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View Full Version : Tactic that won me the day



Jex_TG
03-24-2005, 07:29 AM
I'm no air ace, that's for sure, but recently, since playing PF I've found that I'm increasingly interested to learn more about ACM. I have Shaw's book (anyone recommend any others?), have read lot's online and started putting them into practice.

I started flying PF online and did not fair too well. Well, against the decent pilots anyway. I still got kills over the newbie guys (after all, I'm not that bad), but I wanted to improve.

Of course, as anyone who's ever studied this subject, ACM is not a small topic. But in little pieces does understanding come.

On my way back to base, returning from a successful bombing run against Japanese shipping (on the warbirds server, stand alone - HL), I picked up a trailer. It was an A6M, and I was in a P40E-1941. I thought that I would just go full throttle, and RTB. But in an earlier game, doing just that got me shot on final.

Now I wasn't sure, but I was thinking that my P40 probably had a beefier engine than the A6, especially in the climb. So I risked it and brought the nose up to about 10-15 degs. I made a 500m climb and then quickly reversed my course back on the bandit, careful to keep the height I had gained.

I could see that he hadn't followed me up, and by now I had gained back the speed I had lost in the climb. I felt very confident as this stage.

On seeing me come back towards him, He then tried to climb to reach me, but now we were close to each other and turning. Then I saw him spin a little - he had stalled. He recovered but turned away from me, allowing me in on his six, and as he was still slow, provided an almost static target.

I waited until I was close enough and let rip with the guns. In one small burst I saw his wing come off, and his aircraft burst into flames. I was quite surprised because my gunnery skills are next to useless, but this day they prevailed.

The kill was nice, but coming up with the idea and playing it through and seeing it work was really great. It's also great to see that my understanding is increasing in the ACM area. A month ago and I wouldn't have thought to do this.

So to conclude, what's that saying? "Fighter pilots aren't born, they're taught"? Something like that but the point is, dogfighting really is a knowledge game. Flying skills don't really come into play here as I understand it, because if you don't know your plane, and you're enemies, or what energy is, how to keep it, etc, then you will find yourself being blown out the sky.

For me this experience reinforced my (new) belief that knowledge is the key to a good dogfighter http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jex_TG
03-24-2005, 07:29 AM
I'm no air ace, that's for sure, but recently, since playing PF I've found that I'm increasingly interested to learn more about ACM. I have Shaw's book (anyone recommend any others?), have read lot's online and started putting them into practice.

I started flying PF online and did not fair too well. Well, against the decent pilots anyway. I still got kills over the newbie guys (after all, I'm not that bad), but I wanted to improve.

Of course, as anyone who's ever studied this subject, ACM is not a small topic. But in little pieces does understanding come.

On my way back to base, returning from a successful bombing run against Japanese shipping (on the warbirds server, stand alone - HL), I picked up a trailer. It was an A6M, and I was in a P40E-1941. I thought that I would just go full throttle, and RTB. But in an earlier game, doing just that got me shot on final.

Now I wasn't sure, but I was thinking that my P40 probably had a beefier engine than the A6, especially in the climb. So I risked it and brought the nose up to about 10-15 degs. I made a 500m climb and then quickly reversed my course back on the bandit, careful to keep the height I had gained.

I could see that he hadn't followed me up, and by now I had gained back the speed I had lost in the climb. I felt very confident as this stage.

On seeing me come back towards him, He then tried to climb to reach me, but now we were close to each other and turning. Then I saw him spin a little - he had stalled. He recovered but turned away from me, allowing me in on his six, and as he was still slow, provided an almost static target.

I waited until I was close enough and let rip with the guns. In one small burst I saw his wing come off, and his aircraft burst into flames. I was quite surprised because my gunnery skills are next to useless, but this day they prevailed.

The kill was nice, but coming up with the idea and playing it through and seeing it work was really great. It's also great to see that my understanding is increasing in the ACM area. A month ago and I wouldn't have thought to do this.

So to conclude, what's that saying? "Fighter pilots aren't born, they're taught"? Something like that but the point is, dogfighting really is a knowledge game. Flying skills don't really come into play here as I understand it, because if you don't know your plane, and you're enemies, or what energy is, how to keep it, etc, then you will find yourself being blown out the sky.

For me this experience reinforced my (new) belief that knowledge is the key to a good dogfighter http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
03-24-2005, 08:23 AM
Excellent story. Yeah, thinking through your next motions can really be helpful. Thankfully in your instance, the Zero didn't think to climb to beat you...a Zero doesn't have as powerful an engine but its much lighter and climbs much better than the P-40. Nonetheless, you got into a position of advantage and won the day.

Well done!

Waldo.Pepper
03-24-2005, 08:42 AM
Knowledge is power!

Good post man. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Blutarski2004
03-24-2005, 09:05 AM
I'm guessing that your climb (even at 10-15 deg zoom) was too subtle for him to detect from the distance at which he was following. He probably only realized that you held altitude advantage when you turned back and got close to him. Very cool technique - worth thinking about.

And nice job making that Zero driver pay for his maneuvering mistake.

VF51_Flatspin
03-24-2005, 10:00 AM
That Zeke made a fatal mistake when he tried to make up for his altitude deficiency when you were already "in" on him. It's unlikely anything could have saved him at that point.

This is a great example of how most planes go down in combat - the losing pilot made a mistake, and the winner exploited it.

Well done Jex_TG!

Jex_TG
03-24-2005, 10:20 AM
It's the first time I've actually used a technique, and been able to appreciate the mistake made by my opponent, and then capitalise on that. It's nice to know I'm learning - thanks for your comments guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF-214_Remus
03-24-2005, 10:44 AM
yes but on any other day with a zero pilot with half a brain the next time you try that move he will blow you into a million pieces.. DO NOT do that move against a zero. Not smart to count on the other guy to be a noob.

Stiglr
03-24-2005, 01:58 PM
I've flown a lot online and have noticed a few things that separate the (relatively few) good pilots from the (much larger group of) idiots.

The one telltale sign is the guy that just points his nose at you and bores in "for the kill" no matter how bad his disadvantage is. I get many kills by simply having and exploiting an altitude advantage, by letting the guys with hair on fire climb up into me, get down next to stall speed, and then I jump 'em. The only thing that can save them at this point is the sim's lack of energy bleed and proper stall characteristics, which can sometimes snatch that advantage away from you.

I have never understood why so many fly right into a situation they will lose 90% of the time. Many of these same folks think it's a 'waste of time' to take off in the opposite direction as the enemy airfield, and get some altitude and position before going looking for trouble. Nope, they do the same thing every sortie, take off in the most obvious direct beeline towards the nearest enemy base, and never higher than 1km altitude.

Maybe it's just me, but I think, over the course of a flight simming hour, they waste much more time replaning after each ignominious death. If they'd invest what? 10 minutes grabbing a little, so they have a chance to survive an encounter or pick and choose their battles, they might find the majority of that hour spent flying ONE successful sortie.
==========

As for this particular episode, Remus is right. The Zero pilot was a real noob. A Zero has such a huge climb rate advantage over a P-40 that he can outclimb it and succeed even with a few mistakes. And, if the moment of truth happens after both planes are low on energy and near stall speed... even MORE advantage to the Zero.

The ONLY way a P-40 can hope to survive a one on one with a Zero is with a big speed advantage at the start of the engagement, or to get a head-on situation, in which his rugged mount stands to do better on average than the fragile Zero. In a multi-bogie, swirling dogfight, a P-40 has more opportunity to T&B a bit, because he and his buddies can kill Zeros with quick snapshots and drag-n-bags, while the Zeros need to get good, high percentage shots with the cannon to knock down the P-40s; shots they may not be able to commit to, because while they do this, another P-40 might appear behind them.

han freak solo
03-25-2005, 10:32 PM
D@mn Stiglr!! That is top secret information you've just given to the enemy!!! Shhh!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Stiglr
03-26-2005, 12:51 PM
I'm not really that worried. It's a matter of historical record, for one thing.

For another, your average P-40 driver is only a fan of the plane because it "has a shark mouth on it", and with such shallow motivation, is also the "never fly higher than 1km' type of pilot. He doesn't have the patience or the common sense to get any alt, or not to climb up into waiting Zeros.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TooMuchCheese
03-26-2005, 03:39 PM
Now you're really letting the cat out of the bag......****.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

BBB_Hyperion
03-27-2005, 06:28 AM
I wouldnt worry about these 1 km pilots no danger that they read such long text to end .)

han freak solo
03-27-2005, 02:04 PM
I like the P-40s, mostly the B/C, because of the kind of "underdog" status it seems to have had in WWII. Same reason I don't like the P-51D so much, being too perfect.

Plus, the P-40B/Cs (to me at least) are the ultimate early war "symbol" of American Fighting planes. That AVG shark mouth just made it standout to the masses, me included.

Yeah, airplanes such as the Brewster Buffalo might have been more of an underdog, but it's just too d@mn ugly for me to look at. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

BaldieJr
03-27-2005, 03:31 PM
I bounced stiglr once while he was low and slow.

lronSight
03-27-2005, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
[...]
For another, your average P-40 driver is only a fan of the plane because it "has a shark mouth on it", [...]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahaha, shark mouth.

Sterf21
03-27-2005, 04:26 PM
What's that ACM all about ???

By the way, I'm also a learning 'noob' and since today, I quite understand what the tactics are when you're flying a 190.

atomicali
03-27-2005, 10:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sterf21:
What's that ACM all about ???

By the way, I'm also a learning 'noob' and since today, I quite understand what the tactics are when you're flying a 190. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ACM= Air Combat Manoeuvres.
Or, I suppose "how to stay alive and make sure the other guy doesn't"

JG54_Arnie
03-28-2005, 03:03 AM
Yeah, and its very nice when you have a boogy on your six, you make a manouvre of which you know he cant properly follow it and still tries. Makes yah chuckle sometimes, right before you go in for the finishing blow. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif