PDA

View Full Version : A bit of a question about tactics



sorrowman
01-19-2006, 06:09 AM
Ok, so here's the deal. When I attack a convoy I mostly try to position myself on the side of the convoy with the bow facing directly to the convoy when are at bearing 0.

So what I do is I'll try and launch 4 torp's at various targets (depending on their size) and immediatly dive to say 150m and move at about 3 knts (silent running) underneath the passing convoy.

What I wanna know is this. After the torp's hit their targets escorts will most likely be alarmed and start searching for me. The question is, while I'm passing by underneath the convoy will this make detection by destroyers less likely since all these other ships are passing by making lot's of noise and such. So will the sound of the passing merchants kinda mask the sounds I'm making with my own boat?

I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say here, and some thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Blue_Ninja63
01-19-2006, 06:28 AM
Yes, that's an excellent tactic and works well to prevent you from being detected. I've found that running at slightly deeper than periscope depth (so you don't collide with the ship's hulls above you) you can run at flank speed and maneuver into position for attacks on enemy ships. Use the observation periscope to view where you are going and what hulls are around you and where they are going. If you find that too difficult, then use the camera views to help you.

paulhager
01-19-2006, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by sorrowman:
Ok, so here's the deal. When I attack a convoy I mostly try to position myself on the side of the convoy with the bow facing directly to the convoy when are at bearing 0.

So what I do is I'll try and launch 4 torp's at various targets (depending on their size) and immediatly dive to say 150m and move at about 3 knts (silent running) underneath the passing convoy.

What I wanna know is this. After the torp's hit their targets escorts will most likely be alarmed and start searching for me. The question is, while I'm passing by underneath the convoy will this make detection by destroyers less likely since all these other ships are passing by making lot's of noise and such. So will the sound of the passing merchants kinda mask the sounds I'm making with my own boat?

I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say here, and some thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

My tactics vary with the situation. Sometimes I withdraw by going under the convoy, sometimes I turn away heading at a 45 degree angle off the course (that can be either in the same or opposite direction to the convoy's course). In an attack I did last night, I actually made my escape by crossing in front of the convoy. It all depends on where the escorts are.

Correct use of decoys is very important. Best is to release at 40-50 meters BETWEEN your boat and the approaching escort, while continuing your dive. NEVER put yourself between the decoy and the escort if you can help it.

rm_1944
01-19-2006, 08:39 AM
My favorite tactic, being an old virtual FW-190 pilot is to head on (HO) convoys.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sometimes you have to take what positon you get but I prefer to infiltrate from 12 o'clock at about a depth of 35m. Day or night, I prefer to attack submerged at all times.
This has two advantages IMO. It provides the enemy lead escort with the lowest possible target profile for your u-boat and if you navigate right for the middle row of the convoy when you make the turn to go perpindicular for your attack you get a bigger target selection than if you just attack from the flank.
IOW, once in between the lead escort(s) go to periscope depth and verify the targets.
e.g. If there are tankers on the right turn right. If there's an Armed Merchant Cruiser on the left turn left. All turns are made at slow speed, trying to stay as much in the middle of the convoy as possible which allows you to attack with both sets of tubes.
Then launch all fish as close time-wise together as possible, turn on the same course as the convoy, go to 50m depth at flank speed and reload. Most times the engine noise from the convoy will help cover your boat's noise. If I'm pinged I run like hell in whatever direction is convinient! Otherwise, let your guys reload all the tubes then go back to periscope depth and rinse wash repeat the process.

paulhager
01-19-2006, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by rm_1944:
My favorite tactic, being an old virtual FW-190 pilot is to head on (HO) convoys.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sometimes you have to take what positon you get but I prefer to infiltrate from 12 o'clock at about a depth of 35m. Day or night, I prefer to attack submerged at all times.
This has two advantages IMO. It provides the enemy lead escort with the lowest possible target profile for your u-boat and if you navigate right for the middle row of the convoy when you make the turn to go perpindicular for your attack you get a bigger target selection than if you just attack from the flank.
IOW, once in between the lead escort(s) go to periscope depth and verify the targets.
e.g. If there are tankers on the right turn right. If there's an Armed Merchant Cruiser on the left turn left. All turns are made at slow speed, trying to stay as much in the middle of the convoy as possible which allows you to attack with both sets of tubes.
Then launch all fish as close time-wise together as possible, turn on the same course as the convoy, go to 50m depth at flank speed and reload. Most times the engine noise from the convoy will help cover your boat's noise. If I'm pinged I run like hell in whatever direction is convinient! Otherwise, let your guys reload all the tubes then go back to periscope depth and rinse wash repeat the process.

As far as the approach is concerned, I used a variant of what you describe when I'm running a Type XXI (see the 15 January entry for Altmeier Part 11 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/3201061573) for a description). I still come in from the side at 90 degrees though because the targeting is easier.

