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InsaneDriver06
07-05-2007, 07:17 PM
Are you still playing Driver: Parallel Lines? Driv3r? Driver 2 and 1? What gives a game REPLAY VALUE, versus the games that sit on the shelf, collecting dust?

Surprisingly, I still plug DPL and Driv3r into my PS2, even while owning a newer console (360). Here are some reasons why I replay these games:

1. DPL offers plenty of in-game options, day/night options, sportbikes, cars, great controls, on foot, giant map to explore, better graphics than GTA in my opinion, race tracks, tons of traffic to weave around, nice sense of speed, speedometer, multiple camera views on foot and in-car. Fast load time, unlike GTA.

2. Driv3r offers many of the same things, but with a more realistic take. Still, it feels a little stiff in comparison, especially the sportbikes, on foot, and in some vehicles. The load times are really fast, like DPL. Film Director mode, but Driver 1's was the best.

If you're still playing, what is it about the game that brings you back, months after owning it, with plenty of other new games to draw your attention away?

For me, REPLAY VALUE increases when the game goes out of it's way to offer more choices for the gamer, like free roam, choose your mission, alter the weather, time of day, crowds, traffic count, ability to fly, customize the controls, on foot with multiple camera views, vehicles with more than one camera view (Test Drive Unlimited), fast loading, cheats after the game is won, cops on/off, etc.

The problem is, most game developers fail to offer many options. They just throw out the missions and forget about the rest. No options to toggle or adjust, no controller button adjustments, no way to alter the sound volumes, etc.

I'd guess the goal of any game maker is to keep the gamers playing, months and years after first playing.

Assaultmachine1
07-05-2007, 11:08 PM
I have to say that I've played Driver and watched my cousin play Driver and Driver 2 yesterday, which is much better at, but I think that I will be playing the games more in the future.

InsaneDriver06
07-06-2007, 05:40 PM
I have plenty of open map/free roam games, but the ones with plenty of options to change the gameworld, and the more realistic graphics (like Driv3r) are the ones I replay the most.

Hopefully, Reflections will increase the amount of options for a fully customized gaming experience in the next big Driver game.

Assaultmachine1
07-06-2007, 10:30 PM
Yes. If Reflections gives many on-foot abilities, plenty of explorable interiors, and many of the driving experience to become more realistic and bigger as or even more than we could ever imagine, I'm positive that the freedom will be huge in every way for the next Driver game.

Driverman2006
07-07-2007, 08:59 AM
After D:PL came out, it really made the previous Driver games un-playable. D:PL is just so addicting. I know Reflections made stupid sacrifices and decissions, but still, the driving part of the game is very fun! I like how it doesn't have a front-end menu, it also has customization, and a money system. I play D:PL the most, I don't play the other Driver games too much anymore. I wonder what the next Driver game will bring out... hmmm...

Symantecus
07-07-2007, 06:31 PM
I play both d3 and DPL. They're both a lot of fun, but the graphics in DPl just kick major arse :-)

InsaneDriver06
07-08-2007, 04:43 AM
Although DriverPL's graphics are more animated in the style of a GTA game compared to the 'realism' of Driv3r, I still play DPL a bit more, thanks to the following:

1. Almost Zero loading while in free roam
2. Three large areas to explore without loading
3. TONS of traffic unlike any game I've played for an open city/on foot game.
4. The heavy traffic (20+ cars) is fun to weave through. GTA:SA can't even compare with it's 8 to 10 car count and cartoony roads and controls.
5. Sportbikes handle much better than Driv3r's stiff turning mechanics.
6. A lot more pedestrians walking.
7. A day/night cycle.
8. No front end menu to load: useful pause menu
9. 1978 and 2006 eras provide nice change.
10. The over the shoulder view when holding a weapon up close. Needs improvement, but nice to see the game world up close, as though you are right there in the game.
11. Speedometer, innovative Wanted Meter, so when cops pass, your vehicle will hide you, and you can escape a minor traffic offense and still be able to walk on foot without being arrested.
12. Garages hold plenty of vehicles immediately available.
13. Race tracks with races anytime.
14. The fastest Driver yet. Nitro also helps.
15. Nice terrain variety, suburbs, city, town, hills, central park, tunnels, bridges, ramps, rooftops, etc.
16. DPL's graphics are better IMO than GTA:SA's oversaturated, blurry visuals, but DPL needed to lose the widescreen black bars. Thankfully there was the fullscreen stretch, which I use all the time.

Those are the main reasons I play Driver Parallel Lines the most compared to the other Driver games, overlooking the flaws and ignoring the missions. Driv3r is also good thanks to the quick loading and decent maps, though it is kind of slow in terms of speed and the traffic is weak in amount.

The Next Driver: DPL's pause menu options are nice, but I'd like to see more vehicle camera views, a Replay/Director mode, more on foot camera views and bring back the easy to use cheat checklist from DPL.

InsaneDriver06
07-12-2007, 10:42 AM
[B]For some of the best editable gameplay options EVER in a game, developers should note RockStar San Diego's Midnight Club 2 and 3. For some of the best editable gameplay options EVER in a game, developers should note RockStar San Diego's Midnight Club 2 and 3. Yes, it's worth repeating. Here's just some of the options allowed in the games:

1. Time of day: dusk, midnight, dawn
2. Pedestrians On/Off
3. Traffic On/Off, none, light, medium, heavy
4. Control Mapping: Every button can be mapped, even the analog and R3, L3 buttons for perfect control set ups!
5. HUD display On/Off
6. Sound Options include volume levels for rider vehicle, ambient sound fx, music.
7. Ability to choose any vehicle earned on any map/city.
8. Steering sensitivity
9. Weather: Fog, Rain, Clear, Snow
10. Plenty of modes: Free Ride Cruise, Arcade, Career, Races, Minigames, etc.
11. Rumble on/off, cameras, camera effects on/off, etc... The options go further than most games even consider for their players. A+ RS San Diego.

Also worth noting is the excellent sportbike controls, good arcade vehicle controls and incredible sense you're inside of a city thanks to the cameras and angles, sound fx, lighting, graphics that really capture the feeling of a city. It still could use an IN-Dash camera though.

Reflections aims for more realism in controls, and if it came down to it, I'd choose Reflections for the cars, but Midnight Club 3 for the sportbike controls.

Slayer_591
07-12-2007, 06:48 PM
I haven't played Driver 1 and 2 for like months.
I played Driv3r last week and haven't played D:PL since I first played it.

InsaneDriver06
07-13-2007, 02:15 PM
I'll say this about Driver 1, 2 and Driv3r. Driving down a straight road is as dull as it gets. Only when a chase starts up does the game become interesting. And nothing is more fun, I repeat, nothing is more fun in a Driver game than hitting a RAMP, flipping your car and spinning into the air, slamming into the ground and landing on your wheels to do it again. The moment your tires leave the ramp, awesome.

Reflections, give us more chances to take our vehicles airborne, and you'll have a potential smash hit on your hands, no kidding. There seriously needs to be a chance to launch into the air down EVERY street in the game, not just one or two ramps here or there.

And bring back the awesome traffic from Driver Parallel Lines, but include a traffic Option none, low, medium, heavy, like Midnight Club 2 did.

These are all reasons I'll replay a Driver game. If there's more of them, the more I'll replay it, but as of now, ramps are too scarce in the Driver games.

InsaneDriver06
01-30-2008, 08:26 AM
I was playing Driver Parallel Lines for a good year there, till I got a 360 and then that's all I play now, as my PS2 library starts to collect dust. Every now and then I'll play Driver 1, 2, 3 and PL just to remind myself how great the realisitic steering is for the cars. The maps are usually a decent size, but for longer replay, they need more interaction (on foot climbing, jumping, grabbing ledges, more interiors, etc) and larger areas to explore like TDU's huge map of Oahu, Hawaii, which hasn't gotten old yet, after a year of playing it.

The Driver games have a decent list of gameplay options, but they could expand on it: allowing more adjustments to traffic, weather, police, criminals walking/driving the streets, control mapping, etc, for more replay value.

Most of all, I'd like the option to adjust the steering sensitivity and driving controls, either through options or upgradeable parts.

kalle90
01-31-2008, 08:34 AM
I haven't played D1 for years, I just few months ago got rid of D2 and I haven't played PL since I first played it. And now D3 has gotten pretty dust collective, but I still play it sometimes.


Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
I'll say this about Driver 1, 2 and Driv3r. Driving down a straight road is as dull as it gets. Only when a chase starts up does the game become interesting. And nothing is more fun, I repeat, nothing is more fun in a Driver game than hitting a RAMP, flipping your car and spinning into the air, slamming into the ground and landing on your wheels to do it again. The moment your tires leave the ramp, awesome.

Reflections, give us more chances to take our vehicles airborne, and you'll have a potential smash hit on your hands, no kidding. There seriously needs to be a chance to launch into the air down EVERY street in the game, not just one or two ramps here or there.

And bring back the awesome traffic from Driver Parallel Lines, but include a traffic Option none, low, medium, heavy, like Midnight Club 2 did.

These are all reasons I'll replay a Driver game. If there's more of them, the more I'll replay it, but as of now, ramps are too scarce in the Driver games.

That's just all wrong, in terms of overall opinion.

I've always liked the varying and realistic style of Driver. Its fun to abide laws as normal citizen, to play story or mini games, be the ultimate criminal, just watch the environments or follow someone, create chaos and break environment and have the huge chases. Sure, few good jumps and ramps here and there are perfect for the game. That all contibutes to variety.

But on every street, no way. That would be way too arcade, GTA style. And it gets repetive and dull very soon too.


And I'd really like to have better driving, on foot, AI, environments and overall improvement, than including all kinds of different options to customise. Weather/Daytime and starting vehicle options are the only truly necessary options. Cheats, on/off police, traffic adjustement and such seem to exist only to cover the lacks of "the real" gameplay. Plus there is never enough options, mini games have 1-3 starting points, there's no sliders to change every individual vehicle commonity percentages. The list goes on. Halo3 has plenty but nowhere near enough.

Instead, I believe that game including audio and photograpically real and rich environment, featuring perfect physics, perfect controls letting player to drive, run, climb, shoot, turn, crouch, swim, change basic views with smart and realistic AI being able to do the same whetever its police, civilian or ally in free world including memorable, epic story and few well thought options and modes, without time spent on random options would really be a smash hit. Not just potential hit. Realistic Driver FTW.

PennySillin
01-31-2008, 11:37 AM
I always hate games with too few options. Of course, you can't please anyone, and too many options is mind boggling, especially specific ones with ambiguous names that aren't fully explained because theres not enough room on the menu.

Cheats are a necesity to me, I also like lots of them, especially if you could combine cheats, such as in GTA, the riot cheat and give everybody weapons, lots of fun together

And jumps help spice up the landscape some, I would definately want rooftop jumps so we could drive for blocks without touching the street once, maybe unlock cheats/something else if you do it within a certain time (like the tuk tuk rooftop chase in Stuntman, nerve racking!)

One thing I hate about most every game is the on foot action. This includes fps only games without driving. It never seems to be that good (Call of Duty 4 is getting there). First off, bad controls are a huge problem. Next is not enough effects going on makes it look boring, wheres the broken shards, dust, fire? People running around, you being able to duck behind objects easily+fluidly (all while moving). GTA and Driver are both horrible in these aspects, why I mostly stay in the car.

Whenever I'm playing a game I can visualize something cool that I'd like to be able to do, and then am saddened by the harsh reality that pretty much every game sucks. I guess I'm better off that way though

Getaway_Man
01-31-2008, 01:42 PM
Haven't played them in ages....what with my PS2 short circuiting itself and my TV.

Something tells me that was a sign.

InsaneDriver06
01-31-2008, 06:01 PM
The on foot so far in the Driver series seems like an afterthought to be blunt. Nothing very exciting, even when shooting. Something's missing obviously. There are no good on foot chases with any sense of tension, the gunfights require almost no strategy beyond hiding behind something, the AI isn't very smart, and ah, it just can't compete with some of the better on foot games out there. Even Syphon Filter's On Foot action is still way more fun than Driv3r's and DPL's.

That said, there's hope Reflections and Ubisoft are gearing up some innovative, awesome On foot to go with all the great driving action in the new Driver.

PennySillin
02-01-2008, 07:34 AM
I'm just glad EA didn't buy them, look what they did to burnout (last I saw), you have to try to get all these little icons scattered about the road, its annoying, its not Mario, its Burnout!

kalle90
02-01-2008, 08:09 AM
I like cheats and options too, but as said, there's never enough or what we need. So there really doesn't have to be too much effort on them. Daytime, weather, car and starting point are the important ones for me.

Other thing is that so far I have always, eventually, reached the point where I play Driver with cheats always on. There's the time I just can't stand the eventual death because enemies are stupid and unrealistic appearing out of nowhere, plus game gets repetive being realistic but not enough. Now I just do invincible deathruns in D3 with all cheats on, destorying and killing randomly and just trying to get huge chases and destuction. I don't think that should be the point. It should be spectacular even without cheats. I would gladly get rid of cheats if the game would then be:
-Amazing, steady graphics, audio and physics
-Great, varieable, balanced Driving and On foot
-Lively cities, lots of smart and realistic people entering and leaving cars, reacting to others actions... Allies and enemies actually giving feel of horrible and yet realistic events.
-Long and memorable story
Of course some add on options like cheats, options and mini games would be great too, but they are secondary. We can't have everything.


Im really for these great looking changes. Burnout Paradise is amazing and new, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif to it. Burnout 3 was amazing, and after that Revenge didn't seem worth anything. I couldn't see them keep going with the same concept. Now they changed and it's perfect. It still is Burnout, just different. Like you, Pennysillin, say: "If You want to be stuck in a car, Go Play Driver 1" That perfectly applies here too, and yet you talk like that.

PennySillin
02-01-2008, 03:54 PM
Cheats like invincible, ammo, etc, are ok, but the cheats I want are the unique cheats you don't see in every game. Zombies, aliens, mech robots, stuff that takes the game to a new level, cheats are unrealistic in real life, so make them more unrealistic in a game. Odd cars, anything you could randomly think of.

I wish on foot was good, so I say don't scrap it. I acknowledge the games that have been released mostly suck on foot, but I've played games that are great, which is why I push for it.

And really, the driving hasn't been spectacularly fun in the last few games either. Good physics, woo! But nothing really past that

kalle90
02-02-2008, 04:51 AM
That still doesn't unprove the point that Drivers have major problems with the base game. Cheats seem to exist to cover them up. But Base game VS. Cosmetic Cheats is clear call.

Driver 3 as example. AI, glitches, on foot were huge problems that pretty much made the game far from perfect though there was good parts too. The cheats, both menu activable and armory ones were there to cover up the lacks, but none of them succeeded very well either. Vermicelly Trucks were mostly boring, Armed Pederestians were stupid without invincibility on because they were everywhere and I got show even if there wasn't one anywhere near and the Infinite Mass was made for driving on straight roads pushing everything, very linear. And there were just 3, one on every level.

I'd fix and improve the base game first. Glitches, AI and balanced vehicle-on foot relationship. Then add the cheats and options. Quality over quanity with cheats too, rather 3 great and mixable than 20 bad and copies.

Driverman2006
02-02-2008, 05:32 PM
I think if Drivers 1-3 were open world (meaning no front-end menu). The scores would've been much higher. Front-end menus suck all of the fun and magic out of many games, especially the Driver series. Front-end menus suck because they isolate every playable aspect of the game from the other playable aspects. You always have to back and forth back and forth through the menu to do stuff, and that really pisses me off.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

D:PL is a very addicting game to play, since it doesn't have a front-end menu. In fact, it is a new standard that all Driving/Free Roaming games are open world. Burnout Paradise, Midnight Club: Los Angeles, and Driver: Parallel Lines are in game series that used to have front-end menus, and they started doing open world structures in the newer titles that I just said. So I have a good feeling that the front-end menu will never return in the Driver series, and I support that 100%.

FutureVenturer
02-02-2008, 10:10 PM
You're absolutely right, Driverman2006. We cannot have any more front-end menus for any games that largely focus on the freedom and a city within a video game. It doesn't matter if it's a racing game, an action-adventure game, or any other game that includes a city. Deal with it by not including the front-end menu for such a game. As for games largely based on linearity, such as fighting games and of developers who focus more on quality and not quantity, it doesn't need to make an appear.

Maybe after a few more years, sometime between 5-10 years, many games will move to an experience that is built on an incredible story, but also with a great level of freedom.

Right now, only games with focuses on cities and worlds (not levels) should take part in no front-end menu. RPGs would make the next great choice since they love to tell the story and to leave such a big world for the player to venture in.

Driverman2006
02-03-2008, 09:09 AM
Thanks for your support, FutureVender! And welcome to the Driver and Ubisoft forums!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Another thing I love about D:PL over all the other Driver games is that it has vehicle customization. That's another standard for vehicle-related games nowadays. I wish Drivers 1-3 had that. That would've increased the replay value a lot too, as well as open-world structure.

These are the standards for the future of the Driver series:
-Open World Structure (meaning NO front-end menu)
-Vehicle customization (hopefully deeper than Midnight Club: Los Angele's)
-A money system (earning money from missions, side missions, etc that you can spend on parts for customization and ammo, and make it so that $999,999,999,999.00 is the maximum amount of money we can have all together, I hate how in D:PL you can never be a millionaire)

-All vehicles in the game operable (those that run on the road, rails, air, and water)

kalle90
02-03-2008, 09:45 AM
I haven't ever really cared about customisation. It feels more like add on that can be made if there's time and space.

I consider the on foot the most important aspect to improve. Smoother moving, shooting, climbing, swimming, ability to enter every building and enter and exit vehicles. Then giving all those abilities to AI that uses them well.

FutureVenturer
02-03-2008, 09:50 AM
The name is FutureVenturer, not FutureVender. I didn't intend my name to sound like that of the character from Futurama. My name is supposed to describe something that is in the future and ventures (goes on an adventure) its world.

As for the rest of your post, I do agree that we need a ton of customization options for the vehicles in the game. However, whenever a vehicle gets too destroyed and you must abandon it, I hope that we can still get it out of a garage of yours, much like what DPL's garage system was like. It made it so that if you left a vehicle behind and it was a sweet ride, you wouldn't have to worry about it, as you could go back to a garage, fix it up, and take it out for a ride. Although we should have maybe a realistic way of storing vehicles, it would make sense to allow us to teleport that vehicle back and use it again. Or, if we can't do that, then you should be able to take pictures in the game. By doing this, you can take pictures of the city, the people, the weapons, and even the vehicles. If you've made a really sweet ride and are worried that you'll get it wrecked, you can take a picture before taking it for a ride and if you've lost the ride, you can go find another car like that, look at your picture of how it looked, and take that same design which it had. It would eliminate the frustration of losing a vehicle that meant so much to you. We should also be able to customize our weapons to a great extent, such that if we lose any, we can take a picture and use the same trick to make a similar weapon as before.

I don't know whether or not Reflections will do such a good job on watercraft or aircraft, so I'll say that the next game would be best off as a game with landcraft vehicles only, which would include anything from automobiles, to motorbikes, to scooters, to even trains as being operable.

The money system should work for you to gain as much as 9,999,999, I'd say because we probably wouldn't need any more money than that to buy everything in the game. If it turns out like this, then Reflections will be quite reasonable enough. And what good does it do to have around 10 or 100 million dollars still in your pocket after having bought everything in the game? Carrying lots of money with you would be silly. Maybe, regardless of anything, Reflections can make the game realistic enough that at some point in the game, people will try to steal money from anyone on the streets. Sometimes, it can be a pedestrian. Other times, it'll be you. If you're lucky enough, you'll be able to run after the person responsible and beat the hell out of him, forcing him to give you back your money. I've noticed that in GTA III there was a rating of Pickpocket, which was a description for Claude at how tough of a criminal he was. You are able to kill someone in a GTA, just to steal their money, but in the next Driver game, you should be able to just walk over to them and snatch their money. The same should go for any NPC (non-player character) or pedestrian in the game.

Driverman2006
02-03-2008, 10:07 AM
Sorry about calling you "FutureVender", FutureVenturer. I got mixed up.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

I can't imagine why anyone would think vehicle customization is an "Add On". It certainly is NOT. Part of what makes driving games fun is that we can make our vehicles look the way we want them to look, and make them go REALLY REALLY fast. So vehicle customization is definetly a high priority for the Driver series.

Now, about aircraft, I think just one kind of plane and helicopter is all we need. This way we can see the cities from above. All automobiles, boats, and trains MUST be drivable in the future Driver games.

kalle90
02-03-2008, 10:33 AM
I don't really care what my vehicle or weapons act and look like as long as there's quite a bit of those available. No one else sees our cars and unmodified performance isn't bad at all.

If I choose bethween modified car or making AI smarter, I definetly take AI. If I choose bethween balanced driving-on foot and modified car, I take the gameplay. Modifying vehicles doesn't affect the core gameplay that much. It's cool, but just secondary. It is part of the fun, but minor part that won't save overall bad game.

Every wish here comes down to priorities. Driver 4 won't have everything we want so I suggest what I consider important now. After seeing the result I add more suggestion for the future. Now I want perfect core gameplay, not hashed plate of random ideas.

FutureVenturer
02-03-2008, 10:44 AM
It's alright, Driverman2006. I forgive you.

You've made a great point, kalle90. The customization features are just secondary options and won't save a game from becoming bad. I think that the customization features should be one of the last things Reflections will need to focus on. After all, I'm tired of seeing terrible AI in a Driver game. The cops need a ton of real skills and tactics to use against taking you down or arresting you, both when driving and when on foot. And yes, improving the core gameplay as much as possible is more important than anything else. This means that the on-foot will need good basic on foot abilities and a good aiming system. The driving will need to feel realistic and differentiated for each vehicle, making the vehicles break and drive differently. A solid storyline is what Reflections hasn't yet been able to capture in any Driver game since the first one, so I'll say that this is another important feature to build upon.

In the end, I want all of the main and most important elements to be as incredible as almost every other big game that is coming out in the 7th generation and even for the secondary elements to feel impressive too. I don't think that the customization options will go as far as a game like Forza Motorsport, but I hope that we'll still see a great deal of it. Although Reflections should remain looking at the AI, graphics, basic on foot abilities, shooting & aiming, driving physics & damage, Film Director, and storyline of the game, it doesn't mean that they should just leave a lot of empty space unused for this next game. It would be such a big mistake for Reflections to do, so the next Driver game must capitalize on the primary & secondary elements of the game. If it only focuses on the primary elements, there's a chance that it'll end up too linear of a game, but if it focuses too much on the secondary elements, it could end up as a hugely non-linear game, yet with a ton of unbalanced elements that tend to make fans very disappointed and have the game fail at its many things that it sets out to do. Lets not have either of these things happen.

PennySillin
02-03-2008, 02:25 PM
How about if the next game lets you store/mod vehicles, when you total it, its still in your garage in mint condition. This way modding cars isn't obsolete within minutes.

And the ability to have more than one version of a car in your garage would be nice

The thing I don't like about the vehicle customization is there isn't anything unique about it, same stuff seen in other games. And we didn't get turbos/superchargers any of that cool stuff

When I say unique, I mean a mod that would make your car pop up onto two wheels so you could squeeze through tight traffic, james bond type stuff, and really anything else

InsaneDriver06
02-04-2008, 10:28 AM
Here a question. How often do you replay the missions when you plug in a Driver game?

I'd say I rarely replay the missions. I rather have the freedom to go anywhere, start a chase at anytime, explore the map, etc, rather than having a strict list of timed checkpoints to reach. Not that some of the missions weren't good, but a majority of them were repetitive, and towards the end of each game, the difficulty ramped up to the point of frustration more than fun.

If I fail the mission, waiting for the game to reload back to the beginning just to repeat it all over again is not a lot of fun if the mission stinks.

Maybe some new way of presenting a mission, where you don't have to repeat the darn thing 100 times (the final Driver 1 and 2, 3 missions), but still make progress with no load screens. Instead of making missions more frustrating, they need to be more fun to get through, with less precision required compared to Stuntman for example(frustration).

kalle90
02-05-2008, 03:01 AM
Yes. Too many missions require knowing the path exactly or huge luck that enemy doesn't use the "wrong" tactics.

I hated the Calita chase mission where I almost instantly saw "oh no she's going to go that path again, I might just as well restart and hope she doesn't use that path then". I can't destroy her car or make it stop, civilian cars have the same linear lines always coming in front of me and not harming her at all and if I get bit too far it's game over. Horrible. There was like 3 different variants of that chase, one reasonable, one really hard and one impossible.


That's one reason why I would make cut scenes playable so story game would be more variable. Chase, getaway, on foot chase, on foot escape, fight, shootout, rescue... That way there wouldn't have to be chase lvl 1, lvl 2, lvl 3, lvl 50.

I play story once or twice, then I play the Take A Ride for 95% of the time and ocassionally some mini games, I wish there was more than 1-3 of variants of every mini game. I still play the entire story and individual missions rarely, though.

PennySillin
02-05-2008, 02:56 PM
When I first get a game, I will usually play somewhere between 5 and 10 missions, loose interest then explore and cause cheat induced mayhem. I may never touch the mission side of the game again after that either.

I just want a game that plays out based on your actions, I know it'd be hard to do, I don't care if Driver ever does it. And it doesn't even have to be much of a story, if the world just changed based on your actions, that would be cool to me, I really play games to mess around, not trying to get too attached as I like leaving my house for hours at a time. Longer I stay away from home the better. And yet here I am..

FutureVenturer
02-05-2008, 03:11 PM
Let me make it sound clear, PennySillin. This is not a time when sandbox gameplay has met its match. Currently, this is a growing sub-genre, but it has hardly ever been doing well, except for a few games, that including Driver (D1), the GTA franchise, Mafia, and Mercenaries. These are the titles which I believe deserve the best credit for moving the genre forward.

As far as I know, RPGs have only been the ones, at this point, to explore a direction in multiple paths through courses of actions in missions/quests. A good example of these games include Fable, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (1 & 2: The Sith Lords), and Mass Effect. Every other RPG is strictly linear and focuses on the RPG battle system as well as the world(s) surrounding it.

To expect a very soon sandbox title that will give you everything you've ever dreamed of about freedom is such an unrealistic wish, at this point. I try to be as realistic with my ideas as possible, so I will say that we won't see such sandbox titles until after about 2-4 years. As for cut scenes, we should have interactive ones at some points in the game. Shenmue 1 & 2, God of War, Resident Evil 4, Kingdom Hearts, and several other titles have had this feature, so I know it could be possible for a sandbox title (Shenmue is a sandbox title).

We likely will see missions that are largely linear, or the replayability of missions, which is not such an important task for players in a SBG (Sandbox game).

PennySillin
02-06-2008, 07:59 AM
ActionDreamer, I'm pretty sure I said it would be hard to do. Obviously I know of your lack of imagination, so I forgive you.

And if rpg games are already doing this, what makes it so impossible for a "sandbox" game to do it? Because of cars and guns?

InsaneDriver06
02-06-2008, 09:34 AM
Example of a lousy mission: You start, two seconds later, "You failed". You restart. Repeat 100 times, till by some miracle of luck you finally get it, if you haven't given up entirely.

The experience becomes more about watching a "loading" screen to restart a ridiculously difficult mission, more than acutally playing to have fun. Challege the player, but don't p!ss them off if you want them to come back.

kalle90
02-06-2008, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
Example of a lousy mission: You start, two seconds later, "You failed". You restart. Repeat 100 times, till by some miracle of luck you finally get it, if you haven't given up entirely.

The experience becomes more about watching a "loading" screen to restart a ridiculously difficult mission, more than acutally playing to have fun. Challege the player, but don't p!ss them off if you want them to come back.

Im all with you. Though just making things easier shouldn't be the goal. Now most missions are easy or ok, but every now and then there's missions that requires perfect luck, nerves and skill. Just making them easier would make the game too easy and short, so something must replace them. Without saying it's clear that AI should be stable, fair and realistic instead of current complete idiot-precoded god rate. Then add few more different missions like on foot chases and proper shootouts.

Though now it feels hilarious imaging the mission failed after every other second http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif But it isn't when Im holding the controller.


Actually, just removing the mission failed screen and making player start again would be huge help. In Halo1 and 2 player respawned instantly after death and I had no problem with it, I was instantly back in action. Halo3 loads after death for many seconds (Still screen so there's even nothing to watch) before player respawning which really irritates me. A lot more you could think.

FutureVenturer
02-06-2008, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by PennySillin:
ActionDreamer, I'm pretty sure I said it would be hard to do. Obviously I know of your lack of imagination, so I forgive you.

And if rpg games are already doing this, what makes it so impossible for a "sandbox" game to do it? Because of cars and guns?
Excuse me, PennySillin, but you got my name wrong. It's not ActionDreamer, it's FutureVenturer.

Secondly, I don't have a lack of imagination. Sure I'm not a professional of coming up with ideas for video games, but you aren't either. I'm just trying to be more realistic, that's all. And I certainly don't want to ruin it for Reflections by telling them the things I want which may not even be possible.

As an answer to your question, I will say this. Currently, the majority of sandbox games have grown to only revolve around crime or as being a cop, which I'd say it very little effort for a developer who is trying to look into the genre and distinguish itself from Rockstar North. I know that GTA IV will definitely have cut scenes. If there was to be any game to be the first to offer no cut scenes, I'd say it would be a GTA game. Up until this point, no one has been able to outsmart Rockstar North. Reflections has been well known for its cut scenes and of making the majority of the Driver titles linear, not non-linear. Unless Reflections spends 3-4 years on the next game, I don't think that we'll see a game with no cut scenes. Also, on top of that, the team will finally need to through in a good story. Otherwise, having no cut scenes worse than having them, as they would help drive the narrative forward. And instead, Reflections can put its focus on making the loading times smaller than ever. Because many developers who've worked on multiple genres or just genres aside from RPGs don't know so much about it, I won't say that Reflections taking an approach to no cut scenes would come out successful. Maybe its team members will allow for cut scenes which allow you to make the choices yourself, but I doubt we'll see no cut scenes at all. I'd say these are the only options for Reflections at this point.

For the other games that have been done without cut scenes, they were the Half-Life games (by Valve) and Bioshock (by 2K Boston/2K Australia), but, of course, we're dealing with these being two of the best developers among the other few that are in the video game industry today.

InsaneDriver06
02-06-2008, 09:48 PM
Challenging, fun missions with plenty of variety that we haven't seen before. Creative missions beyond the typical formula we've seen a hundred times. Rather than restart the mission, you can elect to continue with free ride to take a breather, or jump right back into the mission. Not sure what the best approach would be honestly.

Gamechamp_123
02-10-2008, 05:42 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifI think all of the Driver games are tight! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I enjoyed each one no matter how bad the graphics were. In fact, you might think I'm wierd, but I don't care much about graphics!

Peace Out! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

InsaneDriver06
02-13-2008, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Gamechamp_123:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifI think all of the Driver games are tight! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I enjoyed each one no matter how bad the graphics were. In fact, you might think I'm wierd, but I don't care much about graphics!

Peace Out! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Gameplay over graphics is the way to go, as a game could look great but play like junk and what good would it be? True of many things.

FutureVenturer
02-27-2008, 01:50 PM
Whenever I think about a game's attributes (graphics, gameplay, controls, replay value, sound, innovation, etc.), I don't think of any being the superior one. In all respects to gaming, or, to art, every attribute must be at a high level. Otherwise, a game can really feel sloppy and poor if one thing is the only thing it succeeds in, or even if all but one attribute is done excellent, with the one being terrible. For instance, if you had a game with incredible sound, gameplay, controls, and replay value, even innovation, but the worst looking graphics (a child's own drawings), which completely make the whole game look confusing, the game would be a big letdown. This is where criticism comes to mind. If a game does gameplay very well, but does the graphics poorly, you can see that it still has some very big disadvantages. Therefore, a game must balance out its attributes and make sure that each of them are at least good.

Driver: You Are The Wheelman is the last Driver game that I've played, but that was back a few months or several weeks. I've been away from playing my video games for a while now, with so many things going on. I do not know whether I'll play the next Driver game. If it delivers much better than DPL, I'll hope to give it a shot. However, I'm losing my interests in sequels, as they only tend to improve game and do not raise the bar for many new ideas. And while sequels usually can, in video games, improve over the original, they'll never be able to play a higher form of self-expression than that of the original game. Sequels are usually intended to continue a story, and that's the big picture, whereas, most of the other stuff isn't an entirely new form of art. By the end of 2008, I hope to give up playing sequels (I'll still be watching & reading about them to understand each franchise), as I find more interests in looking beyond that. This means that I'll have the chance to explore whole new games, both those very well known and even some very unknown ones. I will have a journey towards renting the most innovative and unique games ever to be released in the video game industry, sometime in 2009 (hopefully early). I want to be able to continue learning so much about video games and to enjoy them as well.

By some chance, if the next Driver game does deliver big, then I'll be happy enough to rent it (or maybe even buy it). Other than that, I don't feel that I'll go towards playing any more sequels after that. To understand this world better, people will, at most times, need to look past sequels, even though it may hurt at first.

InsaneDriver06
03-06-2008, 05:50 PM
All things of equal quality is the goal, but graphics aren't half as important as great gameplay. If the controls are broken, but the graphics look great, (like so many Amiga 2000 games), the game will quickly begin to collect dust on the shelf. Many arcade classics are better than games with fancier graphics and zero worthwhile gameplay.

At the same time, I agree, try to get high quality in all areas of the game if time allows.
Here's the order developers MUST consider for a good game at the very least:

1. Gameplay first. Responsive, useful controls, solid, entertaining, challenging but fun gameplay.

2. Replay Value: Probably more important than graphics, since it's what keeps you returning for more years later.

3. Fun factor: make sure the game is fun to play for the target audience.

4. Graphics. Make them as good as they can be, but only after the gameplay is perfected. You can make it look as good as the console will allow, and years later, the graphics are still obsolete in comparison to the newest generation consoles.

InsaneDriver06
12-02-2010, 05:58 PM
[bump thread]

On this topic, if you could only keep ONE Driver game, which one would you keep if you were forced to never again play the others?

Driver 1?
Driver 2?
Driv3r?
Driver Parallel Lines?
Driver 76?
Driver (Other mini consoles)?

I'd keep DPL despite what others think about it, as much as I like Driver 1, it's missing the speed and responsiveness of DPL due to the hardware and no fault of Reflections.

DPL: Traffic count was awesome IMO. I like heavy traffic to weave through, but there was enough open space to gun it. Especially with the nicely handled sportbikes.

DPL was a fun game overall, with plenty of customization, nice upgrades, some cool race tracks and on foot, as clumsy as it was. I really enjoyed the mix of 70's and 00's vehicles most of all. And the fps was a nice feature. The cops weren't half as good as they were in Driver 1, and the smashes not as dramatic, but oh well. That's my choice. I'd miss the Film Director though...

brok2
12-03-2010, 10:20 AM
You should put this question in a new thread with a poll. The results would be pretty interesting.

For me it's easily Driver 1. No question. It's a much simpler game, but of what it attempts, it gets far more right than the others did. And I need my hills, precision crafted survival mode, and film director, and D1's is still the best at those.

There are some D3 replays I would miss, but if there was only one ever again, it would simply have to be D1, the psx version, with it's great music (and lack of concrete poles everywhere).

Just let me finish playing through D2's story, mmmk?

J_Frumpleberg
12-03-2010, 10:09 PM
I wish I could say D3, but I would also choose Driver 1. I think thats what most everyone would say who has been with the series since day 1.

Driver 1 is the ultimate pick-up-and-play game. I'd hate to admit it because I've been a staunch advocate of free roam for SOOOOO long, and it still is a nice feature that should not go away, but not necesarily be the main focus.

Driver has never nailed free roam, at least not since they let you get out of the car, giving you the false assumption that you can do other things. It worked in the first game because your car only lasts but so long, which is also better for replay's because you won't run out the clock. The only reason this got annoying is because it starts you out in the same place every time.

Had Take a Ride and the driving games had a randomizer for where it starts you out, and who the target car is, where the target car goes, it would've added some replay value, but then again Driver 1 is near endlessly replayable, sure, you've done it all before, but its still fun.

I suppose it actually helped the game that you had to restart everytime you totaled your car because you don't play long enough to get bored, after a few restarts you say, ok, I'm done

InsaneDriver06
12-05-2010, 07:49 AM
POLL:
Driver 1: 2 votes
D2: 0
D3: 0
DPL: 1 vote
D76: 0
D Other: 0

Driver 1 is the best for film director too, having the most freedom with the chase camera and other options, despite not having some of the blur effects of D3 (which I rarely used as it was too short of a reel).

J_Frumpleberg
12-06-2010, 07:13 AM
None of the film directors have enough camera options or freedom, which is why I've rarely used it, I'm always stuck with tripods. I WANT MOVING CAMERAS!!! If I can't get the shot I want, I don't even want to bother with FD

brok2
12-06-2010, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by J_Frumpleberg:It worked in the first game because your car only lasts but so long, which is also better for replay's because you won't run out the clock.

That's the way I see it- there was no bones about it. If you were seen commiting a felony, you WOULD be caught eventually. The only thing that would change is how long it took, and that all came down to your skill. Even as far back as D2 this was lost a little bit, with car switching emptying your felony meter. I'm not saying they should change it back, just that the stakes always seemed so much higher in D1. Every mission was a desperate race to get to the end before that inevitable point where the cops caught up with you like the relentless force that they were. Like you said- Driver 1 is near endlessly replayable- you've done it all before, but its still fun.

J_Frumpleberg
12-06-2010, 10:26 AM
The worst part (not that it should be removed) was in Miami in the first game, driving down those two lane bridges with the cops on your tail, and then coming to a turn - you know you're not gonna make it, then the cops all smash you into the wall

Imagine real-time damage for that! 5 cars all piling into a wall at 100mph

brok2
12-10-2010, 07:20 AM
Yeah those 2 lane bridges were hell- a road block really would block the whole road, leaving you no option but to barge your way through. When I came up to one of those corners knowing I'd get pummelled, I'd always head for a sandpile to make it a cinematic as possible http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

InsaneDriver06
12-11-2010, 09:54 AM
Like Survival mode, if you didn't plan your impacts ahead of time, game over. Hanging around and circling in an open area/field was a decent way to stay alive and avoid near misses.

alessio000
12-15-2010, 03:05 PM
Sorry for offtopic but i have one problem.
Can you give me a total list of songs which were added to the Driver Parallel Lines Soundtrack from 2006? I heard one great song but i can't find this song anywhere.
Greetings from Poland http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
edit: It was a rap/hip-hop song.

InsaneDriver06
12-15-2010, 05:58 PM
A search on Yahoo reveals a site called mp3bear.com which lists 15 pages of DPL songs I see.

miks2011
07-11-2011, 12:46 AM
wwwwsasadwdwadasdada

lambo_lover
07-12-2011, 12:07 PM
wow this thread is old lmao