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View Full Version : Spins and stalls, a bit lame in 401? (UPDATED)



F19_Ob
06-16-2005, 05:18 PM
Now updated with spinrecovery test on some planes.
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Hello lads.

This is just an observation. I have no idea if the stalls or spins are correct or not.
I switched between patch 304 and 401 to be sure that I didn't remeber wrong.

Tried to figure out why most planes in 401 are so easy to fly in dogfights.
I dont feel they have changed the turningability (speaking generally about all planes) but the stalls and spins seem much gentler and easier to recover from.
One doesen't need to be careful in the planes that had vicius snapstalls before the patch.
In situations where it was likely to spin in 304 planes now make a couple of spinning motions but immediatly come out of it just by rolling or ruddering in the other direction.
The fully developed spins also feel quite easy to recover although I haven't tested all planes.

I think this may be why for example the p38 is better now. It could make almost as good turns in 304 but then it had a snappy stall and spin if one wasn't careful, no risk of that now.
The same goes for P40, p39 and spits and p51d wich were quite dangerous in really slow speeds if one altered directions quickly.
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Spinrecovery test from 3000m

The p39 N1 had the hardest spin of the ones I tested and several times it was unrecoverable from 3000m.

P51D doesn't need any recovery more than tyhrottling down and sometimes just releasing the stick.
P40 wich had a hard recovery in 3.04 now are easy to recover and sometimes just throttling down is enough.

P39N1 hardest to recover from.
P51D no recovery needed, just throttle down.
P40- easy
P47- easy
spits- easy
Hurricane- easy
Yak1b -medium or hard.
yak7b -medium or hard
B-239 - easy
109e easy- medium
109G6 easy- easy medium
fw190 A5 - easy-medium
Ju87- medium
Fiats -easy
I.A.R. 81a medium-hard
p38j - easy
I-16 easy
IL-2 no recovery needed
LaGG3 medium-hard
La5 -easy-medium
mig3 -easy
F4F-3 - easy
corsairMK1 - easy
A20 - easy
Zeros- easy-medium
Ki43- esy
Ki61 -easy
Ki84-la Medium-hard



What do U guys think?

Tvrdi
06-16-2005, 05:26 PM
read my post about 4.01....

LEXX_Luthor
06-16-2005, 05:45 PM
You don't always enter a fatal stall or spin, usually its when you do something wrong and the spin goes bad and hard to get out of.

F19_Ob
06-16-2005, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
You don't always enter a fatal stall or spin, usually its when you do something wrong and the spin goes bad and hard to get out of.

Yes I know m8, Thats why I made crazy pulls on the stick and as soon as I came out of the spin I pulled hard again and really let it spin as much as possible before attempting recovery.

Note that I dont say it's wrong.
This seems, to me atleast, be the main reason for the improvement in performance on the planes that were more difficult before ( in 3.04).

darkhorizon11
06-16-2005, 06:04 PM
They were before, I think the new flight models have improved on that a little bit.

Call_me_Kanno
06-16-2005, 07:04 PM
Love your torque, embrace your torque, caress your torque. It can be your best friend. This is what is helping with spin recovery.

Make your torque work for you. You need to roll right quickly? Chop throttle plus roll and when your torque unloads it is a beautiful thing.

Jumoschwanz
06-16-2005, 09:17 PM
I went on a dogfight server the first night 4.01 was out. It had a full plane set. I flew the 109E against a bunch of Spit9s, La7s and F4u-1cs., so mostly I did a bunch of defensive flying.....

Anyway, about a dozen guys lost it and spun or stalled into the ground trying to shoot me, so they must have been having some problem with the new FM.

I don't have any problems with the 4.01 FM, but this is about the fifteenth patch I have had to adapt to in the last three or four years so maybe I am numb or something....

S!

Jumoschwanz

KarayaEine
06-16-2005, 09:34 PM
New FM is just perfect for me. I like it the best of all so far.

Johann

ClnlSandersLite
06-16-2005, 10:16 PM
I think that if you stay on the ball and are concious of your slip, stalls are easy. However, if you don't.... That probably why so many crashed/spun out on that df Jumoschwanz.

Codex1971
06-16-2005, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
I went on a dogfight server the first night 4.01 was out. It had a full plane set. I flew the 109E against a bunch of Spit9s, La7s and F4u-1cs., so mostly I did a bunch of defensive flying.....

Anyway, about a dozen guys lost it and spun or stalled into the ground trying to shoot me, so they must have been having some problem with the new FM.

I don't have any problems with the 4.01 FM, but this is about the fifteenth patch I have had to adapt to in the last three or four years so maybe I am numb or something....

S!

Jumoschwanz

I have noticed that too on WarClouds, many red pilots haven't adapted to the fact that they can no longer just yank back on the stick and not stall. Especially Spit pilots, you get them to commit to a hard right turn and they just drop out of the sky in flat spin. I think this is why more blue pilots love the new FMs in 4.01 as we've had to fly conservatively ever since FB came out.

anarchy52
06-17-2005, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by Call_me_Kanno:
Love your torque, embrace your torque, caress your torque. It can be your best friend. This is what is helping with spin recovery.

Make your torque work for you. You need to roll right quickly? Chop throttle plus roll and when your torque unloads it is a beautiful thing.
what torque?
In beta low speed scissors and reversals were hard and required precise flying to keep you from losing control and slamming into the ground.
4.01 "The casual player's edition"

Chuck_Older
06-17-2005, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Call_me_Kanno:
Love your torque, embrace your torque, caress your torque. It can be your best friend. This is what is helping with spin recovery.

Make your torque work for you. You need to roll right quickly? Chop throttle plus roll and when your torque unloads it is a beautiful thing.
what torque?
In beta low speed scissors and reversals were hard and required precise flying to keep you from losing control and slamming into the ground.
4.01 "The casual player's edition" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm sure you'd be happier with another sim that doesn't cater to noobs, idiots, and wannabes.

If you like, I can provide a link to a d/l site for CFS3. Just say the word.

tjaika1910
06-17-2005, 03:24 AM
The point is not to make the FM as hard as possible, but as accurate as possible. I am confident that Oleg has made the best FM so far.

WTE_Ibis
06-17-2005, 03:30 AM
The 190s especially are far less likely to spin
and I like it.

F19_Ob
06-17-2005, 04:25 AM
I updated the first post with a spinrecovery test. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif