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View Full Version : What about Spitfire XII ?



Glen44
01-31-2006, 08:29 AM
This aircraft was only built 100 numbers, but at same time Luftwaffe also had weak force on west line.
In 1943,the best a/c of RAF at low altitude is Spitfire XII with 12 lbs.

Its sealevel speed is 566km/h which is quite competitive with 190A4 A5 in the whole 1943.

Glen44
01-31-2006, 08:29 AM
This aircraft was only built 100 numbers, but at same time Luftwaffe also had weak force on west line.
In 1943,the best a/c of RAF at low altitude is Spitfire XII with 12 lbs.

Its sealevel speed is 566km/h which is quite competitive with 190A4 A5 in the whole 1943.

JG53Frankyboy
01-31-2006, 08:35 AM
it would need a new 3D model, so forgett it.

JG52Karaya-X
01-31-2006, 08:37 AM
Hmm, isnt our Spitfire Mk.IXc and e (both L.F. and normal F.) faster than 566 at sea level!?

IMO a Spitfire Mk.XVI would be more interesting than the 25lbs boost IX we are getting (and isnt the external almost the same!?)

JG53Frankyboy
01-31-2006, 08:43 AM
well, also the most Mk.XVI had the bubble canopy - the first ones did not.
and they were actually Mk.IX with an Merlin266 - an Packard build Merlin66 (in general).


here on the boards, some made the suggestion to name the comming 25lb boost Spitfire as Mk.XVI to avoid confusion in the Spitfire Marks of the game.

and actual sealevel Spitfire inGame speeds were tested there
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6471086404

none is reaching 566 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3.JG51_Stecher
01-31-2006, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
Hmm, isnt our Spitfire Mk.IXc and e (both L.F. and normal F.) faster than 566 at sea level!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, they are 533 and 528(CW).

HellToupee
01-31-2006, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 3.JG51_Stecher:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
Hmm, isnt our Spitfire Mk.IXc and e (both L.F. and normal F.) faster than 566 at sea level!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, they are 533 and 528(CW). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the 25lbs should just equal it but the XII was 1942 generally superior to anything at low alts, however most combat was above the heights at which the engine could perform and the LW generally wernt interested in comming down and meeting them so low prodution numbers.

horseback
01-31-2006, 10:25 AM
I thought the Mark XII was pressed into service as a partial cure for the 'tip and run' raiders of '42-'43. The function of 'technology demonstrator' for the Griffon engine was a sidelight.

by the way, there appears to be some confusion between the Mk XIV (14), which was a Griffon Spit with the multistage supercharger, and the Mk XVI (16), which was essentially a MK IX with a Packard Merlin (V-1650) instead of a Rolls Royce Merlin.

Because one of these (Packard, I believe) was built to SAE standards and the other was built to metric (?) standards, different tooling was required to work on the engines, and the two types were therefore ***igned to seperate squadrons. Externally, the Mk XVI was identical to its' Mk IX contemporary models.

cheers

horseback

p1ngu666
01-31-2006, 10:30 AM
they where bulit side by side on the production line, think its similer to lanc mk1 and mk3, basicaly the same.

for tip and run, the MKXII would be great http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

handled alot like a vb too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

luftluuver
01-31-2006, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
Because one of these (Packard, I believe) was built to SAE standards and the other was built to metric (?) standards, different tooling was required to work on the engines, and the two types were therefore ***igned to seperate squadrons. Externally, the Mk XVI was identical to its' Mk IX contemporary models.

cheers

horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different engineering standards but it was not metric. The British used the BA standard. The Americans measured across the flat of the nuts/bolts but the British measured across the points for the wrench size.

ImpStarDuece
01-31-2006, 03:15 PM
The Spitfire XII was a basically a Mk Vc airframe mated to a 1,735 hp Griffon III engine, with a 2 speed, 1 stage supercharger. Speed was 345-350 mph at seal-level, 370-375 mph at 5,000 feet and 395-400 mph at 18,000 feet.

Spitfire XII production can be split up into two sections; the first 40 or so airframes had the Mk Vc airframe and Griffon III, the other 60 or so had the stronger Mk VIII airframe, retractable tailwheel and the slightly improved Griffon IV, running at a lower reduction gear ratio and used a new Rotol propellor, which improved climb performance.

Service entry was in February 1943, with 41 Squadron, who conducted their first operations with the type in early April. First victory was a Ju-88 on April 17th.

The only other Mk XII unit was 91 Squadron, who began conversion in April and operations with the type in May, 1943. They had early sucess with the type, chasing down 6 FW-190s who attacked Folkstone on May 25th, claiming all 6 as destroyed for no loss in their own ranks.

The Mk. XII was about 20-25 mph faster on the deck than a standard F. Mk IX and slightly better in a climb to 10,000 feet. When the improved L.F. Mk. IX with the Merlin 66 and dropped full throttle eights, started operating around June/July 1943, that speed advantage dipped to around 10 mph and the XII was around 30 seconds slower to 10,000 feet.

Compared to the LF IX we have in the game now, a Mk XII would be:

10 mph faster from 0-8,000 feet
15 mph SLOWER from 8,000-15,000 feet
5 mph faster from 15,000-19,000 feet
Slower at all heights above 20,000 feet.

Climb would depend on the engine installation (Griffon III or Griffon IV) but it would be generally inferior in sustained climb, but slightly better in a zoom climb. The XII was actually one of the worst climbing Spitfire marks.

VW-IceFire
01-31-2006, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
The Spitfire XII was a basically a Mk Vc airframe mated to a 1,735 hp Griffon III engine, with a 2 speed, 1 stage supercharger. Speed was 345-350 mph at seal-level, 370-375 mph at 5,000 feet and 395-400 mph at 18,000 feet.

Spitfire XII production can be split up into two sections; the first 40 or so airframes had the Mk Vc airframe and Griffon III, the other 60 or so had the stronger Mk VIII airframe, retractable tailwheel and the slightly improved Griffon IV, running at a lower reduction gear ratio and used a new Rotol propellor, which improved climb performance.

Service entry was in February 1943, with 41 Squadron, who conducted their first operations with the type in early April. First victory was a Ju-88 on April 17th.

The only other Mk XII unit was 91 Squadron, who began conversion in April and operations with the type in May, 1943. They had early sucess with the type, chasing down 6 FW-190s who attacked Folkstone on May 25th, claiming all 6 as destroyed for no loss in their own ranks.

The Mk. XII was about 20-25 mph faster on the deck than a standard F. Mk IX and slightly better in a climb to 10,000 feet. When the improved L.F. Mk. IX with the Merlin 66 and dropped full throttle eights, started operating around June/July 1943, that speed advantage dipped to around 10 mph and the XII was around 30 seconds slower to 10,000 feet.

Compared to the LF IX we have in the game now, a Mk XII would be:

10 mph faster from 0-8,000 feet
15 mph SLOWER from 8,000-15,000 feet
5 mph faster from 15,000-19,000 feet
Slower at all heights above 20,000 feet.

Climb would depend on the engine installation (Griffon III or Griffon IV) but it would be generally inferior in sustained climb, but slightly better in a zoom climb. The XII was actually one of the worst climbing Spitfire marks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the information. I had never seen it put into context before...very interesting indeed! I think the +25lb Boost will give us some options in the late war 2nd TAF style of operation. Its still no XIV...that thing is the ultimate...and I think it just looks cool...but nonetheless I'm happy with anything.

Glen44
01-31-2006, 08:56 PM
Spitfire XIV is not the ultimate, we have Spitfire F 21 (some of them with counter-rotating propellers )before VE day.

Since 109K4 at 1.98ATA and 45version la7 3xb20 are ready, why can't we get SpitfireF21 theoretically? That is the ultimate BnZ ---Hit and Run a/c with 4*hispano!

We need more "Alex of Tempest" for Spitfire F21. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif