PDA

View Full Version : Problem with Nvidia and dx 9



XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 06:34 PM
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1264300,00.asp


Valve Software, maker of this year's highly anticipated Half-Life 2 first person shooter game, revealed initial benchmark results today that show ATI GPUs outperforming their nVidia counterparts by as much as a threefold margin.

Valve's General Program Manager Gabe Newell gave the presentation at an analyst conference being held by ATI in Seattle. And while the circumstances may seem slightly suspect given the event and the Valve/ATI OEM deal, Newell was quick to dispel any such conflict of interest. He stated that Valve was not presenting this data because of the company's OEM deal wtih ATI, but rather Valve had forged the ATI OEM deal in the wake of seeing these benchmark results.

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 06:34 PM
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1264300,00.asp


Valve Software, maker of this year's highly anticipated Half-Life 2 first person shooter game, revealed initial benchmark results today that show ATI GPUs outperforming their nVidia counterparts by as much as a threefold margin.

Valve's General Program Manager Gabe Newell gave the presentation at an analyst conference being held by ATI in Seattle. And while the circumstances may seem slightly suspect given the event and the Valve/ATI OEM deal, Newell was quick to dispel any such conflict of interest. He stated that Valve was not presenting this data because of the company's OEM deal wtih ATI, but rather Valve had forged the ATI OEM deal in the wake of seeing these benchmark results.

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 06:39 PM
Just as they dispel the fact that ATI is paying them off, Nvidia dispels the fact that their driver is not yet optimized for a game that hasn't been released yet.

If you care about some quake kiddie game that hasn't been released yet, then I feel sorry for you.

And keep up with the forums. This has already been discussed ad nauseum a week ago.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 06:42 PM
LOL , I saw some of the post.. Sorry you don't like the facts .

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 06:46 PM
ATI users should be more concerned with the numerous bugs documented in current games.

Calling this to attention is just a move of desperation.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 06:48 PM
Platinum works for ATI............lol...... or he's related to their head custodian.



<img src=http://www.fiftyfourth.com/iB_html/non-cgi/Skin/Default/images/logo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 07:00 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- ATI users should be more concerned with the numerous
- bugs documented in current games.


Bugs can be corrected with new drivers, flawed hardware can't. Besides, I've never had any problem in any game with my Radeon 9700 Pro.

And don't waste your time trying to call me an ATI fanboy. Before I got the Radeon, I had a GeForce2 GTS for over 2 years, and it was great. I don't care about the company, I just buy the best hardware.


Message Edited on 09/23/0309:03PM by JR1911

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 07:08 PM
What does this have to do with IL2/FB asshat?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<center>
No Guts No Glory
<center>
http://www.jpmagazine.com/jpmag/eventcoverage/p95932_image_small.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 07:22 PM
I just bought a new ATIRadeon 9800 pro. It is on its way back to the store to be returned. I now know way Ati cards are less costly then Nvidia (reserch). The drivers and the installion software is the worst I have ever run across. I have a newer system and cant get this card to work. I have talked to a few people that have had the same problem with crashing and unstablity.

If I pay around $400 for something I expect it to work and if it dont I spend my money else where. I will never buy ATI again. Its a shame to because Im looking at 9800 pro right now but its worthless because of ATI poor software developers.



Message Edited on 09/23/0306:47PM by ruskoz

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 07:28 PM
ATI driver installation is no worst than Nfneb driver installation if not better.



The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 07:30 PM
9800pro has compatability issues with the latest Pentium systems. I have seen reviews where they couldn't get it to work.

Just stick with Nvidia for games it's your safest bet.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 09/23/0302:33PM by RayBanJockey

Cpt.LoneRanger
09-23-2003, 07:34 PM
I am an ATi-Fan, since my very first PC. I always liked them and they are still very, very good pieces of hardware.

But I now own a GF4Ti4800. Why I changed my mind?

1. ATi-Drivers are about 1/2-1 year behind current games and DX.

2. Okay, the hardware does pixel-shading, but they still have a huge problem with Z-Buffers.

3. ATi has higher Framerates with FSAA and AniFiltering. Perfect, but you should really try it on higher settings. Texture distortions are there in ALL games.

4. FPS - Yes, on many games, ATi gets more FPS than nVidia cards. True, true, but my Ti4800 with 2000XP (&OmegaDrivers) has 3 times as much FPS on UT2003 as the (spahire) 9800pro with a 2400XP on same system.

People should stop taking one test and comparing some numbers, that say just nothing. I will probably get an ATi as my next card, too, but comparing what you get for the money and what current games demand, I'd really go for nVidia, at the moment.

Make up your own mind and stop stealing opinions.

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger


http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/CptLoneRanger.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 07:37 PM
It`s as I thought- and sad. Graphic card companies seem to be paying off software companies to run their stuff better. Disgusting company crap. Using our love of these games so they can make their profit on top of a profit! Why can`t they work amicably together Nvidia and ATI with Valve to produce something GREAT? And make money that way with everyone happy?

But oh, no, it just doesn`t work like that. The mental capacity isn`t there! Those companies are worst than whiners here!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 07:54 PM
Cpt.LoneRanger wrote:
- I am an ATi-Fan, since my very first PC. I always
- liked them and they are still very, very good pieces
- of hardware.

it seems you like crap VD, ATI made crap VC and drivers befroe R8500

- But I now own a GF4Ti4800. Why I changed my mind?
-
- 1. ATi-Drivers are about 1/2-1 year behind current
- games and DX.

you got proof for that?since you using Nfneb card?

- 2. Okay, the hardware does pixel-shading, but they
- still have a huge problem with Z-Buffers.


what is exactly Z-buffers if i may ask

- 3. ATi has higher Framerates with FSAA and
- AniFiltering. Perfect, but you should really try it
- on higher settings. Texture distortions are there in
- ALL games.

is 1600X1200@32/100 with AA 4X, AF 8X high settings??
i've been using it with all my 6 games for hours and i dont see what you said here.

- 4. FPS - Yes, on many games, ATi gets more FPS than
- nVidia cards. True, true, but my Ti4800 with 2000XP
- (&OmegaDrivers) has 3 times as much FPS on UT2003 as
- the (spahire) 9800pro with a 2400XP on same system.

sounds like a BS to me. unless that 9800pro installed on full of carp PC with 32 MB ram.

- People should stop taking one test and comparing
- some numbers, that say just nothing. I will probably
- get an ATi as my next card, too, but comparing what
- you get for the money and what current games demand,
- I'd really go for nVidia, at the moment.

????????

- Make up your own mind and stop stealing opinions.
-
- greets
- Cpt.LoneRanger
-




The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

Cpt.LoneRanger
09-23-2003, 08:17 PM
That's exactly, what I mean, Dayak. Have you ever tested any GeForce yourself?!

So don't tell me, I talk non-sense. My last ATi was a 9500, so please, don't call me a lyer, or what do you mean by proof?

I tested both cards (Gainward GF4Ti4800 and Sapphire Atlantis 9800pro) on XP, both with newest drivers and 1gig memory.
To the original Detonator-Driver, ATi had an advantage of exactly 5 FPS.

With the Omega-Drivers it was as I said. I got over 160FPS in Ut2003 (1024x768, no sound) and 50-58 with 9800pro.

I don't know what 6 games you're running, but I ran IL2FB with it on 1600x1200 with highest settings and best graphics quality and the picture quality was awesome. However, there was a color distortion on some textures. Even with newest drivers, it didn't go.

Z-Buffer is a problem since the very first Radeon (which I bought happily as it was released and made very good experiences with). It was very obvious with UT1. The ATi was not able to determine which texture was on top and which below. It resulted in a 50% FPS-loss, at best!
ATi allready admitted that problem and said to have found a software fix. However, all Radeons have this problem.
Then, about summer last year, Radeons were high in course for AmericasArmy cheaters, cause their drivers weren't unable to display fog. (Same problem)
Besides that, you should use "Java GunCam" with ATi and IL2(FB). Then you'll see another problem: The cockpit is not drawn completely in every single frame. Newer drivers help, but it still occurs. If you make frequent screenshots, you may be seeing through the nose, sometimes you'll only see the gunsight, sometimes nothing of the cockpit at all.

You should make some tests yourself, before you try to flame somebody.

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger


http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/CptLoneRanger.jpg


Message Edited on 09/23/0309:21PM by Cpt.LoneRanger

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 08:24 PM
yes i still have my GF Ti 4600 installed in my gf PC, i gave it to her and she live with me.
my 6 games included FB.
but on my test we got the opposite result, i dont know why.
tell you the truth i dont have UT2k3
im not flaming you, it just what you said in not true based on my experience.

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

Cpt.LoneRanger
09-23-2003, 08:37 PM
Dayak wrote:
- yes i still have my GF Ti 4600 installed in my gf
- PC, i gave it to her and she live with me.
- my 6 games included FB.
- but on my test we got the opposite result, i dont
- know why.
- tell you the truth i dont have UT2k3
- im not flaming you, it just what you said in not
- true based on my experience.

Okay.

Yes, that's something completely different, since it was, what I said before:

It all depends very much on the game and drivers you use and what you want to do with the GFX-card.

There simply is no such thing as a neutral benchmark. Besides that, there is evolution in both, drivers and chipsets. One is useless without the other.

Therefore this whole "nVidia/ATi is better" crap is just non-sense and there is no simple true answer to decide what's best.

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger


http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/CptLoneRanger.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
09-23-2003, 08:38 PM
Guys, evolution in graphic cards is toward image quality - not raw speed. ATI cards do not show their advantages until you start to crank resolution, aa and af.

I run ati cards across quite a few different hardware platforms - mostly p4 - including the latest 875p chipsets.

I've built quite a few systems with these cards with no problems whatsoever - i test them with FB.

Nvidia is behind the curve in design evolution - they have opted for raw speed instead.

The current FX series cards are a stopgap. (in many benches the older Ti series cards are as fast or faster)There will be a quantum leap from both ati and nvidia soon. I'd expect Nvidia to pull ahead again simply because they have to try harder right now. They also, at the moment, have more problems with quality control - though ATI cards varied alot when the 9700s first hit the market.

Brand loyalty is ridiculous. Read the review and make your best call - but don't proselytize about it - that is an obvious sign of insecurity.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg


Message Edited on 09/23/0303:42PM by ZG77_Nagual

Cpt.LoneRanger
09-23-2003, 08:51 PM
@ ZG77_Nagual

Right. As I said, it really depends on what you wanna do with the computers.

If you do a lot of work with 3DSMAX, eg, nVidia runs smoothly with all drivers, whereas ATi makes some problems but has a recognizable better 2D-Signal clearity.

As I said, there is no plain better or worse.

greets
Cpt.LoneRanger


http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/CptLoneRanger.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:37 PM
Ah Ha

Your stupid DX9 arcade game got delayed until Xmas

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/28497

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 02:02 PM
I had a 9700pro and just could not get it stable on my system ( worked fine in friends ) .But when it did work it looked great.I dont want to try anouther ATI card on this system But with the price of nvidia I would be tempted to try it on a new system.

No1RAAF_Pourshot
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/CA-15%20Kangaroo.jpg

No1_RAAF