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MB_Avro_UK
04-04-2007, 02:06 PM
Hi all,

My vote would be for the US Astronauts involved in the first Moon landing in 1969.

No flight computers as today and they landed on the Moon by 'the seat of their pants'. No chance of rescue and a parachute would have been of no use due to the laws of physics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Their mission was a total unknown.

I was also impressed by the crew of Apollo 13 and their use of cross-hairs for re-entry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Were madals awarded?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

MB_Avro_UK
04-04-2007, 02:06 PM
Hi all,

My vote would be for the US Astronauts involved in the first Moon landing in 1969.

No flight computers as today and they landed on the Moon by 'the seat of their pants'. No chance of rescue and a parachute would have been of no use due to the laws of physics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Their mission was a total unknown.

I was also impressed by the crew of Apollo 13 and their use of cross-hairs for re-entry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Were madals awarded?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

p-11.cAce
04-04-2007, 02:14 PM
Charles A. Lindbergh - hands down brass ones afaic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Take off into IFR in an overloaded, unstable aircraft with no fwd view, fly across a fricking ocean by compass heading and stop-watch (in IFR, night, and icing conditions) with 0% chance of ever being found if anything goes wrong, and then land (at night!) at an airfield you've never even seen in a country you've never been too.

Just for kicks go into the fmb and load up a p-11, set the weather to its worst, time to 1 a.m., take off and climb into the clouds and try to fly from an airfield on one side of the map to one on the other side of the map without reference to the ingame map. Ok now do it for 27 1/2 hours http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Spectre1968
04-04-2007, 02:22 PM
Any Pilot(or crew member for that matter) who still stepped up and flew combat mission after combat mission ,whilst seeing friends and colleage shot down in flames, blow up, or brought back in bits.

The Astonauts although brave is a different sort of courage going off into the great unknown the men who fought in the skies over europe and the pacific knew what they were in for.IMO

Asgeir_Strips
04-04-2007, 02:24 PM
I think i have to go with the first luner landing as well.

Lindberghs atlantic crossing was amazing as you described p-11.cAce
but imo the First lunar landing is a whole other ballgame, or any other lunar landing for that matter. It required, the best pilots and engineers in the world to complete.. just amazing really

ploughman
04-04-2007, 02:31 PM
Apollo, in it's entirety it was too insane, but each individual aspect, well they thought that might just be do-able. 'If we can just get off the pad we can get into orbit and if we can get into orbit we can...etc," until "...and then if the chutes work and the floats deploy and we haven't landed on magma it's mission over. Then it just becomes search and rescue."

And they got them all back. Audacious on every level, makes me proud to be human, how an American must feel about it? Huge balls.

AKA_TAGERT
04-04-2007, 02:32 PM
me

WWSpinDry
04-04-2007, 02:37 PM
Anyone who dares fly against me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Seriously, I find it hard to distinguish: I'd say literally everyone who's ever knowingly flown into combat--and that doesn't mean just the pilots.

slipBall
04-04-2007, 02:41 PM
Those early test pilot's were either crazy brave, or just plain crazy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Rattler68
04-04-2007, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
Those early test pilot's were either crazy brave, or just plain crazy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I like this one too. The early test pilots had no idea what the safety margins were for their crates. They identified the safety margins! Have a look at "The Right Stuff" to get an idea. Crazy bastards!

Waldo.Pepper
04-04-2007, 02:58 PM
Special attacker units. (We know them erroneously as Kamikaze).

p-11.cAce
04-04-2007, 03:00 PM
I agree those are all deserving - but man Lindbergh was out there ALONE - no radio, no crew mates...alone in the dark over a black ocean - just as lethal as anything Apollo involved and in many ways even worse. Lose control while landing on the moon or lose control over the dark ocean - you are just as dead and out of reach. When things went bad on Apollo 13 there were literally thousands of engineers and back up staff working things out and talking them through it. When it all went right you could sleep, eat, and live in a climate controlled environment - tracked by multiple tracking stations and certain of your location within fractions of an inch.

Test pilots have support crews, escape equipment (granted not always successful) and if it all goes wrong medical staff, hospitals, and chase aircraft to get them to safety. They are fully briefed on the test, what to basically expect, and are headed over to Panchos afterward for beer and girls http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ploughman
04-04-2007, 03:08 PM
Reminds me of, was it Collins? The CM pilot on Apollo II. When he went around the dark side of the moon after the Eagle had set down he ruminated that no human being had ever been as alone as he was during those moments.

I've always wondered if he maybe had a wank.

Bremspropeller
04-04-2007, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Have a look at "The Right Stuff" to get an idea </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yeah, like:

"The first time I saw the sound-barrier, it was already broken!"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

leitmotiv
04-04-2007, 03:18 PM
As the WWI fliers knew, the bravest bastards were the ones who were scared to death, but were there every day with the others, doing their bit.

WskyStr8
04-04-2007, 04:12 PM
I think any combat pilot is incredibly brave but the bravest pilots ever, without doubt, would be the 'Dustoff' chopper pilots. To sit at the hover exposed to fire while winching wounded soldiers aboard or landing on a hot LZ to extract wounded takes a different kind of courage.

Bremspropeller
04-04-2007, 04:16 PM
Combat-SAR +1 on par with "Wild Weasel"-guys

MB_Avro_UK
04-04-2007, 04:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Combat-SAR +1 on par with "Wild Weasel"-guys </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Brems,

What is 'Wild Weasel' please?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Monty_Thrud
04-04-2007, 04:26 PM
And what about those chaps who would land their Plane near front lines to rescue their fellow Pilots...very brave and selfless attitude

There was also a Hurricane Pilot, who was about to bail out when his plane was shot up and burning and out of ammo, he saw a He111 got back in and rammed the fekker...huge cast iron balls.

...all heroes... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Haigotron
04-04-2007, 04:32 PM
I didn't read what the others have written, but I believe each and every one of them was the bravest.

M2morris
04-04-2007, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WskyStr8:
I think any combat pilot is incredibly brave but the bravest pilots ever, without doubt, would be the 'Dustoff' chopper pilots. To sit at the hover exposed to fire while winching wounded soldiers aboard or landing on a hot LZ to extract wounded takes a different kind of courage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here is an excellent book on that subject, some really amazing stories.
http://www.amazon.com/Chickenhawk-Robert-Mason/dp/0143035711

K_Freddie
04-04-2007, 04:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
..in the first Moon landing in 1969. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Talking about this, I'd love to see the Hubble photos of the moon, especialy of the moonbuggy left behind on the one mission. Imagine we should be able to get the foot prints/flags as well on a great zoom photo... Way to go for the Hubble http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bremspropeller
04-04-2007, 04:41 PM
"Wild Weasel" is a term that rose during the Vietnam War. Vietnam was the first war that saw grand use of so-called "SAMs" (Surface to Air Missiles) and radar-guided AAA.

The guys that delt with those threats and attacked SAM batteries or radar-sites called themselves "Wild Weasels". At first those strikes were carried out rather rudimentarily by dropping cluster-bombs or napalm onto SAM-sites. However, those attacks were too dangerous for both aircrews and aircraft. Consequently, special WW units were established.
They specialized on destroying the radars, rendering the SAMs blind and making them easier to attack. Anti-radar missiles of importance were AGM-45A/B 'Shrike' (B versions having a smoke cartridge that visually marked the target after the impact) and AGM-78 'Standad' (derived from the US navy's "Standard" missile).

First they were equipped with F-100Fs, later with F-105F and Gs. Among different F-4 versions ( of minor importance were EF-4C and EF-4B) was the F-4G.

Several Fighter Wings took on the new task of hunting SAMs and their radars.
F-4Gs flew at Misawa (Tailcode WW for "Wild Weasel"), Spangdahlem (SP) and among the Idaho ANG for example.
In the mid nineties, the F-4G was replaced by F-16C/D Block 50/52 (IIRC that was Blk 50/52D onwards).

Within the RAF and the Luftwaffe, Tornados fly as Wild Weasels. Germany evan has a special Tornado version, called "ECR" (Electronic Combat and Reconnaissance). Italy just purchased additional ECRs quite similar to those flying in Germany.
AFAIK within the RAF plain vanilla GR.4 a/c are tasked with SAM supression.

The Anti-radar missiles used today are the AGM-88 "HARM" (High speed Anti Radiation Missile) or the british ALARM for example.

M2morris
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
..in the first Moon landing in 1969. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Talking about this, I'd love to see the Hubble photos of the moon, especialy of the moonbuggy left behind on the one mission. Imagine we should be able to get the foot prints/flags as well on a great zoom photo... Way to go for the Hubble http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It is impossible for the Hubble get photos of the man-made stuff on the moon, it just does not have the ability. Too bad.

K_Freddie
04-04-2007, 04:44 PM
And back to pilots...
I think we're all brave, everytime we step into an a/c, there's no way of knowing whether we'll return. The odds are less for the aircrew in wartime. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

K_Freddie
04-04-2007, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M2morris:
It is impossible for the Hubble get photos of the man-made stuff on the moon, it just does not have the ability. Too bad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'Nothing is impossible' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

K_Freddie
04-04-2007, 04:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
"Wild Weasel" is a term that rose during the Vietnam War. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
AFAIK it arose during WW2 'Wilde Sauer', or something to that effect. I'll look it up.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bremspropeller
04-04-2007, 04:51 PM
No, "Wilde Sau" (wild sow) were those guys that went after RAF bombers at night with day-fighters.

M2morris
04-04-2007, 05:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M2morris:
It is impossible for the Hubble get photos of the man-made stuff on the moon, it just does not have the ability. Too bad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'Nothing is impossible' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Way to think positive. I really wish they would get some pics of that stuff on the surface. I believe there would be six LEM descent engine/landing sections, plus one or two LEM ascent modules(smashed to nothing in craters), they were jetisoned after transfer to the CSM in orbit and sent to the surface to test a sizemograph, maybe three moon buggies, an endless assortment of scientific equpiment, and six really faded American Flags.

Blottogg
04-04-2007, 05:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Several Fighter Wings took on the new task of hunting SAMs and their radars.
F-4Gs flew at Misawa (Tailcode WW for "Wild Weasel"), Spangdahlem (SP) and among the Idaho ANG for example.
In the mid nineties, the F-4G was replaced by F-16C/D Block 50/52 (IIRC that was Blk 50/52D onwards). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The WW tailcode was actually for the F-4G's at George AFB in California. When that base shut down, the Wing Commander at Misawa (himself a former George F-4G guy) grabbed it for his new command at Misawa. After years of our weapons guys drilling into our heads "The F-16 is NOT a replacement for the F-4G...it lacks the G's capabilities", the new wing king wiped out all of that common sense in one action, because he thought the WW tail code was cool. Not that I have an opinion about that.

As for bravest, all of the suggestions are good. I'll offer one more. Bomber pilots. Apply revisionist history all you want to label them murderers, but they did the best they could with the weapons available to help win the war. They were opposed by flak and fighters, and knew they had to sit there and take it. Fighter guys could at least dodge, or chase the guys trying to kill them. Astronauts and test pilots also had their fate (for the most part) in their own hands. Bomber crews were told in essence "We're going to beat the hell out of you every mission, and if you flinch, you get to repeat the last beating. You only have to do this 25 (later 35) times, but most of you won't survive that far." Putting yourself in a lethal enviornment while giving up most of your control over that enviornment, and doing it again and again. That was brave. Dust-off and CSAR crews are another example of that type of bravery.

Zeus-cat
04-04-2007, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Any Pilot(or crew member for that matter) who still stepped up and flew combat mission after combat mission ,whilst seeing friends and colleage shot down in flames, blow up, or brought back in bits.

