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XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 07:20 PM
Look here:

http://pub142.ezboard.com/fwarbirdsforumfrm4.showMessage?topicID=4.topic

Very sad story for the Finish people /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I just hope the aircraft will stay in a museum with its correct colors and not be restored to flying status by a meeting pilot and crashed the following week!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 07:20 PM
Look here:

http://pub142.ezboard.com/fwarbirdsforumfrm4.showMessage?topicID=4.topic

Very sad story for the Finish people /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I just hope the aircraft will stay in a museum with its correct colors and not be restored to flying status by a meeting pilot and crashed the following week!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:04 PM
hmmm, interesting about US Navy claiming all USA made planes as its own. Nice read.

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:17 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- hmmm, interesting about US Navy claiming all USA
- made planes as its own. Nice read.

i feel like they (USA) clame every old warbird being their.
just look how many german planes they have.
the only Me262 germany, being the home of the first jet plane, has is one they got from swiss. its displayed at the Deutsche Museum in Munich.

anyway, thank you for informating us by posting this link.

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:18 PM
There seems to be some confusion over whether or not the Brewsters were supplied under lend-lease, or sold outright by Brewester. AFAIK, Brewster SOLD the planes to Finland. Under such sale, the Brewster should rightfully belong to the Finnish people.

I have a feeling something got messed up in the translation, or someone just doesn't understand the nature of the transaction, probably in their haste to acuse the Americans of being self serving. There's more to this story, obviously.

The US Navy has bigger concerns than who owns an 60+ year old fighter probably pulled out of a lake.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:19 PM
DeBaer.534 wrote:

- i feel like they (USA) clame every old warbird being
- their.
- just look how many german planes they have.
- the only Me262 germany, being the home of the first
- jet plane, has is one they got from swiss. its
- displayed at the Deutsche Museum in Munich.
-
- anyway, thank you for informating us by posting this
- link.


You mean captured?



Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:36 PM
SkyChimp wrote:
-
- You mean captured?

captured umm, loot yes... war is over, you dont keep POWs do you?
oh i forgot, you cant impose an admission fee on them.

also, its a part of germany's history, they should give them back, or lend them countinously.

but i guess its also about americans pride to have won the war...

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:40 PM
DeBaer.534 wrote:
-
-
- i feel like they (USA) clame every old warbird being
- their.
- just look how many german planes they have.
- the only Me262 germany, being the home of the first
- jet plane, has is one they got from swiss. its
- displayed at the Deutsche Museum in Munich.
-
- anyway, thank you for informating us by posting this
- link.
-
-

Gee, wonder who scrapped out those piles of planes sitting in the junk yards of Germany for several years after the war. Must have been those damn Americans again./i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 11:43 PM
DeBaer.534 wrote:
-
-- also, its a part of germany's history,


Also part of the age old worldwide tradition: To the victor goes the spoils.


Of course...the Jews would surely like their money and jewelry back too.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:03 AM
DeBaer.534 wrote:

- captured umm, loot yes... war is over, you dont keep
- POWs do you?
- oh i forgot, you cant impose an admission fee on
- them.
-
- also, its a part of germany's history, they should
- give them back, or lend them countinously.
-
- but i guess its also about americans pride to have
- won the war...

DeBaer, maybe you ought to consider Germany forunate that it still exists as a country. Those damned Americans were pretty insistant on not being to hard on Germany after the war, despite the demands of other allies. Or doesn't you German pride allow you to admit that?



Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg


Message Edited on 10/27/0302:05AM by SkyChimp

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:08 AM
Zyzbot wrote:
-
- DeBaer.534 wrote:
--
--- also, its a part of germany's history,
-
-
- Also part of the age old worldwide tradition: To the
- victor goes the spoils.
-
-
- Of course...the Jews would surely like their money
- and jewelry back too.
-
-

umm, the Jews got their own country shortly after war, and my parents and in some time also me are still paying to them by the taxes, German government gives large amounts compensation to Israel, just to inform you...

almost every country has the major part of it's airplanes (and other war equipment) in their own museums, even the losers (Italy, Rumania).

and dont think im a nazi, i hate these b'stards for doing that to the world, jews and their heirs (e.g. me, though i have czech roots).



Message Edited on 10/26/03 11:13PM by DeBaer.534

Message Edited on 10/26/0311:14PM by DeBaer.534

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:12 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
- DeBaer.534 wrote:
-
-- captured umm, loot yes... war is over, you dont keep
-- POWs do you?
-- oh i forgot, you cant impose an admission fee on
-- them.
--
-- also, its a part of germany's history, they should
-- give them back, or lend them countinously.
--
-- but i guess its also about americans pride to have
-- won the war...
-
- DeBaer, maybe you ought to consider Germany forunate
- that it still exists as a country. Those damned
- Americans were pretty insistant on not being to hard
- on Germany after the war, despite the demands of
- other allies. Or doesn't you German pride allow you
- to admit that?
-
chimp, im not pride on germany, and i know america was pretty indulgent with germany. i also know their great help to westberlin and germany in general after war, the "Luftbruecke" and so on. but in some parts america is just a bit "arrogant".

and, there exists nothing like german pride. german people are broken. you will hardly hear someone singing or fizzling our national anthem just for fun, because he fears to be called a nazi.

oh and i never said "damned americans", that was you.



Message Edited on 10/26/0311:27PM by DeBaer.534

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:34 AM
DeBaer.534 wrote:

- chimp, im not pride on germany, and i know america
- was pretty indulgent with germany. i also know their
- great help to westberlin and germany in general
- after war, the "Luftbruecke" and so on. but in some
- parts america is just a bit "arrogant".
-
- and, there exists nothing like german pride. german
- people are broken. you will hardly hear someone
- singing or fizzling our national anthem just for
- fun, because he fears to be called a nazi.
-
- oh and i never said "damned americans", that was
- you.


You said earlier that the planes we "looted" are part of German history. Well, my friend, they are American history as well. Ever think of that?

And when you say Americans are arrogant, a long hard look at yourselves may be overdue.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:47 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
-
-
- You said earlier that the planes we "looted" are
- part of German history. Well, my friend, they are
- American history as well. Ever think of that?
-
- And when you say Americans are arrogant, a long hard
- look at yourselves may be overdue.

yes, but america took all they could get. and um, mustangs and b17s and so on are also part of germanys history.
we have neither.

and ourselves...arrogant?
what thing are you referring to?
if you are referring to my postings, please say yourself, not yourselves, im just one individual, not speaking for the whole population.
but you will barely find such tolerant kind like me, i know some of my people start swearing the moment you say bf109 was not the best ww2 plane.

i meant by particular arrogance of american e.g. the thing that their navy claims the f2 as being their property.
brave finnish pilots fought their damn hard defensive war against the russians in this bird.

man, i hope you did notice my two earlier replies where attemps to clarify the thing and make you understand i dont want to say germany is a super country but disprivileged or something like this.



Message Edited on 10/26/0311:51PM by DeBaer.534

ZG77_Nagual
10-27-2003, 12:53 AM
It's true - as a nation - if not as individuals - america is arrogant. "listening only to those you agree with is a recipe for destruction" Be sure. The day America stops being receptive to criticism - is the day from which you can mark it's downfall.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:05 AM
DeBaer.534 wrote:
- -
- i meant by particular arrogance of american e.g. the
- thing that their navy claims the f2 as being their
- property.
- brave finnish pilots fought their damn hard
- defensive war against the russians in this bird.
-

I saw no proof in the article that the US Navy claimed the plane. I only saw a post from someone who said that...without posting proof of the alleged claim.

That said...If the plane was sold to Finland there can be no US Navy claim. Finland apparently lost the plane in Russian territory. Absent an agreement between Russia and Finland over such things it becomes totally up to the Russians what they do with it now.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:10 AM
DeBaer.534 wrote:

- yes, but america took all they could get. and um,
- mustangs and b17s and so on are also part of
- germanys history.
- we have neither.

Took? Was your land taken? Was you country rebuilt? Did the U.S. keep ordinary German soldiers prisoners for decades? Was Germany permittied to rebuild its armed forces? Was Germany give the right of self-determination? None of that stuff had to happen. None of it. And if certain allies had their way, it wouldn't have happened.



- and ourselves...arrogant?
- what thing are you referring to?
- if you are referring to my postings, please say
- yourself, not yourselves, im just one individual,
- not speaking for the whole population.
- but you will barely find such tolerant kind like me,
- i know some of my people start swearing the moment
- you say bf109 was not the best ww2 plane.
- i meant by particular arrogance of american e.g. the
- thing that their navy claims the f2 as being their
- property.
- brave finnish pilots fought their damn hard
- defensive war against the russians in this bird.
-
- man, i hope you did notice my two earlier replies
- where attemps to clarify the thing and make you
- understand i dont want to say germany is a super
- country but disprivileged or something like this.


Your comment was an insult.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:17 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
- Took? Was your land taken? Was you country
- rebuilt? Did the U.S. keep ordinary German soldiers
- prisoners for decades? Was Germany permittied to
- rebuild its armed forces? Was Germany give the
- right of self-determination? None of that stuff
- had to happen. None of it. And if certain allies
- had their way, it wouldn't have happened.

calm down, i spoke about "all planes". i already said that i see america was indulgent and a good help to germany after war. america can be great, but great things can throw great shadows, i hope you know what i mean.


- Your comment was an insult.
-

if you feel like this, im sorry.i did never intend to insult you. just wanted to say my opinion, what i did.
would you agree with a cease fire? or do you want a
unconditional capitulation?

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:22 AM
"In the winter of 2001-02, this promising note appeared on the Commerce Business Daily website: "The Naval Inventory Control Point (NAVICP) Philadelphia is proposing to acquire a Brewster Buffalo (F2A-1) on behalf of the National Museum of Naval Aviation (NMNA) through the Navy's museum exchange program. In exchange, the NAVICP will trade three (3) stricken P3 aircraft currently located at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Az. The exchange will proceed on or after 06 Dec 2001."

http://www.danford.net/372.htm



I have searched that entire website. I find no evidence of a claim of ownership by the US Navy.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:33 AM
DeBaer.534 wrote:
- or do you want a
- unconditional capitulation?

If you capitulate unconditionally, does that mean I can take your wallet?

All's well, mate /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:37 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
-
- DeBaer.534 wrote:
-- or do you want a
-- unconditional capitulation?
-
- If you capitulate unconditionally, does that mean I
- can take your wallet?
-
- All's well, mate

no, i'd rather keep my wallet, need it to pay the taxes. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
ok then, peace.

Regards, DeBaer.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:46 AM
BTW, do Germans really get 13 weeks of vacation from work?

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:55 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
- BTW, do Germans really get 13 weeks of vacation from
- work?
-
- Regards,
-
- SkyChimp
-


huh, no, not that much.

let me think

5 or 6 weeks in summer + 1-2 weeks around christmas.
paid.
thats "all"

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:58 AM
Sounds like an American teacher's schedule.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:59 AM
here in u.s were lucky to get 2 weeks,

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_sniper2.gif
U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:47 AM
eep @ germans with no national pride etc
i think there was justification for not wanting germany tobe armed again
im not saying it was right or wrong, but there was a reason