Generally, I try to stay out of the middle of the convoy because (1) it's too close to targets - sometimes the torps won't arm, (2) it's easy to screw up and get rammed by a merchant, (3) it's too easy to get caught by an escort. I WILL go into the middle of a convoy in a storm if I'm convinced I can't wait the storm out. However, once I have active sonar, I prefer to get inside the screen and make a sonar-only attack.

HW3
01-19-2006, 11:02 AM
I use a variant of rm_1944's method. I come in from the front at a slight angle which allows me to avoid the front escort. This gives me access to the middle of the convoy where the best targets are located. I then pick out my targets, get into firing position, fire all my tubes, dive deep, and slip out the back of the convoy. By doing it this way, I rarely get DC'ed because the escorts usually have no clue where I am and don't find me. Once they give up and move on, I allow a couple of hours to go by and then finish off any cripples left behind.

paulhager
01-19-2006, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by HW3:
I use a variant of rm_1944's method. I come in from the front at a slight angle which allows me to avoid the front escort. This gives me access to the middle of the convoy where the best targets are located. I then pick out my targets, get into firing position, fire all my tubes, dive deep, and slip out the back of the convoy. By doing it this way, I rarely get DC'ed because the escorts usually have no clue where I am and don't find me. Once they give up and move on, I allow a couple of hours to go by and then finish off any cripples left behind.

Yes, this is not a bad approach, though I like to use FaT's and fire from outside the screen if possible. Effective use of a FaT requires being 90 degrees (or close) to the path of the convoy.

As I noted in my discussion on the Murmansk attacks, those convoys travel at 12 knots so if the FaT misses AND is traveling at 30 knots, it will be going too slow to get a delayed hit on the same target. However, there is a good chance it will hit the trailing ship. Since the Murmansk convoys tend to have T3's and C3's in the same column, FaT's still work pretty well.

maxpower2
01-19-2006, 12:24 PM
i approach head on. dive to 150 at 3knts.

when the escort has passed i begin a 180 course change adn come up to pd. i should be near the middle row.

havoc then ensues.

sorrowman
01-20-2006, 04:57 AM
Good to hear abot al u peoples tactics and, but it only answers half of my question.

Given the tactic I prefer to use (as I discribed earlier on in this topic, although they may differ depending on the situation naturally) I was wondering wether SH3 was programmed in such a way that my tactic actually works the way I think it does. This effectively means, after I fired my torp's and sneek away underneath the convoy, will the sounds of the passing convoy mask the sound of my boat passing by make detection by destroyers less likely? Does SH3 effectively take this into account?

paulhager
01-20-2006, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by sorrowman:
Good to hear abot al u peoples tactics and, but it only answers half of my question.

Given the tactic I prefer to use (as I discribed earlier on in this topic, although they may differ depending on the situation naturally) I was wondering wether SH3 was programmed in such a way that my tactic actually works the way I think it does. This effectively means, after I fired my torp's and sneek away underneath the convoy, will the sounds of the passing convoy mask the sound of my boat passing by make detection by destroyers less likely? Does SH3 effectively take this into account?

I think it does. But, even if there isn't a masking effect, the presence of the merchants can cause the escort to stop or reverse course in order to avoid collision. This alone could be sufficient to allow you to escape. However, you need to be cognizant of what the escort or escorts trailing the convoy are doing. They might detect you when you emerge from underneath.

CRSutton
01-20-2006, 10:31 AM
The answer is yes, the noise of other ships will diminsh the chance of you being detected. However, if already detected or recently detected, it is easier for escorts to lock back onto you as they pretty much know where to look. Escorts themselves will lose contact as they make a run on you. The cavitation of the props and ship's hull from a high speed run will drown out the ability of their sonar to find you. That is why you are in more danger if there are more escorts. Once can search while the other drops DCs on your butt...

vietvet1950
02-09-2006, 10:48 PM
Given the choice, I'm a submerged head-on guy also. The escorts are usually not close, once you get past the lead escort; the "fat" targets are usually in the middle of the convoy; the convoy's screws help to mask you; you can use all of your tubes fairly quickly; but as already stated, you need to stay aware of all of the ships around you or else your 100K patrol can end with you getting rammed by an unsuspecting merchant.

vanjast
02-09-2006, 11:05 PM
Historically what the escorts used to do, when the convoy is attacked, is travel down the line of the torpedo track (if you have used gas propelled torps). I think this is modelled in the game.

So if you stay on your original course, and are to far away from the convoy, they'd probably pick you up. If you're far away from the convoy, get off the 'line', otherwise if close enough you CAN hide yourself under the convoy.

If your firing electrics, the escorts have a move difficult time locating the your attack position, which gives you more time to get away.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif