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Mr_Stunner
05-07-2011, 07:40 AM
"As for Desmond, the poor guy's back in the Animus where he has found a safe mode called the "Black Room." Desmond is able to access his lost memories in this room and the gameplay takes more of a "narrative-fueled puzzle" approach. By manipulating and creating geometric shapes in the environment, Desmond can reintegrate the fragmented layers of his subconscious."

Taken from Gameinformer

Spoilers from Brotherhood:

Do you think this "Black Room" is where Subject 16 is? And he is not dead, but just in a coma like Desmond?
Or this could get the theory that Desmond is 16 stronger, if he is using the Black Room to get memories from his past and subject 16 says "find me in the darkness", it could be very plausible...

ChaosxNetwork
05-07-2011, 08:05 AM
Thats a nice connection you made there. I new about the "Black Room" but never thought about the "Find me in the Darkness"
Interesting idea, hopefully they don't(In my opinion) completely unveil Subject 16, but give us a real deeper understanding of him and his background. So that when we get to ACII we still have a lot to learn about him.
Oh but I don't like the idea that 16 is Desmond (I didn't read that part)

idrenegade
05-07-2011, 08:10 AM
Not sure how Desmond being 16 would work out. I think they are just distant cousins. The line 16 said about "the sun... your son." just wouldn't make sense if it was Desmond.

Mr_Stunner
05-07-2011, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by idrenegade:
Not sure how Desmond being 16 would work out. I think they are just distant cousins. The line 16 said about "the sun... your son." just wouldn't make sense if it was Desmond.

On the other hand, the way he says "Yes... Subject 17" and laughs, still hints ate they being the same eventually

SAVMATIC
05-07-2011, 03:11 PM
The "darkness" and the "black room" is almost surely some kind of superconscious state Desmond has sank into, where he is able to access the full extent of his memories.(Look up NDE's, Near Death Experiences for an idea)
Also it says "Geometry" will have a key role in Desmond accessing this part of his mind, which makes me pretty sure this will involve 'Sacred Geometry'. (if you want an idea of sacred geometry that interacts w/ consciousness look here (http://www.the-arcturians.com/eng/codes/awakening.htm)
also makes me wonder if desmond could somehow be subject 16, and he realizes this in the depths of his mind by accessing these lost memories.

phil.llllll
05-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Why would Desmond be 16? Don't know how that would be.


Originally posted by idrenegade:
Not sure how Desmond being 16 would work out. I think they are just distant cousins. The line 16 said about "the sun... your son." just wouldn't make sense if it was Desmond.

Where did you get they were distant cousins?

Mr_Stunner
05-08-2011, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by phil.llllll:
Why would Desmond be 16? Don't know how that would be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idrenegade:
Not sure how Desmond being 16 would work out. I think they are just distant cousins. The line 16 said about "the sun... your son." just wouldn't make sense if it was Desmond.

Where did you get they were distant cousins? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some people assume that Ezio is their last ancestor in common

phil.llllll
05-08-2011, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by Mister_Stunner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phil.llllll:
Why would Desmond be 16? Don't know how that would be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idrenegade:
Not sure how Desmond being 16 would work out. I think they are just distant cousins. The line 16 said about "the sun... your son." just wouldn't make sense if it was Desmond.

Where did you get they were distant cousins? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some people assume that Ezio is their last ancestor in common </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any reason why? As far as I know, there's really nothing that points towards that...

St4va
05-08-2011, 07:36 AM
Darkness, Coma, Black Room(Safe Mode)
Hello!

You're forgetting Desmond's state and that's the coma he is trapped in and that's why he will be in the black room Aka safe mode.

There is no darker state then coma.

Mr_Stunner
05-08-2011, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by phil.llllll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mister_Stunner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phil.llllll:
Why would Desmond be 16? Don't know how that would be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idrenegade:
Not sure how Desmond being 16 would work out. I think they are just distant cousins. The line 16 said about "the sun... your son." just wouldn't make sense if it was Desmond.

Where did you get they were distant cousins? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some people assume that Ezio is their last ancestor in common </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any reason why? As far as I know, there's really nothing that points towards that... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the begining of the second game when Lucy was downloading the data from Animus 1.0, it showed on the screen "DNA Match found: Subject 16: Uknown Subject 17: Desmond Miles
Ezio Auditores da Firenze"

And some people assume that means Ezio is both's last common ancestor

phil.llllll
05-08-2011, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Mister_Stunner:
On the begining of the second game when Lucy was downloading the data from Animus 1.0, it showed on the screen "DNA Match found: Subject 16: Uknown Subject 17: Desmond Miles
Ezio Auditores da Firenze"

And some people assume that means Ezio is both's last common ancestor

I remember it said Subject 16 and 17 but I assume that was only because they were the only ones to use that animus. When it said match found, it highlighted Desmond's name, not 16's (that is they found a match for Desmond).

I think people read way too far into that.

Assassin_M
05-08-2011, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by phil.llllll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mister_Stunner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phil.llllll:
Why would Desmond be 16? Don't know how that would be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by idrenegade:
Not sure how Desmond being 16 would work out. I think they are just distant cousins. The line 16 said about "the sun... your son." just wouldn't make sense if it was Desmond.

Where did you get they were distant cousins? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some people assume that Ezio is their last ancestor in common </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any reason why? As far as I know, there's really nothing that points towards that... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Referring to your question "Why"
-Because Ezio probably has 2 children, one of them continues till Desmond and the other continues till 16

phil.llllll
05-08-2011, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Referring to your question "Why"
-Because Ezio probably has 2 children, one of them continues till Desmond and the other continues till 16

Again, this is never stated (or hinted at) anywhere in the series.

AronAssassin68
05-09-2011, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by phil.llllll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Referring to your question "Why"
-Because Ezio probably has 2 children, one of them continues till Desmond and the other continues till 16

Again, this is never stated (or hinted at) anywhere in the series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude this is like the third thread I see you talking about stuff you clearly haven't read into. Obviously you're just not paying very much attention while playing. Now read the first paragraph of this link. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Subject_16) Maybe you should visit that website some more often anyway, then come back here to discuss your newly found wiseness.

phil.llllll
05-09-2011, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by AronAssassin68:
Dude this is like the third thread I see you talking about stuff you clearly haven't read into. Obviously you're just not paying very much attention while playing. Now read the first paragraph of this link. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Subject_16) Maybe you should visit that website some more often anyway, then come back here to discuss your newly found wiseness.

You're hysterical you know that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

You linked me to an article on a wiki site. You do know that pretty much anyone can edit that right? Meaning they could put down whatever they want.

Again there's nothing concrete that proves that Desmond and 16 are related in any way shape or form.

Drakonous505
05-09-2011, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by phil.llllll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AronAssassin68:
Dude this is like the third thread I see you talking about stuff you clearly haven't read into. Obviously you're just not paying very much attention while playing. Now read the first paragraph of this link. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Subject_16) Maybe you should visit that website some more often anyway, then come back here to discuss your newly found wiseness.

You're hysterical you know that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

You linked me to an article on a wiki site. You do know that pretty much anyone can edit that right? Meaning they could put down whatever they want.

Again there's nothing concrete that proves that Desmond and 16 are related in any way shape or form. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1DnCNdhPPE

Skip to 2:50 it specificly said Memory Match Found. Therefore proving Ezio was their most likely last common ancestor.

phil.llllll
05-09-2011, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Drakonous505:
Skip to 2:50 it specificly said Memory Match Found. Therefore proving Ezio was their most likely last common ancestor.

It said memory match found for Desmond Miles (the name it highlighted).

It most likely only showed 16 name to prove he was the other only other one to use that animus (which plays a part in how he got the whole truth bits inside their in the first place).

It's far too loose to assume (especially just from that) that they're directly related.

Regardless the wiki page is pure conjecture (even if he was related to him).

Drakonous505
05-09-2011, 09:13 AM
Yes it does say match found for Desmond after the Animus used Subject 16's as a basis to find a relevant memory that the two share. In the background it is seen that the Animus is searching between two strands of DNA scanning for said memory.

As I recall at one point it was mentioned that Vidic was obsessed with the Italian Renaissance and what happened during it. And it can be assumed that Subject 16 "died" or is a decedent of a child Ezio fathered before the events they wanted to observe occurred.

an-assassin
05-09-2011, 09:46 AM
OMG! phil please pay attention to the story. It is known that Ezio is subject 16`s ancestor. This is known because 16 could put truth files into Ezio´s memories. Plus when the animus search for a memory MATCH the two names (16 and 17) is on the screen. The only reason that 17 is highlighted is because it is subject 17 that uses the animus. please, its not illigal to think yourself

(I am back after a long time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hi everybody)

iN3krO
05-09-2011, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by an-assassin:
OMG! phil please pay attention to the story. It is known that Ezio is subject 16`s ancestor. This is known because 16 could put truth files into Ezio´s memories. Plus when the animus search for a memory MATCH the two names (16 and 17) is on the screen. The only reason that 17 is highlighted is because it is subject 17 that uses the animus. please, its not illigal to think yourself

(I am back after a long time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hi everybody)

Leonardo Da Vinci could be Subject 16 ancestor, he had acess to the same places ezio had...

an-assassin
05-09-2011, 10:22 AM
Yeh but it was EZIOS files the truth where located on and NOT Leonardos, so your argument doesnt really work. 16 and desmond are related END OF STORY!!

(sorry if I sound mean or angry. Im not, but its facts that desmond and 16 are related.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

phil.llllll
05-09-2011, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Drakonous505:
Yes it does say match found for Desmond after the Animus used Subject 16's as a basis to find a relevant memory that the two share. In the background it is seen that the Animus is searching between two strands of DNA scanning for said memory.

I still think it's taking far too much from that little picture. Besides it highlights Desmond's name (and strand) at the end, not 16's (or both Desmond and 16).


Originally posted by Drakonous505:
As I recall at one point it was mentioned that Vidic was obsessed with the Italian Renaissance and what happened during it. And it can be assumed that Subject 16 "died" or is a decedent of a child Ezio fathered before the events they wanted to observe occurred.

We do know for a fact that he had ancestor's in Italy (As Lucy mentions to Desmond). We don't however know that that ancestor is Ezio.

Besides if they wanted to observe those events, and they had Desmond who is supposedly related to 16, how come they didn't?




Originally posted by an-assassin:
OMG! phil please pay attention to the story. It is known that Ezio is subject 16`s ancestor. This is known because 16 could put truth files into Ezio´s memories.

This is explained as him hacking the animus between sessions and them sharing the same memory core.

iN3krO
05-09-2011, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by an-assassin:
Yeh but it was EZIOS files the truth where located on and NOT Leonardos, so your argument doesnt really work. 16 and desmond are related END OF STORY!!

(sorry if I sound mean or angry. Im not, but its facts that desmond and 16 are related.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

Do you remember the core that lucy had stolen from abstergo? it got some locations codes in the map... not in the ezio memories... if desmond visits ezio's dad memories he would be able to see the glyphs too....

Plus, lucy said the ancestor in italy was close to the events they wanted to investigate but that ezio was better to investigate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Valaquen_
05-09-2011, 11:33 AM
please, its not illigal to think yourself
Then maybe you should leave him to think for himself instead of insulting him for doing so.


Plus, lucy said the ancestor in italy was close to the events they wanted to investigate but that ezio was better to investigate
Well they couldn't have been able to investigate Ezio with 16 if they didn't get around to it and instead wasted time on an inferior subject. Likely 16 is related to another character from the period. Anyway, it's all conjecture. We'll see if they're related in due course but people shouldn't get so exasperated that others aren't going with the mandated fan flow. We're not drones. Think and debate. It's what forums and free thinking are about.

an-assassin
05-09-2011, 01:28 PM
Well, I am sure that Desmond and 16 was is related. About that memory core, he did put the glyphs in Ezios FILE! The file (with glyphs within it) was taken to animus 2.0, but the glyphs itself was only in Ezios memory file.

but well, people can think what they want. I am just saying that I am 100% sure they are related. But why dont we wait and see? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AronAssassin68
05-09-2011, 01:37 PM
I dont think I've ever seen a thread with more ignorant people before. I mean you can think what you want and all but you get go around the facts. Subject 15 is known to have used that specific animus, so phil's argument about 16 and 17 being the only ones who used that animus is gone. The only reason why it doesn't say 16's name is because Ubi didn't want us to know his name. (yet)

Please get some dev or forum manager in here. Like an-assassin I am not mad at all or something but there is just no way around this.

phil.llllll
05-09-2011, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by AronAssassin68:
I dont think I've ever seen a thread with more ignorant people before.

Unless you have something of substance to say I'll assume you're one of them.


Originally posted by AronAssassin68:
I mean you can think what you want and all but you get go around the facts. Subject 15 is known to have used that specific animus, so phil's argument about 16 and 17 being the only ones who used that animus is gone. The only reason why it doesn't say 16's name is because Ubi didn't want us to know his name. (yet)

Not true. In fact, it's never mention what animus she used so I have no idea how you assume it was that specific one (especially since there's dozens shown).

Drakonous505
05-09-2011, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by phil.llllll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AronAssassin68:
I dont think I've ever seen a thread with more ignorant people before.

Unless you have something of substance to say I'll assume you're one of them.


Originally posted by AronAssassin68:
I mean you can think what you want and all but you get go around the facts. Subject 15 is known to have used that specific animus, so phil's argument about 16 and 17 being the only ones who used that animus is gone. The only reason why it doesn't say 16's name is because Ubi didn't want us to know his name. (yet)

Not true. In fact, it's never mention what animus she used so I have no idea how you assume it was that specific one (especially since there's dozens shown). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty sure ABSTERGO would keep all their Assassin related subjects in the same Animi under Vidic's control. Yes it's gone through some versions to warrant the fact that not all the files are on the same drive. It is possible that they kept copies of them on one drive to refer to with future subjects not suspecting that Desmond would escape with it.

To be honest that video is more then enough proof proving a common ancestry between S16 and Desmond for me.

PhiIs1618033
05-09-2011, 02:45 PM
On the ancestor issue:
There are several memories which Leonardo could not possibly have lived. For instance, the Castello infiltration missions in Brotherhood and Ezio's birth.

Mr_Stunner
05-09-2011, 05:37 PM
Yeah, it's pretty sure proven that Subject 16 and Desmond share Ezio's DNA.
If Subject 16 is Desmond like I said in the OP, then he would know taht he would lose the memories and hacked them on the Animus

SWJS
05-09-2011, 08:41 PM
*sigh*

This tired argument again?

Desmond and 16 are not related. Period.

The animus is an oversized computer. Therefore it would make sense that it would have a log in screen. The screen at the beginning is just a log in screen. It searched for the current users DNA code and found a match with Desmond's. 16's name then went away and we logged in with Desmond.

As for the glyphs, 16 hacked the animus' memory core AND downloaded a copy of his consciousness into it. The animus code simply integrated them into the digital recreation of the world.

The same thing would happen if you were to hack a virtual reality, which is exactly what the Animus turns memories into.

This whole distant cousin theory is based solely off of a screen that only appears for thirty seconds. There isn't enough evidence to support it, let a lone make it valid. Unless Ubi confirms it, then it isn't true.