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FlamingBomber
07-26-2006, 02:39 PM
My old joystick just crapped out so I'm looking for a new one. I had a microsoft sidewinder forcefeedback pro but looking for something diferent and better. I like the idea of one with a seperate throttle.
What ones would any of you suggest that also works well in Pacific fighters as well as other flight sims.
Any ideas?
thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

FlamingBomber
07-26-2006, 02:39 PM
My old joystick just crapped out so I'm looking for a new one. I had a microsoft sidewinder forcefeedback pro but looking for something diferent and better. I like the idea of one with a seperate throttle.
What ones would any of you suggest that also works well in Pacific fighters as well as other flight sims.
Any ideas?
thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Crash_Moses
07-26-2006, 05:06 PM
Hmmm...figured somebody would have responded by now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Oh well. CH products or Saitek are your best bets. CH if you can afford 'em.

I myself am using an old Thrustmaster F-22 and TQS but I'll be getting CH when they wear out in 20 or 30 years.

And rudder pedals. Ya gots ta have rudder pedals.

S!

leitmotiv
07-26-2006, 05:38 PM
I use a Logitech Wingman Force 3D, which is the best FF stick I've used, and I have all the current ones. I use the monster CH throttle, and CH pedals. Saitek has some new pedals coming out soon. Others will disagree, but virtual flying without FF is completely unrealistic to me---especially in storms, turbulance (FS2004), and when your airplane is being hammered. Add TrackIR and imitation RAF goggles and you are hard-core.

Divine-Wind
07-26-2006, 06:15 PM
Don't forget to mount a large fan behind the computer to simulate wind through the cockpit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But seriously, Saitek or Logitech if you want reasonably priced, durable (for fairly low-priced sticks, that is) joysticks, or Saitek again, CH, or Thrustmaster if you want great HOTAS systems, or just really really really great joysticks. Beware, CH has some high-budget sticks, but really durable from what I'm told.

Basically, Saitek for eyecandy, or CH/Thrustmaster for durablility. (And a thin wallet)

carguy_
07-26-2006, 06:39 PM
You strong maybe?Got big hands?If yes then do not touch Logitech sticks with a ten foot pole.They die out in 6 months of usage.

Budget sticks are Thrustmaster Fox2 Pro and Saitek.A wide choice and good quality for the price.

-HH- Beebop
07-26-2006, 06:48 PM
I recommend Saiteks X-52.
Pros:
* Extremely affordable for a HOTAS
* Lots of buttons and switches.
* Can quit using the keyboard while flying.
* Customizable profiler software available.
* User profiles available for downlaod and are customizable.
* Adjustable joystick grip fits just about every hand size.
* Probably best bang for the buck HOTAS out there.

Cons:
* Not a Force Feedback HOTAS
* Looks futuristic. (But why are you looking at your joystick while flying?)

No FF is the only real 'con' IMO.

Check it out (http://www.saitekusa.com/USA/prod/x52.htm)

My 2 kopecks.

Gold_Monkey
07-26-2006, 09:33 PM
http://search.ebay.com/Microsoft-force-feedback-2-joystick_W0QQfromZR40

No better stick ever made by anyone ever............Period

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-27-2006, 06:15 AM
CH Products.

Any of their joysticks (Fighterstick, Combatstick, flightstick Pro...in that order) paired with a Pro Throttle and Pro pedals will last you a lifetime and fulfill any requirements for any prop-sim.

You can check them out here: http://www.chproducts.com


TB

Zoom2136
07-27-2006, 07:54 AM
The Seitek X-52 is a great stick (it's what I have with CH rudder ped)... the only thing is buy an extended warranty with it... in 2 years I went through 2 of them (1st one... a wire got clip in the base meaning the stick would always stay to the top left (common prob with X-52's).... the second one hade hat swichts that stop working.... but the 3rd one is still kicking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif)

Divine-Wind
07-27-2006, 08:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:
I recommend Saiteks X-52.
Pros:
* Extremely affordable for a HOTAS
* Lots of buttons and switches.
* Can quit using the keyboard while flying.
* Customizable profiler software available.
* User profiles available for downlaod and are customizable.
* Adjustable joystick grip fits just about every hand size.
* Probably best bang for the buck HOTAS out there.

Cons:
* Not a Force Feedback HOTAS
* Looks futuristic. (But why are you looking at your joystick while flying?)

No FF is the only real 'con' IMO.

Check it out (http://www.saitekusa.com/USA/prod/x52.htm)

My 2 kopecks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I absolutely hate that 'trigger guard' up on front. I'd remove it, but it seems attached to the pinkie switch.

WOLFMondo
07-27-2006, 08:16 AM
CH sticks all the way! I just wish that pinkie switch could be removed!

The pro pedals are a must and no other company comes near there build quality. Traded in an X52 for a CH setup and don't regret it at all.

Chivas
07-27-2006, 02:19 PM
I should have a CH figterstick arriving today.

I've had a Cougar, X52, Logitech FF, and several MS sticks. So far the best sticks by far have been the MS sticks for precision and feel.

Hopefully the CH stick feels good and doesn't have the clunky feel of the Cougar. My X52 was very poor for sharp shooting but had very nice software. I still use the Cougar throttle with its great software and have ordered the new Saitek rudder pedals.

I found the twist stick easy to use having all three axis in one hand. It should be a bit of a learning curve to coordinate my feet and hands. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif with seperate joystick and rudder pedals.

Ernst_Rohr
07-27-2006, 03:08 PM
I will thrown in for Saitek or CH. Both are very good HOTAS setups. Cougars are ONLY a good option if you have a ton of money to burn to customize them, but they folks that do swear by them.

Between CH and Saitek;

CH;
Pros-
-DURABLE. Biggest thing for CH, it lasts forever!
-Very solid and very little drift in CH sticks.
-Pretty good ergonomics
-very good programming software
-very solid heavy bases, CH stuff doesnt slide around much!
Cons-
-Expensive compared to Saitek
-fewer buttons than the Saitek
-have to have seperate rudder pedals
-Throttle quadrant is "sticky" and can be a little ratchety, though this usually improves over time as it is used.
-Rudder pedals have VERY narrow spacing, and taller/larger pilots may find them uncomfortable after a while (I do).

Overall, the CH HOTAS is a very good setup, and you definately get your moneys worth, they last forever. Very well designed and durable, lasts forever and very precise. An excellent choice.

Saitek;
Pros-
-Best bang for the buck. Cheaper than CH by a good bit.
-LOTS of buttons, all of which are programmable, more than the CH.
-large number of buttons mean less mode switching (some folks like it, some dont mind mode switching)
-adjustable ergonomics fit a wider range of hand sizes
-good base weight, and it comes with suction cups for additional stick if needed
-arguable the BEST thottle quadrant out there right now. Very smooth and comfortable, lots of buttons and rotaries.
-very simple and easy to use programming software.
-stick comes with a built in rudder twist, so you can get by without pedals
Cons;
-weak spring resistance. If your looking for a stiff joystick, the X52 isnt it. Spring resistance is pretty light on the X52.
-durability. Early Saiteks had longevity problems, but they have gotten better. I have had mine more than a year, and it still works fine.
-rudder twist is VERY sensitive and has a very short throw. This means you have to be careful NOT to twist the stick in a fight are you can throw you sight picture off quickly. (pretty commmon occurance actually)
-Saiteks occasionaly have had some issues with "wander" in the controllers or slightly off range of motion. This is easily corrected by adjust the range bands in MS control panel, but can be annoying.

If your looking for a top class HOTAS without shelling out $300 US, the Saitek X52 is a great choice. IMO the price difference between the X45 and X52 is kind of meaningless, for a few dollars more you get a LOT more utility with the 52.

Pricewise the two options retail for;

CH HOTAS (stick, throttle, pedals) $450 USD

Saitek X52 (stick, throttle, pedals) $280 USD

The CH solution pretty much requires the pedals, the Saitek does not, although seperate pedals work a lot better. Also the Saitek pedals are brand new, and nobody has had chance to really put them throught their paces yet.

Either choice is good, just whatever you feel most comfortable with! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Syama
07-27-2006, 03:17 PM
Will someone please try this? http://www.meroncourt.co.uk/prodview/60

:P

leitmotiv
07-27-2006, 03:30 PM
Thanks for the tip to that new Microsoft FF stick, Gold_Monkey! Bought it instantly (surprised it hadn't been grabbed yesterday!).

Xiolablu3
07-27-2006, 03:31 PM
I have only ever used a MS Force Feedback Pro and I love it.

I would miss force feedback if I got a more expensive stick I think.

All I would do to upgrade is buy a MS FF2 purely to have a USB connection incase my next motherboard doesnt have a PCI slot for my soundcard with a gameport (for the stick).


I am sure you will be able to buy plug in old style PCI slots for future motherboards anyway. Too many people will need to use old kit with their new PC for there not to be such things.

triad773
07-27-2006, 03:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Syama:
Will someone please try this? http://www.meroncourt.co.uk/prodview/60

:P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Says Force Vibration; not force feedback. BIG difference. Have a NASCAR steering wheel for my race car game and it has that feature; it's just wierd- not force anything. Might suggest you stick with the big names and you can't go wrong (CH, Saitek, etc)

Good luck Sir

Divine-Wind
07-27-2006, 03:48 PM
Wow... I was looking at that Speed-Link site, and their Black Hawk joystick has A LOT more buttons on it than any joystick I've seen.

Syama
07-27-2006, 04:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triad773:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Syama:
Will someone please try this? http://www.meroncourt.co.uk/prodview/60

:P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Says Force Vibration; not force feedback. BIG difference. Have a NASCAR steering wheel for my race car game and it has that feature; it's just wierd- not force anything. Might suggest you stick with the big names and you can't go wrong (CH, Saitek, etc)

Good luck Sir </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't even realize it had any vibration or ffb...

FlamingBomber
07-28-2006, 07:33 AM
Thanks for all of your input! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif I probally narrowed it down between the Saitek X52 or going all out and getting CH products. I have the CH pro pedals already and know of the quality of them, I'm just not sure if I want to invest all that money now or not.
Thanks

Any feelings on having force feeedback or not? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

BillyTheKid_22
07-28-2006, 10:09 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Chivas
07-28-2006, 11:53 AM
I just open the box on a new CH Fighterstick. It has the same clunky axis change as the Cougar only with lighter springs.

Its to bad no one makes a decent joystick. It would be nice to have a smooth joystick with adjustable tension. Has anyone made any mods for the CH joystick similiar to the Cougar mods?

triad773
07-28-2006, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FlamingBomber:
Thanks for all of your input! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif I probally narrowed it down between the Saitek X52 or going all out and getting CH products. I have the CH pro pedals already and know of the quality of them, I'm just not sure if I want to invest all that money now or not.
Thanks

Any feelings on having force feeedback or not? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am a beleiver in forcefeedback; that warning shudder in the stick when you are nearing stall I have found very useful. But, to the best of my knowledge no one makes FFB HOTAS setup just yet. Of course the whole enchalada would be FFB pedals AND HOTAS. With some adjustable, strong feedback. Being in a dive and trying to pull up should be more like a tug of war than it has been with ANY FFB stick I had tried.

Best of luck with what ever you decide.

Chivas
07-28-2006, 02:42 PM
Just gave the CH Fighterstick its first run thru. I'm impressed, it may be clucky with weak springs but it is very precise, on par or better than MS and far superior to the X52.

The software is not as intuitive as the MS and X-52 programming. I guess I'll have to read the directions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I like the way you can see the big picture with MS, X-52, and Cougar software. Maybe I just haven't found the right key to display it yet. I think I read somewhere where it can be printed out.

Divine-Wind
07-28-2006, 03:10 PM
Sometime in the future (as in before turning 50) I plan on getting a full CH setup - Pro throttle, pedals, and Fighterstick USB (or whichever is the latest stick/throttle they have then).

If you don't feel like blowing $300 on a CH stick + throttle, Flamingbomber, than an X45 or X52 from ought to work out fine.

Viper2005_
07-28-2006, 03:29 PM
Get a Cougar. Then fit the FSSB R2 mod. Then mod the throttle with a hall sensor, and a set of IJ's switch housings.

The result is unbeatable. It gives finger-tip control (in fact, if I move the hat switches, the change in pressure on the stick makes the aeroplane wobble slightly!), whilst allowing for much more realistic stick forces (up to 20 lbf for full deflection).

The stock cougar is pretty useless because of the awful gimbal and cheap pots, but suitably modded, it's a real beast.

Next stop, a set of simpeds!

Incidently, if you think getting all these mods sorted out is expensive, AFAIK the real thing is about $3000 US. Of course, if you're buying an F-16, that's small change.

Draughluin1
07-28-2006, 04:22 PM
You have to balance up the cost of things. Personally, I'd try to save for the CH, but get the X52 stick and put the balance towards TrakIR. That way, you'll get a setup that's got all the things that you'll probably need. Mind you, I'm the very happy owner of an X52, which I use with an old set of Thrustmaster Racing pedals and it goes fine. Anyhow CH or Saitek is the way to go, but keep clear of the Logitech sticks, just too many bad stories going about on them.

Goodluck, Warg