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freedspeak
03-29-2005, 12:34 PM
This came as a revolation .. to me anyway. Perhaps it's SOP for some of you.

Anyway, when landing, immediately upon touchdown and throttle back, I raise the flaps from 'landing' to 'take off'. This makes the plane "stick" to the runway and helps eliminate hops. Why didn't I think of this earlier?

freedspeak
03-29-2005, 12:34 PM
This came as a revolation .. to me anyway. Perhaps it's SOP for some of you.

Anyway, when landing, immediately upon touchdown and throttle back, I raise the flaps from 'landing' to 'take off'. This makes the plane "stick" to the runway and helps eliminate hops. Why didn't I think of this earlier?

3.JG51_BigBear
03-29-2005, 12:43 PM
Kind of a strange tip. In real warbirds it was the other way around and it works well in the sim. All through your approach don't use anymore than takeoff flaps. Then when you're on final and you know that you're set to land, drop the landing flaps. Works great for me, it does help to know what the landing speed is on your plane though but a little googling will solve that problem.

Waldo.Pepper
03-29-2005, 12:46 PM
Green down. Blue up.

FoolTrottel
03-29-2005, 12:47 PM
Hi,

Nice you found that one out yourself!

Try raising 'm even further!

The more flaps you set, the more lift the wings will generate..... that you do not need on landing.. well, once you've touched down that is...

Have Fun!

jarink
03-29-2005, 02:07 PM
Another good technique is to pull back on the stick and hold it there once you're slow enough for the tail to come down. Helps keeping the prop out of the dirt when applying the brakes. Do it too soon, though, and you can hop off the runway, stall and crash.

BigBear has the best tip, though. Knowing your plane's landing speed is key to 'greasing it in'.

JG7_Rall
03-29-2005, 02:27 PM
Yep, good tip. It's cool when people figure this stuff out on their own...shows you're really thinking about the game and how flying really works. Not sure if you're new or not, but if you are, keep it up, you'll be a great pilot someday

mortoma
03-29-2005, 06:56 PM
If people were landing at the proper speeds then they would not need to do unrealistic stuff like that. I always land full flap ( in most planes and circumstances ) and I never have any trouble with planes bouncing back up.
But being a real pilot might be what helps me out there. But it sounds to me like you are approaching, flaring and touching down at way too high of a speed if flap retraction is "helping" you so much. Most of my landing are at so slow of a speed I tree point or nearly three point.

mortoma
03-29-2005, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
Yep, good tip. It's cool when people figure this stuff out on their own...shows you're really thinking about the game and how flying really works. Not sure if you're new or not, but if you are, keep it up, you'll be a great pilot someday <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not very good advice if someone wishes to be a good RL pilot. This tactic is not neccesary in the game and very bad in RL. Unless I'm landing in a gusty crosswind ( in RL ) I never retract until taxiing speed. But in that case I usually wouldn't have full flaps down anyway, especially in a Cessna high wing. In a Cherokee type, if the wind is severe and gusty, I may land with no flaps all.

EnGaurde
03-29-2005, 09:02 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

yes its a good idea, keep it up.

and then...

no thats not a good idea, for these reasons.

baah ahahah and just who is right at the end of it all? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Iggy-Snaps
03-29-2005, 09:10 PM
S! In real life raise the flaps after touch down and get the weight of the aircraft on the wheels that will make the aircraft "Stick to the runway". Single Engine Land and Sea Plane Rated


http://www.geocities.com/335th/pirate2.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
03-29-2005, 09:26 PM
Watch the training films for American aircraft. Many of them came from the large film studios and are very well done. I've seen ones for the P-39, P-51, B-25, P-47 and Corsair. In each one of these films the pilot is told to drop his flaps to the landing setting when he's lined up on the runway and "he knows its a sure thing." If you're landing at the right speed you shouldn't need to raise the flaps, you need to lower them. I'm not saying this isn't a bad thing in a video game but in real life, with a real warbird you're going to kill yourself doing this because you'll be causing a rapid change in the wings lift at a very low speed, probably just above a stall.

kutyaxxon
03-29-2005, 09:29 PM
after touchdown set the enginesabout 30% and the elecators not will lose their effectiveness...avoid ditching

aonyn
03-29-2005, 09:32 PM
This technique is not used until the wheels are already on the runway. A full stall is desirable at this point. As was said above, get the weight onto the wheels = better grip on the runway.

mortoma
03-29-2005, 10:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Iggy-Snaps:
S! In real life raise the flaps after touch down and get the weight of the aircraft on the wheels that will make the aircraft "Stick to the runway". Single Engine Land and Sea Plane Rated


http://www.geocities.com/335th/pirate2.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My instructor for PPL was a FAA examiner with 25,000 hours, dating all the way back to Viet Nam, plus he flies helos. And he would have killed me if I retracted flaps early in any of the several different types of planes I flew during the course of my training. I have never flown a plane yet that doing this makes much of a difference to make your plane "stick" better. Once you're down, you should have already stalled onto the runway anyway!! Less than stall speed equates to too slow to fly again, unless the wind gusts and puts the air at a fast enough speed over your wings to get you back above stalling speed. That would be one hell of a gust in most cases.

If anything, leaving the flaps down helps slow you down faster, all the way down to about 30 knots from drag, so you'll shorten your landing distance, which is desireable. You'll never see an airline pilot retract until he is getting ready to turn on the taxiway, or at least not until he's below 40 knots. And there's a reason for that. So I wholeheartedly disagree with this technique unless you're in a high, gusty wind condition. Very bad habit.

mauld
03-30-2005, 01:50 AM
Landing flap produces more drag than lift this helps slow the aircraft down on the runway 'slower aircraft less lift' also less brakeing required and shorter landing run. if you have strong gusts of wind then raising flaps on touchdown is a goog idea.

RAF_Pagan
03-30-2005, 08:07 AM
Well it probably isn't a good idea in RL, but in this sim, it does help with some but not all of planes to get stopped short. We've been spending a lot of time in a custom short and difficult landing strip scenery, and landing non-hook planes on carriers.

It may not be realistic, but raising flats at touchdown dramatically increases braking effectiveness in some of the plane models, probably from decreasing lift, and increasing weight on the wheels, maybe also from reducing bouncing and keeping the wheels on the ground more on a bumpy strip. We are coming in just a hair above stall speed, extreme AOA, and stalling into a three point with full flaps. The flaps come up the instant your wheels touch, or just a split second before.

This doesn't work on all planes, for some it seems to make no difference, others, it's the only way to get stopped on some of our bushpilot strips and carriers.

VF51_Flatspin
03-30-2005, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnGaurde:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

yes its a good idea, keep it up.

and then...

no thats not a good idea, for these reasons.

baah ahahah and just who is right at the end of it all? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, funny the responses in here! I think the bottom line is: If it works for you consistently in this sim, then it's right for you.

Grue_
03-30-2005, 11:26 AM
Yep I discovered the flap thing. The plane calms down a lot quicker for some reason, even if you did a near three point with a wing starting to drop. Especially 109's or spits for obvious reasons.

I think the planes are a bit light on the ground and bounce too much when taxiing etc. Not the end of the world though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TX-EcoDragon
03-30-2005, 12:44 PM
Actually,

flap retraction *after* touchdown is pretty darn common, in particular in adverse conditions such as landing in crosswind conditions, on short, wet, or dirt strips etc. There are a few reasons that many operators use for this. Improved braking performance, decreased lateral displacemnt due to gusts, decreased chance of a gust lifting the aircraft after landing, decreased chance of damage to the flap by debris on unimproved strips, decreased hydroplaning character on wet surfaces, decreased workload in event of a go-around, and I am sure there are more that aren't coming to me off the top of my head.

There are also reasons to *not* do this, in particular for newer pilots. There is a slightly elevated workload in the landing which already has a high workload, there is the potential for inadvertent gear retraction in an aircraft with a retractrable undercarriage if the pilot actuates the wrong lever when attempting to retract flaps.

In the sim there is also a tendency to roll over onto a wingtip when aft elevator is applied once the tail is on the ground as if the ail is still flying and you just stalled. . .flap retraction does reduce this.

mortoma
03-30-2005, 05:15 PM
Correct TX-Ecodragon, but you should be more correct than me because you have far more experience than me in more types and more complex aircraft. So us lower time pilots always have to respect and take a bow to those who are more advanced. You did in fact substantiate most of what I said though, just added a few more reasons to retract in unusual circumstances. But in good calm weather on a dry paved surface, which is when most of us VFRer's fly, then it's not all that common. But I also have personally flown small singles a bunch on short grass strips and even in muddy, wet conditions but I won't bother to retract early unless I have a nasty wind in addition.


I've talked to quite a few big iron pilots ( airline ) and they rarely do it either. Since thier aircraft is so heavy, that it's better in thier case to use the flaps to augment the slowing down of the aircraft along with speed brakes and reverve thrust ( if available ) so they just leave flaps all the way down until the taxi.

mortoma
03-30-2005, 05:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mauld:
Landing flap produces more drag than lift this helps slow the aircraft down on the runway 'slower aircraft less lift' also less brakeing required and shorter landing run. if you have strong gusts of wind then raising flaps on touchdown is a goog idea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well spoken, I agree.

trumper
03-31-2005, 06:59 AM
This sim seems to be over the top with "bouncing" aircraft.It's not really fair to compare real life landings to this sim.I watch the warbirds land on the grass at Duxford regularly and if they bounced on the grass when landing and taxying as they do in this sim there would'nt be many left flying.

Dexmeister
03-31-2005, 10:24 AM
This sim has crosswind landings?

Personally I'm looking forward to the new FM for what it will bring to takeoff and landings. So far I find them a little too easy and too similar regardless of the plane.

TX-EcoDragon
03-31-2005, 06:40 PM
IMHO Dex this is one of the only PC sims to have decent crosswind landings. This is the only sim that actually models the slip (and skid, and knife edge flight while we're on the subject) with enough fidelity to enable a wing low side-slip to a one wheeled touchdown that sorta kinda acts as it should. After touchdown things get strange. . . but the approach, flare, and touchdown itself are pretty good methinks. Of course that is only when the winds are at set to thunderstom level that it gets obvious.

mortoma
03-31-2005, 06:51 PM
Yea I agree TX, once on the ground the sim has a strange feeling, as if the aircraft are on "tippy-toes".
Like they all of a sudden are about half of the weight they should be, plus the weight distribtuion seems to be messed up. But for me though, I still never retract the flaps early on any of the planes and don't have a major bounce problem. But I always am down to a proper landing touchdown speed, one that is likely much slower than some of the other fellows ( or ladies ) who fly Oleg's simulations. For example, I might touch a P-38 down at only about 140Kph as the mains touch pay dirt. Much slower than that and you'll get a tail strike in the P-38!!!

mauld
04-01-2005, 02:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trumper:
This sim seems to be over the top with "bouncing" aircraft.It's not really fair to compare real life landings to this sim.I watch the warbirds land on the grass at Duxford regularly and if they bounced on the grass when landing and taxying as they do in this sim there would'nt be many left flying. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Spitfire was well known for it's bounce on landing and was known as the"Spitfire Bounce"

trumper
04-01-2005, 05:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mauld:


The Spitfire was well known for it's bounce on landing and was known as the"Spitfire Bounce" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, i agree with you on that one,they do bounce once or twice but stay safely "stuck" to the ground but it still seems as if the undercarriage is built on pogo sticks instead of oleo s in this sim.But it is a sim,and a good one at that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif