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View Full Version : what was the structure of the 190 fuel tank?



Danschnell
01-05-2006, 08:10 AM
I was flying online yesterday and 3 sorties in a row my Fw190A was hit once very slightly by an AAA 85 burst. The plane rocked ever so slightly and I got the message 'fuel tank leak.' 30 seconds later... 'engine out of fuel.' and I crashed trying to land on the nearest road all 3 times.

I heard that the Fw190 had about 8 fuel tanks, in which case one minor fuel leak shouldn't have this effect. Am I mistaken, or was their a model of each varient of Fw190 which only had one continuous, non self sealing fuel tank. Are these the types modelled in the game?

HeinzBar
01-05-2006, 08:35 AM
S!,
The Anton & Dora series had two fuel tanks IIRC. While the TA152 had multiple tanks in the fuselage and wings. Gentlemen, please correct me if I'm wrong.

How those tanks were designed I'm unsure. Did the tanks have multiple, individual chambers? That's a good question. However, you can rest assured that the FW190a did have self-sealing tanks.

What you experienced is the dreaded 'dirty brown' fuel leak found in the Anton series. Once this occurs, you have approximately 2-3 minutes of fuel. You were just unfortunate that the flak burst got both of your tanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifThis 'bug' was first noticed in 3.04, corrected in 4.01m, and reappears in 4.02m. Every since 3.04, I've always flown my FW190a w/a fuel tank. I give up some performance by having a full tank, but the piece of mind is worth it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HB

Brain32
01-05-2006, 11:27 AM
There is a good thing about it though, you became an expert for dead engine landing, not to mention that there will be no crash landings you can't walk away from http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Dash_C.
01-05-2006, 03:05 PM
For the A-8 there is an auxilliary tank (25.3 gal), a fuselage rear tank (64.5 gal) and a fuselage forward tank (51 gal)

I don't know how these are connected though...

luftluuver
01-06-2006, 06:43 AM
You can find scale drawings of Kurt Tank's 190 fighters here, http://www.albentley-drawings.com/german.htm

This game does not model individual fuel tanks, so if you get a leak in one tank, all the tanks are emptied. The pilot of the 190 could switch tanks. There is a light on the right side of the cockpit to tell the pilot when to switch to the forward main tank when the rear main tank was almost empty.

heloguy
01-06-2006, 07:04 AM
As far as how the tanks are connected, I'll assume(you know what they say about that) that the engine feed goes directly to the pilot's selecter valve in the cockpit. From there, there's probably a line that goes to each tank. The fuel is held in the line by suction from the engine fuel pump, and as long as everything stays airtight the line stays primed. This is coming from an airplane mechanic, but then again I've never worked on an FW-190. On the other hand, small airplane technology hasn't progressed too terribly far from the 1940's and 50's, which is kind of scary when you look at how far cars have come. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Anyway, hope that was somewhat informative. Oh yeah, as for when the pilot switches tanks, it's not too good of an idea to wait until the forward tank is empty to switch to the rear one. The pilot would try and keep the two balanced while in the air for obvious reasons. It'd be cool if that were modeled in the game, albeit a bit complicated I guess.

JG53Frankyboy
01-06-2006, 07:13 AM
btw, from the A8 on the 190 could carry 115 litres fuel more in an additional fuselage tank behind the cockpit - you see the tank in the A8 drawing (compare it to the A7 one) !

but not in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

luftluuver
01-06-2006, 07:17 AM
it's not too good of an idea to wait until the forward tank is empty to switch to the rear one.

It is not a good idea to empty the forward tank first. Plays heck with the CG and a rearward CG makes the a/c very hard to control.

whiteladder
01-06-2006, 08:20 AM
btw, from the A8 on the 190 could carry 115 litres fuel more in an additional fuselage tank behind the cockpit - you see the tank in the A8 drawing (compare it to the A7 one) !

but not in game

The main purpose of the tank was a reservoir for the Methanol/Water anti-detonation emergency boost mixture. I believe this could be used as an additional fuel tank is the need arised.

http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/8726/mw505ah.jpg

JG53Frankyboy
01-06-2006, 08:24 AM
yes, sure. and the BMW driven Fw190s had never MW50 in combat use - so, it was not installed or filled with fuel.

and btw, "Zusatzkraftstoffbeh√¬§lter" means "additional fueltank" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

whiteladder
01-06-2006, 09:13 AM
Thats interesting, my understanding was that the MW50 was available for the A4 with the BMW801 D2, but wasn`t fitted because the kits weren`t available and problems with it cracking the cylinder heads.

I thought that A8 was fitted with the MW50 tank and used it for that purpose (only as a fuel tank in an emergency)

Danschnell
01-06-2006, 10:08 AM
So its a bug. Is the Oleg team thinking of re-fixing it?
I thought the 190 had more tanks than it actually did because I was looking at oxygen bottles by mistake in my diagram. But now I definately see it has 3 tanks, a rear fusalage, a forward fuselage, and a small auxillary fuel tank.
In game the auxillary is used for WM boost, leaving it with 2 tanks. So, if the tanks are used in conjunction with each other as in real life, one fuel leak should never drain more than 50% fuel.
Then theres the issue that in IL2 self sealing tanks aren't modelled for the Fw190. Very very minor fuel tank hits ALWAYS drain all the fuel. To me, hits as minor as the ones I received should seal themselves.

The bug should be fixed, or at least have the fuel tank made harder to hit. At the moment the fuel tank leak is the easiest damage to occur, and it always happens 1st of all damage. The tank should be harder to hit and the damage it takes should not always be so severe, and the damage should not make both tanks always hit simultaneously.

This is a serious bug because it stops Fw190s going over enemy territory. I'm scared to cross that line ever. I know what will happen to my fuel. Is there a way of petitioning Oleg? Would that help?

luftluuver
01-06-2006, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by whiteladder:
Thats interesting, my understanding was that the MW50 was available for the A4 with the BMW801 D2, but wasn`t fitted because the kits weren`t available and problems with it cracking the cylinder heads.

I thought that A8 was fitted with the MW50 tank and used it for that purpose (only as a fuel tank in an emergency)
MW was ONLY tested on the A-4. The aux tank was not installed in any 190A until the A-8 and was only used to hold C-3 fuel. C-3 injection was better than MW50 injection.

whiteladder
01-12-2006, 05:13 AM
MW was ONLY tested on the A-4. The aux tank was not installed in any 190A until the A-8 and was only used to hold C-3 fuel. C-3 injection was better than MW50 injection.


This is all very interesting, learned more in a couple of threads than any where else, could I ask a couple of more questions?

Am I right in saying C3 involves spraying fuel into the first and second stages of the supecharger to prevent pre-detonation, and allowing the engine to run at the higher manifold pressure for longer (I realise C3 doesn`t actually increase manifold pressure)?

I understand now from this and other threads that the 115 tank was to compensate for the high fuel usage of C3,is the C3 fuel held in the 115 litre tank the same as the fuel in the main tanks (i.e. is C3 the name of the system not the fuel).

I also now know that some pilots didn`t have the tank fitted or it could be removed. Could C3 still be operated from the main tanks (assuming the answer to my second question is yes the fuel is the same)

Thanks

JG53Frankyboy
01-12-2006, 06:09 AM
the BMW801 had only a one stage supercharger , but with two speeds http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

i dont know where exactly the additional fuel was injected at "Erh√¬∂hte Notleistung" setting , BUT it cooled the engine internal that enabled the engine to run at higher boost setting.

the engine could run at the higher setting without fuelinjection - but would die very fast http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

the C3 is the name of the fuel quality. the BMW engines needed this higher octan gas.

and as the C3 was used for normal engine operations AND additional cooling injection - it was not necesarry to fit the 115 tank to use the "er√¬∂hte notleistung". it came all from the main fuel line.
as you see in your posted picture the 115 tank was normal conectet to the standart fueltanks.


sure in a 190D9'late the constriction locked otherkind. than there was no conection to the normal tanks , the 115 tank than was filled with MW50 fluid http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

quiet_man
01-12-2006, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Danschnell:
...
The bug should be fixed, or at least have the fuel tank made harder to hit. At the moment the fuel tank leak is the easiest damage to occur, and it always happens 1st of all damage. The tank should be harder to hit and the damage it takes should not always be so severe, and the damage should not make both tanks always hit simultaneously.
...


hmm, "easiest damage to occur"
might also explain why the 190 catches fire very easily on MG hits

quiet_man