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SkyChimp
01-05-2008, 06:20 PM
Been gone for awhile and check in periodically for news on BoB. Is that thing any closer to being released?

SlowBurn68
01-05-2008, 06:34 PM
I don't know what to believe anymore. I personally think they're having severe technical issues/limitations that they're unable to overcome.

VW-IceFire
01-05-2008, 06:39 PM
Still in development...Oleg answers regular questions now over at the 1C forums (and not here). Lots of sky is falling type theories but not really much to go on except that there is quite a bit of progress behind the scenes.

major_setback
01-05-2008, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by SkyChimp:
Been gone for awhile and check in periodically for news on BoB. Is that thing any closer to being released?

Look at this thread:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=31801&postcount=511

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2039

Redwulf 32 - Nis
01-05-2008, 06:48 PM
With all the ballyhoo going on, it sounds to me that 1C is caught up in the "80% finished" trap. Happens more often than not to large projects, especially software projects. This is a well documented trap than can take considerable effort to get out of. Often due to the fact that the remaining work needed is not as interesting as when the project first started out - everybody on the team weaves around making excuses and not results. Takes a tough management to pull through.

My 2 re.

cya around

ElAurens
01-05-2008, 06:54 PM
It will be fine.

The sky is not falling.

An all new, state of the are game engine isn't born overnight.

Be sure.

Skychimp, any real news is at the 1C forum, not here. I suspect that SOW will not be distributed by UBI, hence the lack of updates here.

Deedsundone
01-06-2008, 01:03 AM
To qoute Clas Christian:If you wait for something good,it´s just delightful. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Copperhead311th
01-06-2008, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by Deedsundone:
To qoute Clas Christian:If you wait for something good,it´s just delightful. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hiyas Chimpster. how life treating ya?

DuxCorvan
01-06-2008, 04:39 AM
I'd say the SoW Doomsday Clock has been set back to eight minutes with the shy last development updates.

http://www.mediatechpro.com/gif_samples/mm3/clockT.gif

MajorBloodnok
01-06-2008, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
I'd say the SoW Doomsday Clock has been set back to eight minutes with the shy last development updates.

http://www.mediatechpro.com/gif_samples/mm3/clockT.gif Two weeks, surely?

Xiolablu3
01-06-2008, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
It will be fine.

The sky is not falling.

An all new, state of the are game engine isn't born overnight.

Be sure.

Skychimp, any real news is at the 1C forum, not here. I suspect that SOW will not be distributed by UBI, hence the lack of updates here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Oleg just has the 'it will be done when its done' attitutde, which is the best attitude when it comes to game development.

Its just a few forum users who dont understand what it takes to make a modern computer sim who are expectin git done overnight.

Please guys get this into your head :-

Each plane has 20x the detail, therefore each plane takes 20x the time.

The ground has 20x the tdetail, so it takes 20x the time.

etc etc.


When you are creating a complicated game engine from scratch, there really isnt much to show.

WHats he going to do? Show a screenshot of the lines of code used to calculate damage? Or post one which shows complicated code which calculates zoom climb? etc etc.

The graphics (ie screenshots) are just one small part of the game. Most of the work is invisible to us in thousands of lines of precise code..

Just let him get on with it in peace. The more time hes answering posts and creating screnshots, the longer its going to take

stansdds
01-06-2008, 05:01 AM
Hey SkyChimp! Storm of War is the same place it was two years ago, in development. Game stores put the anticipated release date at October 2007, November 2007, December 2007, January 2008, February 2008, March 2008... you get the idea. Based on Oleg's most recent answers to some questions, it probably won't be out until November/December 2008 at the earliest, possibly first quarter of 2009.

He has said it will support multi core CPU's, so a dual core rig will likely be the minimum for average settings.

That's just my opinion, take it for what it is worth.

Feathered_IV
01-06-2008, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Redwulf 32 - Nis:
With all the ballyhoo going on, it sounds to me that 1C is caught up in the "80% finished" trap. Happens more often than not to large projects, especially software projects. This is a well documented trap than can take considerable effort to get out of. Often due to the fact that the remaining work needed is not as interesting as when the project first started out - everybody on the team weaves around making excuses and not results. Takes a tough management to pull through.

My 2 re.

cya around


All evidence suggests that this would seem to be the case. Flashing the occasional two year old screenshot and calling it an update doesn't really inspire confidence.

I have much more hope for Knights of the Sky. The task is far more acheivable. SoW is too big a job for Oleg's little team. A shame, but there it is.

Mysticpuma2003
01-06-2008, 08:13 AM
Then again the same people who are complaining about the development time, will be the same ones complaining if it's released 'unfinished'!

Who'd be a games/sim developer!

Capt.LoneRanger
01-06-2008, 08:30 AM
80% finished?

Optimist.

M_Gunz
01-06-2008, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by SkyChimp:
Been gone for awhile and check in periodically for news on BoB. Is that thing any closer to being released?

Sure. All the time closer. Just not visibly so.

JadehawkII
01-06-2008, 08:39 AM
Here we go again...software development arm chair experts at it again. It's amazing how many tend to give out dead reckoning without the true facts. As it once again been said, Oleg will release this fight sim when it's done.

NEVER did Oleg say when he would have this sim done. NEVER. He has in the past given us some rough dates when he would tell us about certain aspects of the game, but never a release date.

Welcome back Skychimp! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
You will find far more information at 1C as that's where Oleg releases official information about BoB-SOW.
Although there has been no official release, I believe Oleg's company 1C Company will release BoB-SOW on it's own. That is MY opinion and not a rumor.

M_Gunz
01-06-2008, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Redwulf 32 - Nis:
With all the ballyhoo going on, it sounds to me that 1C is caught up in the "80% finished" trap. Happens more often than not to large projects, especially software projects. This is a well documented trap than can take considerable effort to get out of. Often due to the fact that the remaining work needed is not as interesting as when the project first started out - everybody on the team weaves around making excuses and not results. Takes a tough management to pull through.

My 2 re.

cya around

When you set out to create what never existed and put up deadlines ahead to suit wishes then
you're only asking for it. Unforeseen problems do occur and the team may have to go back and
redo whole parts to fit the solutions.
In the meantime you have management with only some idea of what is going on getting antsy and
being pushed by the money people who have no idea beyond "not ready yet". To prove their own
worth the managers start effing with the project, the specs and the team which creates nore
work while soaking up time over meetings where they demand to know what they can't understand
even when it is presented to them many times over. This demoralizes the team badly which only
slows things down more making the managers feel some kind of need to push for death spiral of
the entire project. Of course then the blame game gets played which makes things worse.

Take the Red Baron 2 development. Dynamix bit off too much at the start and ended up as part
of Sierra who just had to "get tough". As a result they ended up losing key people and the
vision of how the thing really worked, but they were able to mangle on through after a few
extra years. Before all that Dynamix was a very innovative development house, after that it
was closer to a corporate toy.

You want paint by numbers or build a road to the goal then you get uninspired mediocrity of
the Microsoft stripe. That's about what most management is good for.

SlowBurn68
01-06-2008, 11:46 AM
I wonder how the "it will be done when it's done" attitude goes over at Corporate UBI? I wish I could tell my boss that the report "will be done when it's done."

Redwulf 32 - Nis
01-06-2008, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
When you set out to create what never existed and put up deadlines ahead to suit wishes then
you're only asking for it. Unforeseen problems do occur and the team may have to go back and
redo whole parts to fit the solutions.
In the meantime you have management with only some idea of what is going on getting antsy and
being pushed by the money people who have no idea beyond "not ready yet". To prove their own
worth the managers start effing with the project, the specs and the team which creates nore
work while soaking up time over meetings where they demand to know what they can't understand
even when it is presented to them many times over. This demoralizes the team badly which only
slows things down more making the managers feel some kind of need to push for death spiral of
the entire project. Of course then the blame game gets played which makes things worse.

Take the Red Baron 2 development. Dynamix bit off too much at the start and ended up as part
of Sierra who just had to "get tough". As a result they ended up losing key people and the
vision of how the thing really worked, but they were able to mangle on through after a few
extra years. Before all that Dynamix was a very innovative development house, after that it
was closer to a corporate toy.

You want paint by numbers or build a road to the goal then you get uninspired mediocrity of
the Microsoft stripe. That's about what most management is good for.


I couldn't agree more with you Gunz, like they say - been there, done that.

I'll clarify what I mean by "tough management". It's not the "pointy haired boss" of Dilbert fame, the "I want results now or I'll fire you" thing nor the "Sierra tough guy" approach towards your team. Maybe my use of the word tough is inappropriate, what is needed to pull a project out of a slump is true leadership from management i.e. being just as smart (intelligent) as your team members, knowing exactly (preferably from own experience) where the hurdles are and finally using your power to remove these obstacles. In essence, act as a leader and not a Gantt chart checker. Think Kelly Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Johnson)

cya around

I_KG100_Prien
01-06-2008, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by SlowBurn68:
I wonder how the "it will be done when it's done" attitude goes over at Corporate UBI? I wish I could tell my boss that the report "will be done when it's done."

Who says UBI has their tendrils on the project?

HuninMunin
01-06-2008, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by SlowBurn68:
I wonder how the "it will be done when it's done" attitude goes over at Corporate UBI? I wish I could tell my boss that the report "will be done when it's done."

Ubisoft doesn't pay the bills for BoB.
Lord knows who does, but it ain't Ubi.

EDCF_Rama
01-06-2008, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by HuninMunin:
Ubisoft doesn't pay the bills for BoB.


You is wrong... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Redwulf 32 - Nis
01-06-2008, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by EDCF_Rama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
Ubisoft doesn't pay the bills for BoB.


You is wrong... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plz explain.....

EDCF_Rama
01-06-2008, 04:40 PM
Easy... Ubi DO pay for SoW:BoB dev, and this since a lot of time allready.

SkyChimp
01-09-2008, 05:39 PM
Thanks for all the answers. Looks like I don't need to upgrade the 'puter till '09. That's good.

Vevster
01-10-2008, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by EDCF_Rama:
Easy... Ubi DO pay for SoW:BoB dev, and this since a lot of time allready.

Yes.

That's the way a third party development works. And BoB:SOW is a 3P dev for UBI.

buddye1
01-10-2008, 10:49 AM
My experience with game development contracts is limited. I have only been invoved with 3.

The deal that we were offered by Publishers was simple (1) a set amount of $ up front with a deal to deliver a a certain date (2) a set % of the net per copy sales.

I would bet that Oleg (the developer) made a very simular deal with UBI.

If Oleg has spent the up front $ already as I expect (the cost of living in Moscow has sky rocketed), then he has a very serious money problem where his options to get additional funds may not be all that attractive.

If I am correct in my spectulation, then Oleg is looking for funding for SOW almost full time. He may have to give up something to get the funding that is not good for him in the long run.

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-10-2008, 12:05 PM
ibtl

major_setback
01-10-2008, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by buddye1:
My experience with game development contracts is limited. I have only been invoved with 3.

The deal that we were offered by Publishers was simple (1) a set amount of $ up front with a deal to deliver a a certain date (2) a set % of the net per copy sales.

I would bet that Oleg (the developer) made a very simular deal with UBI.

If Oleg has spent the up front $ already as I expect (the cost of living in Moscow has sky rocketed), then he has a very serious money problem where his options to get additional funds may not be all that attractive.

If I am correct in my spectulation, then Oleg is looking for funding for SOW almost full time. He may have to give up something to get the funding that is not good for him in the long run.

I have no experience at all in this field, but my worry (for quite some time now) is that money will run out before SoW:BoB is completed. As far as I see it that is the major potential threat to the project. I hope that I am wrong, and that the paid add-ons (and Sturmo' 1946) have helped the finances enough to see them (1c)through the project.

Rjel
01-10-2008, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by SkyChimp:
Thanks for all the answers. Looks like I don't need to upgrade the 'puter till '09. That's good.

But really, do you have any better feel for where the development cycle is now than before? I sure don't. Just a lot of opinions here from those who believe and nearly as many as those who don't. Nobody in this thread has a clue more than you do.

heywooood
01-10-2008, 08:55 PM
no answers- you just have to do what we always do...go to the source - in this case 1c games website and read what the developers are saying.

from what I can see they need alot more time, they will need a western distributor, and they are making good progress but are still a long way from release.

Kinda the same boat as Gennadich KotS project.

From what I have seen and surmise - both of these sims will be worked to completion and released...there is no reason to doubt it.

I'm kinda hoping that maybe FighterOps will release an FSX model like Gennadich did with their Dr1 triplane to show that they are still alive and to promote their sim....the boys @ GT were very savvy to do that IMO

Chivas
01-10-2008, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by buddye1:
My experience with game development contracts is limited. I have only been invoved with 3.

The deal that we were offered by Publishers was simple (1) a set amount of $ up front with a deal to deliver a a certain date (2) a set % of the net per copy sales.

I would bet that Oleg (the developer) made a very simular deal with UBI.

If Oleg has spent the up front $ already as I expect (the cost of living in Moscow has sky rocketed), then he has a very serious money problem where his options to get additional funds may not be all that attractive.

If I am correct in my spectulation, then Oleg is looking for funding for SOW almost full time. He may have to give up something to get the funding that is not good for him in the long run.

I would be worried if there had been no funds coming in since the first proposed release date of SOW for the end of 2005. In this time they have sold Pacific Fighters, Pe-2, and IL-2 1946, etc.

We know that Ubi had the contract to distribute SOW to the western market and put up front monies for its development. To me it seems their relationship has soured. Whether its just UBI trying to block any info and Oleg using IC forums to atleast give us some info, but somethings definitely up. It wouldn't bother me at all if IC distributed the game to the western market, but I'm sure UBI's lawyers would have something to say about that. Whatever the problem is, hopefully it doesn't further delay SOW.

No info = speculation

DuxCorvan
01-11-2008, 05:58 AM
I'm thinking of updating my rig with one of these: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
http://www.lenntech.com/images/Boiler%20FE%20images/boiler-schema.jpg

Bakelit
01-11-2008, 11:08 AM
I just hope SOW and Olegs team is okay.

The long development might make certain code modules or elements redundant and they might have to be redone. More work.

Look at "Theatre of War". A tactical RTS, was in development for a veeery long time, first to be released by Codemasters, now by Battlefront.

When the first screenies were shown years ago it was cutting edge. When it finally came to the market last spring it was okay, but nothing special anymore. The gameplay concept also is neither hardcore tactics nor classic healthbar RTS, more of a lonely hybrid.

Not that I think SOW will have outdated graphics, all I say is too long a development may actually harm a project. And if there was a direct competitor with about the same quality potential time would be very critical.

Capt.LoneRanger
01-11-2008, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Vevster:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EDCF_Rama:
Easy... Ubi DO pay for SoW:BoB dev, and this since a lot of time allready.

Yes.

That's the way a third party development works. And BoB:SOW is a 3P dev for UBI. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, actually SOW:BOB is not the developer for UBI and 1C is no longer either. Currently Atari is the one giving the money and I don't know if this decision was a good decision, considerung the red numbers on Atari's status, but that is not up to me to decide.

Anyway, according to official statements posted here, SoW:BoB and all further addons of SoW will still be released by UBI.

I can only imagine how difficult this is for Oleg and his team, especially since UBI still didn't officially announce SoW:BoB, nor gives any statement about the existence of such a product.

You should take that whole scenery into consideration, when begging Oleg for Updates. He's bound to contracts on this.

Chivas
01-11-2008, 11:32 AM
Unfortunately there are few competitors lining up to take advantage of this situation. If Oleg succeeds in doing the cinematic thing, then anyone else would be hard pressed to make the graphics any better.

At the moment BOB WOV is a great alternative for anyone wanting to experience the Battle of Britain now. Its continually evolving and anyone who hasn't tried it, are missing some very immersive combat flying.

buddye1
01-11-2008, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by major_setback:
I have no experience at all in this field, but my worry (for quite some time now) is that money will run out before SoW:BoB is completed. As far as I see it that is the major potential threat to the project. I hope that I am wrong, and that the paid add-ons (and Sturmo' 1946) have helped the finances enough to see them (1c)through the project.

I think that Oleg had a very good financial plan and technical plan when he started SOW and made his deal with the publisher but the plan was based on the then current cost of labor.

Unfortunately Moscow has had sky rocketing inflation (this is a fact based on my reading, only one link but many avaible if interested http://russophobe.blogspot.com/2006/08/inflation-eats-russians-alive-as.html . Oleg's cost have also sky rocketed which would have caused his financial planning to be totally invalid.

How does he then proceed? How does get new funding for SOW? He will need a new business plan (after his old one has been already reviewed and agreed to by his publisher). Can he possibly justify more copies being sold or a higher per copy price?

The forecast for inflation/recession is increasing. This is a very bad time to have a money issue in Russia/Moscow. Hope Oleg is as good a raising money as he is at building a good Flight Sim. He will be successful but he may require time and some good lawyers.

We can only hope for the best and wish him luck.

EDCF_Rama
01-11-2008, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by heywooood:
they will need a western distributor, and they are making good progress but are still a long way from release.

Wrong
They allready are on contract with a western distributor, it's Ubisoft, who's paying for the dev since the start.

trumper
01-12-2008, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by EDCF_Rama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
they will need a western distributor, and they are making good progress but are still a long way from release.

Wrong
They allready are on contract with a western distributor, it's Ubisoft, who's paying for the dev since the start. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Which then begs the question of why is Ubi keeping so quiet on any updates and developments?.
Surely if you have a good product coming out in the future you would want to be generating as much interest as possible for future sales and getting the product "wanted".
This continuing secrecy and lack of info from both parties does'nt inspire me to think all is well.
Very poor marketing and customer lack of information isn't the way to sell the game.

ElAurens
01-12-2008, 09:04 AM
Can you blame UBI/1C/Maddox for keeping things hush hush?

I can't.

I'm sure they are all really fed up with every major release of this product to date being stolen and released over the torrents days/weeks before the official anouncement.

Have you all forgotten how many sales of Pacific Fighters were lost because of all the illegal downloads?

I firmly believe that SOW is going to be groundbreaking in ways that will make the introduction of the Original IL2 seem like small time stuff. The publishers have every right to protect their investment.

Besides they really don't have to sell the new title to most of us anyway, do they? No. Most of us will buy it on the day of release and you know it.

So relax and enjoy the wonderful sim we still have.

buddye1
01-12-2008, 11:01 AM
Besides they really don't have to sell the new title to most of us anyway, do they? No. Most of us will buy it on the day of release and you know it.



Yes, all of us will quickly buy sow if our PC will run it.

Oleg needs all the SOW game sales he can get as Flight Sims are just not the big sellers like other action games but Flight Sims are very large and complex and costly to develop. With just the few 1000 sales from his very loyal customers, Oleg would loose money on the SOW project. Project sales and cost per unit is the key for any consumer product.

Good marketing and customer communication is just good business. Sounds like your have a security or protection concern about those that would steal SOW.

leitmotiv
01-12-2008, 11:11 AM
Silence is suicidal business practice. If 1C wants this baby to sell like IL-2 and all its offspring, they need to be pitching it 24 hours of the day like it will be the greatest thing since the wheel. What put 1C on the map was not selling another flight sim to the tiny crowd of perennial devotees. It was making a flight sim which grabbed the imaginations of those who usually buy GRAND THEFT AUTO games, and became well known to gamers at large.

If 1C wants to bat another out of the ballpark, they have to dump the madcap Stalinist security, and play the advertising game---and play it very well.

trumper
01-12-2008, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Can you blame UBI/1C/Maddox for keeping things hush hush?

I can't.

I'm sure they are all really fed up with every major release of this product to date being stolen and released over the torrents days/weeks before the official anouncement.

Have you all forgotten how many sales of Pacific Fighters were lost because of all the illegal downloads?

I firmly believe that SOW is going to be groundbreaking in ways that will make the introduction of the Original IL2 seem like small time stuff. The publishers have every right to protect their investment.

Besides they really don't have to sell the new title to most of us anyway, do they? No. Most of us will buy it on the day of release and you know it.

So relax and enjoy the wonderful sim we still have.

So who was/is responsible for putting out the pirate copies of Pacific Fighters for download?.I would like to think they have learnt some lessons and upgraded their security if it was that bad.
Surely updates on screenshots,info on time scales and little snippets of info regarding PC requirements and maybe just maybe some actual ingame video clips isn't alot to expect and also you are NOT going to be able to pirate copies from that.
I would'nt get TOO blas'e about "we will all buy it anyway" you know we will but what about 98% of gamers that have NEVER played a flight sim,they're are the ones that need targeting.All this hush hush really is'nt doing much for that part of the market.
This sim at the moment is the best worst kept secret out and all it does is increase speculation.
Oh well,i suppose it will be out when it's out, - - - oneday.

Chivas
01-12-2008, 12:15 PM
There is absolutely no point in advertising SOW at this point. People who use this argument are just interested in getting more info on the game. If and when SOW is near completion and all features are implemented, THAT is the time to start heavily advertising the product.
Oleg as part of our community liked to keep us informed as much as possible, but he doesn't have full control on what he can say. I'm surprised he says anything at all with the amount of whining about percieved "promises" in the past.
There are only two other combat flight sims in development worth mentioning. KOTS which stopped all info months ago, while looking at publisher options. FT "Flying Tigers" which issued an aircraft model for FSX, but thats it, we have heard absolutely nothing other than that. Information on SOW has been huge compared to what we know about FT.
Luckily we have IL-2 1946 and BOB WOV, both sims have been continually upgraded over the years. KOTS or SOW may make an appearance by the end of this year and all this wingeing will be forgotten.

knightflyte
01-12-2008, 12:18 PM
+1

leitmotiv
01-12-2008, 01:35 PM
Cloud Cuckoo Land. People do not buy that of which they know nothing. Anticipation is the basis of successful advertising. When the consumer has no idea about a product, they do not buy. When the consumer has no sense of anticipation about a product, they will have no interest. Microsoft correctly pitched FSX for months before its release, and then advertised it like a Lincoln Navigator on television. By release date, even Aunt Hilda knew what FSX was. If 1C carries on as they have, half the flight simmers will think BOB is something Shockwave released in 2005, as they do right now. Of course this is very good for Shockwave!

Chivas
01-12-2008, 02:10 PM
People have been using the advertising nonsense since 2005 in a vailed attempt to see more info on SOW. If UBI had listened to them SOW would have been heavily advertised for the last 3 years, putting SOW budget so far in the hole they would never have recovered.

I agree it would be nice to see a TV add when the time is right to start advertising. Not sure if it would be economically feasible, but hopefully it would be.

buddye1
01-13-2008, 12:15 PM
Unfortunately the world and Moscow's economic forcast for cost of living and inflation is poor for 2008.

Oleg's cost issues will just increase during 2008. It will be harder to pay his people's 2008 salary demands.

It is just very bad timing for SOW.

Chivas
01-13-2008, 12:43 PM
I agree the cost of living is high in Moscow but you have to be carefull on how its calibrated. Some of the rating systems are business orientated. High end Hotels, restaurants, and Entertainment is very expensive in Moscow for business travel, but the average Moscowvite can live frugally enough.

Vevster
01-14-2008, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
What put 1C on the map was not selling another flight sim to the tiny crowd of perennial devotees. It was making a flight sim which grabbed the imaginations of those who usually buy GRAND THEFT AUTO games, and became well known to gamers at large.


Comparing IL2 to GTA is dumb. IL2 has far fewer sales than GTA and really is a small game in terms of sales.
Advertising something not ready can be good business practise as it can be bad, depending on your target and circumstances.

Vevster
01-14-2008, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
[Well, actually SOW:BOB is not the developer for UBI and 1C is no longer either. Currently Atari is the one giving the money and I don't know if this decision was a good decision, considerung the red numbers on Atari's status, but that is not up to me to decide.

.

Sure SOW:BoB is not the developper, it's the game being released.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Do you have any source for "Atari is the one giving the money"?
Because I think you're confused about different things here. Atari & 1C made a deal that will have Atari distribute some 1C games in the US. A list was given, SOW:BoB is not part of that list.

I could give you the exact amount paid by Ubisoft to Oleg's company for the development of SOW:BoB....(but then, I would probably lose my job http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif)

Capt.LoneRanger
01-14-2008, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Vevster:
Do you have any source for "Atari is the one giving the money"?
Because I think you're confused about different things here. Atari & 1C made a deal that will have Atari distribute some 1C games in the US. A list was given, SOW:BoB is not part of that list.

I could give you the exact amount paid by Ubisoft to Oleg's company for the development of SOW:BoB....(but then, I would probably lose my job http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif)


Huh... I say Atari publishes games for 1C except for SoW:BoB and you say I'm mistaken because Atari publishes games for 1C and you can proof Sow:BoB is financed by UBI?

Er.... okay, I believe you... I think.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

JG53Frankyboy
01-14-2008, 06:48 AM
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=33886#post33886

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG52Uther
01-14-2008, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=33886#post33886

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Great! So does that mean mainland Europe gets it first,Russia soon after,the UK about 2 months later,the USA about 6 months to a year after that,and Australia not at all?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Vevster
01-14-2008, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Huh... I say Atari publishes games for 1C except for SoW:BoB and you say I'm mistaken because Atari publishes games for 1C and you can proof Sow:BoB is financed by UBI?

Er.... okay, I believe you... I think.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Well, you said: "Well, actually SOW:BOB is not the developer for UBI and 1C is no longer either. Currently Atari is the one giving the money and I don't know if this decision was a good decision, considerung the red numbers on Atari's status, but that is not up to me to decide."

Which is a very strange sentence (SOW:BoB not a developper for Ubi / 1C ??? WTF???) and you mention that Atari is giving the money (you didn't say "not for SOW:BoB"), hence my precisions....
If you know what you meant, fine, but I think it was not clearly written.

Vevster
01-14-2008, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=33886#post33886

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I dunno who said he/she couldn't order 1946 at Ubi shop in the US, but he/she might have done something wrong as I know they have in in inventory & sell some every month.
Even ordered 5 of them from a colleague for some fellow forumers (other forum and not at the eshop though...)

Capt.LoneRanger
01-14-2008, 07:59 AM
@ Vevster:

Well, I quoted your "And BoB:SOW is a 3P dev for UBI." whereas "dev" is usually and in this case most likely interpreted as "developer". Especially when I read the rest of your post.

After answering your post I made it clear that Atari has now a contract for publishing 1C products (hence: giving the money), but SoW:BoB will still be published by UBI since they have the rights on the label and the engine.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough or something. My English is not the best when I post while doing other stuff.

Vevster
01-14-2008, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
@ Vevster:

Well, I quoted your "And BoB:SOW is a 3P dev for UBI." whereas "dev" is usually and in this case most likely interpreted as "developer". Especially when I read the rest of your post.

After answering your post I made it clear that Atari has now a contract for publishing 1C products (hence: giving the money), but SoW:BoB will still be published by UBI since they have the rights on the label and the engine.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough or something. My English is not the best when I post while doing other stuff.


OK, I understand. No problem. english is not my mother language either.

Well 3P dev = Third Party development. As opposed to internal development. It's still considered as development usually, because the publisher has some (sometimes all) influence in the content of the game (depends also on who had the original idea, as you can have your game developped by a third Party if your teams are already booked on other projects etc...)
SOW:BoB is a third Partu development. It is not a deal of publishing (that's when a publisher just publish a game that has already been developped. Publisher has no say on the content)

Atari has a contract to publish SOME games, not all. This contract doesn't prevent UBI to publish other 1C games (either though publishing deals or 3rd Party ones) in the future -near or far - so your assertion that "Atari is giving the money" is a little over the top. Other publishers certainly give money to 1C and/or Maddox. Also, 1C is a publisher, so they "make their own money" if you wish...

Cheers

Capt.LoneRanger
01-14-2008, 10:21 AM
Sorry for missinterpreting your dev. I am active in different communities and usually "dev" means the developer(s). For your business it seems to have another meaning.

Well, back to the deal with Atari. From the articles I read it sounded like all future games from 1C will be published by Atari. is that true or is it actually more like "All future games by 1C will be published by Atari in the US" or something.

leitmotiv
01-14-2008, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Vevster:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
What put 1C on the map was not selling another flight sim to the tiny crowd of perennial devotees. It was making a flight sim which grabbed the imaginations of those who usually buy GRAND THEFT AUTO games, and became well known to gamers at large.


Comparing IL2 to GTA is dumb. IL2 has far fewer sales than GTA and really is a small game in terms of sales.
Advertising something not ready can be good business practise as it can be bad, depending on your target and circumstances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vevster, I wasn't comparing IL-2 to GTA. The point was simple: I knew kids who only played GTA who knew all about IL-2. Now this was a huge success to have become widely known outside of the unremunerative little world of flight simming. Most of the newcomers to IL-2 we see on this forum know nothing about WWII airplanes or flight sims. They are coming to IL-2 because it has brand recognition as a superior game.
BOBSOW will benefit from publicity, whether from a forum, or heavy advertising. Clearly it will be the greatest combat flight simulator/flight simulator of all time. 1C needs to develop interest, and they aren't doing so by keeping a tight lid on this project. I'd like to see 1C make a ton of money in a down market, and have even more success than with IL-2. Now there are mutton heads (not you, Vevster) who wish to believe this is somehow malign---I guess this shows how far some will go to pick fights.

Vevster
01-14-2008, 11:00 AM
Not sure about the details, but what was announced is that Atari & 1C have a co-publishing deal. Atari will distribute 1C games in the US and help 1C establish a company there.

So, in the future, 1C should be able to distribute its games alone. But in which timeframe? Depends also on the deals already signed with international publishers (like Ubi)
For the moment, the number of titles covered by the agreement between Atari & 1C is limited

buddye1
01-14-2008, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Vevster:


Well 3P dev = Third Party development.

SOW:BoB is a third Partu development.


Then you are saying that 1C has subcontracted the SOW:BOB development (Oleg has another company managing and developing SOW:BOB)?

Did Oleg subcontract all the SOW:BOBB development or only part?

Vevster
01-14-2008, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by buddye1:

Then you are saying that 1C has subcontracted the SOW:BOB development (Oleg has another company managing and developing SOW:BOB)?

Did Oleg subcontract all the SOW:BOBB development or only part?


I'm saying that SOW:Bob is a third Party development for Ubisoft, meaning it's developped outside Ubi's studios.

It's not actually 1C who's developping, iirc, because 1C is the Publishing Company. Must be Maddox Games or whatever name Oleg gave to its studio.
Part of the game could be outsourced from Oleg's studio as well (for instance to RRG) but I really don't know anything about this detail, that would be between Maddox Games & RRG(or another studio).

Vevster
01-14-2008, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Vevster:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buddye1:

Then you are saying that 1C has subcontracted the SOW:BOB development (Oleg has another company managing and developing SOW:BOB)?

Did Oleg subcontract all the SOW:BOBB development or only part?


I'm saying that SOW:Bob is a third Party development for Ubisoft, meaning it's developped outside Ubi's studios.

It's not actually 1C per se who's developping, iirc, because 1C is the Publishing Company. Must be 1C:Maddox Games or whatever name Oleg gave to its studio (which belongs to 1C)
Part of the game could be outsourced from Oleg's studio as well (for instance to RRG) but I really don't know anything about this detail, that would be between Maddox Games & RRG(or another studio). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Copperhead311th
01-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Vevster:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buddye1:

Then you are saying that 1C has subcontracted the SOW:BOB development (Oleg has another company managing and developing SOW:BOB)?

Did Oleg subcontract all the SOW:BOBB development or only part?


I'm saying that SOW:Bob is a third Party development for Ubisoft, meaning it's developped outside Ubi's studios.

It's not actually 1C who's developping, iirc, because 1C is the Publishing Company. Must be Maddox Games or whatever name Oleg gave to its studio.
Part of the game could be outsourced from Oleg's studio as well (for instance to RRG) but I really don't know anything about this detail, that would be between Maddox Games & RRG(or another studio). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally after the Pacific fighters mess i wouldn't trust Ilya (RRG) with developing anything. and it's not 1C or MG that's not marketing the product properly. it's UBI. ubi is the one resoponsable for every thing out side of Russia once Oleg is finnished with the dev work. after Oleg relases it to ubi for pressing it's pretty much out side of his hand. and once it goes to pressing all Oleg can do is start to focus onthe next patch or prodject. I would venture to say that out side of soe personal aperances & conventions that Oleg has little to do with the world wide marketing of his sims.

EDCF_Rama
01-14-2008, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by buddye1:
Then you are saying that 1C has subcontracted the SOW:BOB development (Oleg has another company managing and developing SOW:BOB)?


You are confusing 2 distinct companies:
- 1C - a publishing company, who's publishing IL2 (and will for SoW:BoB) in ex-URSS countries.
- M:1C - a development studio, directed by Oleg Maddox and who's developping the games IL2 and SoW:BoB (M:1C was the former Maddox Game Studio, and is now a subsidiary of 1C)

buddye1
01-14-2008, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by EDCF_Rama:
You are confusing 2 distinct companies:
- 1C - a publishing company, who's publishing IL2 (and will for SoW:BoB) in ex-URSS countries.
- M:1C - a development studio, directed by Oleg Maddox and who's developping the games IL2 and SoW:BoB (M:1C was the former Maddox Game Studio, and is now a subsidiary of 1C)

Thanks, for clearing that up for me. I think I now understand the Roles and responsibilities. I guess Oleg will be responsible for marketing in the old Russia then and UBI everywhere else.

However, it really does not change the money issues of very high inflation in Moscow (highest of any city now) as all the primary development is in Moscow area.

Vevster
01-14-2008, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
and it's not 1C or MG that's not marketing the product properly. it's UBI. ubi is the one resoponsable for every thing out side of Russia once Oleg is finnished with the dev work. after Oleg relases it to ubi for pressing it's pretty much out side of his hand.

And development is not finished