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Schleichfart
03-04-2005, 02:28 PM
I know that this question was answered in the Devs Q&A, but I think quite in an evasive manner.

First they say, yes definitely the ocean will be very realisticly modelled, and thermal layers will be included. Then, when asked if one can hide under thermal layers, they say they are "working on thermal layers". That doesn't sound to me like this feature is definitely included.

So does anybody know more?

Schleichfart
03-04-2005, 02:28 PM
I know that this question was answered in the Devs Q&A, but I think quite in an evasive manner.

First they say, yes definitely the ocean will be very realisticly modelled, and thermal layers will be included. Then, when asked if one can hide under thermal layers, they say they are "working on thermal layers". That doesn't sound to me like this feature is definitely included.

So does anybody know more?

Gbucket
03-04-2005, 02:36 PM
If you could explain to me what a thermal layer was, I could try to help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Messervy
03-04-2005, 02:48 PM
Thermal layer is a difference in a salinity and temperature of the water which causes the sound (asdic ping) to bent when pasing through the layer, thus rendering it usseless.
The american subs had a device installed that meassured thermal layers, but the matter regarding German subs is somewhat shrouded in the mist. Oesten said they didn`t bother with thermal layers, yet some sources from BdU clearly encourage use of thermal layers.
You should be looking for a device that measures temperature of the water, but I personaly doubt it is there.

Schleichfart
03-04-2005, 02:49 PM
I am no expert, but as I understand it the differences of the temperature of the ocean at certain depths effectively has the consequence that you can hide from sonar etc. because the thermal layer is like a "wall", because it has different physical attributes.

As I understand it this could mean the difference between life and death of a sub in WW2 sometimes, so it would be nice if that was implemented.

(Edit: Oh I see it has been answered with more expertise, thanks!)

hauitsme
03-04-2005, 02:54 PM
Also known as thermoclines. Quite a few things are factored into creating them, but temperature is the predominent one.
__________________________________________________
'Thermocline: definition.
Depth at which the rate of decrease of temperature with increase of depth is the largest. In general the sea water temperature decreases from the surface to the deepest levels, except in high latitudes where the configuration can be more complex. There exists in most ocean areas (apart from polar and sub-polar oceans) a zone where the rate of decrease of temperature is much larger compared with that above and below, hence the definition. Depending on the geographical location, the thermocline depth ranges from about 50m to 1000m. A simplified view is to consider the thermocline as the separation zone between the mixed-layer above, much influenced by atmospheric fluxes, and the deep ocean. In the tropics, the thermocline can be quite shallow on average, as in the eastern Pacific (50m), or deeper as in the western part (160-200m). In extra-tropical regions a permanent (or main) thermocline is found between 200m and 1000m. However the thermocline depth varies seasonally, especially in the mid-latitude regions where a secondary and much shallower thermocline (above 50m) occurs in summer. In high latitudes, a thermocline may appear only seasonally. Thermocline can also vary from one year to the next, as in the tropical Pacific where thermocline vertical displacements play a fundamental role during ENSO. As the pycnocline, the thermocline is a prominent feature of the ocean which conditions many physical, chemical and biological processes occurring in the oceanic upper layers. In many situations, the thermocline can be identified with the pycnocline when the vertical contrasts of salinity are small.

Who cares? physical oceanographers, marine biologists, climatologists‚‚ā¨¬¶, therefore any specialist dealing with the upper ocean will need to consider the thermocline. In a practical way, this oceanic feature is very familiar for instance to fishermen and submarine crews.'
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/guides/mtr/eln/gifs/upw2.gif

Gbucket
03-04-2005, 03:00 PM
Oh right.


Errr.. I think you guys are going to have to work this on out for yourselves http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Schleichfart
03-04-2005, 03:06 PM
Lol thanks, we will just imagine that they are there and pretend it is due to thermal layers if that destroyer doesn't get us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Or I will just put a bucket of hot and cold water next to my computer... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Alpha_456
03-04-2005, 03:29 PM
Thermal layers are very important for escaping detection.They do exist whether you have the instrument to tell they are there or not.

They should be implemented in the game that's for sure.They existed in SH1.Why not in SH3?

I also fear that this is something very difficult for any unlucky modder to try and simulate.

Let's hope the dev team did it right at this one.

Nukem_Hicks
03-04-2005, 03:48 PM
I can't imagine playing the game without the use of thermal layers. Survival in Aces and SH1 frequently depended on using the thermal layers to the fullest extent possible. I can't imagine that the dev team left them out.

Dominicrigg
03-04-2005, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
Oesten said they didn`t bother with thermal layers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He didnt say that, he meant they didnt bother worrying about where they were. Because in evading attack they would go deep, which would put them under the thermal layer if there was one. Its not a case of not using them, its a case of it wasnt something they had to try to use. Its like worrying about friction while you are going round a corner in a car, its there wether you worry or not. As far as i knew they said it was in the game though.

Messervy
03-04-2005, 04:37 PM
Good! I remember in SHl I felt a whole lot better when I hit one! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dominicrigg
03-04-2005, 05:36 PM
Were they actually in aces of the deep dos edition?

I remember them in silent service, the depth guage went blue as you went through it, but i cant remember them in aces of the deep... hmmmm

Rockeye5
03-04-2005, 07:28 PM
I have CAOD and I still play it on XP ( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ) , and there is no indication of thermal layers.

hauitsme
03-04-2005, 09:14 PM
Hey Rockeye5!
To have your sig show, you must insert an closing mark / into the tag at the end ( [/IMG] ).

HeibgesU999
03-04-2005, 10:37 PM
There were two questions left unanswered in this topic.

1. When did the uboats gather their information on a particular areas thermal layers?

2. How did the uboats use the information tactically?

It was generally agreed upon, that there was some device onboard to measure either water temp or salinity.

It was also generally agreed upon that the hydrophone operator was of great use in detecting the passing of thermal layers.

My feeling was they dived to a certain depth when under dc attack, and if a thermal layer was there it was great, but if not the kalue was still going to that depth: at least initially.

Shado2k2
03-05-2005, 09:20 AM
Here's a couple of types of Thermal layers.

Thermals (http://www.whprice.co.uk/mustothermals.jpg)
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif