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blastomatic1759
10-23-2005, 07:55 AM
Today in 1941 U-106 lost the entire watchcrew on the conning tower, due to rough seas , the replacement watch popped the hatch to relieve them and discovered they were all gone......
i noticed that alot , if you fell over on a Uboat you pretty much were screwed , there was no turning around to pick you up. i wonder why that is , someone had to see/hear you fall over.( i know i would be screaming like a girl if i fell over) I guess if the seas where to rough it would be to risky to turn around and find someone in a storm or whatever.

blastomatic1759
10-23-2005, 07:55 AM
Today in 1941 U-106 lost the entire watchcrew on the conning tower, due to rough seas , the replacement watch popped the hatch to relieve them and discovered they were all gone......
i noticed that alot , if you fell over on a Uboat you pretty much were screwed , there was no turning around to pick you up. i wonder why that is , someone had to see/hear you fall over.( i know i would be screaming like a girl if i fell over) I guess if the seas where to rough it would be to risky to turn around and find someone in a storm or whatever.

Wyrmo
10-23-2005, 10:28 AM
Well, in rough weather with the diesels running you'd have a hard time making yourself heard...
You'd be better off having a metal-barrel with you to bang on and hope whomever's stationed at the hydrophone at the moment hear you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dominicrigg
10-23-2005, 11:02 AM
I think in the case you are talking about they had the hatch shut, so it must have been stormy ( i didnt know they shut the hatch to the watch crew, seems a bit strange)

If its shut the people inside wouldnt know anything for a long while i guess. By the time they did it would be impossible to find them.

At night also pretty much within seconds someone would be hard to find if they fell overboard in a storm, and in the atlantic i think you die within about 2 minutes or something similar due to the cold and shock of hitting the cold. It just stops your heart. So all in all its a bit pointless going looking for someone though it sounds harsh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Maj_Solo
10-23-2005, 03:49 PM
That is why I always keep the hatch open, to ventilate the boat but also want everyone below to feel each wave. So if it gets too wet down there we dive, and every shower they get down there they can ask if everyone is ok up there. I think it is stupid to send people up there in a storm and close the hatch completely and not caring for them ..... I would have installed some simple system to know if you had a man overboard.

and turning around is not practical, you hit the reverse and go back in your own track so that one does not confuse onself.

It is difficult to undestand how they could send people up when it is that dangerous. I wouldn't, I would take a vacation from the war.

Kaleun1961
10-23-2005, 04:30 PM
While it was rough up there in a storm, it was still an ordeal for those inside the boat as well. Inside the boat you would have all this motion but no corresponding visuals, so it was easy to become nauseated. Outside the boat your eyes can somehow do something for you. That is why some people cannot read while a passenger in a moving vehicle. If I try to read in a car, I soon develop a headache and the urge to hurl.

While it seemed cruel to shut the watch up there, it was for a practical reason. All that water getting in would make the boat heavier, thus impeding the trim and would have to be pumped out. I imagine the need for a warning device was either not perceived, or was somehow not invented.

While at sea, almost all U-boat captains kept the internal bulkhead doors open. Closed doors were bad for morale. There was one Kaleun who was a stickler for the rules and insisted that such hatches\doors should always be closed. In a pre-war training accident, his sub sank in shallow water in the Baltic. One compartment was flooded and the boat sank. Although the men in that area drowned, the others were saved by the closed door. This bought them enough time to don rescue gear and attempt to escape. Some men died while escaping from the sub, but the rest survived and were rescued.

rory208
10-24-2005, 01:37 AM
Is that factual?<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
While it was rough up there in a storm, it was still an ordeal for those inside the boat as well. Inside the boat you would have all this motion but no corresponding visuals, so it was easy to become nauseated. Outside the boat your eyes can somehow do something for you. That is why some people cannot read while a passenger in a moving vehicle. If I try to read in a car, I soon develop a headache and the urge to hurl.

While it seemed cruel to shut the watch up there, it was for a practical reason. All that water getting in would make the boat heavier, thus impeding the trim and would have to be pumped out. I imagine the need for a warning device was either not perceived, or was somehow not invented.

While at sea, almost all U-boat captains kept the internal bulkhead doors open. Closed doors were bad for morale. There was one Kaleun who was a stickler for the rules and insisted that such hatches\doors should always be closed. In a pre-war training accident, his sub sank in shallow water in the Baltic. One compartment was flooded and the boat sank. Although the men in that area drowned, the others were saved by the closed door. This bought them enough time to don rescue gear and attempt to escape. Some men died while escaping from the sub, but the rest survived and were rescued. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Goose_Green
10-24-2005, 05:07 AM
I have just read of this occurance. I am currently reading Clay Blair's excellent book; Hitler's U-boat War - The Hunters 1939-1942 (A highly recommended read), in which the following passage is found, and I quote;

"The veteren type IXB U-106, sailing fresh from France with plenty of fuel, joined the chase. She had a new skipper, Hermann Rasch, age 27, replacing Ritterkreuz holder Jurgen Oesten, who had been promoted to command Combat Flotilla 9 at Brest. A weird and dsturbing episode had occurred on U-106 after shortly sailing. A gale had suddenly struck the boat in a following sea; a giant wave from astern had "pooped" the bridge, washing all four men on topside watch into the sea. The U-106 had cruised blindly for nearly an hour before the mishap was discovered. Rasch had reversed course to mount a search, but had found no trace of the four men. One consequence of this mishap was that Rasch had to stand bridge watches in place of the lost watch officer, imposing a tremendous added strain on himself."

A very sad story - but one can never beat mother nature - the ocean was the enemy all along!

Rasch would later on the same patrol attack two big tankers and shoot two torpedoes at each, he missed one tanker but hit the old 9,000 ton US Navy fleet oiler Salinas. Although he claimed that the ship blew up and disintegrated the ship in fact survived.

Sgt_Starbuck
10-24-2005, 09:06 AM
I can't find myself getting too misty about some guys who blew our ships out of the water throwing thousands of sailors into a freezing ocean of fire and in some cases machine gunning them if they didn't burn to death.

Sarge

Goose_Green
10-24-2005, 09:57 AM
I'm not saying I was getting misty - It was a sad story like the countless thousands that made up WWII - the real tragedy was the millions who would die because of one man's vision who thought he could take on the world - of course I am refering to Hitler.

Every soldier, airman and sailor regardless of their nationality was simply doing their duty!

And you think it was only the Germans who were the nasty ones - I hate to dispell the truth but all sides may have committed acts that we may consider barbaric - War is hell and it brings out the good and evil in all of us!

Maj_Solo
10-25-2005, 12:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
While it was rough up there in a storm, it was still an ordeal for those inside the boat as well. Inside the boat you would have all this motion but no corresponding visuals, so it was easy to become nauseated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet it was, I would have puked at least the first day, but some people can take it. One summer we sailed around in a 15m long overrigged sailboat and baught beer in every harbour. When we left Skagen at north tip of Denmark for Gothenburg Sweden the boat was about 1.5 dm lower in the water cause all the cases of beer that was stacked inside the boat.

Anyways, we left port and we didn't understand the Danish weather forecast, it is their dialect. Say swedish is english then the report could have sounded like this when a swede listen to danish;

"Weeda unch, clea ski, wrong winds, ort en ort ort ist, 6 maybe m/s, towards eve wrosh, two and twenty degr and half past twelve".

So we said what the hell and steared out of the harbour, weather was perfect, clear and less than 5 m/s ocean like a mirror. All of us had been racing for several years and thought we could handle anything. The weather soon changed and we had 18 m/s, overcast, but still superb visibility something like 20000m.

I took the rudder and they went below, closed the hatch and started to pop beers. When we started weather was nice and so the Genua and full main sails was up on this over rigged boat. overriggging is something you can do if you mainly race on big lakes inland. The winds are usually weaker and if you want to win competitions you can take away the original mast and put a bigger one there and buy bigger sails. Your handicap number changes but still there is that slight edge there now.

Anyways, I am having fun, max sails up on this overrigged thing wind hitting us from 220AOB, boat leaning about 30-40 degree which was not so good since the tip of the Genua was dragging in the water, dispite this we were doing 16 knots. Which made the boat catch up the waves so I had to start sailing this surfing monster like you would with a small one man 4-5m boat who uses the same technique as a surfer on a surfboard. Anayways, me being so active on the rudder following the waves made the boat roll a lot.

But did they react? Noooooo. The owner of the boat looked at the watch, popped the hatch, looked around and said: what the hell happened to the weather? how many knots are we doing? Maybe we should change sails ..... nah!". He had a quick look around and said look, and from the south at half wind came one of those old original Americas Cup boats made in wood, he had half sails up but still cought up and passed us in no time, so they must have been doing at least 20 knots. Whole crew of about six men sitting on the side with their legs dangling over the side looking at us with an expression like http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif, then the owner closed the hatch and dissapeared.

Rigged for winds less than 7 m/s running in 18 m/s winds we crossed over there in half the time it normally would take and we didn't even use Spinnaker.

There is much more to this story what happened next, but I just say .... Some people ... some people ... you know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

When got into harbour on the swedish side we started repairs on things that almost broke cause of overstress. Some of the stuff just barely held together, the rudder was badly damaged.

Sgt_Starbuck
10-25-2005, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Goose_Green:
I'm not saying I was getting misty - It was a sad story like the countless thousands that made up WWII - the real tragedy was the millions who would die because of one man's vision who thought he could take on the world - of course I am refering to Hitler.

Every soldier, airman and sailor regardless of their nationality was simply doing their duty!

And you think it was only the Germans who were the nasty ones - I hate to dispell the truth but all sides may have committed acts that we may consider barbaric - War is hell and it brings out the good and evil in all of us! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure it ruined their day but I believe even old mariners had the sense to tie themselves in position in heavy seas.

Sarge

Kaleun1961
10-25-2005, 10:58 AM
Nice story, Solo. When you were talking about the wind speeds I was mentally conjuring up how it would have looked in the game. 18 mps is even higher than the maximum in the game, so I can imagine how much you guys were going through. Too rough for the deck gun, eh?

Kaleun1961
10-25-2005, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Goose_Green:
I'm not saying I was getting misty - It was a sad story like the countless thousands that made up WWII - the real tragedy was the millions who would die because of one man's vision who thought he could take on the world - of course I am refering to Hitler.

Every soldier, airman and sailor regardless of their nationality was simply doing their duty!

And you think it was only the Germans who were the nasty ones - I hate to dispell the truth but all sides may have committed acts that we may consider barbaric - War is hell and it brings out the good and evil in all of us! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been born and raised Canadian and learned from history classes and books that we were the good guys and the Axis were the bad guys, and for most of my life I have viewed in just that way. When I hear the word "atrocity" I think of the SS razing Uradour sur Glane in France, the Einsatz Gruppen in Russia, the Holocaust and Japanese death march in Bataan and such.

Very, very little if anything is mentioned about what the victors did. We are convinced that because we were the democratic defenders who righteously were the victors that we are free of the taint of war crimes and atrocities. For the most part I believed this was so, but lately I have been forced to face the truth that in war, it may indeed be true that there are no innocents.

What has caused me to revisit this theme is not the works of historical revisionists or Holocaust deniers, but an honest examination of lesser known events which have not received their fair share of publicity and are only recently coming to light.

We take it as given that Nazi Germany committed war crimes, genocide and atrocities, which labelled the Nazis as criminals of the worst sort. I have read many books and seen many documentaries and even met a few Holocaust survivors so that I have no doubts at all that it happened. In addition to this is the record of reprisals and war crimes themselves, such as the execution of P.O.W.'s. Likewise the Japanese have a shameful record of occupation and treatment of prisoners.

Quite rightly we have held the perpetrators of these crimes in contempt. As we were the victors, we were able to administer judgement and pass sentence on the likes of Goring, Jodl, Tojo, etc. What is missing is the trial of the perpetrators of the Katyn Massacre, the Ukrainian famine, the Gulag, etc.

What the Nazis did on Soviet soil was inexcusable and the desire of the Russians for revenge was motivated by what was done to them. When the Red Army swept in to Germany, a wave of looting and rapine was unleashed which was indescribably horrible. Whatever the motivation for the enmity between Naziism and Communism, masses of innocents on both sides suffered. It is particularly difficult for women to understand why raging armies must rape the women of their adversaries.

I also have found it disturbing to have read of the great numbers of German soldiers who died in Allied captivity. On the part of the Russians it was due to deliberate contempt and the motivation for revenge. It seems the Western allies treated their prisoners with indifference. At the end of the war they bagged huge numbers of prisoners and incarcerated them in open air camps, with inadequate sanitation, housing and dietary conditions. I do not believe the outrageous claim that over a million died in this manner, but I do believe that it was certainly in the thousands.

Being the side that claimed the moral high ground, this cannot but be regarded as a mark against our record, which somehow mars our victory. Yes, what Hitler did was contemptible, but did that give us license to do the same? I am not equating our treatment of German P.O.W.'s to Hitler's. I am just pointing out and echoing Goose Green's statement that indeed all sides may have committed atrocities.

W.Irving
10-25-2005, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
It is particularly difficult for women to understand why raging armies must rape the women of their adversaries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't have to be a woman to be unable to comprehend this. Makes you think perhaps torture and death squads aren't such bad ideas after all..

Kaleun1961
10-25-2005, 12:26 PM
Most individual acts of rape in war are, I think, crimes of opportunity. A soldier feels that he can get away with it and does it. The mass rapes that we read of like when the Red Army took Berlin or the Japanese with their "comfort women" are so much more hideously vile, as they reflect a collective thought and action to perpetrate. One is a spur of the moment crime, the other is done with cold calculation.

An example of the latter is the mass raping of the Muslim women in the former Yugoslavia. That was done as a deliberate thing, the reason being that such women would be dishonoured and could never marry and have children, who would in turn grow up to be soldiers in a future war.

Maj_Solo
10-25-2005, 06:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
Nice story, Solo. When you were talking about the wind speeds I was mentally conjuring up how it would have looked in the game. 18 mps is even higher than the maximum in the game, so I can imagine how much you guys were going through. Too rough for the deck gun, eh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


It ain't as bad as it sounds, actually it is calm. We are going ~~with~~ the wind surfing on the waves, and I was maneuvering to stay on the same wave as long as possible, so very little water washed on deck. When you sail like this it becomes quite quiet, the most dominant sound is the constant zzzzZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzz from water rushing by, and then there is a rumble from the ocean but I wouldn't say the wind is howling.... no ... it gets quite quiet.

Every wave on the entire sea had white tips that was whipped by the wind, one thing is a wave that builds and tip by itself, another is a wave that build but get whipped by the wind so bad the top gets destroyed, so the ocean was pretty white.

Now if we were to go around and against the wind it would have been torture, and if doing that for too many hours in those conditions the rigg might fall off, even if it was a ocean going boat it was rigged for inland sailing so the strain might have been too much.

The other guys were not doing anything, they were drinking beer or sleeping. I yelled at them but they didn't hear me, and I couldn't take my hand off the rudder that was at a 15 degree angle creating a long hole in the water behind he boat that when it closed resulted in a white spray upwards. If I would have taken my hands off the rudder the boat would have turned up against the wind and when half way it would definitely been leaning 90 degree with all the sails in the water. And theys inside the boat could have gotten hurt.

I was cool, but I was not the owner of the boat and I didn't know for what weather the boat and each sail was dimensioned for so I hoped the owner would come up.

But as I said when you have experience from surfing waves with a boat the whole experience gets kinda calm. ayve they didn't understand what was going on. But he did show up when we was 2/3 over and didn't want to change sails and whent down again.

Now, surfing waves it is the waves that dictate how you sail. So when we reached the Swedish coast we were off by about 10km. And to turn up against the winf just a little bit more we had to change sails.

One of they guys was Swedish 'seal' so we pointed at him and said 'you go!'. So we put full equipment on him and hooked him to the safety line and then saw him crawl all they way up there in the front where he tried to jam himself in there real hard in the pulpit. He was needed there to fasten and guide the new sail up and take care of the big one coming down.

For this procedure we went up against the wind since the wind was pulling so hard in the loose genua it bended so har in those rails the sail go up in so the sail didn't want to come down. The poor guy bounced up and down and was hovering in the air when we went over the wave tops, he got scratched knees from it, but everything whent well. And we contined with minimum fore sails and 1/3 main sail.

Usually nothing bad happens but all it takes is for you to slip or get hit by something and get hurt and not being able to function. Then it can get dangerous fast. From fun to dangerous in a second.

Going with the wind is pleasant. The other way is torture. If your boat also can keep the same speed as the waves when you are going with the wind you might loose repect for how bad the weather actually have turned.

And also remember I said it been nice weather before, the sea never had time to build up before we reached swedish side. Wave tops were about 6m at most. That's why I like it the way it look like in the sim Enigma, it is like it looks just when a bad weather front just hit you. The sea is generally calm and you see curls on the water surface and here and there you see what we in Swedish call 'blackies', water that darkens when extra hard wind sweeps down at local spots on the ocean. For safety reasons those are important to read if you are on a sail boat, to try and guess their power.

A completely different thing was another summer trying to leave sweden against the wind outside Marstrand, a fishing village ouside Gothenburg, you know waves build up aginst the shore. We were trying get loose from the shore but couldn't cause the waves were about 15m high and the wave length was not long but short so the waves were very very steep. We used best sail setup we knew how and also pushed with the diesel engine but when we realised we were standing still we gave up and turned around.

Where was I, I was hanging overboard puking. And I didn't stop. So I got tired of puking and roared at the owner to give me the frigging rudder. Once I held the rudder I was fine. It is that way with me, I fly, I drive the car, I steer the boat, then I am fine, someone else do it and I might puke. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So being a Kerleun in SHIII is perfect, I direct the boat, and I am sitting and a confy stable chair ...

Tigerboat
10-25-2005, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Very, very little if anything is mentioned about what the victors did. We are convinced that because we were the democratic defenders who righteously were the victors that we are free of the taint of war crimes and atrocities. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


This is true. There is an excellent documentary that came out last year called "The Fog of War" featuring former defense secretary Robert McNamara, who worked with the generals directing air actions in WWII. He admitted that if America had lost the war with Japan that he and others would have been tried as war criminals for having burned to death hundreds and thousands of men, women and children in the deliberate fire-bombing of Japanese cities. These were wooden cities and the incendiaries created storms of fire. His admissions and descriptions of his experiences were riveting, and not much was made of these atrocities in the history of the victors. The lesson he stressed was that proportionality should be a part of war.

blastomatic1759
10-25-2005, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Goose_Green:
I'm not saying I was getting misty - It was a sad story like the countless thousands that made up WWII - the real tragedy was the millions who would die because of one man's vision who thought he could take on the world - of course I am refering to Hitler.

Every soldier, airman and sailor regardless of their nationality was simply doing their duty!

And you think it was only the Germans who were the nasty ones - I hate to dispell the truth but all sides may have committed acts that we may consider barbaric - War is hell and it brings out the good and evil in all of us! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup alot of people dont take notice to the other nations actions . seems like alot of people are all focused on how evil and horrible the germans were. The Laconia incident is one that comes to mind. theres another one too , that mentions Uboat survivors being shot in the water while they were swimming toward a ship.i cant recall the Uboat or the vessel name involved though. but ooooh the germans were this evil war machine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif noone seems to think about how nice of a guy Stalin was , or the large bunch of people in Japan that could walk around at night without a flashlight. I guess that is an advantage of nuclear warfare , the whole glowing in the dark thing... but anyway i totally agree with what you said.

AO1_AW_SW_USN
10-27-2005, 08:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blastomatic1759:
Today in 1941 U-106 lost the entire watchcrew on the conning tower, due to rough seas , the replacement watch popped the hatch to relieve them and discovered they were all gone......
i noticed that alot , if you fell over on a Uboat you pretty much were screwed , there was no turning around to pick you up. i wonder why that is , someone had to see/hear you fall over.( i know i would be screaming like a girl if i fell over) I guess if the seas where to rough it would be to risky to turn around and find someone in a storm or whatever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


WARNING: THIS CONTAINS GRAPHIC MATERIAL

After spending over 7 years in the United States Navy, I€ve seen some terrible things happened to people onboard ships.

One guy fell down a vertical trunk (a ladder that goes straight down into the bowls of the ship) he fell from 2nd Deck to 6th Deck (like falling down a 4 story building€s elevator shaft). He busted every bone in his body€¦ but lived.

Another guy was horribly mauled because of a lack of attention. He was with me and my fellow Ordnanceman while we were de-arming the recovering aircraft that was supporting Operation Southern Watch in 1999. There was an F/A-18C Hornet on Catapult 1, and this guys was behind that aircraft. The JBD (Jet Blast Deflector) was up and this Hornet needed a burner shot (afterburner shot) because he was carrying heavy ordnance. The Shooter signaled the CAT 1 operator to fire the CAT shuttle and the aircraft took off. The panel operator on the JBD was getting trained for qualification when he set the JBD down too early€¦ while the aircraft was still on deck with full afterburners. My buddy, who was about to retire in 7 months was blown clear down the deck against the non-skid deck coating that puts human skin to a terrible grinding. When we finally caught up to him there was no skin on his face or hands€¦. It was cleaned to the bone.

But the most horrifying thing I€ve seen is what happened to this guy who worked in the Engineering Department during a six-month deployment to the Persian Gulf. He received a €œCare Package€ from his wife and kids. €œCare Packages€ are postal packages that are sent by family, loved ones or perfect strangers that boosts the morale of troops, airman and sailors. This wife of his sent him a video. He was thinking it was of her and his kids, but what the video reveled was her with another man in bed. Her only words were €œConsider this an announcement for divorce€. The few witnesses that was around said the guy quietly stood up, turned off the VCR and left the berthing space (crew€s bedroom). A couple of guys left behind him to consult him and caught up with him in the hangar bay. They said they were about 100 feet (about 31 meters) when the guy jumped over the side.

The seas were really rough at the time. There was 65 Mph (20 meters) of wind with a sea state of 5 (huge swells on the surface). We were traveling about 25 knots with no moon. So when the guy jumped over the side€¦ he was gone. Even with GPS tracking, to pinpoint the exact location, we did not find him after 3/12 hours of searching the sea.

So, when someone who fell overboard in WWII, they were equally screwed. We enjoy technology in today€s military world but it doesn€t always work as advertised€¦ so in a less technical military as in WWII, it was coin flip to recover personnel from the depths of Neptune€s Domain.

Pr0metheus 1962
10-27-2005, 08:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AO1_AW_SW_USN:
But the most horrifying thing I€ve seen is what happened to this guy who worked in the Engineering Department during a six-month deployment to the Persian Gulf. He received a €œCare Package€ from his wife and kids. €œCare Packages€ are postal packages that are sent by family, loved ones or perfect strangers that boosts the morale of troops, airman and sailors. This wife of his sent him a video. He was thinking it was of her and his kids, but what the video reveled was her with another man in bed. Her only words were €œConsider this an announcement for divorce€. The few witnesses that was around said the guy quietly stood up, turned off the VCR and left the berthing space (crew€s bedroom). A couple of guys left behind him to consult him and caught up with him in the hangar bay. They said they were about 100 feet (about 31 meters) when the guy jumped over the side... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure about that one? It seems I've heard a variant of that story before. It just sounds too much like an urban legend.

AO1_AW_SW_USN
10-27-2005, 08:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AO1_AW_SW_USN:
But the most horrifying thing I€ve seen is what happened to this guy who worked in the Engineering Department during a six-month deployment to the Persian Gulf. He received a €œCare Package€ from his wife and kids. €œCare Packages€ are postal packages that are sent by family, loved ones or perfect strangers that boosts the morale of troops, airman and sailors. This wife of his sent him a video. He was thinking it was of her and his kids, but what the video reveled was her with another man in bed. Her only words were €œConsider this an announcement for divorce€. The few witnesses that was around said the guy quietly stood up, turned off the VCR and left the berthing space (crew€s bedroom). A couple of guys left behind him to consult him and caught up with him in the hangar bay. They said they were about 100 feet (about 31 meters) when the guy jumped over the side... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure about that one? It seems I've heard a variant of that story before. It just sounds too much like an urban legend. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, "Dear John" letters like causes this to happen. One guy was so distraught that he went to the mess decks and bashed his head with a ketchup bottle until he was stopped. He fractured his skull and was medically discharged.

I was there when this one happened. It has happened several times in the US Navy and there's no way to prevent it except Suicide Awareness training.

Kaleun1961
10-27-2005, 09:03 PM
Wow. It takes a wicked heart to do that to a man serving away from home. It takes two to tango, of course, which means there is also a scumbag fellow who takes a military man's spouse while he is away from home. Such guys are lowlifes, and in a situation like that it should almost be a law that the soldier gets to go home and shoot the swine.

Now that women are serving in greater numbers I suppose they have to deal with "Dear Jane" letters.

AO1_AW_SW_USN
10-27-2005, 09:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
Wow. It takes a wicked heart to do that to a man serving away from home. It takes two to tango, of course, which means there is also a scumbag fellow who takes a military man's spouse while he is away from home. Such guys are lowlifes, and in a situation like that it should almost be a law that the soldier gets to go home and shoot the swine.

Now that women are serving in greater numbers I suppose they have to deal with "Dear Jane" letters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's horriable!

My wife told me of a lot of women who were crying their eyes out when the ship pulled away from the pier, then when the ship was out of sight they all gathered at the local grocery store and met up with their "6 Month Man".

It's sad really, because 30% of the men on some of the ships have a "Girl in Every Port".

I, on the other hand, was faithful and did not leave the ship not once in every port visit on my last 6 month cruise (patrol).

Maj_Solo
10-28-2005, 05:06 AM
Question is also, was it the wife that sent the mail?

The_Silent_O
10-28-2005, 11:43 AM
Check Snopes...

video bye bye (http://www.snopes.com/military/videobye.asp)

This whole video thing is not necessarily true...I heard a 'variation' of this occuring to a Army Soldier during Desert Storm. So many variations makes it seem improbable that it is true.

I was a Dear John recipient (girlfriend only, who was about five years older than me) during desert storm, but ended up with a much better Girlfriend who became the MRS (Younger, and need I say, tall Norwegian - american)...

...I tend to remember the better aspects of the war, like two of my soldiers who had babies two days apart just as we were heading home.

Still, the most memorable Christmas with our makeshift "Christmas Rock" and gift exchange (non-alcholic, of course).

And being invited over to the next camp to watch the unrated movie version of "9 1/2" weeks with the female officers of a quartermaster unit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif ...no worries we were perfect gentleman...but it did make for an interesting 2 hours!

AO1_AW_SW_USN
10-28-2005, 06:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Silent_O:
Check Snopes...

video bye bye (http://www.snopes.com/military/videobye.asp)

This whole video thing is not necessarily true...I heard a 'variation' of this occuring to a Army Soldier during Desert Storm. So many variations makes it seem improbable that it is true.

I was a Dear John recipient (girlfriend only, who was about five years older than me) during desert storm, but ended up with a much better Girlfriend who became the MRS (Younger, and need I say, tall Norwegian - american)...

...I tend to remember the better aspects of the war, like two of my soldiers who had babies two days apart just as we were heading home.

Still, the most memorable Christmas with our makeshift "Christmas Rock" and gift exchange (non-alcholic, of course).

And being invited over to the next camp to watch the unrated movie version of "9 1/2" weeks with the female officers of a quartermaster unit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif ...no worries we were perfect gentleman...but it did make for an interesting 2 hours! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Believe what you will but like I said before, situations like this causes suicide throughout the armed service. Although the "Video Story" may have variations, dosen't that tell you that this a common practice or that it's happened before?

Guys (and gals) get Dear John/Jane letters all the time... especially at the start of a deployment. Not all of them end in suicide either. Unfortunatly that one did, and the guy was a shipmate of mine that I knew well for two years.

Chrystine
10-28-2005, 07:13 PM
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€œ The few witnesses that was around said the guy quietly stood up, turned off the VCR and left the berthing space (crew€s bedroom). A couple of guys left behind him to consult him and caught up with him in the hangar bay. They said they were about 100 feet (about 31 meters) when the guy jumped over the side...€

The tragic element there is deeper than is discernable looking solely at the surface (appearance) of the thing.
As if the triggering €˜cause€ (the shock at seeing the video wasn€t the actual €˜cause,€ but I€ll refer to it as such for simplicity sake) weren€t tragic enough, it is the more so that the reaction was decided upon and executed with finality in so short a period of time.
The reality is, anyone who would do such a thing (send such a video, let-alone for the moment the infidelity to begin with) is a shallow, base, despicable human being and not worthy of the one they€ve simultaneously betrayed and intentionally insulted & offended.
Conversely, the latter is deserving of someone far superior (a value even the most mediocre would satisfy) €" and paying a life for something of lesser value is a deplorable tragedy.

Any life forfeited from other than natural cause(s) ought be given in service of something which surpasses its-own value €" and that is very rare and exceedingly difficult to accomplish.
It is such a shame that tragic squandering of life is not equally rare and even more difficult €"
It is, alas, all-too-common and all-too-easy . . .

Best,
~ C.

*

AO1_AW_SW_USN
10-28-2005, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chrystine:
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€œ The few witnesses that was around said the guy quietly stood up, turned off the VCR and left the berthing space (crew€s bedroom). A couple of guys left behind him to consult him and caught up with him in the hangar bay. They said they were about 100 feet (about 31 meters) when the guy jumped over the side...€

The tragic element there is deeper than is discernable looking solely at the surface (appearance) of the thing.
As if the triggering €˜cause€ (the shock at seeing the video wasn€t the actual €˜cause,€ but I€ll refer to it as such for simplicity sake) weren€t tragic enough, it is the more so that the reaction was decided upon and executed with finality in so short a period of time.
The reality is, anyone who would do such a thing (send such a video, let-alone for the moment the infidelity to begin with) is a shallow, base, despicable human being and not worthy of the one they€ve simultaneously betrayed and intentionally insulted & offended.
Conversely, the latter is deserving of someone far superior (a value even the most mediocre would satisfy) €" and paying a life for something of lesser value is a deplorable tragedy.

Any life forfeited from other than natural cause(s) ought be given in service of something which surpasses its-own value €" and that is very rare and exceedingly difficult to accomplish.
It is such a shame that tragic squandering of life is not equally rare and even more difficult €"
It is, alas, all-too-common and all-too-easy . . .

Best,
~ C.

* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well spoken with a superlative use of the English Language.

Chrystine
10-28-2005, 07:37 PM
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Thank you sir.

Best,
~ C.

*