 Mustangs - he flew 109s.

Check out also this guys:

Josef "Pipps" Priller (http://www.luftwaffe.cz/priller.html) - 101 kills including 68 spitfires http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Josef "Sepp" Wurmheller (http://www.luftwaffe.cz/wurmheller.html) out of his 102 victories 56 were spitfires, including 6 in one day - 19.08.1942

Wilhelm Steinmann (http://www.luftwaffe.cz/steinmann.html) 44 kills, including 11 mustangs

AVG_WarHawk
05-10-2005, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AVG_WarHawk:

You'll have to see original post, say hi to Bruce for me! I got more if you wish?

Well, lets call this a mistake on your part, lets find out why.....Go ape, post um all, rather pathetic you'd download them anywho, but I suppose boys need their jollies.

IP's are a wonderful thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you did ask.......

BigKahuna_GS
05-10-2005, 04:03 PM
S!

I agree with IceFire, Havoc and BD. There was some F/M isues with the plane and I still here complaints about high speed roll rates being 190ish and dive speeds closing in on the P47. I like seeing the Ki84 in PTO servers--means good competition.

I have seen PTO servers with the Ki84 1a & 1B vs various allied aircraft including the F4U-1C. Dont know why the F4U-1C would be banned as all it has is 20mm cannon like the Ki84a/b where as the Ki84C has the 30mm cannon.

Anyways bring it on Ki84 ---I take you on in my Corsair http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just wish the F4U-4 and P47N were in the PTO also.

__

HotelBushranger
05-11-2005, 02:25 AM
Now I'm starting to have a problem with 84's. Last night on a df server, there was me (cr42) and a mate in his biplane dueling, some la's/lagg's, a spit, and 2 or 3 Ki-84's. And these people flew them the entire time. Not once in the hour I was on did they choose another aircraft, whilst others had gone through half the planeset. And the there's the problem of Salutes. Nothing ticks me off more than when your'e in a lovely dogfight with a good pilot, when you hear the booming, sucking sounds of the Ki's 30mm's, and half a second later you are obliterated. Aand, then, the person posts a whole hearted .~!S!~. My thought: Wtf. Like it takes a whole load of skill and cunning to boom up some persons **** and unload half a countries ammo stores into him, and then think it's worthy of a salute. Jeez. You want my Salute, fly a plane which has any disadvantage-weak armament, slow, bad manouverability, etc.


It's also satisfying when you take on these UFOs in aircraft that are hard to fly and win. Makes it that much sweeter.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. I shot down 3 planes in one flight, including a Ki-84, in my humble Cr 42 last night http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Had to change my pants from the amount of piss in it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jex_TG
05-11-2005, 05:42 AM
So are you saying that people who fly 84's don't deserve to shoot you down?

HotelBushranger
05-11-2005, 05:56 AM
No, however it gets tedious and boring to the other players who have to verse Ki-84's aroudn the clock. Doesn't anybody know what variety is?

EnGaurde
05-11-2005, 06:40 AM
No, however it gets tedious and boring to the other players who have to verse Ki-84's aroudn the clock. Doesn't anybody know what variety is?

as ACCEPTED as it is to face all manner of F4U?

I fly japanese aircraft as much as i can.

except when map balance forbids.

check my stats on ZvW for proof.

my single question is.... why do allied flyers always have problems with Japanese aircraft online but, largely, japanese flyers NEVER complain about allied aircraft?

is this a perception problem?

is their a gross, gross exploitation of allied capability towards japanese capability not found in the (BETTER DEFENDED) axis ranks?

japanese aircraft are never free to explore their inherit capabilities....

Badsight.
05-11-2005, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I'm not sure if the problems were ever solved, but there were some legitimate complaints about the Ki-84 and its high altitude modeling which, as I recall, continued to get better the higher it went. It even surpassed the P-47