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Afromike1
10-15-2009, 09:55 PM
My problem with online servers is that most people hang around really high altitudes in order to reach their aircraft's MAXIMUM capabilities. Is this realistic? I don't think I've ever seen WW2 aircraft footage where they fly around 6.5k altitude. Weren't fighters, historically, meant to intercept bombers/ground pounders? If you were that high up in the air doesn't it defeat the purpose of fighting bombers because bombers have very low climb rates and so fly from low-mid altitude?

What was the normal altitude that squadrons would fly at?

RSS-Martin
10-15-2009, 10:10 PM
Have you had a look at documentations about fighters and especially the pilots of the time? In a lot of interviews you hear at whicht heights they flew. For example the US bombers flew fairly high, and to intercept them I doubt the fighters are going to stay low. I would say it is the other way around, what you see on a lot of servers, with this tree top flying has little to do with what was typical back then, certainly there where cases where they too flew at tree top height but not in general.

It is a game there are differances to reality.

Just look at the skip bombing bit, then have fun looking up how often that was done back then especially against war ships! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ElAurens
10-15-2009, 10:16 PM
The air war in Western Europe was a high altitude affair for the most part. 20,000ft was pretty common.

Over Russia it was mostly low level ground support stuff for the VVS, which brought the Luftwaffe down to get them.

In the Pacific, for the most part, it was a mid level affair. 15.000 feet or so, till the last months of the war when the USAAF bombing campaign brought things up a bit.

Ba5tard5word
10-15-2009, 11:03 PM
Yeah the Allied bombers in Western Europe flew at like 20,000 feet up or more (convert that to meters if you want), all day, every day. Eastern Europe was more of a low level battle, and it's why some Russian planes like the La-5 could get away with their performance deteriorating when over 4000m or so.

ImMoreBetter
10-15-2009, 11:04 PM
There is a reason why some planes reach their maximum capabilities at high altitude...

Because they were designed that way- to fight at high altitude.

American heavy bombers flew at 25,000ft. Their escorts would often times fly even higher in order to get an advantage over the intercepting aircraft.

BillSwagger
10-16-2009, 02:05 AM
IMO, you aren't really flying unless you are above 5000m.
It depends on the plane, but 5000m to me is still a medium altitude. I consider high altitude above 8,000m.

I would like to know what server you are describing. When i play, I usually fly in circles for 10 or 20 minutes just above 6000m. I usually get board and fly down to 3000m where a lot of players tend to fly.

Historically, there are a lot of misconceptions. Western front was an altitude, energy based fight. A lot of times these engagements started above 20,000ft, and sometimes ended at tree top level, due to the fact that pilots tend to dive away in attempt to escape their enemy attackers.

I also think that fights on the Eastern front were higher than most think in a lot of scenarios. La-7s were out flying 190s up to 6000m. The Eastern front differed in respect to Western bombing campaigns. They flew much lower, so the need to intercept them above 20,000ft was unheard of, but i still think support and escort fighters flew at higher elevations than whats perceived in the sim.

na85
10-16-2009, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
IMO, you aren't really flying unless you are above 5000m.
It depends on the plane, but 5000m to me is still a medium altitude. I consider high altitude above 8,000m.

I would like to know what server you are describing. When i play, I usually fly in circles for 10 or 20 minutes just above 6000m. I usually get board and fly down to 3000m where a lot of players tend to fly.

Historically, there are a lot of misconceptions. Western front was an altitude, energy based fight. A lot of times these engagements started above 20,000ft, and sometimes ended at tree top level, due to the fact that pilots tend to dive away in attempt to escape their enemy attackers.

I also think that fights on the Eastern front were higher than most think in a lot of scenarios. La-7s were out flying 190s up to 6000m. The Eastern front differed in respect to Western bombing campaigns. They flew much lower, so the need to intercept them above 20,000ft was unheard of, but i still think support and escort fighters flew at higher elevations than whats perceived in the sim.

Regarding the eastern front altitudes, I'd say the norm was below 5000m. You can read kill tallies for luftwaffe aces on the eastern front and note how many of their kills are at 2500-3500m or so.

Considering the fact that the sturmoviks often flew literally at treetop height, 2500m is quite sufficient for escort duty, especially when considering the lousy dive limit of most early soviet types.

On the subject of operational altitudes in the il2 world, I agree that far too much of the action occurs at low altitude. This is, imo, due to the fact that people are just not interested in spending 5 to 10 minutes climbing up to altitude, especially new players. Only on a handful of servers do you actually see pilots making a concerted attempt to control the upper skies.

To me that's the main difference between online wars and dogfight servers. Until I started flying Forgotten Skies I rarely went up beyond contrails. Now I consider 5km to be "low altitude" and have spent entire campaigns up in the 9-11km range.

BillSwagger
10-16-2009, 02:20 AM
The heights squadrons fly at depended on the missions. Escorting bombers typically means they needed to fly above the bombers they are escorting. That could be above 30,000ft.

Ground pound missions also depended on distance to the target and range. The P-47 campaigns were mostly flown from 10,000 to 20,000 ft.
They had designated rolls for each element. For example the planes with the Green cowling, might've provided top cover for the other elements while they go drop bombs.

Many times these attacks were coordinated with some sort of ground offensive. The fighter bombers would fly to the area that needed support, or where a planned offensive was taking place. Maybe they got a call on the radio that tanks were cornering in the troops at such and such a vector, so they would go drop bombs on the tanks. The literature i've read seems to suggest that these pilots flew up to the vapor trail height. This meant they could see any incoming enemies from above, because of their contrails and could also allow them to see any enemies below them while they remained undetected because they were just below the vapor height. That height was usually in the neighborhood of 20,000ft.

BillSwagger
10-16-2009, 02:25 AM
when is a good time to get on Forgotten Skies, and what version of the sim do they run?

na85
10-16-2009, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
when is a good time to get on Forgotten Skies, and what version of the sim do they run?

Forgotten skies requires that you be part of a squad to join. There ARE some squads that are recruiting currently, you might want to just post on the forums there and ask.

FS runs missions tuesday and saturday evenings, at 9:30 pm Eastern. It used to be Tues, Sun, and Fri but they changed it due to hosting conflicts and unfortunately I can't fly tuesday or saturday nights so in terms of FS I'm grounded for the foreseeable future.

They run 4.09b1m with mods. Currently it's ui1.1 + some custom mods but I imagine they will transition to ui1.2 soon enough.

JG52Uther
10-16-2009, 02:36 AM
Regularly flew at 8000-10000 meters in online wars,and still got bounced by someone higher! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

na85
10-16-2009, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Regularly flew at 8000-10000 meters in online wars,and still got bounced by someone higher! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yep. I remember being at 11000m and having a 109 bounce me from above. Unbelievable.

csThor
10-16-2009, 04:27 AM
That had to have been a Bf 109 K-4/HSA ... Homesick Angel. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

On the Eastern Front the majority of combat took place below 3000m because soviet doctrine was based on direct air support. Longer-range bomber missions were flown at night by ADD forces so daylight bombing was limited to the frontline and tactical targets close by.

M_Gunz
10-16-2009, 04:29 AM
Weren't there extra-high-alt recon planes (photo-recon fighter versions) and the interceptors sent to chase them?
P-47's that could go above 40,000 ft and for that matter at least one German fighter as well?

JG52Uther
10-16-2009, 05:11 AM
Yep,high alt Spits and 109s regularly flew at 40000+,with pressurised cockpits.
Must have been a very lonely place to have a fight.

Frankthetank36
10-16-2009, 07:23 AM
Um, it seems like most of the action in IL2 happens pretty close to the deck. I hate trying to escort bombers who are flying at like 2000m.

Lt_Letum
10-16-2009, 08:44 AM
In the Mediterranean German bombers regularly
flew above 20,000ft before diving, however,
this is a bit misleading as 20,000ft in North
Africa is only the equivalent of ~15,000ft in
Europe because of the different air pressure
gradients.

This is the same reason that B29s over Japan
could (and did) fly at 40,000ft. This altitude
would not have been practical over Europe where
B17 (that had a higher service ceiling than
the B29) did not typically fly above 30,000ft.

Viper2005_
10-16-2009, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Yep,high alt Spits and 109s regularly flew at 40000+,with pressurised cockpits.
Must have been a very lonely place to have a fight.

Not all that regularly; compare and contrast production totals for the Spitfire VII with the IX for example. Furthermore, compare the production totals for the LF.IX and HF.IX...

Both sides seem to have abandoned the quest for ever-increasing altitudes in about 1942 by what amounts to mutual consent, because operations above about 36,000 feet become increasingly difficult.

Not only does pressurisation become a necessity rather than a luxury (you'll be hypoxic even if you breath 100% oxygen at ambient pressure) but also there just isn't very much that you can useful do up there other than photo recon.

In IL2 it is very easy to level bomb accurately from 30,000 feet. IRL things weren't that simple because the wind strength and direction varied with altitude, which had the potential to significantly affect the fall of the bombs.

IIRC the highest aerial battles of the war took place between high altitude Spitfires and Ju-86Ps, and were around 45-46000 feet.

However, you can get a good idea of what constituted "normality" by looking at the optimum altitudes of the various aero engines produced during the War, because the supercharger gear ratios were chosen on the basis of testing of captured enemy aircraft and pilot reports as to the altitudes at which combat was taking place.

Towards the end of the war in Europe, the altitude of combat collapsed because the Germans couldn't get off the ground.

High altitude combat in IL2 is extremely unrealistic because of the absence of transonic effects. P-47 pilots may regularly be seen attacking in supersonic dives for example. IRL, even quite gentle dives would have to be entered into with considerable circumspection...

Bremspropeller
10-16-2009, 09:22 AM
but also there just isn't very much that you can useful do up there other than photo recon.

Shooting other photo-birds down http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Daiichidoku
10-16-2009, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
In the Pacific, for the most part, it was a mid level affair. 15.000 feet or so, till the last months of the war when the USAAF bombing campaign brought things up a bit.

actually, i thought that when LeMay took over bomber ops they were getting dismal results from 25,000-30,000ft with the B29s, so they brought it down to around 12,000-14,000ft and accuracy increased dramatically

?

ok, quick wiki czech gave this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay

He became convinced that high-altitude, precision bombing would be ineffective, given the usual cloudy weather over Japan. Because Japanese air defenses made daytime bombing below jet stream altitudes too perilous, LeMay finally switched to low-altitude, nighttime incendiary attacks on Japanese targets, a tactic senior commanders had been advocating for some time. Japanese cities were largely constructed of combustible materials such as wood and paper. Precision high-altitude daylight bombing was ordered to proceed only when weather permitted or when specific critical targets were not vulnerable to area bombing.

LeMay commanded subsequent B-29 Superfortress combat operations against Japan, including the massive incendiary attacks on 64 Japanese cities. This included the the firebombing of Tokyo on 9 March–10 March 1945. For this first attack, LeMay ordered the defensive guns removed from 325 B-29s, loaded each plane with Model E-46 incendiary clusters, magnesium bombs, white phosphorus bombs, and napalm and ordered the bombers to fly in streams at 5,000–9,000 feet over Tokyo.

The first pathfinder planes arrived over Tokyo just after midnight on March 10. Following British bombing practice, they marked the target area with a flaming 'X.' In a three-hour period, the main bombing force dropped 1,665 tons of incendiary bombs, killing more than 100,000 civilians, destroying 250,000 buildings and incinerating 16 square miles (41 km2) of the city. Aircrews at the tail end of the bomber stream reported that the stench of burned human flesh permeated the aircraft over the target

M_Gunz
10-16-2009, 10:01 AM
Pursuit and attack of recon planes was the first aerial combat ever done. It was done for good reason that didn't
end with WWII or even the Cold War though recon planes did get so specialized that they were almost impossible to
catch. The pernt being that intelligence gathering is serious business with a just as serious side of denying the
enemy the same. Everything from parking plane mockups and even painting silhouettes on the ground to sending up
actual pursuit patrols is worth it to keep an enemy from judging your own strengths, positions, and movements.
It was intelligence from one French recon plane that the whole maneuver war turned around to become trench war,
that and a huge act of mobilization on the part of the French of course! The Germans would likely have captured
Paris if not for the actions of that one unarmed plane.

IIRC the only aerial action of the US Civil War was spotters raised up in balloons well back from the front.

LOL, new to me, that was also when the first aircraft carriers went into action! (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Lighter_than_air/Civil_War_balloons/LTA5.htm)

As well as aerial reconnaissance and telegraphy, Lowe and LaMountain also introduced the use of aircraft carriers. Lowe directed the construction in 1861 of the first aircraft carrier, George Washington Parke Custis, a rebuilt coal barge with a flight deck superstructure. On one occasion, she towed one of Lowe's balloons for 13 miles (21 kilometers) at an altitude of 1,000 feet (305 meters) while Lowe made continuous observations. On August 3, 1861, LaMountain used the deck of the small vessel Fanny to launch an observation balloon 2,000 feet (610 meters) over the James River. He used the Union tugboat Adriatic for the same purpose. Word of the Americans' achievements even reached Europe, where the Prussian army sent Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin to learn what he could from this kind of warfare.

No big surprise, that was also when a short-sighted General managed to kill a good program as Union General Comstock did
in 1863!

BTW both sides used balloons for battlefield recon and active artillery registration.

waffen-79
10-16-2009, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by na85:
Regarding the eastern front altitudes, I'd say the norm was below 5000m. You can read kill tallies for luftwaffe aces on the eastern front and note how many of their kills are at 2500-3500m or so.


Originally posted by BillSwagger:
IMO, you aren't really flying unless you are above 5000m.
It depends on the plane, but 5000m to me is still a medium altitude. I consider high altitude above 8,000m.

Flying at Skies of Valor and Spits vs 109's(only when flying with squad)

I fly mostly LW planes, several British, American and Japanese fighters and all kinds of medium bombers. All BnZ style even if they're hybrid

For me it's pretty simple, actually

500m - 2500m Low Alt < Never even look for enemies at that height, attack only if engaged
55% of my kills where done at that height

2500m - 4500m Medium Alt < Starting looking for enemies
40% of my kills where done at that height

4500m - 6500m High Alt < Seriously? are you air-starting? I honestly (and sadly) don't have the time to spend 20min per sortie
5% of my kills where done at that height

na85
10-16-2009, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by waffen-79:

4500m - 6500m High Alt < Seriously? are you air-starting? I honestly (and sadly) don't have the time to spend 20min per sortie
5% of my kills where done at that height

Like I said it's different in online wars. At 6500 you're getting contrailers coming in at 8k and diving on you.

JG52Uther
10-16-2009, 11:18 AM
In an online war,if you are flying at 6.5k you are just a target.

FlixFlix
10-16-2009, 12:02 PM
I can confirm what Uther said. In online-wars most fights start above 7k. Unless the mission objective is of a tactical nature (ground targets).

Frankthetank36
10-16-2009, 02:33 PM
So why don't you see [level] bombers online flying around at like 20-25K ft? Are they just too lazy to climb that high? You don't need to be super precise if you can drop a bunch of bombs over an airfield, some of them will hit SOMETHING, a few good potholes in the runway usually make takeoff and landing tricky. They are just sitting ducks at low alt.

Wildnoob
10-16-2009, 02:48 PM
Yeah, the figth on the Eastern Front was usually at medium and lower altitude.

But I really doubt the LW would engage the enemy starting at these levels in normal conditions. As well as the Soviets.

This is not a affirmation, but just a deduction from my part based on IL2 experience.

Perhaps not at start were they still retain speed advantage down low and have much more freedom to engage almost all VVS aircraft as well as more nimble plane models, but as the war progressed, the new generation of Soviet figthers were very capable of outperform the LW aircraft with consideration in sustained engagements at lower and medium altitude. And there's the actual fact orders were issued for the squadrons to avoid figth Soviet figthers at such altitudes.

I belive the German pilot's always came when they could from high level to B&Z the Soviets. As they would have much superior combat performance and safety at point for caugth them even in cruize level fligth would be very difficult for the Soviet figthers. So the engagements used to happen low but not the fligths would came low altough.

But ok, I'll have to research about this, but if anyone could tell me if my thougth is correct I would be glad.

Frankthetank36
10-16-2009, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by JG52Uther:
In an online war,if you are flying at 6.5k you are just a target.

How? You can easily see the enemies and pounce on them and they are all too low to get the the drop on you. I've been trying high-alt (well, more like 5K) searching and it seems to work pretty well, only downside is it takes forever to get that high.

JG52Uther
10-16-2009, 02:59 PM
Online wars are not dogfight servers.Fighters usually fly higher.5K is not high alt.

Viper2005_
10-16-2009, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
So why don't you see [level] bombers online flying around at like 20-25K ft? Are they just too lazy to climb that high?

Mostly.

I tend to bomb with a Ju-88 from just below contrails.

A-20C or B-17/B-24 will quite happily bomb from about 30,000 feet.

Of course, the main reason that people don't see me is that I'm trying my best not to be found & intercepted. Hence climbing in the first place.

PanzerAce
10-16-2009, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
So why don't you see [level] bombers online flying around at like 20-25K ft? Are they just too lazy to climb that high? You don't need to be super precise if you can drop a bunch of bombs over an airfield, some of them will hit SOMETHING, a few good potholes in the runway usually make takeoff and landing tricky. They are just sitting ducks at low alt.

Part of the problem has to do with the bomb sighting systems I suspect. You need to be low enough to actually see what you are dropping on, and the higher you are, the more important small mistakes in AGL and TAS become.

na85
10-16-2009, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
So why don't you see [level] bombers online flying around at like 20-25K ft? Are they just too lazy to climb that high? You don't need to be super precise if you can drop a bunch of bombs over an airfield, some of them will hit SOMETHING, a few good potholes in the runway usually make takeoff and landing tricky. They are just sitting ducks at low alt.

Because those bombers climb so slowly that people get impatient.

Additionally it's not always about bombing airfields. Many servers have objective-based missions where there are tank columns, ships, or factories that need bombing. Ships and tanks in particular require a healthy dose of precision to hit from high alt.

Frankthetank36
10-16-2009, 07:39 PM
Well I can see using low altitude attacks against moving targets, but factories are fair game from the ceiling. And I personally prefer fighter-bombers for tanks and ships (or anything with a torpedo for ships) since rockets are more accurate and you can drop your ordnance and fight if you get intercepted, instead of just getting shot down like a low-altitude multiengine bomber would. Also I imagine a runway full of potholes would cripple a base, but I haven't tried this yet, usually too busy attacking their AA.

Unknown-Pilot
10-16-2009, 08:51 PM
A good map REALLY ought to have an airstart set up for the heavies (but only the heavies), but I'm sure that would be anathema to the types that take this all way too seriously.

But that's why I go for Jabo instead. Jug, Pfeil, 262A2 (on the servers run by people with the nards to add jets - this IS IL2 1946 afterall http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ), etc.

That way I can justify not waiting for hours watching pixels slide by, bored out of my skull, and plus I can often go A2A afterward too.

Muddy17
10-16-2009, 09:21 PM
B-25's B-26's and A-20's and the other twin prop's would generaly only operate between 10 and 20k,,above that it was the heavies, IE 17/24 combo.
That said you are not going to send 300 B-25's to Berlin from the UK. So heavy lift was not an option neather was the need to get above the area defences when they know your comming for 2-3 hours.

Post invasion when the twin props could operate from France or Holland etc and hit farther in to Germany they would still be at the lower levels. With the big boys still way up.. The differance being tactical and strategec {sorry about the spelling}.

A tactical air wing will stick in the mid alt's for your target is a bridge or tanks or some other form of small target and not 30 acers on the south side of town.

Air combat was not only high alt but spread across the board.
Muddy

Muddy17
10-16-2009, 09:29 PM
That said a B-26 is still missing.

Stiletto-
10-16-2009, 10:34 PM
I remember when the original IL-2 Sturmovik came out.. How much I loved my LA-5FN! Well do to subsequent patches that made altitude performance more realistic along with all players using better tactics that suit their planes.. Most of the Russian planes are absolute dogs over 3000m.

With the exception of the MiG-3 and maybe one or two Yak variants, a mid to late war 109 can often engage and disengage at will if you try to fly up where he is. Obviously if he spots you and you try to bring him lower, he will have an altitude advantage and if smart, retain his energy and try to bring the fight back up high if you start gaining a hand on him.

On a plus side to the lower altitude russian aircraft, if you are on a heavily populated server with alot of action, it will probably be brought down to mid to lower range altitude where the Yak's and La's can fight better.. And if you at a relatively high altitude, the blue players often don't expect to get vulched from above themselves.. You just got to make sure you run for lower air if you don't shoot them down right away.

Frankthetank36
10-16-2009, 10:47 PM
Interesting... If I could convince my teammates in Heinkels and Ju-88s to bomb at higher altitudes, it would be way easier to get kills in my 109 since the Russian fighters would be lured to their altitude. Of course, the bombers still insist on assaulting the bases at like 1000m.

Muddy17
10-16-2009, 11:07 PM
They would be safer from aircraft but expose themself to flack for longer.

PanzerAce
10-16-2009, 11:21 PM
I actually love escorting mid alt bombers (4-6k) and hitting all the guys that are slowly climbing at them :P makes it really easy to rack up high scores

Wildnoob
10-16-2009, 11:44 PM
"Lerche's recommendations were to attempt to draw the La-5FN to higher altitudes, to escape attacks in a dive followed by a high-speed shallow climb, and to avoid prolonged turning engagements."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-5

This part of the German report in the article states the MW-50 equiped 109s had superior performance at all altitudes in comparison with the La-5FN. But this claim enters in great contradiction, altough it is pretty interesting. Despite a little strange it wasn't incluide the own Soviet reports of their aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Manu-6S
10-17-2009, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
"Lerche's recommendations were to attempt to draw the La-5FN to higher altitudes, to escape attacks in a dive followed by a high-speed shallow climb, and to avoid prolonged turning engagements."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-5

This part of the German report in the article states the MW-50 equiped 109s had superior performance at all altitudes in comparison with the La-5FN. But this claim enters in great contradiction, altough it is pretty interesting. Despite a little strange it wasn't incluide the own Soviet reports of their aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

IIRC the soviets'test of german planes were never made with MW50 activated.

I remember their test regard the D9 too...

Kettenhunde
10-19-2009, 08:39 PM
But this claim enters in great contradiction,

I don’t understand why you would think that. The basic relationship in aircraft performance is power available to power required. Increase the power available and the performance will improve.

All the best,

Crumpp

ImpStarDuece
10-19-2009, 10:11 PM
As a good indication of how the altitude of the air war in Europe progressed, look at the full throttle altitudes of various Spitfires:

Mk I: 17,600 - 18,900 ft
Mk II: 18,000 ft
Mk V: 19,900-23,000
Mk IX F: 27,400 ft (Merlin 61)
Mk IX LF: 23,900 ft (Merlin 66)
Mk XIV: 25,900 ft

The European air war started quite high during the 'Phoney war' period, dropped down to a tactical war during the invasion of France. Then it lept back up for the Battle of Britain and then soared progressively higher over 1941-1943, particularly 1942.

(The exception to this being the low alt F/B operations conducted by the P-51A/Fw 190 and Typhoon over the period, as well as the medium alt bombing of German air bases in France)

From late 1942/early1943 it really gained in altitude, as the USAAF began its bombing campaign in earnest. The 8th AF tended to operate some 6-10,000 feet higher than the RAF mediums and heavies.

By mid to late 1943, with concerns turning to neutralising German opposition to an invasion of the continent, the height of the air war came back down again. Hence the preference for the medium alt specialised Spitfire Mk IX LF, rather than the versions with the engines tuned for more performance at higher altitudes.

Between mid 1944 and the end of the war, its a lot more mixed. You have the 2TAF and the 15th AF concentrating on low alt operations, supporting the medium bombers, conducting their own fighter bombers, ect, ect. At the same time, you have the 8th AF flying high alt missions into Germany, right through the early months of 1945.

JtD
10-19-2009, 11:18 PM
High altitude fighting is realistic. There was a lot of it around high flying bombers.

What's often missing in online games are the high flying bombers, or just the bombers. Which kind of makes high altitude flying a moot point.

If I find all fighters at high altitude, I'll grab a bomber and attack the targets at treetop level. Not only will it be hard for them to spot me, but often they will also refuse to come down.

Feathered_IV
10-20-2009, 01:07 AM
Fighting online in the P-47 is great fun at altitudes over 28000ft. Find some poor sap in an FW and drag them up past 30K where the Jug gets it's second wind. Once they are flopping about like a landed fish, turn the tables and tear them up. If they try to dive away, use the jugs superior performance to catch them up and sprinkle them with .50 love.