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chunkydora
07-21-2008, 01:08 AM
Does anyone know what convergence the guns were usually set to when mustangs escorted 4 engine bombers over germany? Or did it vary widely? Also, how about the jug?

WHen flying the mustang, I have been debating between 200 and 150 meter convergence. 150 seems too close, since I'm BnZing, moving way faster than the enemy. Was wondering what others did.

JtD
07-21-2008, 02:03 AM
400 yards was a typical convergence for US fighters. Note that not all guns were set for this distance, they'd usually cover a range with one pair set to 350, next to 400, next to 450 or so. Made it easier for new pilots to hit. Spray and pray.

Cajun76
07-21-2008, 02:14 AM
I don't recall exactly what the real life was set to, it varied at times.

For the Tbolt, you should be aware that the inner and outer pair of guns, even though all machine guns, are divided into Weapon 1 and 2, cannon and machine gun triggers.

This means you can change the converge of these pairs independently.

My personal setting is 300 for MG and 250 for cannon, giving a good, solid cone of fire that coincides with the dispersion modeled and allows a flexible range of optimal engagement.

Convergence is also a personal affair. Set up some friendly 109s or 190s in QMB and practice diving and firing. Watch your track and determine when your opening fire and where your bullets converge. For the Pony, try 200 as a starting point.

Hope this helps, good luck and

Bewolf
07-21-2008, 02:50 AM
I actually prefer closer distance kills. Guns in most 50cal fighters I fly are always set to around 200, rarely more, often less. The trick is to get close, no matter the flight envelope, especially during energy fighting. Gave me some pretty neat results all in all.

It requires some nerves to hold the piper on target, though, and hold back fire for that long.

chunkydora
07-21-2008, 09:33 AM
I've had a couple really great kills with the convergence for the mustang on 150 meters (a couple bullets right at convergence and their tail falls off), but it starts to get scary in that close. I will definitely try 250 and 300 for the jug. BTW, where do you guys get this information? Old manuals?

DKoor
07-21-2008, 11:06 AM
In majority of cases, I get 'spectacular' results when I hit the target from 180-300m. If it's closer or farther I get less results.
By spectacular I mean cutting parts of enemy aircraft or setting it on fire.
I'm not talking about convergence here, just the distance from where I get really good results with one concentrated burst.

RockyAlexander
07-21-2008, 11:49 PM
Standard convergence settings for the Mustang (as well as all USAAF fighters with wing-mounted guns) was 300 yards (approximately 274 meters). The USN liked this convergence setting for its aircraft as well.
The brits adopted a standard convergence setting of 250 meters during the latter weeks of the Battle of Britain. As one can imagine, they had far more success with that than with their prior standard of 400 meters.

Ultimately, convergence settings depended on the preferences of the individual pilot. Popular with many Mustang pilots was to have their innermost guns set to converge at 150 yards (approximately 137 meters), with the middle guns converging at 225 yards (206 meters), and the outermost guns set for 300 yards (274m).

TinyTim
07-22-2008, 12:46 AM
I use 120m or max 150m convergence on any 6x.50cals plane, if going versus fighters. I never shoot when I'm more than 200 meters away. Efficiency drops when closer than 80 - due to wing mounted weapons. My average air to air gunstat online in fighter vs. fighter scenario is 10-12%.

In a mustang it's not that hard to avoid collision since it has great high speed elevator authority, so you can get really close to your target. I shoot from so close due to primary factor that makes shooting easier/more ammo economical: target is bigger, much bigger. It's 9 times as big at 100m compared to 300m. It makes you use less ammo, besides this also those bullets that connect have more destructive power than at 300 meters. Using .50cals at 300 meters or more I feel like I'm shooting with paintgun - lots of "flashes" all over the targets, lots of small black parts falling from them, but they just keep on flying... like the bullets have lost all their power over that distance. But if you get him into a convergence spot 120m away... devastating.

For bombers and ground strafing I use 250 or 300m.

M_Gunz
07-22-2008, 12:58 AM
If you will BnZ then consider how close you will get before peeling off and how much time you
want to shoot before you get that close. Remember to add some for ranging burst and your fire
correction.

A lot of this depends on how slow your target will be compared to you in some cases. You do
NOT want to get co-speed with a Zero anywhere near his mid-range speed while you are in almost
any US plane for example, so sitting on his tail and peppering away at 150m isn't real bright.

For all that matter, it's not a good idea against a 109 at under 400kph.

So consider what kind of tactics you will be using as part of what range you want to set.
Remember that the closer you set convergence, the narrower the range band that your shots
will be grouped closely too.

Yeah, life's a beotch.

chunkydora
07-22-2008, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
I use 120m or max 150m convergence on any 6x.50cals plane, if going versus fighters. I never shoot when I'm more than 200 meters away. Efficiency drops when closer than 80 - due to wing mounted weapons. My average air to air gunstat online in fighter vs. fighter scenario is 10-12%.

In a mustang it's not that hard to avoid collision since it has great high speed elevator authority, so you can get really close to your target. I shoot from so close due to primary factor that makes shooting easier/more ammo economical: target is bigger, much bigger. It's 9 times as big at 100m compared to 300m. It makes you use less ammo, besides this also those bullets that connect have more destructive power than at 300 meters. Using .50cals at 300 meters or more I feel like I'm shooting with paintgun - lots of "flashes" all over the targets, lots of small black parts falling from them, but they just keep on flying... like the bullets have lost all their power over that distance. But if you get him into a convergence spot 120m away... devastating.

For bombers and ground strafing I use 250 or 300m.

I am going to try 120 m convergence (I have noticed such amazing results with 150, I can't wait to see what'll happen), but what speed are you going? I am generally diving in a little under 400 mph when I start to fire. The biggest problem with me is my nerve. I really want to pull up at 370 mph 120 m to the target. Thanks also for the tip about open fire under 200m.

chunkydora
07-22-2008, 06:58 PM
WOW!

I set up a QM with 4 friendly 190s to test out 120m convergence and opening fire under 200m. Worked like a charm, they were flaming balls of metal before I could say "Die!". Thanks for that tip TinyTim, before I had always opened fire around 350m.

WTE_Galway
07-22-2008, 08:35 PM
Historically P51 convergence varied not just in distance but also in pattern.

This was a controversial topic on these forums a few years back. I think IL2 now uses a "box" pattern for the 0.50 cal guns on the P51 ... but I am quite sure someone will correct me if I remembered it incorrectly.

CrazyOWl
07-23-2008, 12:50 PM
Now That I read this Iam wondering if 400m is to mush. Also Iam new in il-2 but not to sim flight I use to have this settings in ah2.

Now A question when I see a plane closing in 20 or 30 means 200 or 300 feets of distanse or 100 is equal to 1.00?

<S>

JtD
07-23-2008, 01:15 PM
Unless you edited something, 0.30 would mean 300 meters.

For the record, I'M using 150-200 convergence depending on the opposition. 150 is most frequent.

Sillius_Sodus
07-23-2008, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by CrazyOWl:
Now That I read this Iam wondering if 400m is to mush. Also Iam new in il-2 but not to sim flight I use to have this settings in ah2.

Now A question when I see a plane closing in 20 or 30 means 200 or 300 feets of distanse or 100 is equal to 1.00?

<S>

Hi CrazyOWL,

400m convergence on a fighter equipped with wing mounted guns is a bit far, unless you are shooting at large targets, like bombers, or you are a very good shot. The trick is to hit your target at the convergence distance for best results. You want to get a nice concentration of rounds on the target, as even weaker guns do fairly well at convergence. I generally don't set the convergence to more than 200m for wing mounted guns. Nose mounted weapons are a different matter since they are already placed closer together. I like 400m for them. You also have to remember than machine guns and cannons have different ballistic characteristics so bullet trajectory may be different for each. You'll have to play around a bit to find settings that work best for you.

CrazyOWl
07-23-2008, 02:50 PM
copy thnkz. will chk

M_Gunz
07-24-2008, 02:00 AM
You should figure that halfway to converge the shots are gonna be about half as wide as your
guns are apart and a bit high or low from the pipper. Fighter fuselage is about 1m wide.

If you are firing from a bit to the side though, he's gonna catch more hits though they will
be spread out. If from above or below and the shots catch the cockpit then the wings will
get the ones that go wide. If the spread is along his flight path then you have a wide lead.
None of those has the raw damage power of all at converge but if you are not co-speed right
on his tail then you can't hold at convergence anyway -- that includes most all deflection
shots. It's no big deal when you aren't shooting through armor, PK's and engine/control hits
are fight finishers anyway.