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View Full Version : Any intel of what the other guys are building to compete against SOW



stugumby
07-30-2008, 05:39 PM
Just curious as to whats on the flight sim horizon, knights of the sky and anything combat coming from miocrosoft???

Just curious as in a fit of stupidity i dumped my bob 2 game and now cant find it anywhere local, and have an old janes game as well but it wont run on xp for some reason, had and dumped mig alley as well.

Is flight simulator x all civil or do the firepower packs merger with them??

M_Gunz
07-30-2008, 06:21 PM
Go check at the BoB forum over at SimHQ and they can fix you up.

You might check out Shockwave for an upcoming title.

M$ dropped the CFS line after Oleg released Forgotten battles, IIRC. The mediocre titles
generated by the M$ paint-by-numbers formula could not compete, Oleg refused to sell out and
a company in Russia with a French publisher is not as easy to tie down and crush as ones like
Ashton-Tate and a slew of others here in the US.

I keep hoping that X-Planes will include weapons and damage models and other details like
ground targets. Maybe when we get 10Gz processors...........

Oh yeah there's also Targetware.
I'm not sure if Aces High and Warbirds have kept upgrading but they may interest you.

Chivas
07-30-2008, 07:51 PM
Their arn't many worth mentioning. No reports of a CFS4 surfacing. Shockwaves Flying Tigers has been cancelled. They may have another sim on the go, but I'm not sure they have enough of handle on the Merlin engine to compete. I hope they make some sort of break thru on the Merlin engine because we need more competion. Studio 777 is apparently going to release some info on a new combat flight sim, but its also using the Merlin engine.

If you have a console...Birds of Prey IL-2 Sturmovik..is coming out sometime in 2009, it looks very interesting.

dirkpit7
07-31-2008, 03:18 PM
You might check out Shockwave for an upcoming title.

They are now called Air to air simulations (or a2asimulations).

Chris0382
07-31-2008, 03:43 PM
We have something special here with the IL-2 community. Its a special game made by people who had more than just money as an interest; These are a special group of people who have made something great for all of us. You can't get that anyplace these days. The programmers put their hearts into IL-2 and a game thats over 5 yrs old and still heavily played is the result.

dwagener
07-31-2008, 04:03 PM
I don't think there's much competition, it's a fairly small specialized niche market. There aren't millions of WWII flight sim afficianados waiting to buy a new game. IL2 1946 is light years ahead of the MS products, and it's pretty hard to beat as it is.

I'm looking forward to BOB-SOW, being born just after WWII in the UK and growing up drawing Spits, Hurris, Me109s & Heinkels in the margins of my school books.

Now I can fly 'em again & again!

stalkervision
07-31-2008, 04:11 PM
"project X" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
07-31-2008, 04:16 PM
Their projects are even better kept secret than Oleg's BoB, but for some reason everybody cries out for Oleg to drop his pants, while they largely ignore the fact, that any information will also be visible to his competitors.

Well, anyway.

There are several simulations being worked on.

It was confirmed in an interview around christmas 07, that M$ is working on a CFS based on FSX technology. Shockwave (a2asimulations) dropped the plans to release a sequel to The Mighty Eighth B17 II with true multiplayer-capability, but they were recruiting for another project based on the FlyingTigers.
There is also another rumor spreading, that there is WW2 sim being developed by another team, nobody knows. But that's just rumors, nothing substantial IMHO.

Eagle Dynamics, the team who made LockOn are currently working on a new series (DCS-DigitalCombatSimulations), modeling ultra-realistic modern equipment, starting with the KA-50 BlackShark-Helo. An A-10A, AH-64A Apache, Mi24 Hind and F16 (presumably modern Block52) are in the pipeline, too.

Well and then we have all the projects connected to the StormOfWar-Engine, which will be BattleOfBritain from Olegs team, Knights of the Sky from GT and the Korea-Part by Ilya Shevchenko's Team.

Not bad for a niche genre, if you ask me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Chivas
07-31-2008, 04:32 PM
Flying Tigers was cancelled and KOTS was going to use the IL-2 engine, but they needed something more advanced so they are building their own engine. It has nothing to do with the SOW engine.

LEXX_Luthor
07-31-2008, 07:48 PM
Also, there is Fighterops Forever, but that's a disaster in the making: Online F-16 vs F-16 again, although with supa-high polygons to ease the pain. I saw on the forums the devs say that eventually, years from now, "Red" aircraft may be made flyable at reduced fidelity.

The FO pricing is a good idea however. I find it interesting that PC games have not increased in Ussian dollar price for ten years, while CPI price inflation runs at maybe 3%, and real price inflation about 10%.

LEXX_Luthor
07-31-2008, 08:35 PM
Another potential competition to SoW Forever is TargetWare Forever, a very highly organized open modded sim. I'm thinking the great number of theaters covered is a community alternative to the eternal wait for the finished 1.0 product.

http://www.targetware.net/

zardozid
07-31-2008, 08:49 PM
Sense we are moving backwards why don't we look at "Aces High" and "WarBirds"... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.totalsims.com/screenshots/images/large/04.jpg
http://www.totalsims.com/screenshots/images/large/02.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
07-31-2008, 09:30 PM
Fighterops. Well this is fascinating, and a fundamental advance for all The Sims...


Dev Diary 17:
Buckshot:

We have adopted the spherical representation of terrain in Fighter Ops. This method allows us to seamlessly simulate very long distance, high altitude and even orbital trajectories with ease and provides us with accurate, consistent terrain globally.

~ http://www.fighterops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6895&highlight=weather
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/Clap.gif

To get a 6000km (kinda) size map in the 2D StrikeFighter's terrain engine, I had to cut and paste smaller maps. It works well enough for the level of air war simulation programmed into the sim, even if you take off from Thule and fly south to the Soviet Union. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Siberian%20Sky%20Grafix/000.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
07-31-2008, 09:55 PM
Another is Jet Thunder, about the Falklands War down yonder. Seems like a good one, but they are making the standard mistake of shoehorning themselves between the customer and the customer's game with dirty smeared canopy "glass," and like the LOCKON folks, are tempted to get into helicoptors in the future. Jet Thunder would seem far better as a starting point to work backwards into crapp jets of the 1960s and then 1950s.

At one time, the Wall Street Journal had a short editorial about how to pick up business ideas by watching people on the street, and the little things they wear or do. Maybe The Sims developers might notice that people on the street no longer wear digital watches, but went back to analog watches after the false fad of digital watches wore out. This is a hint that people would prefer a well designed classical old jetsim instead of the standard all-digital superHUDjets looking the same made by the post Cold War Grumman/MiG/GeneralDynamics/Sukhoi corporate merger.

http://www.thunder-works.com/

BWaltteri
08-01-2008, 07:43 AM
Whatever microsoft is doing, it probably is just some yankee macho-bs with stealth fighters and other supercyberjunk-hype. I wish somebody did a good Vietnam game with all the more rare planes modelled, like F-104 and F-5 and helicopters, and hippies who want to get you out from the war.

DanteJT
08-01-2008, 08:39 AM
Another is Jet Thunder, about the Falklands War down yonder. Seems like a good one, but they are making the standard mistake of shoehorning themselves between the customer and the customer's game with dirty smeared canopy glass


heh OK i will cleanup that canopy glass lol. Getting enough complains about that - the truth is that the argentinean customers want us to simulate ocean salt getting into canopy struts specially where canopy iron and glass/plexyglass as this was a fact of their attack profile down low 5 meters over the Atlantic Ocean waves.

The helicopters, we first need to finish and ship the game with the more important jets. Its also a customers request - Lynx, Chinook, Puma, Gazelle, Wasp, Agusta A109, Huey ... all the cool copters were extensively used in the Falklands war, so it will be too much to miss.

stathem
08-01-2008, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the update Dante, and the very best of luck with JetThunder.

It will most likely be the very first Jet sim I'll ever try. Really looking forward to it.

DanteJT
08-01-2008, 02:01 PM
stathem: thank you for your kind words.

And by the way, JetThunder will feature a prop plane - the IA-58 Pucarß - with 2x 20mm Hispano cannons and 4x 7,62mm machine guns - in air-to-air role they have one confirmed gun kill against a Westland Scout helicopter during the conflict, and in Sharkey Ward┬┤s Sea Harrier book one of the most exciting parts is where he describe his flight of 3x SeaHarriers trying to dogfight a lone and very tough Pucara.

So, I hope that in a single package we┬┤ll have something to please prop fans and jet fans as well.

Urufu_Shinjiro
08-01-2008, 03:09 PM
Dante, I want to ask a slightly OT question. As someone working on a new fighter sim (even if completely different era) whats the feeling towards SoW:BoB? Is it intimidating, do you try to anticipate some of Olegs moves, or is it something you can't think about or doesn't concern you guys at all? I know how we the consumer feel about SoW, just kinda curious as to what the effect is on the devs of potentially competing products.

DanteJT
08-02-2008, 08:07 AM
Urufu_Shinjiro, since there's so few combat flight sim developers remaining out there, and as you said we're about completely different era, we think that there's room for all these devs in the market without concern against each other - this market has consumers, as we see from the forums, it is actually lacking more products! (hardcore flightsims)

joeap
08-02-2008, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by DanteJT:
Urufu_Shinjiro, since there's so few combat flight sim developers remaining out there, and as you said we're about completely different era, we think that there's room for all these devs in the market without concern against each other - this market has consumers, as we see from the forums, it is actually lacking more products! (hardcore flightsims)

"I approve of this post"

Well said and glad to see you guys stepping in.

mean_mango
08-02-2008, 10:02 AM
Good question, Urufu_Shinjiro. I hope most developers are aligned with Dante's attitude: being focused on producing a great sim without getting preoccupied with competition paranoia.

Frankly, if Jet Thunder, Storm of War, and Knights of the Sky were all released together, I would pay full price for each of them the same day! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif (and might just die of pleasure!) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Covering different eras just makes them all part of a great collection.

Friendly_flyer
08-02-2008, 11:45 AM
Hmmm, the Pucara sound interesting! It seems to me some ground attack missions with that bird will be reason enough to have a look at this game.

Thanks for the head up, Dante!

K_Freddie
08-02-2008, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
..Oleg refused to sell out and
a company in Russia with a French publisher is not as easy to tie down and crush as ones like
Ashton-Tate and a slew of others here in the US.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
"Viva le France, comrade', well at least there are people that don't take cr.p from you know who, and stand their ground. Without this we'd have vastly inferior games.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-02-2008, 05:01 PM
Dante, thanks for sharing with us. Flyable Mirage III out-of-box will be a flight sim first.

Dante::
heh OK i will cleanup that canopy glass lol. Getting enough complains about that - the truth is that the argentinean customers want us to simulate ocean salt getting into canopy struts specially where canopy iron and glass/plexyglass as this was a fact of their attack profile down low 5 meters over the Atlantic Ocean waves.
Make it all optional. You never know if your sim will take off beyond your expectations, and the (actual, paying) customers fly A-4s in dry non-sea arctic or desert or wherever else.

There are no Argentine customers. When you do have Argentine customers, may they far outnumber the very few "hardcore" who are communicating with you today.

Don't give simmers what they "want," because they only know what they have seen in older sims. Give them what they will love. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif That takes independent thinking, stuff never done before. Mirage III is a good example.

mscott83
08-09-2008, 01:48 PM
It was confirmed in an interview around christmas 07, that M$ is working on a CFS based on FSX technology.

Do you have a link for this? I've heard rumblings of it, but nothing firsthand. CFS2 was one of my guilty pleasures, I adored that game. CFS3 was a huge disappointment but I'm hoping Microsoft can do better with another crack at it.

tagTaken2
08-09-2008, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by BWaltteri:
Whatever microsoft is doing, it probably is just some yankee macho-bs with stealth fighters and other supercyberjunk-hype. I wish somebody did a good Vietnam game with all the more rare planes modelled, like F-104 and F-5 and helicopters, and hippies who want to get you out from the war.

There's always Wings over Vietnam http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif, but I'm not sure if you're mocking it.

Bad if you're hardcore, quite fun if you're a bit more relaxed. The yankee air pirate missions and objects make a big difference.

Good to hear from the jet thunder devs, I'm looking forward to ship attacks.

And for whoever said that they'd pay full price for everything on the same day, same here. More worried that I'd die of confusion over which to install first http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

mortoma
08-09-2008, 09:33 PM
I don't want to sound pessimistic but I am not thinking we'll see ever SOW come out at all. I don't know what's up but it can't be good. Just in case I'm coming to terms with the possibility for SOW's cancellation.

general_kalle
08-11-2008, 08:28 AM
if SOW gets cancelled it will open the market for others and i bet somebody else is gonna start making a flight sim when they see a chance there.

Feathered_IV
08-11-2008, 09:08 AM
KotS is our best hope at the moment. Video footage shows their alpha version is going strong. Fingers crossed for that one. SoW is nowhere, despite the protestations of the last few hopefuls with their ageing blue-screen wip's and vague Q&A sessions at the banana lounge. Such a shame to see time and money slipping away from Oleg so badly. I'd so much love to see him succeed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

crucislancer
08-11-2008, 10:28 AM
It could very well be that there isn't anything new to report on SoW. I really hope that it still comes out, and until I hear different from Oleg or part of his development team, I'll consider it a work in progress.

I've been looking forward to Jet Thunder for some time, just the chance to fly a Harrier sold me.

I'm really curious as to what 777 Studios is cooking up.