The Astonauts although brave is a different sort of courage going off into the great unknown the men who fought in the skies over europe and the pacific knew what they were in for.IMO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not just your opinion Spectre1968, mine too. Especially the pilots who knew they weren't as good as the enemy, but went up anyway because it was their duty.

wayno7777
04-04-2007, 08:39 PM
All very good choices. I will second the "Dustoff" crew. Another good book on them:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Novosel.jpg
Army 69-15924 "Dustoff 924" The bird I crewed in the late '70's at Ft. Sill, OK....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/Army_69-15924.jpg

AVG_WarHawk
04-04-2007, 10:01 PM
A lot of brave piloting examples have been mentioned in this topic. One that often strikes me as brave is taking off from a moving carrier, flying many miles to fight the enemy over open ocean with no landmarks. And if you survive the battle, attempting to navigate back to that moving vessel and land. I'm sure alot of them never found their moving air strip.

Friendly_flyer
04-05-2007, 01:13 AM
I have done a bit of study of the Apollo missions, and those guys deserve all the credit they got and more, and I think it's nice to see a non-combat mission mentioned for bravery!

I'd like to ad another candidate to the list though: Sgt. Ray Holms, who being out of ammo rammed a Dornier 117 he thought was heading for the Buckingham palace during the Battle of Britain. He himself never made much of it, which to me is a mark of bravery.

http://www.aviartnutkins.com/images/battle/large/BB11-Battle-over-London-Hurricane-Do17.jpg

dieg777
04-05-2007, 03:18 AM
I agree with those listed and would also like to add the pilots who flew in defence of malta as well. Starting with gladiators and then hurricanes they took off from exposed fields to intercept the italian and german raids with inferior machines and numbers. the distance between the airforces was so small they had to head out in the opposite direction to gain height. they lacked spares, food and medicine and were reliant on convoys for resupply, never knowing when the next would get through, but battled on.

F19_Olli72
04-05-2007, 05:14 AM
http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/aero/tunnel/graphics/birdy.jpg

Guys that took off in 'machines' like this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Of course, the line between bravery and stupidity is sometimes so thin you cant see it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Breeze147
04-05-2007, 07:39 AM
"Jolly Green" crews who flew into North Vietnam to pull out downed pilots.

GIAP.Shura
04-05-2007, 08:49 AM
Those pilots who fly charter flights for package holidays from Heathrow to the Costa del Sol.

Ernst_Rohr
04-05-2007, 08:50 AM
I dont think you could say that there was a "bravest". There were plent of men, who displayed a great deal of courage in situations that most of us would never even think about getting stuck in.

Here are a few;

WWI Allied pilots during Bloody April. These men KNEW their planes were horribly inferior to the Albatross, and they were literally getting slaughtered in droves. Yet even with that, they flew. Cast Iron pair.

WWII photo recon pilots over occupied Europe and Germany. They flew into an hostile armed camp, against radar, flak, and enemy fighters in a (usually) unarmed plane with just speed and luck between death or capture. HUGE brass ones.

WWII RAF Bomber command crew. Only 1 in 4 Bomber Command crew survived a tour of 30 missions. Odds were roughly 50/50 on coming back from any mission and about a 55% chance that you would be killed during your tour. Only Uboat crews had a higher casualty rate in WW2. HUGE brass ones.

The RAF Dambusters. Fly at night, in a heavy bomber, on the deck, through incredibly heavy air defenses, and drop experimental bombs at so low an altitude that your bombsights dont work. Cast iron!

Late war Japanese and German volunteer pilots. These guys volunteered for flight duty, knowing they were losing, and taking brutal casualties daily, yet the still enlisted. Most didnt survive. Huge brass ones.

The Dolittle Raid pilots. Flying loaded land bombers off a carrier (crazy) into the capital of Japan at the peak of its power, and then running for China or Russia and hoping for a place to land. Huge brass ones.

8th Air Force unescorted bomber crews. As the Schweinfurt raid shows, unescorted bombers were easy meat to Luftwaffe fighters, yet these guys did it again and again. Huge brass ones.

9th Air Force medium bomber (B-26 Marauder) flak suppression and anti-V weapon crews. These guys flew into the heaviest concentrations of flak to knock out V-1, V-2 and the flak sites themselves. Unlike the the more famous 8th AF crews, there was not a 25 or 50 mission limit. These crews flew until they were shot down, injured, or deemed unfit for flight duty.

claypidgon
04-05-2007, 09:01 AM
ME!! For starting the game.....http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-05-2007, 09:14 AM
I'm with Olli on this one. All those guys that were the first...the pioneers...the ones that did what man wasn't supposed to do but did it anyway. I'm talking about flying in general. Not necessarily the milestones of flight as much as the inventing and implementation of manned flight.

Anyone that came after them at least knew it could be done.


TB

Brain32
04-05-2007, 09:36 AM
Chuck Yeager is IMO a candidate, every single attempt of braking a sound barrier before him was a failure with quite a few deaths but he did it anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
I would sure like to have X-1 in il2, just for the kicks ofcourse http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

R_Target
04-05-2007, 11:36 AM
TBD Devastator pilots.

Bo_Nidle
04-05-2007, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

My vote would be for the US Astronauts involved in the first Moon landing in 1969.

No flight computers as today and they landed on the Moon by 'the seat of their pants'. No chance of rescue and a parachute would have been of no use due to the laws of physics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Their mission was a total unknown.

I was also impressed by the crew of Apollo 13 and their use of cross-hairs for re-entry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Were medals awarded?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I spoke to Al Worden the command module pilot of Apollo 15 at the KSC a couple of years ago (actually I basically hijacked the "Meet an Astronaut" part! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif) I asked him which he found to be the more challenging: The Apollo mission or his years spent as a USAF test pilot. He said without hesitation it was being a test pilot. Our conversation went on for 10 minutes or so and continued afterwards. He spent some time at Farnborough during his test pilot years.Very pro-Brit. Jolly nice chap indeed.(in middle below)
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/ap15-71-HC-700.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/NidlesandWorden.jpg

The bravest pilots other than combat pilots IMHO are test pilots, especially in the 1950-60 era when the technology was new and the escape mechanisms problematic. Lets face it who today would design an aircraft with a downward firing ejection seat as was fitted to the F-104A Starfighter. I know they thought it was necessary to clear the tail but to get in knowing that the aircraft's engine could easily fail on take-off with no practical means of ejection?!!!

Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier in the X1, Scott Crossfield reaching Mach 2 in the D-558 Skyrocket, Yeager losing the X1A at mach 2.3 and breaking the canopy with his head during the spin. Mel Apt losing his life in the quest for Mach 3 in the X2. Taking the X15 to mach 6. The list goes on.
http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nJQAAANAL6riqD041YOPjpuGY1ZZbknuyG6GblBwfe C71Wp8r84x*a4RAFqxkh6vZsxiXHyKjPXg

Braver than me. I hover on the verge of panic in an airliner!!

EctoGamma
04-05-2007, 12:49 PM
As has been said already all pilots are very very brave.

But for my PO I would have to say its the co-pilots of the larger bombers. Knowing their roll was to take over if the pilot and most likely friend was killed or hurt. Must have been very hard.

Spectre1968
04-05-2007, 01:41 PM
Aeroflot pilots http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Blutarski2004
04-05-2007, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Reminds me of, was it Collins? The CM pilot on Apollo II. When he went around the dark side of the moon after the Eagle had set down he ruminated that no human being had ever been as alone as he was during those moments.

I've always wondered if he maybe had a wank. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... The "Right Stuff?"

M2morris
04-05-2007, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Reminds me of, was it Collins? The CM pilot on Apollo II. When he went around the dark side of the moon after the Eagle had set down he ruminated that no human being had ever been as alone as he was during those moments.

I've always wondered if he maybe had a wank. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... The "Right Stuff?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it was Collins.

" Fantasic sports fans!"

He walked on the moon eventually; during the Apollo 15 mission I think. On the pad at KSC those Apollo crew sat on a 360 foot tall monster filled with 500,000 gallons of kerosine and 500,000 gallons of liquid oxygen in the main booster stage. I read that the hydrolic system used to 'point' the articulated engine nozzles was pressurized from the same kerosine to save wieght.
Nixon had prepared a speech that was to be in honor of the brave fallen, or stranded-astronuats.


But the X-15 guys were very balzy too, I found this story and I might take a drive out there to see the site. I mean if your gonna go; then there are worse ways of dying. The X-15 pilot in this story died bravely.
Imagine going into an unrecoverable dive and reaching mach 3.9 or faster before you disentigrate at 65000 ft.

http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/X-15A_crash_site.htm

Xiolablu3
04-06-2007, 05:06 AM
The guys who went to Malta in 1941-42 have to rank high IMO. Also the Maltese people who put up with 'the most bombed place on earth'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp5IF9ijeZQ

The Maltese sure put up with some serious sh*t during WW2.

Great chapter on Malta in my Johnnie Johnson book - 'The Story of Air Fighting'.

From 1940-42 the RAF there were in real bad shape. At many points they were down to 5 or 6 planes yet they still met the luftwaffe force of 100+ bombers and even more fighters no matter what the numbers. The planes being far safer attacking the Luftwaffe than staying on the airfield!
(German pilots at the end of WW2 must rank high too when they attacked the forces of Allied air power with meagre numbers)

As the situation got worse, every day they even had to fly the unservicable aircraft away from the island at the time of each raid, otherwise they would surely be destroyed by bombs. Flying them back once the raid had finished.

The first time they got SPitfires, 60 were flown off a carrier 600 miles away, with no guns, and unserviced for combat. They arrived at the island just as an air raid was in progress and almost every one was destroyed on the ground or shot down coming into land by prowling 109's . DOH! Safe to say that every next plane to be delivered was sent combat ready!

Eventually the tide began to turn in mid 1942, and once the first Spitfire IXs arrived in the desert with a crack Polish outfit, the gallant squadron leader S. Slalski and Skalski's circus, they began to really hit the Luftwaffe back. Expecting Spitfire V performance, the LW flyers were shocked to find out they no longer had the performance advantage they had enjoyed over the Spitfire mkV. Malta had survived, but both the people of Malta and the RAF there, had been put under terrible hardships.

Brave men, on both sides.

mandrill7
04-06-2007, 06:32 AM
I'd have to go with Lindbergh, but I'd also like to mention the VVS pilots in the first couple of years of the GPW. Their a/c were hopelessly inferior to the 109 and many of them had only a few hours of fighter transition training. It was odds-on that they would be killed in their first serious d/f. Not only did they fly the missions, but many of them also tried to ram LW a/c, if they ran out of ammo or their a/c were seriously damaged.

Most of them also refused to be captured when they were shot down, as Stalinist Russia considered being a prisoner a form of "treason".

Dagnabit
04-06-2007, 07:08 AM
Very Cool,
We are getting some good examples here, but lets not forget the ladies. I would give at least a very honourable mention to the Russian women that were called "Nachtthexen", or "Nightwitches". The 588thNight Bomber Regiment had obsolete Polikarpov P02/U2 aircraft (95mph) Same biplane in 1946.
Here is some stuff from an article I found

"
In 1942 the Soviet Union formed three regiments of women combat pilots who flew night combat missions of harassment bombing. They flew obsolete Polikarpov Po-2 biplanes, that were otherwise used as trainers, and which could only carry 2 bombs that weighted less than a ton altogether. They were so successful and deadly the Germans feared them, calling them "Nachthexen""”night witches. (Some sources state that they were nicknamed "Night Witches" because it was made up entirely of female pilots and they flew their missions in the wooden Po-2's at night.)

The Night Witches were the women of the 588th Night Bomber Regiment. All of the mechanics and bomb loaders of this regiment, as in the 586th IAP and the 587th Bomber Regiment, were also women.

The Soviet women bomber pilots earned in total 23 Hero of the Soviet Union medals and dozens of Orders of the Red Banner. Two women bomber pilots"”Katya Ryabova and Nadya Popova"”in one night raided the Germans 18 times. The Po-2 pilots flew more than 24,000 sorties and dropped 23,000 tons of bombs. Most of the women bomber pilots who survived the war in 1945 had racked up nearly 1,000 missions each. They had served so exemplarily throughout the whole war that they participated in the final onslauqht on Berlin."

Anyway they seem very impressive to me and very good at what they did. They developed some surprising tactics, and were nearly impossible for 109s and FWs to dhoot them down, because they were so slow, but very manuverable. I also read that an Iron cross would go to any LW pilot that could shoot one down.

Regards
Dag

Heliopause
04-06-2007, 10:21 AM
Difficult question, but I go for the Polish fliers. They fought for their own country and the countries of others.

M2morris
04-06-2007, 05:42 PM
Now HERE'S a brave pilot, uh wait, no... stupid. He's stupid.
This guy is stupid.
Hmm.
I have posted a photo of a stupid pilot. Sorry.
This is the brave section.
I will wait for a stupid pilot topic to come up and I will try again with this photo, sorry to be an inconvenience.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/planegeek/Dam_eng_wont_start.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
04-06-2007, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dagnabit:
Very Cool,
We are getting some good examples here, but lets not forget the ladies. I would give at least a very honourable mention to the Russian women that were called "Nachtthexen", or "Nightwitches". The 588thNight Bomber Regiment had obsolete Polikarpov P02/U2 aircraft (95mph) Same biplane in 1946.
Here is some stuff from an article I found

"
In 1942 the Soviet Union formed three regiments of women combat pilots who flew night combat missions of harassment bombing. They flew obsolete Polikarpov Po-2 biplanes, that were otherwise used as trainers, and which could only carry 2 bombs that weighted less than a ton altogether. They were so successful and deadly the Germans feared them, calling them "Nachthexen""”night witches. (Some sources state that they were nicknamed "Night Witches" because it was made up entirely of female pilots and they flew their missions in the wooden Po-2's at night.)

The Night Witches were the women of the 588th Night Bomber Regiment. All of the mechanics and bomb loaders of this regiment, as in the 586th IAP and the 587th Bomber Regiment, were also women.

The Soviet women bomber pilots earned in total 23 Hero of the Soviet Union medals and dozens of Orders of the Red Banner. Two women bomber pilots"”Katya Ryabova and Nadya Popova"”in one night raided the Germans 18 times. The Po-2 pilots flew more than 24,000 sorties and dropped 23,000 tons of bombs. Most of the women bomber pilots who survived the war in 1945 had racked up nearly 1,000 missions each. They had served so exemplarily throughout the whole war that they participated in the final onslauqht on Berlin."

Anyway they seem very impressive to me and very good at what they did. They developed some surprising tactics, and were nearly impossible for 109s and FWs to dhoot them down, because they were so slow, but very manuverable. I also read that an Iron cross would go to any LW pilot that could shoot one down.

Regards
Dag </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good summary Dagnabit, but it's not all true. There were three separate regiments, the 586 IAP, an air defence group flying Yaks, what later became the 125th Guards Bomber regiment flying Pe-2's, and the ones you know, the 588th, or the 46th Guards NBAP, with their Po-2's.

The 46th was also the only one composed entirely of women. The 586th and 125th had many male members of their crews, pilotry, and staff due to the nature of numbers and the advanced features of the aircraft that most of the female mechanics did not have the technical skill to deal with, as they never had the proper training on the specific aircraft, or the strength to man the guns in the Pe-2, or for various other reasons.

The last paragraph isn't so true. They did attempt some tactics to counter fighter attack, but their best defense was usually the darkness. They were helpless against fighters because of their very slow speed, and maneuvering can only save them for so long.

I'm glad that someone else shares my passion! I suggest you pick up the book "A Dance with Death," by Anne Noggle published by Texas A&M University Press. It's their accounts translated in interviews.

Draughluin1
04-06-2007, 09:29 PM
Lt. Cdr Eugene Esmonde VC. and the men of No. 825, Fleet Air Arm Squadron.

Ishmael932
04-06-2007, 09:50 PM
IMHO, Leutnant Werner Voss. 48 kills in WW1, he got the other of the first 2 Fokker DR1s after Von Richtofen. A link to the story of his last battle.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/voss.php