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HSCOnyxAssassin
07-21-2011, 12:03 PM
SO I was on Stumble Upon today when it brought me to a video about a 12,000 year old structure in Turkey so many miles south of Mt. Ararat. I don't have the link to the video but when they showed Mt. Ararat, it looked ALOT like the mountain from the Truth video in AC2. I know popular theory holds that THAT mountain is Kilamanjaro, but with the striking similarity AND the fact that AC:R takes place in Turkey it might be an interesting little twist. Also, this structure they found is thought to be some kind of record of the great flood and noahs ark(Which is supposedly in Mt. Ararat). Just thought I'd stir the conspiracy pot, as it were.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 12:12 PM
there's already a thread for the video and the mountain is Mt. Kilimanjaro.

HSCOnyxAssassin
07-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Did you read my post? I'm presenting a new theory. Where has it been confirmed that the Mountain in the truth video IS Mt. Kilimanjaro? Thats purely speculative. Anyways I just want others' thoughts on this theory. With Mt. Ararat looking VERY similar to the mountain in the truth video, and with AC:R taking place in Constantinople/Turkey I think it's a good possibility.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by roboshake:
Did you read my post? I'm presenting a new theory. Where has it been confirmed that the Mountain in the truth video IS Mt. Kilimanjaro? Thats purely speculative. Anyways I just want others' thoughts on this theory. With Mt. Ararat looking VERY similar to the mountain in the truth video, and with AC:R taking place in Constantinople/Turkey I think it's a good possibility.
well since the mountain looks almost exactly like Mt. Kilimanjaro and since the first traces of humanity are found in that region it is the one thing most of us are quite convinced of.

HSCOnyxAssassin
07-21-2011, 01:19 PM
THATS the thing....if the evidence from this proves to be true, this structure pre-dates Mesopotamia by about 4000 years meaning that our preconceptions about civilization and humanity itself may be way off the mark. It's Ubisoft and I could see them flipping all of our "notions" on their head in revelations.

LightRey
07-21-2011, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by roboshake:
THATS the thing....if the evidence from this proves to be true, this structure pre-dates Mesopotamia by about 4000 years meaning that our preconceptions about civilization and humanity itself may be way off the mark. It's Ubisoft and I could see them flipping all of our "notions" on their head in revelations.
civilization. Not humanity. The origin of the human species can be traced back to Africa, like a million years ago, near Mt. Kilimanjaro, we only left about 100,000 years ago as far as we know (except for some small groups).

ThaWhistle
07-21-2011, 02:58 PM
it might work with the indo-european language origin theory of somewhere around the black sea. Who knows what we're in for.

NewBlade200
08-20-2011, 07:13 PM
I thought you posted Mr. Ararat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Cercatrova
08-20-2011, 09:01 PM
As much as I would like it to be the "holy mountain", it most likely is not, however, I do have doubts about Kilimanjaro, Foremost that the only way I can get a view of Kilimanjaro that matches "The Truth" places its "sister" mountain, Mawenzi on the wrong side of the frame. admittedly, there is the possibility that the region, or any other mountain region looked much different in the time. I am exploring some other mountains as possibilities.

Poodle_of_Doom
08-20-2011, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roboshake:
THATS the thing....if the evidence from this proves to be true, this structure pre-dates Mesopotamia by about 4000 years meaning that our preconceptions about civilization and humanity itself may be way off the mark. It's Ubisoft and I could see them flipping all of our "notions" on their head in revelations.
civilization. Not humanity. The origin of the human species can be traced back to Africa, like a million years ago, near Mt. Kilimanjaro, we only left about 100,000 years ago as far as we know (except for some small groups). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So say the Templars....

LightRey
08-20-2011, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roboshake:
THATS the thing....if the evidence from this proves to be true, this structure pre-dates Mesopotamia by about 4000 years meaning that our preconceptions about civilization and humanity itself may be way off the mark. It's Ubisoft and I could see them flipping all of our "notions" on their head in revelations.
civilization. Not humanity. The origin of the human species can be traced back to Africa, like a million years ago, near Mt. Kilimanjaro, we only left about 100,000 years ago as far as we know (except for some small groups). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So say the Templars.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
so says the evidence. I also doubt that any significant number of humans escaped Eden before the war with TWCB.

Cercatrova
08-20-2011, 10:15 PM
I think you miss the point poodle is making, which is simply that much of what we believe is, in essence, little more than templar "propaganda".

Poodle_of_Doom
08-20-2011, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roboshake:
THATS the thing....if the evidence from this proves to be true, this structure pre-dates Mesopotamia by about 4000 years meaning that our preconceptions about civilization and humanity itself may be way off the mark. It's Ubisoft and I could see them flipping all of our "notions" on their head in revelations.
civilization. Not humanity. The origin of the human species can be traced back to Africa, like a million years ago, near Mt. Kilimanjaro, we only left about 100,000 years ago as far as we know (except for some small groups). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So say the Templars.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
so says the evidence. I also doubt that any significant number of humans escaped Eden before the war with TWCB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As above, as well as I wasn't sure if you were debating real life fact to a video game. That said though,.... You only know what facts you've been fed, and they've been fed to you by Templars. As for this really being evidence, keep in mind, these are the same people who planted the missing link.... and passed it for real.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roboshake:
THATS the thing....if the evidence from this proves to be true, this structure pre-dates Mesopotamia by about 4000 years meaning that our preconceptions about civilization and humanity itself may be way off the mark. It's Ubisoft and I could see them flipping all of our "notions" on their head in revelations.
civilization. Not humanity. The origin of the human species can be traced back to Africa, like a million years ago, near Mt. Kilimanjaro, we only left about 100,000 years ago as far as we know (except for some small groups). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So say the Templars.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
so says the evidence. I also doubt that any significant number of humans escaped Eden before the war with TWCB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As above, as well as I wasn't sure if you were debating real life fact to a video game. That said though,.... You only know what facts you've been fed, and they've been fed to you by Templars. As for this really being evidence, keep in mind, these are the same people who planted the missing link.... and passed it for real. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If real life corroborates with what we SEE in the game, then we can assume that the Templars DIDN'T falsify that fact.

Cercatrova
08-20-2011, 11:05 PM
Sometimes, yes, but we have to go on what information we have.


January 3, 1997

I'm writing in response to your concerns about the rising alarm in the press and the scientific community. The lack of a transitional ancestor from archaic hominids to modern mankind (Homo Sapiens) is no longer safe. As you wrote, we have to act.

We can't let the truth get out, they'll find out about the artifacts. It will cause too much disruption, too much chaos. Bury our constructed skeletons near Tim White's expedition in Ethiopia. We'll give them their missing link.

The birth of humanity. The truth makes me sick.


As poodle says, they do manipulate events. Also, we have to accept Ubisoft takes some liberty, which is completely acceptable. Not every person dies as "true" history records it, or when, for that matter. This is core to the story of this game. I would argue it is an important part of what makes it great.

As an aside, this letter above, refers to Tim D. White, I quote "In 1994, White discovered what was then the oldest known human ancestor: 4.4 million-year-old Ar. ramidus. Found near the Awash River in Ethiopia, an almost complete fossilized female skeleton named "Ardi" took nearly 15 years to prepare publication of the description."

LightRey
08-20-2011, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
As above, as well as I wasn't sure if you were debating real life fact to a video game. That said though,.... You only know what facts you've been fed, and they've been fed to you by Templars. As for this really being evidence, keep in mind, these are the same people who planted the missing link.... and passed it for real.
Not all of them were. In fact, quite a lot of it comes from S16.
Either way, my main point is that the Adam and Eve recording has a date that's later than 100000 years ago and since in the AC universe it's still very likely the case that the earliest homo sapiens lived in Africa, combined with the fact that it looks much more like Mt. Kilimanjaro than Mt. Ararat I'd say we have every reason to assume it's Mt. Kilimanjaro.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by Cercatrova:
Sometimes, yes, but we have to go on what information we have.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> January 3, 1997

I'm writing in response to your concerns about the rising alarm in the press and the scientific community. The lack of a transitional ancestor from archaic hominids to modern mankind (Homo Sapiens) is no longer safe. As you wrote, we have to act.

We can't let the truth get out, they'll find out about the artifacts. It will cause too much disruption, too much chaos. Bury our constructed skeletons near Tim White's expedition in Ethiopia. We'll give them their missing link.

The birth of humanity. The truth makes me sick.


As poodle says, they do manipulate events. Also, we have to accept Ubisoft takes some liberty, which is completely acceptable. Not every person dies as "true" history records it, or when, for that matter. This is core to the story of this game. I would argue it is an important part of what makes it great.

As an aside, this letter above, refers to Tim D. White, I quote "In 1994, White discovered what was then the oldest known human ancestor: 4.4 million-year-old Ar. ramidus. Found near the Awash River in Ethiopia, an almost complete fossilized female skeleton named "Ardi" took nearly 15 years to prepare publication of the description." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think that that's the same thing at all as seeing a memory occur in a very distinctive place that corroborates with what we know about where humans probably first came from in real life.

Cercatrova
08-20-2011, 11:31 PM
Granted, there are some facts that pertain solely to the game which we have no information on.
1. When did the war between TWCB and "humans" begin, and end?
2. How long before that did TWCB create "humans"?
3. How much did humans change, or "evolve" during that time?
4. How much do the Templars/Abstergo know about "The Truth"? Obviously they have seen the "Truth" memory, but the letter regarding "The Truth" about humanity (in my previous post) is well nearly 1 decade before this video, which brings up questions, like what the source of their knowledge is, and how much they know, or think they know.

Cercatrova
08-20-2011, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
I don't think that that's the same thing at all as seeing a memory occur in a very distinctive place that corroborates with what we know about where humans probably first came from in real life.
Indeed, but this video really does not necessarily imply that this is where humans originated. We know nothing about TWCB. We do not know if they lived solely in this area or had widespread cities. Was this their capital? a small "outpost"? an Industrial centre? We do not know how much time was between when this memory ocurred and when humans were "created".
There is, possibly one small hint in the "Assassin's Creed Universe" video, that "The Truth" is placed around 1900-2000 years BC. But relying on that number is tenuous at best, right now.
Bottom line, I'm not saying you are wrong, but it's a bit of an assumption.

Calvarok
08-20-2011, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Cercatrova:
Granted, there are some facts that pertain solely to the game which we have no information on.
1. When did the war between TWCB and "humans" begin, and end?
2. How long before that did TWCB create "humans"?
3. How much did humans change, or "evolve" during that time?
4. How much do the Templars/Abstergo know about "The Truth"? Obviously they have seen the "Truth" memory, but the letter regarding "The Truth" about humanity (in my previous post) is well nearly 1 decade before this video, which brings up questions, like what the source of their knowledge is, and how much they know, or think they know.

Well from the letter we can judge that Evolution does not exist in the AC universe. At least, not in the sense that a species can totally change into another one, or get mutant powers like in Xmen.
It may be that in the AC universe, Evolution exists for species that have been created naturally. Ie not humans.

LightRey
08-20-2011, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cercatrova:
Sometimes, yes, but we have to go on what information we have.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> January 3, 1997

I'm writing in response to your concerns about the rising alarm in the press and the scientific community. The lack of a transitional ancestor from archaic hominids to modern mankind (Homo Sapiens) is no longer safe. As you wrote, we have to act.

We can't let the truth get out, they'll find out about the artifacts. It will cause too much disruption, too much chaos. Bury our constructed skeletons near Tim White's expedition in Ethiopia. We'll give them their missing link.

The birth of humanity. The truth makes me sick.


As poodle says, they do manipulate events. Also, we have to accept Ubisoft takes some liberty, which is completely acceptable. Not every person dies as "true" history records it, or when, for that matter. This is core to the story of this game. I would argue it is an important part of what makes it great.

As an aside, this letter above, refers to Tim D. White, I quote "In 1994, White discovered what was then the oldest known human ancestor: 4.4 million-year-old Ar. ramidus. Found near the Awash River in Ethiopia, an almost complete fossilized female skeleton named "Ardi" took nearly 15 years to prepare publication of the description." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think that that's the same thing at all as seeing a memory occur in a very distinctive place that corroborates with what we know about where humans probably first came from in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly, the way it happened was indeed much different in the AC universe than what we believe it to be here, but the place it happened appears to be the same. Besides, faking a missing link between humans and apes is one thing, covering up where humans came from is something different entirely.

Cercatrova
08-20-2011, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cercatrova:
Granted, there are some facts that pertain solely to the game which we have no information on.
1. When did the war between TWCB and "humans" begin, and end?
2. How long before that did TWCB create "humans"?
3. How much did humans change, or "evolve" during that time?
4. How much do the Templars/Abstergo know about "The Truth"? Obviously they have seen the "Truth" memory, but the letter regarding "The Truth" about humanity (in my previous post) is well nearly 1 decade before this video, which brings up questions, like what the source of their knowledge is, and how much they know, or think they know.

Well from the letter we can judge that Evolution does not exist in the AC universe. At least, not in the sense that a species can totally change into another one, or get mutant powers like in Xmen.
It may be that in the AC universe, Evolution exists for species that have been created naturally. Ie not humans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would tend to agree with that notion. Quite simply, much, but of course, not all history as we know it, recorded, scienctific and biblical, in "reality" is pesented in the Assassin's Creed Universe as being wrong, be it entirely or just in the minor details. I definitely get the feeling (But have no real definite corroboration at this moment, that in Assassin's Creed, evolution does not exist, at least for humans.

Cercatrova
08-20-2011, 11:56 PM
Is there a timeline anywhere of all known major events within the "Assassin's Creed" universe, chronologically, which are particularly pertinant to TWCB and the early humans? and events up to Ezio's time would be great too, if it is out there.

LightRey
08-21-2011, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Cercatrova:
Is there a timeline anywhere of all known major events within the "Assassin's Creed" universe, chronologically, which are particularly pertinant to TWCB and the early humans? and events up to Ezio's time would be great too, if it is out there.
There might be something on the wikia, I dunno.

Turkiye96
08-21-2011, 03:18 AM
well i dont think its mount ararat as when you look at the mountain in the video and look at a bunch of pics of the mt. you can see its not the same shape, so we are still to find out where it is