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JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 09:46 AM
You know how Altair and Ezio Auditore's hand-to-hand combat isn't as finess as it could be? Well what if Ubisoft introduced a martial art like karate or judo into the gameplay? It would give it a much more aesthetically pleasing style of hand-to-hand combat instead of just wildly throwing fists about.

Tuna...no.crust
05-01-2011, 09:57 AM
If that's gonna be the case then the ancestor should be the one learning the martial art first.
Desmond's not just going to get a grip and start learning savate or muay thai.

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 09:58 AM
Don't really give a F, about how it looks, efficiency is cool.

ScreaminEagle
05-01-2011, 09:59 AM
Karate derived from empty hand style of chinese kung fu, Judo derived from Jujitsu. Jujitsu was born in feudal Japan. Anyway in ACII when you disarm guards you use Jujitsu-like technique.

SPROGGY
05-01-2011, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
Don't really give a F, about how it looks, efficiency is cool.

This. You could argue that Ezio was already using a combination of martial arts in brotherhood. Grappling from judo, catch, or bjj. Striking from muay thai and or boxing. Real fights are rarely pretty regardless of martial arts experience. Besides, to me AC has always been about the efficient and sexy use of a blade. Specifically the smaller blades like the dagger and wrist blades. Why use your hands when you could use a weapon...

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by ScreaminEagle:
Karate derived from empty hand style of chinese kung fu, Judo derived from Jujitsu. Jujitsu was born in feudal Japan. Anyway in ACII when you disarm guards you use Jujitsu-like technique.

Well, not really.
Though it's all pretty basic.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 10:44 AM
It is true that Ezio Auditore already uses some forms of martial arts. However, most of these are disarms. If the learning of a martial art was actually made a part of the game, this would give the player a better experience of the hand-to-hand combat system.

shobhit7777777
05-01-2011, 11:01 AM
Don't really give a F, about how it looks, efficiency is cool.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The Current "Street-fighting-Dirty-Brawling" style is perfect. It is underhanded, quick and brutal...the way I'd expect an Assassin to fight. There is a reason why many military and law enforcement agencies study martial arts like Krav Maga and the Keysi fighting style...they are highly practical and efficient. An Assassin fights to quickly end an argument and GTFO of there. There is a certain rough edge around the fighting style used by Altair/Ezio that speaks volumes of the street fighting and practical experience such guys have.

IMO the next game should focus more on the plot and STEALTH rather than spending time on making pointless flashy animations for a new martial art.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 12:29 PM
The Current "Street-fighting-Dirty-Brawling" style is perfect. It is underhanded, quick and brutal...the way I'd expect an Assassin to fight.

An assassin would use a martial art. I dare any street fighting man to take on another man who knows a martial art. Judo and karate are quick, efficient and capable of taking on multiple opponents. As assassin doing street brawling like a drunk football team supporter is very far-fetched. What they should do is begin with the assassin doing street brawling and then halfway through the campaign he is taught a martial art (like an upgrade for hand-to-hand combat).

Radman500
05-01-2011, 12:40 PM
there's no reason to put a flashy martial art....

ezio's h2h wasn't pretty, but it still was effective..

plus most AC probably use weapons most the time.. so there really isn't no need

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by JamesF1994:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Current "Street-fighting-Dirty-Brawling" style is perfect. It is underhanded, quick and brutal...the way I'd expect an Assassin to fight.

An assassin would use a martial art. I dare any street fighting man to take on another man who knows a martial art. Judo and karate are quick, efficient and capable of taking on multiple opponents. As assassin doing street brawling like a drunk football team supporter is very far-fetched. What they should do is begin with the assassin doing street brawling and then halfway through the campaign he is taught a martial art (like an upgrade for hand-to-hand combat). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dare any man with actual experiance to fight a man who knows a martial art, yet has never had a fight.

Martial arts are useful, but not everything.

Besides it depends entirely when and where the game is set, i doubt ezio would have had the chance to learn oriental fighting styles in italy.

Things like Krav maga are much more useful than kung fu, for an assassin. Most martial arts have a certain etiquette and code of honour, that is NOT useful for an assassin, an assassin wants to take his opponent down quickly by what ever means nessecary.

Not that he should be getting into face to face situations anyway...

shobhit7777777
05-01-2011, 12:55 PM
An assassin would use a martial art. I dare any street fighting man to take on another man who knows a martial art. Judo and karate are quick, efficient and capable of taking on multiple opponents. As assassin doing street brawling like a drunk football team supporter is very far-fetched. What they should do is begin with the assassin doing street brawling and then halfway through the campaign he is taught a martial art (like an upgrade for hand-to-hand combat).
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
O rly?
Like I said...efficiency, if Karate and judo have quick LETHAL strikes that will down a guy twice your size in 3 seconds...fine teach em. But the point is that most martial arts are, well, Arts. Their practical applications are limited in a No-holds barred contest. The martial arts you have mentioned are performed with strict rules and limitations and in an athletic arena. It comes down to experience, agility and intelligence. The fighting style you see in AC shows a brutal and effective side of fighting minus throws and combos. Throwing dirt, throat punches, arm twisting..they are all improvised tactics and are effective in demonstrating the sneaky, ruthless and efficient nature of the Assassin sect.
If Judo, Taekwondo, Karate etc. were so effective we would not see the rise of Keysi , Krav Maga or Sambo. These are martial arts MEANT for real life combat. They take the best aspects of existing martial arts, infuse a certain practicality into them and create an effective and proven form of combat. So you would be better off including the combat styles I mentioned...not the traditional Karate, Judo, Aikido etc. But I still maintain the Hand to Hand combat in existence is still appropriate....maybe include some more complex moves but please NO judo throws and tomo nages.
Ubi needs to forget the combat now and focus on STEALTH....sneaking is a more important aspect of being an Assassin than combat.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 01:34 PM
Er, yeah it does actually. Have you ever actually seen the usage of judo, taekwondo or karate? If not, have a look at these:

Taekwondo vs Street fighter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I1iIeIGGWY)

Karate 6th dan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7mGn8h3SP4)

Blend of judo and jujitsu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__CdPeJoXo)

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 01:39 PM
A video of two lads ****ing about in their back yard.
A video of two fat karate blokes staring at eachother.
And an example on one such modern style that we were talking about.

Not very convincing my friend.

Krav maga: much more effective against your average attacker, or even trained attacker. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ture=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkU9zyHuWw&feature=player_embedded)
Notice how easily he neutralises a spinning kick. this is why basic part-improvised styles are better than traditional styles.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 01:40 PM
I dare any man with actual experiance to fight a man who knows a martial art, yet has never had a fight.

A person who is taught a martial art trains about three hours a week.
A person who only knows street fighting has maybe one proper fight in his life. Usually begins by swearing and saying 'come on then', they scrap for a few seconds and then leave each other alone.
Judo would crush anybody. It is not just throws and holds, it involves arm locks capable of breaking people's arms, strangles and chokes capable of killing someone in a few seconds.
So i disagree with that remark.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 01:41 PM
So you didn't see the 6th dan knock him out in two seconds? You blind?

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 01:48 PM
People can be naturally good fighters you know.

Yeah i saw the two guys walk around doing karate, being quite slow, holding an open stance and more importantly obeying the rules. then i saw the guy throw a kick and knock the other guy out. but anybody can knock someone out with a lucky hit.

'Dirty' moves are much more effective.

May i also say your argument is a little biased.
When you talk about martial artist you talk about 6th dans, now 6th dan takes a LONG time to get to.
But when you talk about non-martial artists, you talk about skin head drunks.
If your going to match them up fairly, woud have A 6th dan, and a man who was a royal marine or something.
Since i could easily argue that a guy who's won over 20 street fights could easily beat a yellow belt.

shobhit7777777
05-01-2011, 02:15 PM
@JamesF1994

It's good to see that you are passionate about the martial arts but PLEASE do not blind your self to real life practicalities. Spinning kicks and hip-Throws ONLY work in the ring..with certain rules,restrictions and limits with a Referee constantly keeping an eye on the combatants. Street Fighting and more lethal self defense martial arts are more real life oriented and draw from years of practical experience of ACUALLY fighting in scenarios without rules or restriction and where your life is at stake.

Listen to itsame-mario...he's right. It all comes down to experience and natural skill. When you're fighting for your life or just in a street brawl...all the fancy throws and techniques come to naught. That's where the more practical martial arts like Krav Maga come in. I hope you realise WHY there is Krav Maga in the first place....because Judo, Kung Fu, Taekwondo, karate etc. are NOT practical for real life applications. Simple. End of. 'Nuff said.

Now the reason why we are opposed to the fancy martial arts being introduced into AC is because by their very nature and method of operation the Assassin's are like the SAS (Except the SAS is not exactly used for assassinations) they focus more on practical combat. They use every dirty trick in the book to get the job done. Simple. martial arts are not suited for a multiple opponent brawl in reality.....no matter what Youtube says.

Please get these notions out of your head as they might prove dangerous for you. Take our word for it and try to understand practicality over aesthetics.

@itsamea-mario

This thread reminds of the kid posting pics of Ninjas everywhere http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
"I can haz Nunchucks?!?!?!" LOL

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 02:32 PM
Yeah i'm not hating on martial arts, i fricken love martial arts, I'm a brown belt in traditional jiu jutsu, and i've been training various from of kickboxing and kung fu since i was a kid.
And though i don't doubt they're effective, it's more about wether i'd actually be able to use them.
First time i had a propper fight in school, even though i'd been doing kickboxing for about 1.5 years, i got beat. i was to used to just training and sparring, and i never managed to put any of the good moves into effect.
When fear and rage get a hold of you all the training you've had comes to very little, psychology plays a big part.

Which is why techniques such as krav maga are so effective, they're simple, they become more like muscle memory than anything else, and they are much more practical, and even lethal, these are techniques designed for military forces, not for showing off.

There's a great difference between knowing a technique, and knowing how to fight.

shobhit7777777
05-01-2011, 02:43 PM
Yeah i'm not hating on martial arts, i fricken love martial arts, I'm a brown belt in traditional jiu jutsu, and i've been training various from of kickboxing and kung fu since i was a kid.
And though i don't doubt they're effective, it's more about wether i'd actually be able to use them.
First time i had a propper fight in school, even though i'd been doing kickboxing for about 1.5 years, i got beat. i was to used to just training and sparring, and i never managed to put any of the good moves into effect.
When fear and rage get a hold of you all the training you've had comes to very little, psychology plays a big part.

Which is why techniques such as krav maga are so effective, they're simple, they become more like muscle memory than anything else, and they are much more practical, and even lethal, these are techniques designed for military forces, not for showing off.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I rather like Martial Arts myself..for the physical fitness and mental focus that they impart....for practical combat..na.
A Classmate of mine was heavily into martial arts. He was studying Taekwondo and went up till national level (this is in India BTW) he was the team captain and was pretty good...won medals and trophies. But I remember one night we got into an argument with a couple of local toughs. My friend in his overconfidence attacked one of these guys. The result was not pretty. The fella he attacked dodged and then latched onto my friend...he took him to the ground and pounded the **** out of him. We joined in and got our asses royally kicked http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif. The toughs were experienced and knew how to fight....there was a reason that they were the local tough guys in the first place http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
This is just one of many incidents (not with the same guy mind you..he learned his lesson)

And you are 100% right about the muscle memory part. The military systems are reliant on easy to learn and quick to master drills which the student remembers even in times of great stress. Otherwise it is just another pointless sparring session.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 03:49 PM
We are getting a little off topic here. The point is that any thug can throw a punch, which is the sort of fighting style that Ezio has adapted. I believe that an assassin would not be allowed to do this: it would give the assassin order a bad image, it is undisciplined and most of the moves that he does would not work. You say that many martial arts, such as the ones we have been discussing, would not be effective in a street fight. But unlike real life, there would not be dirt to throw up in people's eyes (unless you were in a desert), there would not be as many people fighting one person (unless if you really annoyed someone) and you would not prance around, 'strafing' and 'taunting'. My point is that people who buy the game like the flashy and 'sexy' styles of fighting. I do, you guys probably do, everybody loves a bit of flashy nonsense. So introducing a martial art to the game would be more exciting, more interesing for the player. I would love to see Ezio throw someone over his shoulder, pull his knife out and slit his throat (sounds a bit wrong). It's basic aesthetics. It would add more to the already fairly bulky combat gameplay. To be honest, the hand-to-hand is not as flashy as the sword work, it's what everybody would do and no matter how much 'experience' you have, a martial art would not only teach you techniques that you can then ADAPT for street fighting, but it also increases your stamina, your strength, your reflexes and your speed.

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 03:52 PM
Yeah but i don't really wan't to see an assassin doing spinning crescent kicks, and backflips.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 03:55 PM
PS the guy that knocked the other guy out used to go down to pikey camps and take on about four or five at a time and practice his karate, so the fact of the matter is that martial arts do work in street fighting. Perhaps you and your friend's scenarios were just unlucky or you weren't taught how to use it in a street fight. I'm a blue belt in judo (going for my brown next month) and i've used it three times in a street and won all three times: first one was during a rugby match when a guy half a foot taller than me started pushing me around, he threw a punch at me, i threw him and put him in a strangle and made him calm down; second one was when i was with a group of mates in town, two pikeys came up to my mate and started pushing him around, so i grabbed one, threw him and arm locked him; third time was at a party, the guy who was drunk saw me dancing with his girlfriend, he turned ugly, so i threw him and held him down until he calmed down.

DeSabellis
05-01-2011, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
Yeah but i don't really wan't to see an assassin doing spinning crescent kicks, and backflips.

I think you're completely right, and some people just watch way too many action movies.

Personally, I think the most effective fighting style would be the ones taught by the various militaries. You know... people who fight wars.

Flashy martial art moves are great for comic books, movies, television shows, and perhaps crappy video games. It would be equivalent to Desmond picking up a firearm and shooting like Christian Bale in Equilibrium- way too over the top and completely, utterly ineffective.

Besides- speed and power doesn't come from simply practicing martial arts. It comes from years of exercise.

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 04:05 PM
Erm, are you trying to impress me or...

Cos one rowdy rugby player and a drunk guy, only the pikeys sound like a challenge. and they're all talk.

But since we're on the topic of fights I did have two fights since then. both of which won. neither of which were against anyone particularly impressive by the way.

And why do you sound like a wool?

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 04:07 PM
Besides- speed and power doesn't come from simply practicing martial arts. It comes from years of exercise.

When learning a martial art, you develop particular muscles in certain parts of your body, the movements or your muscles develop neuron pathways in your brain, therefore make you faster, stronger and quicker.


Yeah but i don't really wan't to see an assassin doing spinning crescent kicks, and backflips.

I completely agree with you on that. Who wants to see a load of Jet Li rubbish? What I mean is that AC uses more simplistic martial art forms that look good. Most judo and karate is straightforward, but because it is done with speed, skill and grace, it looks really aesthetically pleasing.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 04:11 PM
what's a wool?

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 04:12 PM
You said aesthetically pleasing, i don't really think any of the japanese hand to hand styles are exactly nice looking.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 04:14 PM
You sound as if you are trying to make it out to be a contest of who you can beat up. Most people who you will fight will either be drunk, pikeys or sports players. They will not be, and never will be, police, FBI agents, marines or assassins.

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by JamesF1994:
what's a wool?

Woolyback, never mind.

Just your talk of rugby and pikeys.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 04:16 PM
they look better than brawling and flining wild punches

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by JamesF1994:
You sound as if you are trying to make it out to be a contest of who you can beat up. Most people who you will fight will either be drunk, pikeys or sports players. They will not be, and never will be, police, FBI agents, marines or assassins.

No.
But you started it.

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by JamesF1994:
they look better than brawling and flining wild punches

Ezio doesn't throw wild punches, he has atleast some technique.

Karate always gives me images of heavy gi's and skinny wrists. much prefer the chinese based styles.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 04:19 PM
Well now i wish i had never opened my mouth so that ********s like you could ridicule me. I was only making a suggestion on how to improve the gameplay and you find a way to blow it up. What a nice person you are.

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 04:23 PM
Well that was quite out of the blue.

First off i disagreed that fancy styles where nessecary.
Someone else made a comment about street fighters, and modern military systems. i agreed with them.
You argued that they where wrong.
I argued he was right.
We started going back on topic.
You suddenly said how you won three fights.
I commented on that.
I say i don't like japanese styles.
You call me a bad person?

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 04:27 PM
you ****ting on my idea was pretty mean

itsamea-mario
05-01-2011, 04:32 PM
Criticism, my friend, criticism.

I never out-right said it was a bad idea, just aspects. Don't get so angry, it's not the mental state a martial arts practitioner should have.

nighty night.

JamesF1994
05-01-2011, 04:35 PM
First off i disagreed that fancy styles where nessecary.
Someone else made a comment about street fighters, and modern military systems. i agreed with them.
You argued that they where wrong.
I argued he was right.
We started going back on topic.
You suddenly said how you won three fights.
I commented on that.
I say i don't like japanese styles.

I did not say that fancy styles were necessary. I just said they look good.
I did not disagree with the idea that military systems aren't effective (the army and the police use judo by the way)
I only brought up the idea of my fights because i wanted some examples to show you how martial arts can help in a street fight (they could have been about anyone)
All you have done is disagreed with me and have tried to ridicule me at every possible moment.
So yeah, i do call you a bad person.

shobhit7777777
05-01-2011, 04:45 PM
@JamesF1994

The thing is you mentioned karate and judo...while some of their throws and takedowns are effective the arts themselves are ineffective in practical applications and they do not look very aesthetically pleasing.

Krav Maga and other more practical forms of street-fighting look really brutal and ruthless. The type of violence we would like to see. I can easily picture a 15th century Assassin to chuck dirt..kick a guy in the nutsack and then knee him in the face. I and a lot of the others feel that the existant combat style
1.Looks good
2.Feels organic for an Assassin..especially Ezio..who was involved in gang fighting and generally living a tough life.

I completely agree with you on that. Who wants to see a load of Jet Li rubbish? What I mean is that AC uses more simplistic martial art forms that look good. Most judo and karate is straightforward, but because it is done with speed, skill and grace, it looks really aesthetically pleasing.

Now that you have made those points clear...I don't mind inclusion of basic throws and takedowns.

Basically what WE are against is the inclusion of flashy yet useless moves sets when we already have a brutal, effective and a sneaky combat system.
The Assassin's should appear to be the following:

1. Experienced street fighters
2. No formal training yet TONNES of sparring and practical experience
3. Improvised combat style..no fixed moves..use whatever is available
4. Be brutal and ruthless.
5. Be fast and quick. A punch to the torso..a kick to the groin and boom takedown.

The current combat style represents this.

I apologise if we came off as hostile or overtly critical but you DID mention Judo and Karate which brings to mind the images of spinning kicks and falcon punches. If we HAVE to include a proper martial art the let it be systema, Sambo, Krav etc.

Here's what we were talking about in terms of street fighting
Bas Rutten Bar Fighting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fWfxrPQG5U)

A good example from a game would be Ubi's own Splinter Cell Conviction. The takedowns are krav Maga inspired and they show ruthlessness and efficiency. They are quick, brutal and really good looking. They send the message of a No nonsense military operative across.

Anyway, Relax bro....no need to get hostile. Let's all take a step back and chill. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

NORTHBOERN1
05-01-2011, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by JamesF1994:
PS the guy that knocked the other guy out used to go down to pikey camps and take on about four or five at a time and practice his karate, so the fact of the matter is that martial arts do work in street fighting. Perhaps you and your friend's scenarios were just unlucky or you weren't taught how to use it in a street fight. I'm a blue belt in judo (going for my brown next month) and i've used it three times in a street and won all three times: first one was during a rugby match when a guy half a foot taller than me started pushing me around, he threw a punch at me, i threw him and put him in a strangle and made him calm down; second one was when i was with a group of mates in town, two pikeys came up to my mate and started pushing him around, so i grabbed one, threw him and arm locked him; third time was at a party, the guy who was drunk saw me dancing with his girlfriend, he turned ugly, so i threw him and held him down until he calmed down. I've been a grappler all my life, and have several years of TKD and hapkido under my belt. I got the chance to take judo for about a year, and in my opinion is one the most deadly and functional martial arts on the market. I wish Exio had one bone crushing throw...he grabs targets, and then only throws them back, WTH.

The funniest I've seen is BJJ guys getting into a tap out match with a judo guy, and right when the match starts they jump on their back because they're afraid to get thrown.

itsamea-mario
05-02-2011, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by shobhit7777777:
@JamesF1994

The thing is you mentioned karate and judo...while some of their throws and takedowns are effective the arts themselves are ineffective in practical applications and they do not look very aesthetically pleasing.

Krav Maga and other more practical forms of street-fighting look really brutal and ruthless. The type of violence we would like to see. I can easily picture a 15th century Assassin to chuck dirt..kick a guy in the nutsack and then knee him in the face. I and a lot of the others feel that the existant combat style
1.Looks good
2.Feels organic for an Assassin..especially Ezio..who was involved in gang fighting and generally living a tough life.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I completely agree with you on that. Who wants to see a load of Jet Li rubbish? What I mean is that AC uses more simplistic martial art forms that look good. Most judo and karate is straightforward, but because it is done with speed, skill and grace, it looks really aesthetically pleasing.

Now that you have made those points clear...I don't mind inclusion of basic throws and takedowns.

Basically what WE are against is the inclusion of flashy yet useless moves sets when we already have a brutal, effective and a sneaky combat system.
The Assassin's should appear to be the following:

1. Experienced street fighters
2. No formal training yet TONNES of sparring and practical experience
3. Improvised combat style..no fixed moves..use whatever is available
4. Be brutal and ruthless.
5. Be fast and quick. A punch to the torso..a kick to the groin and boom takedown.

The current combat style represents this.

I apologise if we came off as hostile or overtly critical but you DID mention Judo and Karate which brings to mind the images of spinning kicks and falcon punches. If we HAVE to include a proper martial art the let it be systema, Sambo, Krav etc.

Here's what we were talking about in terms of street fighting
Bas Rutten Bar Fighting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fWfxrPQG5U)

A good example from a game would be Ubi's own Splinter Cell Conviction. The takedowns are krav Maga inspired and they show ruthlessness and efficiency. They are quick, brutal and really good looking. They send the message of a No nonsense military operative across.

Anyway, Relax bro....no need to get hostile. Let's all take a step back and chill. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but not so much bas rutten.
To be fair i should say that in jiu jutsu we do do weakners such as throat attacks and groin shots in order to de stabalise our opponants and get into postion, but even our sensei agrees alot of the moves are highly inneffective in a real situation, and the more basic moves are more likely to be useful.

You can't really say a articular style is better than another style, when it comes down to it, it only matters who is the better fighter, which is why the simplicity of krav maga is so useful.
All the training in the world is useless if you can't use it.

But more to the point, Judo would be AWFUL for this game.

terzho
05-02-2011, 03:16 AM
Um yeah just butting in here because i've seen you guys aruging about how they shouldn't put throws in and how there aren't any. Well when you counter a grab from behind there's a throw so don't know if you guys haven't noticed that.

itsamea-mario
05-02-2011, 03:34 AM
Indeed, and i think it should just stay at that.

JamesF1994
05-02-2011, 03:59 AM
I didn't mean to suggest judo or karate as the only two options. I've just looked up Krav Maga and it looks absolutely stunning and brutal. If I knew about this, I would have opted for this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But somebody mentioned that Ezio does only grabs them and then either punches, kicks, headbutts or throws his opponent backwards. Instead of just throwing them backwards, perhaps he could use a combination of Krav Maga and Judo to take them out in one go.

JamesF1994
05-02-2011, 04:05 AM
People are saying that the H2H combat system should be left as nothing but brawling and street fighting.

The term 'assassin' implies that it his job, his profession, to kill people. Surely he would not just revert to the way that everybody fights?

itsamea-mario
05-02-2011, 04:15 AM
I know, i don't want him to just be a mad flailing brawler, but he doesn't need to learn an art.

The ability to adapt and improvise matter, not everybody will fight the way you want them to, the way you've learned how to defend against.

More on topic, i think the counter to grab throws work, but generally the assassin is fighting multiple targets, and a throw really isn't suitable for that situation. he wants his opponant incapacitated and distanced as quickly as possible so he can move on to the rest of them.

Now if it's another assassin set in the past, it's likley they won't have a chance to learn either an oriental style or a military system.
Since modern miliutary systems didn't exist yet, and oriental styles weren't highly popular in the western world.
So they'd just use what works, who know they may even have their own technique.

JamesF1994
05-02-2011, 04:30 AM
Yep, I see your point. Ok, sorry people, should not have started the post. Will not bother you again.

Summary: counter grabs are good, but the combinations look a little shabby

itsamea-mario
05-02-2011, 04:34 AM
Now i feel bad.

Okay, the current H2h is a little, un refined, though it does it's job it could have a little more martial influence.

But nothing like throws and holds, and nothing as crazy as flipkicks.

JamesF1994
05-02-2011, 04:43 AM
definitely no holds or backflips or any athletic crap, but at least some brutal looking throws

itsamea-mario
05-02-2011, 04:51 AM
Well, perhaps some more of the sweepish like throws, but not full body and definately no sacrifice throws.

I do think the counters need to be abit more brutal, in AC1 there was things like leg breaks, they were cool, they need to make a return.

Inorganic9_2
05-02-2011, 05:00 AM
Anyone ever seen Ehsan Shafiq? :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CIy9ZZEQE


I train in kung fu, but I do like to make the distinction between techniques which look good or are done for fitness and those which can be practical. We also do self-defence in class, too. We have covered things such as the good old ear clap and a couple of other things we see Ezio using.

I, for one, would much prefer to see an Assassin using hard-hitting, efficient techniques for hand to hand combat, rather than any martial art (unless they have specific reason for learning one)

itsamea-mario
05-02-2011, 05:07 AM
Cool, do you know what style of kung fu? (it is sort of an umbrella term)

I do Lau Gar, it's quite good, contains a lot of shorthand techniques, which can be practial IRL and sometimes in the ring.

I would like to train propper Krav maga, but lack the oppurtunity.

Inorganic9_2
05-03-2011, 04:15 AM
I train in Nam Pai Chuan.

Obviously, elbows and such are out f the question for sparring, but we do elbows for more practical application (also things like grab breaks, knee kicks etc.)