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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:13 AM
Doesn't it sort of defeat the purpose? I mean I give already. I can't see jack peedoodle without icons. At all. But when I do latch on to someone I cringe at the thought that they have a magic arrow to me.

Strange stuff to me really. I guess either my monitor has just been made obsolete or my eyeballs have.

Shame really as the in the pit sort of thing is usually right up my alley.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:13 AM
Doesn't it sort of defeat the purpose? I mean I give already. I can't see jack peedoodle without icons. At all. But when I do latch on to someone I cringe at the thought that they have a magic arrow to me.

Strange stuff to me really. I guess either my monitor has just been made obsolete or my eyeballs have.

Shame really as the in the pit sort of thing is usually right up my alley.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:31 AM
Cause it's more real without icon and padlock. There's a different style of onliners. Some prefer full real, some wanted no cockpit always on, some just want to play for fun.

As for myself, i prefer no icon and no padlock. Use your eyes to identify it's enemy or friendly.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:47 AM
Yeah I guess so.

I prefer no padlock and icons on. All in the pit sort of thing.

Map and mini bar on too. As it should be easy to read yer height and what not and without doing an equasion or wondering about a life or death breifing that you never really got as to where you are and what the target is,



Anyways no icon isn't more real imo. It's no where near what I can see in real life. Dumping padlock- which I dont use even if its there- on top of it is just silly imo.

But hey what do I know?

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:06 AM
I don't think it's more real without padlock, not for these who don't have TrackIR. It's impossible to keep sight of the target with the hat switch, and taking into account the fact that RL pilots could easily follow their target and I can't (don't have the dosh for TrackIR) I think padlock is somewhat an equalizer between these with TrackIR and these without.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:13 AM
He said:

"Cause it's more real without icon"

Well, you can identify planes at a much farther distance in real life (even if your computer is on the highest resolution setting) than you can in this game. Unrealistic.

A flying label next to the planes is unrealistic as well, but at least it allows you to ID the planes at a realistic distance.


Saying that one way is more realistic than the other is debatable.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:24 AM
Cause it's more real without icon (yes) and padlock (no, very real to look with his fingers) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:50 AM
Icons are prolly the biggest immerion killer i know. Those big red or blue Markings above a plane just loog sooooooooooo arcadish...no fun.

Padlock i need though. I just can´t follow planes. I regualry even loose planes straight before me level. Not to talk about my inability to use throttle, communications, prop pitch, flaps or anything else while using the keypad to follow a bad guy.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:53 AM
Ive tryed it with and without padlock, padlock to me seems like a way to follow with your eyes an adversary as you would if you were in a real plane, not sitting in front of a monitor, its so restrictive, but a magic arrow? I dont know about that, you still have to out manouver the other guy, and without Track IR and no padlock, youd have to push a mouse around while in a knife fight (without flash joysticks)which to me is even less realistic, each to there own but compared to other sims the padlock feature in this sim is well done in my eyes...

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:08 AM
When I play for fun, I don't mind about padlock, iconds or external view..

But mostly I enjoy the most playing VOW or VEF, with Full real.. if VOW would enable padlock it would change the hole atmosphere of the game.. padlock is crap, you can't loose the fighter you are following, because the padlock follows it through clouds, and under your plane where you cannot see IRL..

You just need some practise using the mouse or the hat.. I don't have Track-IR but I use keypad (believe it or not) to watch around the plane.. though If i had a bigger table, ofcourse I would use my mouse to look around in the cockpit..

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:34 AM
Vipez- wrote:
- padlock is
- crap, you can't loose the fighter you are following,
- because the padlock follows it through clouds, and
- under your plane where you cannot see IRL..

It only does that for a few seconds before it breaks off.

Padlock is pretty good.

Also range only icons.

Padlock and range-only icons are the best settings, but padlock and no icons is good too. Full real is the worst settings. It's about as good as easy settings (the best settings are somewhere in between of course)

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:41 AM
Lt.Davis wrote:
- Cause it's more real without icon and padlock.
- There's a different style of onliners. Some prefer
- full real, some wanted no cockpit always on, some
- just want to play for fun.
-
- As for myself, i prefer no icon and no padlock. Use
- your eyes to identify it's enemy or friendly.
-
- Lt.Davis
-
- <img
- src="http://www.angelfire.com/hero/apvg/tigerlogo0
- 1.jpg">
-
-
- **Speed is the KEY**

It is not more 'realistic' in any form of fashion. There is no such thing as 'full real' its best description is hardest difficulty.

And face it, its mostly disabled by groups that have TrackIR so they can have easier prey and therefore boost their pompus egos.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 02:30 PM
padlocks lame it locks a plane you done see with your eyes close to the ground always will be lame to me.

Its the hosts game and they choose what ever they want. Every now and then i go in to some pl its still fun but i still sky scan and lock people before i can see them. full visabilty too 1152x864x32

Still fun and you can always choose not to go in them.

Btw you notice padlock dependent people in non padlock games really struggle http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 03:21 PM
I never use padlock and prefer servers where it is turned off.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 03:44 PM
You definately need both. Until computers will have the same resolution as the Mk 1 eyeball, it will be needed. I host servers and allow only icons and padlock. I once played on a server that did not allow icons and shot down my own mate cause I could not identify him. In real life, you could usually identify an aircraft at 2km, in the game about 400m. As for padlock, i think you need that as well. Alot of guys use track IR or have joysticks with multiple hat switches. They would have an easier time to track a bogey than someone like me with a 1 hat switch joystick. Padlock is OK and does have its limitations.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 04:09 PM
No icons arent realistic.Everybody tries to get as close to the ground so they can see a plane in the sky above.Fights hardly ever exceed 1000m alt except for when doing a zoom.

Icons are obviously not realistic either in appearance,but at least it encourages people to get some altitude in the 2000-4000m range which is more representative of the fact that real fighters diddnt like fighting on the deck.For obvious reasons.

Different kinds of icons that are less gaudy would be better.Those long names and plane type and range icons are unnecessary.A simple small colored symbol that dosnt blend into the environment would be good enough to make up for the restrictions of the monitor and the game in general, that were not present in real life.

As far as I'm concerned the only thing realistic about no icons is the high possibility that you will fly around without making contact with the enemy.Oh what FUN!

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 04:14 PM
At least in il2, not sure how it stands now, when icons were turned off you could padlock friendlies and enemies, so you would still have to tell who was who. Also the original poster mentions 'magic arrows'...sounds like hes talking about no cockpit...not padlock.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:04 PM
The ideal icon settings would be to display friendly only. This would compensate for the limitations of vision in the sim by allowing a rough ID of friend or foe, take into account radio communication between friendlies, but still force you to spot your foes the old-fashioned way.

Unfortunately, I do not believe this is possible in Il-2 FB.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:14 PM
A.K.Davis wrote:
- The ideal icon settings would be to display friendly
- only. This would compensate for the limitations of
- vision in the sim by allowing a rough ID of friend
- or foe, take into account radio communication
- between friendlies, but still force you to spot your
- foes the old-fashioned way.
-
- Unfortunately, I do not believe this is possible in
- Il-2 FB.

This is a little off topic, but speaking of radio communication, is there a way to limit WHICH friendlies you can hear? As it is, you hear all friendly radio traffic, and since they don't id themselves, it's confusing sometimes. Especially when flying as #4 with two or three other flights around. I've accidentally hooked up with the wrong flight because I took the heading and altitude directions from our escort.

Sorry for redirecting this thread.


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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:16 PM
Range only in icons is the laziest of all the icons. Allow the computer to make the going or coming decisions for you.....sad. Turn those icons off and actually track the plane not the text. Guess what happens, you arent distracted by text and can actually judge position and direction of the target.....and best of all you can ID that sucker.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:42 PM
No offence to the poster...icons just ruining it for me. Even friendlies only. I find bunch of blue or red signes flying around...rather irritating. Plus it takes away the challenge. PL is ok by me...i do realize that not everyone has eagles vision...so i leave it up on my server.

V!

Regards,
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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:45 PM
The so-called realism is not there with icons and padlock, but there are a lot of holes in the so-called realism arguments as well.

I like Icons on for several reasons

1) When aircraft go to the deck...you can't see'em. In a real aircraft you have visual anomalies like reflections, passing over different terrain elements that make seeing aircraft viable. When you have almost constant terrain elements and poor reflective abilities on those little tweaks of aircraft at a distance in the IL2-FB you need Icons or something to help you discern an aircraft.

2) When you're a flight leader the tab key commands are not accepted by your flight unless the icons are visible on the enemy. I'm sure it's just the distance, not the icons /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif There just isn't enough time to prepare to engage and give commands. The delay is too long for resending commands, if your flight gives back the can't respond stuff.

I've basically concluded you only give wingmen or flight group commands when the Icons are visible. You gotta give the commands fast or your flight group gets nailed right off. You may lose a couple of the flight as a result.

--------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:49 PM
rummyrum wrote:
- Range only in icons is the laziest of all the icons.
- Allow the computer to make the going or coming
- decisions for you.....sad. Turn those icons off and
- actually track the plane not the text. Guess what
- happens, you arent distracted by text and can
- actually judge position and direction of the
- target.....and best of all you can ID that sucker.
-


Wow that sounds like a good time with the range only icons off. Thanks for telling me what I have been missing. I guess the cherry on top is being able to ID that sucker, even though it has nothing to do with range-only icons.

I thought maybe since I was looking at a dot on a computer screen instead of a real plane that dark range only icons would be cool, but apparently I was wrong! I guess true joy only comes to those who don't know what the %^&* is going on.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:54 PM
Padlock is good in the respect that it allows you to take a glimpse of the enemy a/c just like in real-life. I don't fly with padlock on all the time, I just use it to take a quick look which gives me an idea of where the enemy is going.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 06:59 PM
Padlock is another thing to get good at and at times is the difference between the good pilots and the great pilots. If you are in a padlock game and you don't know how to use padlock, or are one of those guys who "just leaves it on the keyboard, in it's default position, then you are at a distinct disadvantage. Same goes for full real if you only have a 17" monitor or don't use certain handicapped person's hardware.

Here is what happens in the settings:

full real = hatswitch wars. Good for 1 vs 1's but in furballs it shows it's real limitations.

full real+padlock = padlock wars. Same tiresome routine as full real but a little easier pressing a button insted of cleaning off that tiny dot of spit on your monitor in order to be an ace. At least in furballs when something flashes by your face you can press a button to follow it.

full real+padlock+icons = (The best settings but depends on custom icons style) The best icons are range only, dark blue and maroon. (keeps them small, dark, and does the work the game forgot to do (aka solid cockpit bars, etc) of simulating 2 eyes. Black range only icons are preferred but due to padlock not being advanced enough, padlock will tell the difference between friend and foe even if the only icons are black ranges. (which then over emphasizes padlock). So you have your padlock and limited icons and the beauty is it does not rely on 1 factor anymore. You don't have to be "the fastest padlocker in all Mexico, and you don't have to Embark on Star Trck V: The Search for Dots.

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Message Edited on 08/15/0302:00PM by RayBanJockey

adlabs6
08-15-2003, 07:55 PM
Much of this issue is driven by pressure from players. I have often sat quietly in the HL or UBI lobby, and watched as someone set up a room, and when icons were going to be on, or the padlock was going to be off, some players will just 'click out' of that players launch window, and announce 'I don't use icons'. It's like a 'walkout' until they get the settings they want. Some of the host guys will change the settings to get the people to come back to the launch window. Others won't change.

Myself, I like short ranged (under 2-3km) icons on, for both teams. Padlock is disorienting for me, so I never bothered to use it. Often on a server with no icons, and padlock on, I'm simply beat to death (like last night). This happenes because I'm using my hatstick to look around, and others aren't. Right about then is when I get a taste of 'full real' that those guys NEVER get... Their camoflague, unlike my own, actually WORKS!

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 08:13 PM
When I decided to get into this game it was for the realism and I am not disappointed. I only fly in no icon servers and full realism settings(when i can find them) As far as the padlock, or lock views/enemy, i dont use it even when available. Just use mouse and hat switch.

The only complaint I have is the stability of the FW 190's. I hope this is corrected on the patch, which I have yet to download. Some have said it isnt but i shall see for myself. I happen to really enjoy this game but am a little saddened as late model fw-190D is my favorite plane of WW2.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 08:17 PM
Full real + padlock or full real + padlock + icons = not full real period.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 08:17 PM
Because they can...

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adlabs6
08-15-2003, 09:01 PM
full real on a computer = not full real. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:25 PM
This time, I must agree with RBJ.

When the pad is enabled (and it's no more a radar with its 2,9km range and yes, it works in clouds, but only a few seconds), the virtual pilot can apply his skills on piloting.

When the pad is not enabled (host has trackIR...), it's no more really an aviation sim, but a "chinese hat" competition. In this case, it's no more the piloting skills which are important, but the hardware equipment.

A PC screen has many limitations compared to real life, and even more in a cockpit without stereostopic vision. So, comparing the mobility of the neck and the eyes of a real pilot to a virtual pilot looking with his finger is a big joke!

In fact, padlock is a very important device for boom and zoom and energy players, because very often you have to stay higher and look at your targets from the side even in full dogfight.

On the contrary, with a turn and burn aircraft, padlock is no as important, becaus most of the times, your target is in front of you.

So, I presume, most of the hosts bought TrackIR and are turn and burners /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,


P.S. For the icons, I prefer "friendly only", so even if you patrol higher, you still have to find your targets hiding near the ground!

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:26 PM
"The only complaint I have is the stability of the FW 190's"


Btw, the 190 is very stable. Don't fly it like a Yak-3, drive it with a gentle hand and it will be kind to you!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:30 PM
when i host i have friendly icons on & only the ID shows

no name , type , range & i have the icon dissappear after 2 km


Padlock is a LOT more real than moving your head to see with your Hand ( i mean give me a break you padlock whiners )
it moves your head just the same way you would in real life if you were tracking a plane

you can also make the Green Triangle dissappear so it locks on without it

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:33 PM
Badsigh, your settings are the ones I prefer and in my opinion the closer to a as-much-as possible realistic approach.

What's the name of your server, so I can find it the next time I play online?

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:41 PM
i host a Ai included map & im at UBI a lot

no-one gets booted unless they TK or start getting out of hand with the swearing

my connection & computer means that i can only handel 8 ppl MAX tho http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:47 PM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
-
- Padlock is a LOT more real than moving your head to
- see with your Hand ( i mean give me a break you
- padlock whiners )
- it moves your head just the same way you would in
- real life if you were tracking a plane
-
-
I couldn't disagree more, no computer program can move my head the way i would in real life. What you are saying is that when it comes to tracking a target there is only one way to move your head when in a dogfight, correct? Perhaps it may be modeled correctly after someone, but in general eyesight is going to vary greatly between pilots as would flying style. This would be most apparent to the battle worn veteran who knows his enemy fighters abilities and the new recruit going up for his first sortie.

Consider me a padlock whiner for all it is worth, i think it's a crutch and a borderline cheat.

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Message Edited on 08/15/0303:52PM by LW_Cobra

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:16 PM
no cobra i am not saying there is only one way to move your head when tracking ,....
right now i use the HAT & my mouse

when padlock is available im turning it off & on all the time

my point is that the way it follows a Bandit is like you would IRL

i believe a computer program is already replicating the way your head moves ...... I.E you do play FB so your using it already

it is even better now the distance for Padlock is reduced

the addition of the Green triangle is a dumb idea tho ..... thats why i have it set OFF

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:25 PM
CHDT wrote:
- So, I presume, most of the hosts bought TrackIR and
- are turn and burners

Not entirely thru CHDT..i own trackIR and i leave PL on for two reasons...

1) Some people simply can`t see as well as the others due to...either different PC`s...or medical reasons.

2) I don`t consider PL a cheat and i think few months ago Oleg stated that RL pilots highly recommended PL the way it is in FB.

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:04 PM
Nice attitude. I am glad some people are understanding of others situations. Personally from my limmited experience I think RBJ has the best compromise.

crazyivan1970 wrote:
- CHDT wrote:
-- So, I presume, most of the hosts bought TrackIR and
-- are turn and burners
-
- Not entirely thru CHDT..i own trackIR and i leave PL
- on for two reasons...
-
- 1) Some people simply can`t see as well as the
- others due to...either different PC`s...or medical
- reasons.
-
- 2) I don`t consider PL a cheat and i think few
- months ago Oleg stated that RL pilots highly
- recommended PL the way it is in FB.
-
- Regards,
- VFC*Crazyivan
-

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"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:33 PM
Short range icons I can live with. Padlock I cannot. Yes pilots could follow a plane with their eyes. But it was limited to the visibility they had while in the cockpit. Not when the plane flies under them. Thats where padlock gets arcadish. Usually the reason a pilot gets shot down is because he lost sight of the enemy plane. With padlock it stays on him no matter what he does or where he goes. I have always believed, and most will agree that the distance in which you should be able to identify a plane is less in real life than it is in the game. Short range icons make up for that. I never use padlock because it's to easy to stay with a target. IMO

...and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return.
~leonardo de vinci

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:35 PM
Whoa! You CAN have only friendly icons displayed? How?? Can you use this in single player? And how do you turn the silly padlock triangle off?



Message Edited on 08/15/0310:36PM by A.K.Davis

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:48 PM
You know what would be a good idea? If we could have icons all the same color and then set them on just name or or something short. Then you would have to id friend or foe but you could still see them resonably well.

Heh I don't even remeber if that is possible or not. It's been so long since I hosted.


Anyways someone said that mebbe I was confusing padlock with open cockpit. I might be. Dunno. I went through the origonal il-2 settings and found the stuff that I liked and stuck with them through both games. So I have used pl and open cockpit maybe twice.

Man I don't mind looking around with the hat or keyboard. Im used to it and I generally have a pretty good idea of where they are even if they arent in the middle or the windshield. But its just that I want to see things when I look at them. And I don't want people to know where I am when I dive out of the sun or into a cloudbank.

Kind of a moot point though. As most of the games with the settings closest to what I like, and people actually flying in the room, also have no icons up.

Meh. I'll get used to it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:51 AM
S! to all virtual pilots.

It is interesting to read the posts of some of the game settings elitist that fly this sim.

Simulation computer game + wannaba pilot=not full real period.

Full real dificulty game settings=not full real period.

Flying a real plane= 'FULL REAL PERIOD'

Have a nice day in the virtual skies.






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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:54 AM
Mr.Krunchie wrote:
- Doesn't it sort of defeat the purpose?

No /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Strictly speaking the purpose of the game is that it is being played.

But i must admit that i find some combinations of settings quite funny. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif E.g. Full real, padlock on and icons off, the combination is almost contradictory. To me icons, no cockpit, external views are no less realistic than padlock is. They're just difficulty settings like any other.

First of all i don't consider padlock a cheat. Not even if it's being used as radar. In fact i like using padlock to scan for targets in no icon games (though i don't like PL to track bandits with it in a furball, because it's too limited for that) I also like the no cockpit setting to make the otherwise impossible high deflections shots. But padlock like no cockpit etc, is nothing but just another difficulty setting.

Meaning, some things just get a lot easier when it's enabled and consequently become a lot harder when it is disabled. In the case of padlock it's finding and tracking targets.

The argument that if the host doesn't use it himself, he should keep it enabled on the server, is no valid argument to enable a certain difficulty setting either. For instance, if padlock is allowed, then why not also allow a lot of other difficulty settings that don't have to be used by those who don't like it? e.g. no cockpit, icons, external views, padlock triangle, etc etc? Would make a lot more sense in that case./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Simply accept that the host is the one to decide about the settings. Some people may not like the settings but there's no point in complaining about settings you don't like. What does make sense is pick only the servers with the settings you like, or even better, host your own.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:34 AM
Dnmy wrote:
- i must admit that i find some combinations of
- settings quite funny. E.g. Full real, padlock on ...
- the combination is almost - contradictory.

Dang you must have a sick sense of humor. How could anyone play full real plus padlock? That's hilareous, right? Might as well play full real plus invincibility, because any setting is JUST a setting, and 1 click away from the Holy Grail of settings ... Full Real. Full Real or bust I say. I don't care if Full Real includes a setting where my computer would reboot every time I died, as long as I know I'm playing Full Real, that's chicken soup for the soul. In fact I find any discussion of difficulty settings quite funny, because that would mean they would be considering flying without having clicked the Full Real button first. These people are probably just arcader types, who wouldn't know the difference between latte' and mocha.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:52 AM
For those who think TrackIR is cheating or something, buy one. And I find, with practice, the hatswitch can be worked fast enough to keep SA. And besides, in real life the pilot still has to keep track of the enemy plane. What I mean is its very easy to lose a camo aircraft when you're flying low above trees or something. With padlock, you don't need to keep track of the plane because its always right in the middle of your screen.

Hat switch is fine, I can fly with it. Just practice more or stay in the arcade servers.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:00 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- Dnmy wrote:
-- i must admit that i find some combinations of
-- settings quite funny. E.g. Full real, padlock on ...
-- the combination is almost - contradictory.
-
- Dang you must have a sick sense of humor. How could
- anyone play full real plus padlock? That's
- hilareous, right? Might as well play full real plus
- invincibility, because any setting is JUST a
- setting, and 1 click away from the Holy Grail of
- settings ... Full Real. Full Real or bust I say. I
- don't care if Full Real includes a setting where my
- computer would reboot every time I died, as long as
- I know I'm playing Full Real, that's chicken soup
- for the soul. In fact I find any discussion of
- difficulty settings quite funny, because that would
- mean they would be considering flying without having
- clicked the Full Real button first. These people
- are probably just arcader types, who wouldn't know
- the difference between latte' and mocha.
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)


Guess what smart ***? He was referring to having padlock on, but icons off. Before the patch you could use padlock to magically find bandits, thus making the lack of icons kinda of ridiculous. You still can, but at least the distance is much closer now.

Personally, I think the challenge should be in seeing your enemy before he sees you, not in trying to identify whether that is a bad enemy speck or a nice friendly speck you are about to trade 2000m for. Seems like friendly-only icons would make almost everyone happy. No one loses the element of surprise, but no one wastes valuable game time chasing friendly specks all around the sky. And if you are biased against icons simply because they look bad, just turn them off!

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:03 AM
And reading more of this thread, whoever the ****** are that think non-pad servers MUST BE TrackIR hosts, go to hell and play Counterstrike. Thats a crappy thing to say. I host servers all the time for my squad and for the public and I never use padlock and don't have TrackIR (costs alot), but I wouldn't give a rat's *** if somebody with TrackIR came in. I can fly and fight fine with my hat switch, some of you people need to shut the hell up and stop whinning. This isn't how a flight sim community is supposed to be...seems like it has been corrupted from people of other genres.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:04 AM
hello,

I agree with RBJ, I don't see any full real settings in any game, only a variety of difficulty settings which the owner of the server is free to choose at his (or her) lesure.

A server visitor can choose to play under those settings and rules or not!.

I try to think of the server host who may be paying for his internet connection, has taken the trouble of setting up a server for himself and others, the last thing he (or she) may want is to be told or advised of how to play the game.

I always thank the server hosts for taking the time to share and set them up, I am happy to fly under any settings which suit the mood I am in.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:15 AM
if you ever played janes wwii fighters, the hat switch moves as smooth as your mouse in there and you can change the smoothness and speed of the pov

In fb and il2 cfs's its all done in snap sections which stinks in my opinion.

FB does have f9 but a 8 button hat should be able to be smooth as the mouse.

Even with the programs out there at simhq to get smooth hat switch movement they dnt compair to janes where it was just as good as moving the mouse.


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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:22 AM
padlock on icons off = padlock does not differentiate

padlock on icons on = padlock differentiates (friend or foe)

So now that padlock is 3000m you set range only icons to 3000m as well with dark blue and dark maroon colors. Then you have the best settings.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:29 AM
A.K.Davis wrote:
- The ideal icon settings would be to display friendly
- only. This would compensate for the limitations of
- vision in the sim by allowing a rough ID of friend
- or foe, take into account radio communication
- between friendlies, but still force you to spot your
- foes the old-fashioned way.
-
- Unfortunately, I do not believe this is possible in
- Il-2 FB.
-
-


Sure it's possible. It is being done all the time. I can't give you the details of how to do it, but "The_Dude," (formerly known as g00se) uses these settings routinely on his server. Pop in to one of his games, and ask him how he does it.

He also does the "scripted server" thing, and I have no idea how he does that, either.

Zip

<center>BlitzPig_Zip

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gingernuts/blitz_anim.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:42 AM
Lead, what programs do you speak of? They interest me. I looked on simhq downloads and cant seem to find what you're talking about. Could you provide a more presise link?

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:52 AM
I highly reccommend against the use of "friendly-only" icons. Planes with no icons and planes with icons should never be mixed. It destroys the continuity of the situation. An enemy dot can be masked by your friendlies icon. If anything, put icons on enemies only. If you think that's absurd it the same as friendlies only.

Dark range only icons for all, or no icons at all.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:26 AM
Fairly civilized discussion going on, usually someone has already called into question someone else's manhood over their policy on the use of in game "aids" (aids as in something that provides assistance, not the disease) Too bad its such a black and white issue. Some people believe that the only way to play the game is with no aids whatsoever, people should admire that. You want to take toughest most challenging trail. It's a good quality. Some like to take less strenuous paths. Nothing wrong with that, it's their game. Too bad insults get tossed because of it. It's rude.
Same with track-IR, some got it, and they exploit it by having no padlock games and those that don't have it are jealous, I know I am, I finally got a chance to try it, its great, gotta have it
BTW, I guess you'd have to classify the track_ir as an aid, correct? It's most defiantly an aid, So can you still call it full real if you got one of those? whoa, bu think it actually make it more real, but then, its an aid, man a paradox. Look at that. But hey , I like aids, I'm gonna get one., just wish they'd come out with the "new and improved" version.






Message Edited on 08/15/0310:35PM by Supr

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:37 AM
The reason people make servers with no icons but allow padlock is that if you lock a bandit you have to make sure its a bandit & not a friendly this adds some more realism normaly you can id the enemy by the size & shape of the ac

I run a server with jabo targets, I Customize the Icons so that you cannot see them Untill your 2m away from enemy & 4m from friendly But I have padlock shut off & the Pit is optional

the main thing is that in the settings where there is no icons but there is padlock is that each team must wear proper Id colors

Black cross for german & red star Russia

I fly all settings Full real with nothing too open pit with default Icons & padlock

flying bolth makes me better overall & im sure many of you do the same

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:37 AM
It's funny, I used to think icons were completely apropriate becuase the moniter restricts your vision so much... I thought not finding aircraft at 10,000 ft looking down was completely unrealistic - until I started taking flying lessons.
The first day I was up, the tower called a King Air at 2 o'clock 1.5 miles out and I realized I couldn't see a thing. And it was unrestricted visibilty that day. And I have 20/20 vision.
So I'm not exactly sure what you guys are talking about when you say no icons is less realistic. Maybe WWII planes were bigger. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/flying_moose/images/2-picture3.jpg?0.488377430005666 </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:44 AM
LW_Cobra wrote:
- WUAF_Badsight wrote:
--
-- Padlock is a LOT more real than moving your head to
-- see with your Hand ( i mean give me a break you
-- padlock whiners )
-- it moves your head just the same way you would in
-- real life if you were tracking a plane
--
--
- I couldn't disagree more, no computer program can
- move my head the way i would in real life.

I think he is talking about a pilot turning his head to track a target.

Say a plane is zipping from three oclock low too 12 oclock high in front of you. How would your head and eyes follow it in real life? You would follow it's true flight path, so if it suddenly changed direction you would know.

How would you follow that plane with a hat or the keypad? However you choose to get there, it wouldn't be following it along it's flight path, it's not an option in IL-2, you are stuck with general directions or panning certain directions.

You could use a mouse, but that takes up a valuable hand AND real pilots don't use their hand to watch another plane. Which is more realistic?

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:52 AM
There's absolutely no harm in padlock ID-ing friend from foe.
That's what it's there for, to make it easier to find, ID, and track targets. that's the sole purpose of padlock. And if it can't do that, it's not exactly a well designed padlock.

It's not for nothing they have a command reserved for padlock "enemy" air, padlock "enemy" ground etc. The "enemy" or "friendly"in front means that it is already ID-ed. It was meant that way.

So the best padlock would be an allfollowing magical padlock that can lock planes as soon as the dot becomes visible and can ID automatically at the button press. After all the goal is to fly without fumbling too much with the hatswitch and to let the computer do the finding, ID-ing and tracking. Such padlocks a la CFS series exist and have been there ever since padlock was invented. And the beauty is that people who wouldn't like such a padlock would not even be forced to use it.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:55 AM
These Custom Icon settings are superior if you must have padlock

@a fr mp_dotrange FRIENDLY COLOR 2.5 DOT .005 RANGE 1.8 TYPE .005 ID 2.5 NAME .005

@a fo mp_dotrange FOE COLOR 2.1 DOT .005 RANGE 2.1 TYPE .005 ID .005 NAME .005

They work great for no padlock as well

Have Fun !!!!!!

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:58 AM
Supr wrote:
- Fairly civilized discussion going on, usually
- someone has already called into question someone
- else's manhood over their policy on the use of in
- game "aids" (aids as in something that provides
- assistance, not the disease) Too bad its such a
- black and white issue. Some people believe that the
- only way to play the game is with no aids
- whatsoever, people should admire that. You want to
- take toughest most challenging trail. It's a good
- quality. Some like to take less strenuous paths.
- Nothing wrong with that, it's their game. Too bad
- insults get tossed because of it. It's rude.
- Same with track-IR, some got it, and they exploit it
- by having no padlock games and those that don't have
- it are jealous, I know I am, I finally got a chance
- to try it, its great, gotta have it
- BTW, I guess you'd have to classify the track_ir as
- an aid, correct? It's most defiantly an aid, So
- can you still call it full real if you got one of
- those? whoa, bu think it actually make it more
- real, but then, its an aid, man a paradox. Look
- at that. But hey , I like aids, I'm gonna get
- one., just wish they'd come out with the "new and
- improved" version.
-

Yes, Track-IR is an aid but a more "realistic" aid because it uses the head to change views. This thread isn't about "fairness," it's about realism.

But in this vein, a faster computer and graphics card also makes the game, and in particular "no icon" servers, unfair AND unrealistic.

People who have more fps and a higher resolution have a distinctly easier time estimating the enemy's closing speed and distance, not to mention the type of aircreft they are flying. So adding distance icons is a bit of an equalizer because it gives everybody the same ability to estimate distances, like in real life, where all pilots have the same frames per second view of their enemies.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:02 AM
ppl , ppl , ppl .....

in your config file you can make the HAT move like the mouse .....I.E NON centering

personally i prefer to use the mouse but i see the way PL moves & to me its even MORE realistic

and Redwulf 55 YOU IS WRONG

IRL it is eaiser to see things around you compared to the way Graphics are displayed in FB on our computers

its been said B4 & ill say it again .......
REAL LIFE PILOTS ( army & commercial ) have stated that the PL is a good representation of plane tracking & that planes are eaiser to spot IRL

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:03 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I highly reccommend against the use of
- "friendly-only" icons. Planes with no icons and
- planes with icons should never be mixed. It
- destroys the continuity of the situation. An enemy
- dot can be masked by your friendlies icon.

You can turn them off if they bother you. Not being able to ID my own wingman unless he's within 500m "destroys the continuity of the situation" for me.


- If anything, put icons on enemies only. If you think
- that's absurd it the same as friendlies only.

If you truly believe that aircraft are just as easy to spot with or without icons, then I think you should just go ahead and step out of this discussion. You are clearly operating on a different plane of reality.

adlabs6
08-16-2003, 06:05 AM
Let me jump in here again.

When a server enables padlock, that host DOES NOT FORCE a player to use the padlock, and the host DOES NOT FORCE a player NOT to use the padlock. The PLAYER decides.

When a server disables icons, that host FORCES a player NOT to use the icons. There is NO choice. The player DOES NOT decide.

I am bored with the "icons annoy me" and "icons ruin my experience" rebutals. In reality, a host chooses to FORCE me NOT to have a visual aid avalible (icons), based solely on his personal preference or bias. The host simply doesn't want me to have that assistance, it's not that he "is bothered" by seeing icons, which are adjustable on the client side.

If the host were truly bothered by seeing icons, and wanted equality for players to choose what they like to use, both icons and padlock would be ENABLED! Those players, including the host, who are "bothered" by icons could simply bind a key to the "TOGGLE ICONS" function in FB, and TURN ICONS OFF ON THEIR SCREEN, while leaving me free to choose.

I have mapped the "*" key of my numberpad to toggle the icons, and I VERY often adjust them to what I want. Ranged icons only? a "*" press away. Do I want to see ALL data? Just a "*" press away. And I even sometimes select NO ICONS, just a "*" press away. And keep in mind that this is possible REGARDLESS of server side settings!

Let me also repeat that the friendly icon only setting DOES NOT HELP those with poor vision! It is USELESS!

I'll repeat again, a host chooses to FORCE me NOT to have a visual aid avalible (icons), based solely on his personal preference or bias. The host simply doesn't want me to have that assistance, it's not that he "is bothered" by seeing icons, which ARE adjustable on the client side. If a server is from the outset intended for a "full real" game, then fine. I'll join and abide by those rules. But otherwise, a massive gap in player choice is created by 'selective' assumed ideals in settings choices, and threads like these come to be. Over and over.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:22 AM
A.K.Davis wrote:
-
- RayBanJockey wrote:
-- I highly reccommend against the use of
-- "friendly-only" icons. Planes with no icons and
-- planes with icons should never be mixed. It
-- destroys the continuity of the situation. An enemy
-- dot can be masked by your friendlies icon.
-
- You can turn them off if they bother you. Not being
- able to ID my own wingman unless he's within 500m
- "destroys the continuity of the situation" for me.


By your logic, players who prefer the cockpit should play in no-cockpit games and turn the cockpit on? Cmon, get real. Your logic is twisted. One should use every available awareness aid. Saying I can turn friendly-only icons off if they bother me just shows that you do not value competition, and are more in it for the joy ride. What sucks is when you enter a furball with these unequal "friedly-only" icons, and have to pick out the enemy like trying to catch mosqitoes among fireflies. No way hose'.


-- If anything, put icons on enemies only. If you think
-- that's absurd it the same as friendlies only.
-
- If you truly believe that aircraft are just as easy
- to spot with or without icons, then I think you
- should just go ahead and step out of this
- discussion. You are clearly operating on a
- different plane of reality.

Your accusations and assumptions are prepostorous. When did I say aircraft are just as easy to spot with or without icons? I am saying don't mix the dots without the icons, with the dots with icons. Show some continuity in the aircraft representation. And if padlock is on (which it should be) in these so called "friendly-only" icon games then you will have instant ID of all lockable aircraft within 3000km. So you are trying to be all "secretive" with the icons but it doesn't mean jack. Just give everybody dark range-only icons and everything will be hunky dory. (advice from a true online ace who knows about gameplay)

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

adlabs6
08-16-2003, 07:32 AM
Hey again. I was a bit pesky when I wrote that "let me jump back in here" post up there. (I'm ticking better now thanks! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ) Please don't take it personal, or in a negative way, cause I don't feel like that. Actually, I'd rewrite that whole thing more tactfully if it wans't so long winded, and it wasn't so late at night (morning now).

Anyway, just think of it as a peek in my head, but the house was messy when you visited. It's all cleaned up now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:11 AM
Realistic, unrealistic.


Well, guess what, kiddies? Sitting in front of a computer monitor is not "realistic" WWII aerial combat.

Flying midair labels is not realistic, nor is trying to affix an ID to tiny pixels floating around on your screen. NEITHER is realistic. You might like one way better than the other, but don't fool yourself into thinking that your way is more "realistic".

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:07 AM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
-
- ppl , ppl , ppl .....
-
-
- in your config file you can make the HAT move like
- the mouse .....I.E NON centering
-
-
- personally i prefer to use the mouse but i see the
- way PL moves & to me its even MORE realistic
-
-
- and Redwulf 55 YOU IS WRONG
-
-
- IRL it is eaiser to see things around you compared
- to the way Graphics are displayed in FB on our
- computers
-
-
- its been said B4 & ill say it again .......
-
- REAL LIFE PILOTS ( army & commercial ) have stated
- that the PL is a good representation of plane
- tracking & that planes are eaiser to spot IRL
-
-
-No, I'm not wrong by any definition of the word. Padlock would be realistic if it stopped tracking when it reached the limits of the pilots view from the cockpit. It does not do that. It keeps tracking the plane even if it goes under yours. Tell me how thats realistic. It tracks the plane when it dives into clouds. Tell me how thats realistic. that was a tactic used by virtually every pilot who had a cloud to dive into. Someone said "Sometimes you lose a camoflaged plane when it is flying close to the ground. Well, duhhhh. Thats why they camoflaged the things. Say what you want and by all means fly like you want. But IMO using things that track planes whereas a real pilot could not is just not realistic. Anything that goes beyond the pilots view is NOT realistic by any means.
-
-



...and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return.
~leonardo de vinci

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:53 AM
Well, I'm glad I'm not alone. I've been quietly protesting for a while now that I wish more servers would allow padlock. I don't have track IR - it sounds great but I simply cannot afford it.

Without it you're limited to your hatswitch or keypad. I find this not only ludicrous - for there is nothing 'realistic' about controlling the movement of one's head with one's fingers - but extremely frustrating. It really takes the immersion out of it for me.

Back when padlock was first invented (Falcon 3.0 if memory serves) it was praised as a great idea to get round the limitations of a 2d screen.



'Needlessly hard' is not quite the same thing as 'realistic'.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:47 AM
That's correct,

but not only should more servers allow padlock, they should also allow the triangle, icons and externals and no cockpit (the medium settings). Those that don't wanna use all those settings, by all means, they don't have to use them, or they can turn them off /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif hehe

Furthermore it is a pity that padlock range was reduced to 3km (?) Trademark of the aces was that they could spot and ID planes at extreme ranges. But in FB when you press the padlock button it's not aces who are modelled it is shortsighted cataractic one eyed dwarfs wearing blinders that are modelled. The shorter you set the padlock range the more shortsighted the dwarf will be. The radarsearch at long range with padlock is exactly how it should be, it models great pilot eyesight.

No shortsighted dwarf for me thank you, i can spot the dots 10 km away with my trackIR and that's exactly when i start tracking them (handsfree). And another thing, even when i play cockpit on games, ain't no way i'm gonna lose track of bandits in a furball. I never lose "lock". That's how the padlock should behave as well, otherwise it still ain't fair on the non trackIR guys. Simply ain't no point in a padlock that loses lock. Once established, padlock should keep its lock untill you wish it to break. When padlock breaks now, it means the padlock guys will have to use the hatswitch/mouse again to reacquire. And one of the purposes of padlock is to not having to unrealistically fumble with the hatswitch/mouse. After all, that's unnescessary hard.

And there ARE padlocks where you never have to use the hatswitch. I have to say FB's padlock comes close to never losing lock if you speed up the panning in the conf.ini, but unfortunately it still does not yet belong in the category of great padlocks. For it to be near perfect, its range needs to be extended to at least 10 km's and the padlocked object should remain perfectly locked and centred at all times until you specifically want the lock to break to target a different bandit.

Otherwise it just becomes needlessly hard. And we don't want that, that's why the padlock, the triangle, the external view, the no cockpit, the icons, shouldn't be server side options, they should be player side options. Those that want it hard simply don't have to use these options. Those that want it easy can use these options./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JamesT73J wrote:

- I wish more servers
- would allow padlock. I don't have track IR - it
- sounds great but I simply cannot afford it.
-
- Without it you're limited to your hatswitch or
- keypad. I find this not only ludicrous - for there
- is nothing 'realistic' about controlling the
- movement of one's head with one's fingers - but
- extremely frustrating. It really takes the immersion
- out of it for me.
-
- Back when padlock was first invented (Falcon 3.0 if
- memory serves) it was praised as a great idea to get
- round the limitations of a 2d screen.
-
-
-
- 'Needlessly hard' is not quite the same thing as
- 'realistic'.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:07 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- rummyrum wrote:
-- Range only in icons is the laziest of all the icons.
-- Allow the computer to make the going or coming
-- decisions for you.....sad. Turn those icons off and
-- actually track the plane not the text. Guess what
-- happens, you arent distracted by text and can
-- actually judge position and direction of the
-- target.....and best of all you can ID that sucker.
--
-
-
- Wow that sounds like a good time with the range only
- icons off. Thanks for telling me what I have been
- missing. I guess the cherry on top is being able to
- ID that sucker, even though it has nothing to do
- with range-only icons.
-
- I thought maybe since I was looking at a dot on a
- computer screen instead of a real plane that dark
- range only icons would be cool, but apparently I was
- wrong! I guess true joy only comes to those who
- don't know what the %^&* is going on.
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)



ROFL!





JG27_Arklight
"Taking out the garbage since release"

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 01:53 PM
Dnmy wrote:

Otherwise it just becomes needlessly hard. And we
- don't want that, that's why the padlock, the
- triangle, the external view, the no cockpit, the
- icons, shouldn't be server side options, they should
- be player side options. Those that want it hard
- simply don't have to use these options. Those that
- want it easy can use these options./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Hey this is great, it will be like CFS2!!!! Maybe we can get Auto-follower added too, so we won't have to be bothered by having to fly and shoot at the same time. And some Mod planes with ten guns added to each wing.....that's the ticket. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif LMAO

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Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win.
Motto, U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School
(TOPGUN)



Message Edited on 08/16/03 08:02AM by FA_Maddog

Message Edited on 08/16/0308:03AM by FA_Maddog

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:22 PM
hehe exactly! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

And if we can convince Oleg to allow usermoddable planes, it WILL be like CFS2! Here's to hoping /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


FA_Maddog wrote:

- Hey this is great, it will be like CFS2!!!! Maybe
- we can get Auto-follower added too, so we won't have
- to be bothered by having to fly and shoot at the
- same time. And some Mod planes with ten guns added
- to each wing.....that's the ticket.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:58 PM
Redwulf__55 wrote:

-No, I'm not wrong by any definition of
-the word. Padlock would be realistic if
-it stopped tracking when it reached the
-limits of the pilots view from the cockpit.
-It does not do that. It keeps tracking
-the plane even if it goes under yours.
-Tell me how thats realistic. It tracks
-the plane when it dives into clouds. Tell
-me how thats realistic.


It's realistic because it breaks the padlock within about 3 seconds of the padlocked a/c disappearing behind a cockpit frame/bar or into a cloud.

IMO, that seems a very good representation of the fact that you don't immediately forget where an a/c is the moment it disappears from view. You would still know roughly where it is from how it had been moving when you lost sight of it. It would be far more unrealistic for the padlock to break the instant an object was temporarily obscured from view (e.g., behind a cockpit framing bar).

If anything, the padlock as implemented now is too restrictive because it returns the view to straight ahead when the lock is brocken, rather than leaving it in the last position occupied when padlocked.

Regards,

RocketDog.

adlabs6
08-16-2003, 03:13 PM
RocketDog wrote:

- If anything, the padlock as implemented now is too
- restrictive because it returns the view to straight
- ahead when the lock is brocken, rather than leaving
- it in the last position occupied when padlocked.

Very True.

I always thought I could give padlock a more serious look if it would stay where it is when the lock is broken, and allow the hatswitch to work as usual durning a lock, only instead of returning to the gunsight, it would return to lock point. (Kind of like "look ahead with lock")

This would help me keep track of other things while still locking. As it is now, I feel like I have tunnel vision with the lock on.

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:03 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- A.K.Davis wrote:
--
-- RayBanJockey wrote:
--- I highly reccommend against the use of
--- "friendly-only" icons. Planes with no icons and
--- planes with icons should never be mixed. It
--- destroys the continuity of the situation. An enemy
--- dot can be masked by your friendlies icon.
--
-- You can turn them off if they bother you. Not being
-- able to ID my own wingman unless he's within 500m
-- "destroys the continuity of the situation" for me.
-
-
- By your logic, players who prefer the cockpit should
- play in no-cockpit games and turn the cockpit on?
- Cmon, get real. Your logic is twisted. One should
- use every available awareness aid. Saying I can
- turn friendly-only icons off if they bother me just
- shows that you do not value competition, and are
- more in it for the joy ride.

But the only reason you give for not having friendly-only icons on is that they "should not be mixed" and that they "destroy the continuity of the situation." If all you can offer is subjective, personal reasons, then why even bother when the option exists to simply turn them off?

- What sucks is when you
- enter a furball with these unequal "friedly-only"
- icons, and have to pick out the enemy like trying to
- catch mosqitoes among fireflies. No way hose'.

So you would find distinguishing friend or foe between two unmarked dots harder than distinguishing between a dot with and icon and a dot without? Well, while your busy contemplating this conundrum, I'll be diving on the ones without icons.

--- If anything, put icons on enemies only. If you think
--- that's absurd it the same as friendlies only.
--
-- If you truly believe that aircraft are just as easy
-- to spot with or without icons, then I think you
-- should just go ahead and step out of this
-- discussion. You are clearly operating on a
-- different plane of reality.
-
- Your accusations and assumptions are prepostorous.
- When did I say aircraft are just as easy to spot
- with or without icons? I am saying don't mix the
- dots without the icons, with the dots with icons.
- Show some continuity in the aircraft representation.

WHY? Because you subjectively believe that to be the right and proper way to do things? Was this communicated to you in a vision, or do you have some reason that actually pertains to fairness, simulation and the element of surprise?

- And if padlock is on (which it should be) in these
- so called "friendly-only" icon games then you will
- have instant ID of all lockable aircraft within
- 3000km.

I believe the distance was reduced to 2k, but this is irrelevant because many servers that are "no icons" are also "no padlock."

- So you are trying to be all "secretive"
- with the icons but it doesn't mean jack. Just give
- everybody dark range-only icons and everything will
- be hunky dory.

Do you not understand that I am trying to offer what I see as a compromise between those who believe that icons on enemy aircraft ruin/reduce the element of surprise (and thus set their servers to "no icons") and those who believe that 1.) you should not have to close to unrealistic distances (imposed by the limitations of software/hardware) simply to ID whether an aircraft is friend or foe and that 2.) due to radio comms and familiarity, more information should be available to you about friendlies than enemies. Your 1 color-only icons are not a solution to either of these problems.


- (advice from a true online ace who
- knows about gameplay)
-

If you really want to put me in my place, why don't you show me your true, online Distinguished Flying Cross. And you can follow that up by displaying to me your true, online enormous phallus. Then I'm sure I'll never venture to disagree with you again.