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View Full Version : How are you Americans getting along with the Metric system in IL2&FB?



XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:06 AM
Do you like it?

What sort of conversion do you do in your head?

Do you find it confusing?

Or is learning Metric a good thing?

Thoughts?

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Message Edited on 07/30/0304:07AM by Heuristic_ALgor

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:06 AM
Do you like it?

What sort of conversion do you do in your head?

Do you find it confusing?

Or is learning Metric a good thing?

Thoughts?

<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do</marquee></center>


Message Edited on 07/30/0304:07AM by Heuristic_ALgor

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:10 AM
I am a mechanical engineering major, so the metric system doesnt bother me anymore. The weird thing is, since this is my first flight sim I get really confused trying to fly the american planes now, I only know aircraft speed in kph.

"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:14 AM
I find myself used to flying with in metric, and difficult to fly in american planes anymore.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:19 AM
Oh come on, Americans do fine with the metric system!

I still use the US Customary for driveing and other things in normal life, but use Metric for flying.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:25 AM
I'm a retired commercial pilot, but I still get some flying in. I learned to fly with knots, flew over 12000 hours with knots and all the varied aircraft that come through our airports here in New Orleans have knots or in rare cases mph. When I come home and play IL2FB, I would appreciate a handy conversion available to knots IF I am flying an a/c that would normally have ... you guessed it! KNOTS! Making the conversion from mph to knots is easy, making a conversion from metric is just a bit slower and not as accurate when I convert while busy flying. A fantastic box sim/game would be even better with a conversion option.


Falcon

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:28 AM
I have noticed that USA students who, after completing their basic Physics, which here in USA is taught in metric, the USA students then whine when USA engineering teachers assign problems with English units. They prefer the engineering problems in metric.

There must be a reason for this. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:30 AM
We're not as dumb as you might think we are. I actually prefer the metric system over the archaic system of random units we've been forced into using. I admit that I do sometimes get a little disoriented with the units but overall, it's a nice change of pace.

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Message Edited on 07/29/0309:30PM by MackZ

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:30 AM
Oh, to answer the Question::

Yes, Flanker 1.0 was my first flight sim, and not only was I already in love with metric, but I learned my first Russian too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:33 AM
No dumbness was implied Dave /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:39 AM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- I have noticed that USA students who, after
- completing their basic Physics, which here in USA is
- taught in metric, the USA students then whine when
- USA engineering teachers assign problems with
- English units. They prefer the engineering problems
- in metric.


Yes: METRIC IS A SIMPLE EZ TO USE SYSTEM!

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:42 AM
Metric is the simplier of the two systems, therefore easier to understand.

That said, I use metric more than the english system for just about every measurement needed.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:46 AM
Metric IS simpler, it actually has some reason behind it! Hehe. I often used knots in civil sims, and it bugged the hell out of me.....when a cessna lands at 60 knots....the hell? It's not even a 3 digit number lol.

Metric to win.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:48 AM
I flew with JG26 in Warbirds for 4 years. Learned my metric conversion there. I have more trouble with american planes than others.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:48 AM
I was taught both systems in high school here in Canada and use both still to this day.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:49 AM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- I have noticed that USA students who, after
- completing their basic Physics, which here in USA is
- taught in metric, the USA students then whine when
- USA engineering teachers assign problems with
- English units. They prefer the engineering problems
- in metric.
-
- There must be a reason for this. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
-

Hey, it could be worse. I am told that chemical engineering students get to learn around sixty different "barrel" units, and none of them are easy conversions.

Electical Engineers get some nutty measurments to deal with too. Apparently, the people who were originally quantifying electricity got it backwards. It seems it is the negative charges that are moving, and not the positive ones. So, half the time we are working in positive charge flow, and half the time was are working with negative charge flow, and the equations don't always convert nicely. Then there is the fun part of handling charge moving in both directions. That where the fun *really* begins.

Harry Voyager

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:53 AM
HarryVoyager wrote:

-
- Electical Engineers get some nutty measurments to
- deal with too. Apparently, the people who were
- originally quantifying electricity got it backwards.
- It seems it is the negative charges that are
- moving, and not the positive ones. So, half the
- time we are working in positive charge flow, and
- half the time was are working with negative charge
- flow, and the equations don't always convert nicely.
- Then there is the fun part of handling charge
- moving in both directions. That where the fun
- *really* begins.
-


ah yes rememeber my undergrad electrical engineering well .. powerfactors and phase compensation in a 3 phase system just for starters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

slightly more on topic

the most SENSIBLE units for aircraft are knots and nautical miles as they make navigation simpler

adlabs6
07-30-2003, 05:57 AM
After IL2 I am totally meteric. I make no conversions mentally, I've never saw the reasoning for this... I just learn the speeds that apply for each type of plane in the units that are shown on its dials. (Don't use the speedbar, and this gets way easier.)

Meteric is easiest I think.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:09 AM
Well it depends...We..South Americans have it nailed...we use it for everyday life, kilograms, meters, litres, etc, just as usual; on the other hand..here in North America (that big place between Mexico and Canada) is almost unknown ..with honorable exceptions, just make the conversion with this simple rule of thumb

3.3 feet is aproximately 1 meter
(3,300 feet is roughly 1000 meters)
5,280 feet is 1 mile
1 Mile per hour is roughly 1.609 kilometers per hour

Learning metric is good...the rest of the world uses it.


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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:14 AM
No problems.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:18 AM
I'm an engineering student in Australia. The countries entire measurement system was changed from imperial to metric abbout 30 years ago. since I'm doing engineering I have to used imperial measurements as the americans still used it for their engineering applications. I have no problem with etheir as i spent 3 years in the states.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:20 AM
Oh yeah engineering problems in english units are evil. Then I have to convert to metric anyways. And who wants to measure small stuff fractons of an inch, what fraction of an inch is one picometer?

"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"The future battle on the ground will be preceded by battle in the air. This will determine which of the contestants has to suffer operational and tactical disadvantages and be forced throughout the battle into adoption compromise solutions." --Erwin Rommel

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:56 AM
I am a coverted man! actually i live in the USA and I am an artist and when i do any sculptures i build everything with metric measurements. the fact that units are in groups of ten makes converting scale easy. it seems to make the most sense. we should all convert!! life would be easier.

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ahh its a crap plane anyway!!!
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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:03 AM
This is why the Mars Probe failed, one dude didn't do his conversion properly. Metric is a lot easier to work with as it is a multiple of 10 unlike the English units. I find 99% of my US friends are against Metric for unknown reasons.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:24 AM
Fresh PPL earned, and I'm used to think in nautical miles and knots. I think that they're the best units for navigation on earth... But I've to use kph and kilometers for every other thing. I simply mentally "switch" my measurement system whenever I climb on a plane. And, best of all, there're always Jeppesen flight computers...

But listen to a funny story I learned when I was a physics student: I was studying cosmology, and about at the second lesson my professor said:
Well, for the sake of simplicity we put c (speed of light) equals 1. And let's go to calculations...

Well, this is a conversion! Equations were much more simpler, but whenever you had to do REAL problems with REAL distances and measurements you had to go back to your calculator really hard... Headaches everywhere.

And this is nothing compared to what you've to do whenever you near speed of sound: Mach 1 is simple, it's a good, round "1"... But it's the most variable of all units. You simply CAN'T say what's the speed whenever you hear "mach 1"! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:38 AM
As long as you don't have to do any maths worth mentioning, it really doesn't matter what system you use. It's when you calculate the volume of a body that's 15 yards long, 4 feet wide and 3 inches thick it becomes a bit nasty. Add to that that its mass is 2 stone, slap on a 3 cubic-feet body with a mass of 50lbs and calculate its total density and you have a mess (quick now, does it float?) Here is why engineers usually prefer a consistent system.

The only maths that we could be doing in this sim (but aren't) is for navigation and fuel consumption, calculating the time it takes to get where you want to. For that it also doen't matter that much which system you use, as long as it's consistent. If distances are in nautic miles (makes very much sense on a map with degrees and minutes marked) you want speeds (aircraft TAS and airspeed) in knots. If distances are in km, you want speeds in kp/h, and if distances are in miles, you want speeds in mph.

Other than that, the the altitudes and speeds are just magic numbers. I'm used to the metric system. In my real-life flying I fly with altitude in feet and airspeed in knots. I never try to recalculate them, because it really doesn't mean anything. I need to know my stall speeds, my landing speed, my rotate speed, Vx, Vy. I need to know cruise RPM, maximum RPM. I need to know how much fuel I have (which I calculate in hours, btw, and not gallons or litres.) I need to know what altitudes I'm allowed at. Due to athmospheric conditions the altitude on the altimeter and speed is hardly ever the same as given by a GPS anyway. The only conversions I ever make is for American planes which have tables/diagrams of takeoff-landing distance in feet, and all runways here have publicised lenghts in meters.
_
/Bjorn.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:45 AM
I like the metric system, it made me look smart in math clases back in the usa, now i am in mexico ones again lol

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 08:04 AM
I think in metric when looking at metric, no conversions needed. However, in my profession when you are looking at really old plats and surveys and have to think "How mny feet in a chain?" "How many links to a rod?"

Ok an acre is 10 square chains, 66 feet to a chain that is 660x66=43560 square feet.

Can I have an aspirin now?


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michapma
07-30-2003, 08:06 AM
How is the rest of the world getting along when flying American and British planes? /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

Part of the Russian training for using the P-39s and P-40s was learning the new units, but they learned it fairly quickly.

I've been working with the metric system as an engineer since high school and living in Europe the last few years has helped. I'm even getting some sense for people's weight in kg and their height in cm. I still don't have a fine feel for it though.

A kilometer is a smaller measurement than mile, for example so a drive of 200 miles is 320 km. Makes you feel like you have further to go until you get used to it. It's nice to see the kilometers fly by (more) quickly, and it also takes some getting used to understanding how fast the speed feels. The speed limit in Switzerland is 120kph, which is 75mph, and it took me a while to realize that it's faster since I don't drive here much. The speed limit in town is often 30kph, only about 19mph. Not that most people drive it. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-sad.gif

What I miss is the measurement of things in feet. Not altitudes, mind you&mdash;I mean the dimensions of things that are less than a meter long or less than a few meters. Once something is less than a meter, you either say "a little less than a meter" or you start spouting distances in centimeters. "It was about 50 or 60 centimeters long." I have real trouble guessing how many of those suckers fit into a distance, because there are so many of them! It's coming along, it just takes repetition. I find feet (and even inches) much more practical, since they are a smaller measurement for bread-box-type dimensions.

But yeah, now I have more trouble thinking of altitudes (especially low ones!) in feet than in meters.

Cheers,
Mike

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ShadowHawk__
07-30-2003, 08:12 AM
I'm Canadian, I'm used to the Metric system in everything other than flying. