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View Full Version : LaGG3 should be crappy and......



XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:09 PM
This plane can fly with power at 110% + 100% pitch + radiator closed without overheat infinitely!!!!!!!!!!!!. Its a very BIG Bug. I have flied in a Quick Mission with realistic settings more than 20 minutes and overheat message didnt appear!!!!

Pls, the next time that u modelled the LaGG3 remember these words: LAKIROVANI GARANTIROVANNI GROB (varnished coffin guaranteed).


Message Edited on 08/16/0305:13PM by SG1_Blaj

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:09 PM
This plane can fly with power at 110% + 100% pitch + radiator closed without overheat infinitely!!!!!!!!!!!!. Its a very BIG Bug. I have flied in a Quick Mission with realistic settings more than 20 minutes and overheat message didnt appear!!!!

Pls, the next time that u modelled the LaGG3 remember these words: LAKIROVANI GARANTIROVANNI GROB (varnished coffin guaranteed).


Message Edited on 08/16/0305:13PM by SG1_Blaj

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:28 PM
Turn on Engine overheat in the difficulty panel, I just tested your so called theory and my LaGG3 overheated after 4 minutes of flight under those conditions.

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:34 PM
Duh. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Noobie talks!

Learn more about the plane and provide some evidence and facts before you start screaming here "LaGG is BUGGED!!!".

The myth about "LAKIROVANI GARANTIROVANNI GROB" is not an evidence. It's just a myth and nothing more.

Please, remember that for any pilot who was always flying a responsive and highly maneuverable I-16, any new generation aircraft such as LaGG, Yak, MiG, Bf-109 or Spitfire would be a death trap.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:11 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- Turn on Engine overheat in the difficulty panel, I
- just tested your so called theory and my LaGG3
- overheated after 4 minutes of flight under those
- conditions.
-
- <center> <img
- src="http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.
- jpg"> </center>
-

Im speaking about LaGG3 s4 1941, no LaGG3 1943. I always fly with maximum difficult settings and I have turned on engine overheat in the difficulty panel

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:17 PM
FPS_Stierlitz wrote:
- Duh. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- Noobie talks!
-
- Learn more about the plane and provide some evidence
- and facts before you start screaming here "LaGG is
- BUGGED!!!".
-
- The myth about "LAKIROVANI GARANTIROVANNI GROB" is
- not an evidence. It's just a myth and nothing more.
-
- Please, remember that for any pilot who was always
- flying a responsive and highly maneuverable I-16,
- any new generation aircraft such as LaGG, Yak, MiG,
- Bf-109 or Spitfire would be a death trap.
-
-
-
-

Newbie talks!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL, search me in VEF and VOW stats pls.........

LaGG3 was a very crap plane. Stierlitz, u need read more. The hero of the Soviet union N. Skoromojov, pilot of LaGG3 of 31.IAP, said:

"Although the LaGG3 had an armament similar to the one of the Bf109, was slower, heavier and much less maneuverable."

And I repeat, he wasnt a german pilot, he was a RUSSIAN pilot.



Message Edited on 08/16/0306:18PM by SG1_Blaj

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:34 PM
SG1_Blaj wrote:
- Im speaking about LaGG3 s4 1941, no LaGG3 1943. I
- always fly with maximum difficult settings and I
- have turned on engine overheat in the difficulty
- panel

Did your test again in the LaGG3 '41 model and reached overheat point in less then 5 minutes.

So what's your point?

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XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:39 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- SG1_Blaj wrote:
-- Im speaking about LaGG3 s4 1941, no LaGG3 1943. I
-- always fly with maximum difficult settings and I
-- have turned on engine overheat in the difficulty
-- panel
-
- Did your test again in the LaGG3 '41 model and
- reached overheat point in less then 5 minutes.
-
- So what's your point?
-
- <center> <img
- src="http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.
- jpg"> </center>
-


In FB 1.1 beta I havent got overheat message in LaGG3 1941. Im sure 100% about it. Cappadocian_317, are u flying in FB 1.0?????????

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 07:59 PM
ANd adding to that,

the Lagg3s are incredible turners and energyholders now, just fly the plane and dive a little with no engine power at all, do some loops and so forth, does really anybody think this is realistic ?? If you dont know what i am talking about, good, this is intended, go and fly it, you will notice yourself..
I am not whining, the Lagg is an unimportant plane to me and i am pleased with the FW Fm changes, i just happend to fly Lagg yesterday and i tell you, they overlooked it, or something, anyway, its the new UFO plane after the Hurricane has been cut down, seems there is always one strange plane in the game, whatever they patch.

Yours,

II/JG54_Zent

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:23 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- SG1_Blaj wrote:
-- Im speaking about LaGG3 s4 1941, no LaGG3 1943. I
-- always fly with maximum difficult settings and I
-- have turned on engine overheat in the difficulty
-- panel
-
- Did your test again in the LaGG3 '41 model and
- reached overheat point in less then 5 minutes.
-
- So what's your point?
-
- <center> <img
- src="http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.
- jpg"> </center>
-

Try flying at low altitude (500 m) at about 400 kmh.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:23 PM
SG1_Blaj, your "stats" in an online war can hardly be taken as an evidence of your knowledge of history or russian aviation technology. No offence.

I am aware of what N. Skomorohov said about LaGG-3, and let me tell you that this quote is taken out of context.
(I am a native russian speaker).

Here's some recommended reading for you (in english):

LaGG-3 in Action (ISBN 0-89747-364-7)

There were numerous pilots who were very successful in the "crappy LaGG-3", including A.Alelyuhin, G.Onufrienko, V.Popkov.

Now about that "varnished coffin" myth.
Well, despite all it's disadvantages it was far from "turkey shoot" for Luftwaffe.

February 3, 1942, A.Gubanov shot down 3 Bf109 during a single flight.

March 21, 1942 near the town of Rzhev, five LaGG-3 (young seargeant V.Popkov was flying one of them) encountered a formation of approximately 30 different Luftwaffe aircraft. Five german planes were shot down. LaGGs didn't suffer any losses.

Gerhard Barkhorn (!!!) recalls his 40 minutes "dogfight" with a single LaGG-3 on the Stalingrad front. Both pilots could not get an "edge" and finally disengaged. The pilot of that LaGG-3 was A.Alelyuhin - a famous soviet ace.

Not very bad for a "crappy soviet plane" eh ?
Flown against a No.2 German Ace - G.Barkhorn !

Well, Alelyuhin was an extraordinary pilot, that's true.
On the same Stalingrad front he had another fight.
He was flying his LaGG-3 against 3 Bf.109F, shot down one Bf109, the other 3 Bf.109 disengaged and left.

Now please remember that an average soviet pilot usually had no more than 30 hours of training.
A typical "jagdgeschwader flieger" had approximately 450 hours !!!

P.Kamozin from 246th IAP shot down 2 Bf109G and one Bf.110 in one fight near Tuapse in November 1942. He finished the war with 36 personal kills (and 13 in group), 17 of his personal victories were achieved on LaGG-3.

How about A.Kulagin (249th IAP) who shot down 26 german aircraft while flying a "guaranteed coffin" ?

How about D.Nazarenko from 131th IAP who shot down 4 (four !!!) Bf.109 during a single engagement in 1942 on North-Caucasian front ? His kill count in the war lists 32 enemy aircraft.



OK. I know that now someone will come and say that it's all
a "stalinist commie propaganda lie" and simply not true.
I don't really care anymore. I just wanted to provide some alternative to what is usually posted by "pseudo-experts"
from an online GAME.


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif





Message Edited on 08/16/0308:24PM by FPS_Stierlitz

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:04 PM
FPS_Stierlitz wrote:
- SG1_Blaj, your "stats" in an online war can hardly
- be taken as an evidence of your knowledge of history
- or russian aviation technology. No offence.
-

First, my stats were my response at your phrase about that I was a Newbie

- Duh. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- Noobie talks!

If my stats had been crappy im sure that u had written "u are a bad pilot and u cant said nothing about overmodelled", im wrong??? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Second, and speaking of the main subject of this post, in FB 1.1b u cant overheat LaGG3 1941 at low altitude with 110% + 100% pitch + radiator closed. NOW I CAN SAID LaGG3 OVERMODELLED /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ))))

Third, puntual combats dont demonstrate that the LaGG3 was a great airplane. Im sure that great Russian aces were killed in a LaGG3. And in addition, How many LaGG3 was killed by German fighters and how many German fighters were killed by the LaGG3s???, I speak of total numbers to obtain the average of kills/losses. If you know as much of the LaGG3 you will know that these averages are quite bad for the LaGG, im wrong again?????? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Extracted of Soviet Aces of World War 2, Osprey Aviation :

"The first LaGG planes (LaGG3 1941 of FB) underwent little professional manufacturing techniques that, combined with inherent deficiencies to the design as a bad relation power - weight, a heavy elevator and also heavy ailerons, did that this airplane was vulnerable in combat as opposed to the Bf109 and Fw190."

As you see, I also have books like you and Im not a "pseudo-expert".

Then according to you, most of the historians are mistaken. Please, a little seriousness, those people know many things that as much you as I ignored.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:10 PM
You really should't underestimate Soviets propaganda machine, the Soviets used to be the BEST in everything on the world LOL!

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:27 PM
FPS_Stierlitz wrote:
- I am aware of what N. Skomorohov said about LaGG-3,
- and let me tell you that this quote is taken out of
- context.
- (I am a native russian speaker).



Please, enlighten us with the text where the quote was taken out.


- Now about that "varnished coffin" myth.
- Well, despite all it's disadvantages it was far from
- "turkey shoot" for Luftwaffe.


(Some wonderful, impressive Soviet feats of arms snipped)



- OK. I know that now someone will come and say that
- it's all
- a "stalinist commie propaganda lie" and simply not
- true.
- I don't really care anymore. I just wanted to
- provide some alternative to what is usually posted
- by "pseudo-experts"
- from an online GAME.



The following paragraphs are from "LaGG Fighters in action" from Squadron/Signal publications. I know it is not the best source, but I guess the author of the book used reliable sources:

"No matter how bad was a fighter you would always find pilots able to do wonders in those planes. IIRC Stuka ace Rudel claimed he shot down some Russian fighters while flying in a Stuka. Does it make the Stuka a wonderful fighter?

If you give me the best German fighter and then you take any inferior Russian fighter and fly against me, you will shoot me down nine times out of ten (I'm a newbie), but does it mean that your fighter is better than mine?

Conversion training was accomplished by such high attrition rate that the acronym "LaGG" began to take on another and more sinister connotation. Soviet Air Force pilots were suggesting that the acronym stood for "Lakirovanny Garantirovanny Grob", or "Varnished Guaranteed Coffin". Most pilot involved in the conversion cycle had flown the forgiving and extraordinarily maneuverable Polikarpov I-152 bi-plane. The LaGG-3 in contrast, was unforgiving, and was prone to an unheralded and vicious spin when engaged in deep step banking. It tended to nose-up during an approach and stalled at the least provocation. Conversion training with the LaGG-3 was seriously delayed beacuse of the fact that a considerably number of LaGG-3s had to be returned to the factories for maintenance. The fighter suffered from many teething problems with the hydraulic installation. There were frequent landing gear failures, the brakes had a tendency to seize and the operating gun was unrerliable. All of these problems had not been fully corrected by the Summer of 1941 when the Germans invaded the Soviet Union."

"Some skilled pilots, however , mastered the LaGG-3 and went on to score impressive victoriy tallies../text snipped) .. Such pilots were the exception, however, and their skill had nothing to do with the qualities of LaGG-3"

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 10:32 PM
I wanted to write:

- No matter how bad was a fighter you would always
- find pilots able to do wonders in those planes. IIRC
- Stuka ace Rudel claimed he shot down some Russian
- fighters while flying in a Stuka. Does it make the
- Stuka a wonderful fighter?
-
- If you give me the best German fighter and then you
- take any inferior Russian fighter and fly against
- me, you will shoot me down nine times out of ten
- (I'm a newbie), but does it mean that your fighter
- is better than mine?
-
-
-
- The following paragraphs are from "LaGG Fighters in
- action" from Squadron/Signal publications. I know it
- is not the best source, but I guess the author of
- the book used reliable sources:
-
-
- "Conversion training was accomplished by such high
- attrition rate that the acronym "LaGG" began to take
- on another and more sinister connotation. Soviet Air
- Force pilots were suggesting that the acronym stood
- for "Lakirovanny Garantirovanny Grob", or "Varnished
- Guaranteed Coffin". Most pilot involved in the
- conversion cycle had flown the forgiving and
- extraordinarily maneuverable Polikarpov I-152
- bi-plane. The LaGG-3 in contrast, was unforgiving,
- and was prone to an unheralded and vicious spin when
- engaged in deep step banking. It tended to nose-up
- during an approach and stalled at the least
- provocation. Conversion training with the LaGG-3 was
- seriously delayed beacuse of the fact that a
- considerably number of LaGG-3s had to be returned to
- the factories for maintenance. The fighter suffered
- from many teething problems with the hydraulic
- installation. There were frequent landing gear
- failures, the brakes had a tendency to seize and the
- operating gun was unrerliable. All of these problems
- had not been fully corrected by the Summer of 1941
- when the Germans invaded the Soviet Union."
-
- "Some skilled pilots, however , mastered the LaGG-3
- and went on to score impressive victoriy
- tallies../text snipped) .. Such pilots were the
- exception, however, and their skill had nothing to
- do with the qualities of LaGG-3"

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:10 PM
SG1_Blaj wrote:
-
- FPS_Stierlitz wrote:
-- SG1_Blaj, your "stats" in an online war can hardly
-- be taken as an evidence of your knowledge of history
-- or russian aviation technology. No offence.
--
-
- First, my stats were my response at your phrase
- about that I was a Newbie

No offence, Blaj, but I am talking about your knowledge of the subject (history). I may be wrong, of course, but that's my first impression.

- Second, and speaking of the main subject of this
- post, in FB 1.1b u cant overheat LaGG3 1941 at low
- altitude with 110% + 100% pitch + radiator closed.
- NOW I CAN SAID LaGG3 OVERMODELLED

Really ? Strange , because it does overheat at these settings. Am I flying a different patch ? 1.1b here too...


- Third, puntual combats dont demonstrate that the
- LaGG3 was a great airplane. Im sure that great
- Russian aces were killed in a LaGG3. And in
- addition, How many LaGG3 was killed by German
- fighters and how many German fighters were killed by
- the LaGG3s???, I speak of total numbers to obtain
- the average of kills/losses. If you know as much of
- the LaGG3 you will know that these averages are
- quite bad for the LaGG, im wrong again??????

Well, when you look at statistics and search for the russian pilots opinions on LaGG-3, you'll find that many of them WOULD actually prefer and I-16 to the "new" LaGG.
LaGGs also had higher relative losses during the start of the war when compared to I-16. What does it say about it's qualities ? Not much. However, it says a lot about russian pilots training and tactical incompetence.

The article I quoted is written by a well known specialists in russian aviation history - Vasiliy Alekseenko and Mikhail Nikolskiy after 1990. You can forward your questions to them, if you like.


-
- Then according to you, most of the historians are
- mistaken. Please, a little seriousness, those people
- know many things that as much you as I ignored.
-

The history of WWII is very far from being completely researched and known. There are many "white pages" there still. Overcoming some old "myths" of the cold war is hard, I know, But it's a two-way process involving some re-evaluation of former "official historians" on both sides.
Sadly, this process is not very successful in the west comparing to what's going on in modern Russia. You'd be surprized, but people on russian history forums are very open towards criticism. They are themselves very careful about quoting "soviet" data, which is very very positive, respected and welcomed change. I am yet to see people in the west being so critical about their past.
I am saying that here only because I am able to compare the tendencies on both sides, especially since I emigrated from Russia in 1990 when I was 16 years old and although I am familiar with russian cultural and historical heritage, I consider myself as a part of the "western civilization".
Therefore I might see things not readily apparent for an average forum reader or an ordinary western aviation or history buff.


So, please, no offence /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the name of the soviet pilot, I didn't know who was the opponent of Barkhorn though I had heard about this dogfight.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:55 AM
You are absolutely correct, SG1_Blaj.

But let me speak from experience, you are wasting your time arguing with these people who have no idea what they are talking about. They were saying the same things three years and 10 patches ago.

Perhaps you should consider sending Oleg an email.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high that this issue will be resolved to your satisfaction.

--------------------------------------

"Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the government when it deserves it."

Mark Twain

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:05 AM
Boy this Lagg bashing will never end. The overhate thing is an issue though but it doesn't hold it's energy longer tha nany other plane and it doesn't turn better than the Yaks for example. Just don't think that the Emil can win a sustained turn against it.

<hr>
<table border="0" width="100%"><tr><td width="50%"><font size=2><font size="-1"> and did those feet in ancient times
trod america's pastures of green?
and did that <font color="#FF0000">anthropocentric</font> god <font color="#FF0000">wane</font>
with their thoughts and beliefs all unseen?
I don't think so,
he's up there with the others lying low,
<font color="#FF0000">vying</font> with those who you've traded
your life to bless your soul,
and have they told you how to think,</font></font></td><td width="50%"><font size=2><font size="-1">
cleansed your mind of <font color="#FF0000">sepsis</font> and autonomy?
or have you escaped scrutiny,
and <font color="#FF0000">regaled</font> yourself with <font color="#FF0000">depravity</font>?
now we all see, "religion is just synthetic
<font color="#FF0000">frippery</font>, unnecessary in our expanding
global culture efficiency"
and don't you fear this impasse
we have built to our future?
ever so near,
and oh so <font color="#FF0000">austere</font> </font></font></td></tr></table>

http://thebrpage.tierranet.com/pix/Greg/graffin2_sm.jpg

"God Song" by Bad Religion

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:25 AM
I`ve been flying the lagg extensively and sure does heat it quick. Even when I have the radiator wide open. The later lagg also does this and seems to snap a bit quick in high altitude manouevers. It`s a good plane, but nothing like SG1_Blaj makes out.

And I`m not going into a silly slanging match with him. I`m saying it like I`ve experienced it.

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:32 AM
Well esspecially Lagg'41 was kickass plane in FB 1.0 and still is in FB 1.1.. it does not seem to loose any E on turns.. I mean it beats 109 F-4 on turn fight with ease.. LAgg Should be a B&Z-plane, not a turn fighter.. it was heavy, and not that powerfull engine..and it even had some armor, which other present soviet fighters didn't really have.. sure its a good plane, when properly used but it should not be this good of a turn fighter.. Sure there are aces for every plane.. HAven't tested overheating in FB 1.1 yet with Lagg'3 41 and 43 but I will give it a try later..And I believe early Laggs had some tecnical problems too, due to low-quality build.. With proper tactics I'm sure soviet-pilots could have been quite successfull with Lagg3 early on the war..


Here is what Finnish aces thought about Lagg-3 (Virtualpilots.fi) :
"The LaGG-3 is not especially agile in dogfight. It usually tries an outflanking approach from up and behind, shoots and pulls up. Likes head-on shooting. The tail has a heavy armour. When attacked it tries to evade with a quick half aileron roll to either side. The most vulnerable points are the engine and the radiator below the aircraft. "

Nuff said.

____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:29 AM
He's correct LaGG3 '41 does not overheat, even when running full throttle, pitch 100% and radiator closed. The temperature guage rises and the temp. warning light comes on, but you receive no "Engine Overheat!" warning message and no damage occurs to the engine.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:48 AM
The object viewer says:

climb to 5000m= 6:48
turn time at 1000m= 20 seconds

I got (100% throttle, 100% fuel)

climb to 5000m= 7:12
turn time at 1000m= 20-21 seconds

So at least for bleed in turn, and climb rate, there is nothing wrong. Bf-109F could easily outturn or outclimb this plane.

I don't know about overheat. I have read that LaGG-3 historiaclly had problems with overheat, but I don't know if thats true.



http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb06894.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb57471.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb11726.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb75733.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80477.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb64472.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb59442.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb80347.gif http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb73057.gif <img src="http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb48642.gif>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:04 AM
StG77_Fennec wrote:
- I don't know about overheat. I have read that
- LaGG-3 historiaclly had problems with overheat, but
- I don't know if thats true.

I think we can all agree that, historically, the engine was capable of overheating.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:14 AM
SG1_Blaj wrote:
- In FB 1.1 beta I havent got overheat message in
- LaGG3 1941. Im sure 100% about it. Cappadocian_317,
- are u flying in FB 1.0?????????

No I am not sure I installed the 1.1b patch.http://www.322squadron.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif


What do you think?

The longest awaiting patch since the IL2 series and you think I wait that long to install it?

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XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:19 AM
SG1_Blaj wrote:
- Third, puntual combats dont demonstrate that the
- LaGG3 was a great airplane. Im sure that great
- Russian aces were killed in a LaGG3. And in
- addition, How many LaGG3 was killed by German
- fighters and how many German fighters were killed by
- the LaGG3s???, I speak of total numbers to obtain
- the average of kills/losses. If you know as much of
- the LaGG3 you will know that these averages are
- quite bad for the LaGG, im wrong again??????

Another lame attept to bring up the "during the war the Germans killed many Russians so their planes must be better" bollocks.

This is getting sooooooooooo old.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:06 AM
I see that some people continue doubting my word. I repeat, the LaGG3 1941 cant overheat at low altitude in FB 1.1b. You can fly all time in straight line at 500 meters in a QM in Smolesnk map with 110% of power, 100% of pitch and closed radiator. I flew of this form more than 20 minutes and overheat message didnt appear. Its strange that at high altitude (5000m for example) overheat message if appears. This causes that I think that there is some type of failure in the high altitude FM. Everybody knows that at 5000 m the air is very very cool, much more than at sea level. Then the overheating of the motor would even have to be SMALLER, I cant understand it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:39 AM
Same is true for FW190A4/5 is it not? above 500m on Crimea map with 110% and auto pitch and rad closed I never got overheat message. I would bet that the real planes would overheat. So send Oleg a bug report and be done with it.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:41 AM
FPS_Stierlitz wrote:
-
-- Second, and speaking of the main subject of this
-- post, in FB 1.1b u cant overheat LaGG3 1941 at low
-- altitude with 110% + 100% pitch + radiator closed.
-- NOW I CAN SAID LaGG3 OVERMODELLED
-
- Really ? Strange , because it does overheat at these
- settings. Am I flying a different patch ? 1.1b here
- too...
-

U are doubting my words, AGAIN. Try the settings of my last post and u can see it.

-
-- Third, puntual combats dont demonstrate that the
-- LaGG3 was a great airplane. Im sure that great
-- Russian aces were killed in a LaGG3. And in
-- addition, How many LaGG3 was killed by German
-- fighters and how many German fighters were killed by
-- the LaGG3s???, I speak of total numbers to obtain
-- the average of kills/losses. If you know as much of
-- the LaGG3 you will know that these averages are
-- quite bad for the LaGG, im wrong again??????
-
- Well, when you look at statistics and search for the
- russian pilots opinions on LaGG-3, you'll find that
- many of them WOULD actually prefer and I-16 to the
- "new" LaGG.
- LaGGs also had higher relative losses during the
- start of the war when compared to I-16. What does it
- say about it's qualities ? Not much. However, it
- says a lot about russian pilots training and
- tactical incompetence.
-
- The article I quoted is written by a well known
- specialists in russian aviation history - Vasiliy
- Alekseenko and Mikhail Nikolskiy after 1990. You can
- forward your questions to them, if you like.
-

U dont speak nothing about the extract of Soviet Aces of World War 2 that I wrote in the other post. For u that text is false?????? For me that text it says that the LaGG3 was a badly fighter, is not strange to me that most of its pilots hated it.

Also I would like to say that as much Finnish, Germans and even Japanese pilots flied captured LaGG3 and I assure to you that for anything they were impressed with its capacities of flight.

Ah!!In my other post I forgot answer to this

- I am aware of what N. Skomorohov said about LaGG-3,
- and let me tell you that this quote is taken out of
- context.

Out of context????????????????Out of context??????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????
That pilot is saying clearly that the LaGG3 was inferior in practically everything to the 109 and 190 against which it had to fight

-
- So, please, no offence
-

What????? U are offending me all time doubting my words. Doubting about that LaGG3 1941 is OVERMODELLED. U fly in red side and Im sure that u and your sqn teamates DONT WANT A BADLY LAGG FOR FIGHT IN OFFICIAL COMPETITIONS. The only one that is offending here are you.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:44 AM
Fillmore wrote:
- Same is true for FW190A4/5 is it not? above 500m on
- Crimea map with 110% and auto pitch and rad closed I
- never got overheat message. I would bet that the
- real planes would overheat. So send Oleg a bug
- report and be done with it.
-
-

Try in Smolensk map at low altitude, A4 overheat in 3 min 35 sec aprox.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:14 AM
So it doesn't overheat below 500 meters and you come here whining that the plane is totally uber because of this.

How many dogfights occur below 500 meters? I would say none but that's just me I guess.

As soon as you get above 500 meters it will overheat within a few seconds so it's not a huge bug as you put it since it overheat value is still normal at altitude.

Other then the below 500 meter overheat this plane is pretty much no real challenge to combat in an FW190A or Bf109 E or F, and against the later model aircraft it's completely useless unless the other pilot is a complete noob.

So yes, I really agree that this plane is totally uber and should be punched into submission by Oleg right away, the agony of fighting this plane is to the point of frustration and I nearly wanted to kill myself because it's uberness.http://www.322squadron.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif


<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:30 AM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- So it doesn't overheat below 500 meters and you come
- here whining that the plane is totally uber because
- of this.
-
- How many dogfights occur below 500 meters? I would
- say none but that's just me I guess.
-
- As soon as you get above 500 meters it will overheat
- within a few seconds so it's not a huge bug as you
- put it since it overheat value is still normal at
- altitude.
-


Its absolutely unreal that a plane can fly all time at 110%. 110% damaged the motor in the real planes. This power was used only in cases of extreme necessity (to save the own life for example). In no case it could be activated much more that a small time interval or the motor would finish seriously damaged.

At 1000-2000 m bug is working too. And many combats in VEF an VOW competitions finish at sea level(below 500m).

- Other then the below 500 meter overheat this plane
- is pretty much no real challenge to combat in an
- FW190A or Bf109 E or F, and against the later model
- aircraft it's completely useless unless the other
- pilot is a complete noob.

Bf109E is absolutely inferior to tha LaGG3 1941 of FB 1.1b, and LaGG3 can overturn a 109 F2-F4 perfectly and run only 10 kmh less.

-
- So yes, I really agree that this plane is totally
- uber and should be punched into submission by Oleg
- right away, the agony of fighting this plane is to
- the point of frustration and I nearly wanted to kill
- myself because it's uberness

I have come here to report bug, I dont have to discuss things without sense.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:53 AM
Not for me, once I go above 500 meters I get engine overheat, I was at 1000+ meters at the time of overheat.
So now you also claim that between 1000 en 2000 meters it doesn't overheat as well.

Let's sum it up now:

First claim: It doesn't overheat at all.

You get replies from people say it does.

Second claim: It doesn't overheat below 500 meters.

Correct, it doesn't but once you get above 500 meters it does.

And now it also doesn't overheat between 1000 and 2000 meters?
Sorry but for it does overheat at 1000 to 2000 meters normally.

So you noticed a bug but your way of putting it here was totally crapped up by your arrogance, make normal posts and don't whine and act like this plane cannot be shot down because it can.

You were acting like this plane is waaaaay overmodelled on all aspects.
I have zero problems shooting this crate down in an Bf109 E or F.
So it can out turn you, big deal, you still out climb, out dive and out run it.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:14 PM
"VF2_John_Banks wrote:
The overhate
- thing is an issue though but it doesn't hold it's
- energy longer tha nany other plane and it doesn't
- turn better than the Yaks for example.

well said John,

ive been flying Lagg-IT and Lagg'43 since the beginning of IL2 as my aircraft of speciality. The way i fly it, i can (with difficulty) turn same rate as 109F2 (need takeoff flaps on). I can turn inside a Yak3 (combat flaps). Acceleration is responsive, so gives good control, however amount of power is lacking in a steady climb (typical 109 evasion tactic).

summary - Its a nice plane, but not the one that will win you fights often until youve got a good understanding of combat tactics. even then, some opponent will be extremely hard to beat if theyre good pilots, i myself only expect a 60% chance of survival against a dedicated squad pilot.

Shrike

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:23 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- Not for me, once I go above 500 meters I get engine
- overheat, I was at 1000+ meters at the time of
- overheat.
- So now you also claim that between 1000 en 2000
- meters it doesn't overheat as well.
-
- Let's sum it up now:
-
- First claim: It doesn't overheat at all.
-
- You get replies from people say it does.
-
- Second claim: It doesn't overheat below 500 meters.
-
- Correct, it doesn't but once you get above 500
- meters it does.
-
- And now it also doesn't overheat between 1000 and
- 2000 meters?
- Sorry but for it does overheat at 1000 to 2000
- meters normally.
-
- So you noticed a bug but your way of putting it here
- was totally crapped up by your arrogance, make
- normal posts and don't whine and act like this plane
- cannot be shot down because it can.


IN FB1.1b LaGG3 1941 DIDNT OVERHEAT AT LOW ALTITUDE ITS THE LAST TIME THAT I SAY IT. IM NOT WHINNING IT IS A REAL BUG.

- You were acting like this plane is waaaaay
- overmodelled on all aspects.
- I have zero problems shooting this crate down in an
- Bf109 E or F.
- So it can out turn you, big deal, you still out
- climb, out dive and out run it.

Emil is slower than a LaGG3 and u cant out run it.



Message Edited on 08/17/0311:24AM by SG1_Blaj

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:27 PM
Fillmore wrote:
- Same is true for FW190A4/5 is it not? above 500m on
- Crimea map with 110% and auto pitch and rad closed I
- never got overheat message. I would bet that the
- real planes would overheat. So send Oleg a bug
- report and be done with it.
-
-

I have flied a 190 A4 in Crimea map above 500 m with 110% of power + auto pitch + radiator closed and overheat message appeared in the 3 min 40 sec since begin of the QM.

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:31 PM
James_Gang wrote:
- You are absolutely correct, SG1_Blaj.
-
- But let me speak from experience, you are wasting
- your time arguing with these people who have no idea
- what they are talking about. They were saying the
- same things three years and 10 patches ago.
-
- Perhaps you should consider sending Oleg an email.
-
- I wouldn't get my hopes up too high that this issue
- will be resolved to your satisfaction.
-
---------------------------------------
-
- "Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the
- government when it deserves it."
-
- Mark Twain
-

You are in the certain thing, Im beginning to be tired. MATES, I HAVE ONLY COME HERE TO REPORT A BUG. DONT EAT ME!!!!!!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 12:48 PM
Btw, the Hurri doesn't overheat either.

<hr>
<table border="0" width="100%"><tr><td width="50%"><font size=2><font size="-1"> and did those feet in ancient times
trod america's pastures of green?
and did that <font color="#FF0000">anthropocentric</font> god <font color="#FF0000">wane</font>
with their thoughts and beliefs all unseen?
I don't think so,
he's up there with the others lying low,
<font color="#FF0000">vying</font> with those who you've traded
your life to bless your soul,
and have they told you how to think,</font></font></td><td width="50%"><font size=2><font size="-1">
cleansed your mind of <font color="#FF0000">sepsis</font> and autonomy?
or have you escaped scrutiny,
and <font color="#FF0000">regaled</font> yourself with <font color="#FF0000">depravity</font>?
now we all see, "religion is just synthetic
<font color="#FF0000">frippery</font>, unnecessary in our expanding
global culture efficiency"
and don't you fear this impasse
we have built to our future?
ever so near,
and oh so <font color="#FF0000">austere</font> </font></font></td></tr></table>

http://thebrpage.tierranet.com/pix/Greg/graffin2_sm.jpg

"God Song" by Bad Religion

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:04 PM
SG1_Blaj wrote:
- You are in the certain thing, Im beginning to be
- tired. MATES, I HAVE ONLY COME HERE TO REPORT A BUG.
- DONT EAT ME!!!!!!!!

Then next time report your bug in NORMAL manor instead of the way you did it now.

I will make it easy on you with an example:

Hello,

I have a bug to report with version 1.1b.

When you fly below 500 meters the LaGG3 1942 model does not overheat, only above 500 meters it does.

Regards,

Blaj

That is the way to do it, all your posts in this thread are 10% bug report and 90% useless whining.

The initial post was not even an accurate bug report in any way since it didn't contain the model of the LaGG3 and you claimed it didn't overheat at all.

So, less whining and bull remarks and get straight to the point next time with DETAILED information.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:30 PM
Say whatever you can men. Some planes no overheat and don't damage the engine with long time use of emergency power.


Let's fix the no overheating of the LaGG3.



http://asakiyumemishi.com/fw190B.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 04:09 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- Turn on Engine overheat in the difficulty panel, I
- just tested your so called theory and my LaGG3
- overheated after 4 minutes of flight under those
- conditions.

The 43s do. They overheat at 115?C. Strangely the 41 one doesn't. The cockpit OH light goes on, but it just overheats at 125?. So this one really overheats hardly. Even worse is the Hurricane. I NEVER could overheat them, IIRC only once while i Climbed up to 7000m. And there the message came and just 2sec later it disappered again.



StG77_Fennec wrote:
- The object viewer says:
-
- climb to 5000m= 6:48

Hmm i doubt this data is right.

Someone posted this table in another Thread ( http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvaoo&tpage=2 ):

<table border="1"> <tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt"> <td height="17" width="64" style="height:12.75pt;width:48pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" bordercolor="#000000">Produced</td>
<td width="179" style="width:134pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" bordercolor="#000000">Plane</td>
<td width="111" style="width:83pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" bordercolor="#000000">Serial
Number</td>
<td width="95" style="width:71pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" bordercolor="#000000">Max
Speed</td>
<td width="114" style="width:86pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" bordercolor="#000000">Max
Speed/Alt</td>
<td width="64" style="width:48pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" bordercolor="#000000">Climb
to</td>
</tr>
<tr height="21" style="mso-height-source:userset;height:15.75pt">
<td height="21" style="height:15.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" bordercolor="#000000">Year</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">Plane</td>
<td x:str="Serial " bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">Serial</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">Sea level</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">km/h /meters</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">5000/min</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">
<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1942</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">LaGG-3 Œ-105</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">N 3121855- '42</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">462</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">554/4850</td>
<td align="right" x:num="9.1" bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">9,1</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">
<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1942</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">LaGG-3 Œ-105</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">N 3121232</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">466</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">539/5100</td>
<td align="right" x:num="7.1" bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">7,1</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">
<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1943</td>
<td x:str="LaGG-3 " bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">LaGG-3</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">N 6311 - V.43</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">534</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">590 / 3600</td>
<td align="right" x:num="5.5" bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">5,5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">
<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1943</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">LaGG-3 Œ-105ӝ</td>
<td x:str=" N 6542 " bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>N
6542</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica"> </td>
<td x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">581</td>
<td align="right" x:num="5.4" bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">5,4</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">
<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1943</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">La-5</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>N
39213047ӝ</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">560</td>
<td x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">600</td>
<td align="right" x:num="5.5" bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">5,5</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">
<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1943</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">La-5 Œ-82 F</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">N 39213718 ӝ</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">550</td>
<td x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">595</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">6</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">

<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1943</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">La--5 FN</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>N
39210531</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">572</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">625 / 6200</td>
<td align="right" x:num="5.3" bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">5,3</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">
<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1943</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">La-5 FN</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>N
39210540</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">570</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">636 / 6200</td>
<td align="right" x:num="5.3" bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">5,3</td>
</tr>
<tr height="17" style="height:12.75pt">
<td height="17" align="right" style="height:12.75pt; font-family:Arial, Helvetica" x:num bordercolor="#000000">1943</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">La-5F</td>
<td bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">N 39213973</td>
<td align="right" x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">552</td>
<td x:num bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">593</td>
<td align="right" x:num="5.6" bordercolor="#000000" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica">5,6</td>
</tr>
</table>

Notice that the '42 LaGGs need 9,1 resp. 7,1 min to climb to 5000m. Now the 42 models were already relatively light models. They most probably had the same armament as the S66, or maybe one 12,7 more. And there were also ligher ones in 41. But we got the heaviest with 5 guns.

Another good source that proofs the S4 climbs too good:
http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/steig41.jpg


Compare to:
climb time, every 1km:
01:02 02:06 03:15 04:33 05:51 07:27 09:32
climb rate, 500, 1500, 2500m and so on:
16 15,6 14,5 12,8 12,8 10,4 8

Also notice the Yak-1's and 109F-1's climb. I think they're way too god in FB, too. F-1 is like F-2 in performance IIRC.

-
- I got (100% throttle, 100% fuel)
-
- climb to 5000m= 7:12

As you can see above, it can be done even better. This test was done by Atzebrueck in beta08. I tested it again in 1.1b and it was very similar - so nothing changed.

- turn time at 1000m= 20-21 seconds

Yeah, finally that's OK. It turned much better in 1.0 IIRC.



Now about the FW climb. I have to admit something I've found out. I first wanted to keep it secret, but others would have found it out sooner or later, too. There's a bug in the radiator control. You normally start with them closed which means least cooling and most drag. Opened it's the opposite. Now german AC have automatic radiators, and they're on auto when you start. The bug is, that if you don't touch them, they will grant maximum cooling AND minimum drag. That's why they hardly overheat. If you close then, you will overheat like in Il-2 days. I think this bug is in here because they wanted to fix the non-complex EM. There you also have Auto or Opened in german AC which dragged them down because the rads virtually never were closed.
But: If they fix that, I want to have some better engines. 109s for example overheat very quickly. That's OK - but they need to reach their stated climb rates (eg: 4,7min 0-5000m 109G-2) with just 100% and fully opened rads. I also think the radiator drag is off. It should of course decrease top speed. But like the 109G-6 bulges, they should NOT decrease climb at low speeds that much. Drag is just important are more speed. Also the MW-50 ones can't WEP 10 minutes. Later the K-4 pilots were restricted to 1-3min, but that was because of the worse production standard for sure. And of course - engines got expensive - there weren't that much anymore, so every engine had to be used safely.


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 04:31 PM
109e use wep in this data

f1 not



Message Edited on 08/17/0306:32PM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 11:50 PM
don't you guys know that EVERY PATCH for any computer program follows the rule that the developers let loose 150% more bugs than what the patch fixed.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:30 AM
Another history lesson...

I remember reading that some of the programmers for the original "Wing Commander" game were happy to work on a space sim because a)they didn't have to come up with computer code where things could crash into the ground, and b)they could pull the specs for the planes out of a hat and nobody would say boo about it.

After Flanker, Sturmovik, and Lock-On, I'd imagine that Oleg and his team would take the route provided by recent history and come up with a nice, easy space sim.

Personally, I'd be up for flying Eagle One as Alan Carter from Space:1999!!

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 11:43 AM
Stryker_214 wrote:
- don't you guys know that EVERY PATCH for any
- computer program follows the rule that the
- developers let loose 150% more bugs than what the
- patch fixed.

Don't you know that this figure (150%) is made up!?!?!

----

Seriously, I don't see a problem even if the LaGG3 fails to overheat under 500. Anyone tooling around under 500m is about to get a spanking from above and behind no matter what they fly.

To report a bug, follow the procedure in the readme. Report the bug only, not how you feel about it. Thank you, come again.

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 02:49 PM
Shrike I am a bit of a Lagg3 fan myself, would you consider sharing some more on how to fly the Lagg ? Perhaps in GD forum ? I just like this plane for some reason and think since we don't have poor construction to worry about in FB that it can be a reall good ride. I'm surprised that you usetake-off flaps , i hadnt tried that. Also do you have any suggestions for speeds that give best turns , climbs etc.

Thank You,



KSS_Shrike_UK wrote:
- -
- ive been flying Lagg-IT and Lagg'43 since the
- beginning of IL2 as my aircraft of speciality. The
- way i fly it, i can (with difficulty) turn same rate
- as 109F2 (need takeoff flaps on). I can turn inside
- a Yak3 (combat flaps). Acceleration is responsive,
- so gives good control, however amount of power is
- lacking in a steady climb (typical 109 evasion
- tactic).
-
- summary - Its a nice plane, but not the one that
- will win you fights often until youve got a good
- understanding of combat tactics. even then, some
- opponent will be extremely hard to beat if theyre
- good pilots, i myself only expect a 60% chance of
- survival against a dedicated squad pilot.
-
- Shrike
-
-



http://laurenharman.tripod.com/halloween/images/photos/underdog.jpg


"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:40 PM
LaGG is a yeoman's plane - it does nothing especially well, but everything okay.

It's very well balanced, just as it was in IL-2.

If you don't get suckered into a vertical fight, you can hold your own against an over-eager enemy.


Please don't forget the LaGG's problem in Real Life (tm) wasn't the design of the plane, it was the poor quality control of the manufacturing, something NOT modeled in the sim. This was owing to the fact it was one of the first models produced during the movement of factories to the East.

We get a factory fresh, quality manufactured plane that performs exactly as every other plane made at every restart, with zero hours on the engine, clean fuel and oil, and prepared to perfection by a crew chief so good he's done and back in his tent even before we get in the aircraft!


Message Edited on 08/18/0304:44PM by BA_Dart

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 10:18 PM
hehe, it's even worse when neither party knows what it is talking about http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:51 AM
Cappadikkianinniani you are really childish if you say dogfights do not happen under 500meters. Especially the "running away from the fight" usually happens in low alt after a dive. If a fighter can unrealistically escape with 110% engine, 100%pitch and radiator closed then IT IS A BUG and you are also if you say it is not important.

-possu

"Ryss¤t on paskoja" -T.O. Dellisuus

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:16 PM
TurboPorsas wrote:
- Cappadikkianinniani you are really childish if you
- say dogfights do not happen under 500meters.
- Especially the "running away from the fight" usually
- happens in low alt after a dive. If a fighter can
- unrealistically escape with 110% engine, 100%pitch
- and radiator closed then IT IS A BUG and you are
- also if you say it is not important.
-
--possu
-
- "Ryss¤t on paskoja" -T.O. Dellisuus

Seems you failed to read the rest of the thread.

Read it again and try to understand why it was said, and if you can't then your IQ is below my shoe size divided by 2.

I already said that yes it's a bug but the way the whole thing started is way overblown, inaccurate and moronic.

If the guy who started this thread provided all information accurately in a normal mannor instead of acting like a baby that pooped his diaper 3 hours ago and is still sitting in it then it was not even remotely like this.

And if he read the readme and followed the normal channels for bug reporting it would not have happend at all.

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:17 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- Seems you failed to read the rest of the thread.

you is wrong, i read it.


- Read it again and try to understand why it was said,
- and if you can't then your IQ is below my shoe size
- divided by 2.

Sorry i really suck at math too.. What is 66.5 divided by two anyway?


- I already said that yes it's a bug but the way the
- whole thing started is way overblown, inaccurate and
- moronic.

You stated it is an UNIMPORTANT bug since NO-ONE EVER FIGHTS UNDER 500m. I just replied that you are incorrect and seem to be either n00b or very vvs-biased. Most fights I have been in have someone flying low and being able to go full blast indefinietly there is a serious bug. I guess if there was a german plane with the same "minor bug" you would be running to your mama AND daddy.

-
- If the guy who started this thread provided all
- information accurately in a normal mannor instead of
- acting like a baby that pooped his diaper 3 hours
- ago and is still sitting in it then it was not even
- remotely like this.

Actually he just said he came across this little thing that doesnt seen realistic or something of the sort. You could have said "bump" or "true" but you decided to go the other way and start flaming the poor dude who seemed to have all good intentions.


- And if he read the readme and followed the normal
- channels for bug reporting it would not have happend
- at all.

True. It is still not his fault if you go ape-poop on him tho.

-Possu

"Uskomaton jurpo" - G.G. Kukonimij¤

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:36 PM
If it was a bug with a german plane I could not care less.

The way he explained the bug it was like the entire plane was waaaaaaaaaaaaay overmodelled and this is not the case.

Like I said before, 90% useless whining and 10% bug reporting.

Your response is 99% bollocks and 1% useful.

Even if my shoe size was 66.5 it's an overstatement to rate your IQ half of that.
You have more IQ stored in your navel as navel lint then in your head.


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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:08 PM
"I have flied a 190 A4 in Crimea map above 500 m with 110% of power + auto pitch + radiator closed and overheat message appeared in the 3 min 40 sec since begin of the QM."

Hmm, I just tried it and it did overheat. But when I did speed testing the other day I flew at max speed forever and never overheated.

So upon further research I have found another bug. In 1.0 FW190A had no "auto/closed" radiator setting, and the radiator defaulted to "closed". In 1.1b the FW190A has an "auto/closed" radiator setting, and that is also the default setting. Now for the BUG. Start the QMB and do not touch the radiator setting, leave it at the default. You now have the cooling capacity of the "open" position, but the induced drag of the "closed" position.

I set auto level on and got it at 551kph TAS at about 550m and it runs forever without overheat. Now I set radiator to "closed" and it still runs at 551kph, but now it overheats. So I go back to "auto/closed" setting and it stops overheating, but speed drops below 510kph. I go through the settings and now "auto/closed" setting gives same speed as "open" setting, but when I started the mission it was giving me the speed of "closed" setting. I have not tested this online.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:14 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:

- Your response is 99% bollocks and 1% useful.
-
- Even if my shoe size was 66.5 it's an overstatement
- to rate your IQ half of that.
- You have more IQ stored in your navel as navel lint
- then in your head.
-
-

lol I honestly think this says way more about you than me <-notice correct spelling /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

IBTL

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:25 PM
- I set auto level on and got it at 551kph TAS at
- about 550m and it runs forever without overheat.
- Now I set radiator to "closed" and it still runs at
- 551kph, but now it overheats. So I go back to
- "auto/closed" setting and it stops overheating, but
- speed drops below 510kph. I go through the settings
- and now "auto/closed" setting gives same speed as
- "open" setting, but when I started the mission it
- was giving me the speed of "closed" setting.

When it is in AUTO it is closed unless the engine needs cooling. When the temperature falls to normal it closes again. That means it might change between closed and 2-settings and that means very low drag. When you set it to CLOSED and let it overheat and then switch it to AUTO-setting the temp may be so high that automatic puts it to OPEN until it cools. That means flying with a high drag even though the setting is the same.. I hope this makes sense to you. Cappa, if you need help then (notice correct use of word) PM me plz.

-Possu

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:51 PM
TurboPorsas wrote:
- lol I honestly think this says way more about you
- than me <-notice correct spelling /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
-
- IBTL

Is that the only thing you can come up with?

This is the most standard response ever if you are unable to think of something clever.

So I still feel the same about you and your educational developement. (Or better said, the lack of it)

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:25 PM
"When it is in AUTO it is closed unless the engine needs cooling. When the temperature falls to normal it closes again. That means it might change between closed and 2-settings and that means very low drag. When you set it to CLOSED and let it overheat and then switch it to AUTO-setting the temp may be so high that automatic puts it to OPEN until it cools. That means flying with a high drag even though the setting is the same.. I hope this makes sense to you."

You clearly did not finish reading/understanding my post. Read it again, like the part where I describe how the plane behaves before ever changing the radiator VS how it behaves after I cycle through the setting and return to the "auto/closed" position. Or the part where the engine never overheats to begin with (even though you are getting full speed with no drag) unless you switch the radiator setting. Also note that even the lowest setting (2) produces quite a bit of drag.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:05 PM
The engine will overheat on the default radiator setting if you take the engine off of auto-pitch control, or if you run it for a long time with WEP and boost.

Auto-pitch keeps the RPMs down, preventing the engine from overheating easily. Just put it on 100% pitch, start climbing and watch how quickly the engine overheats.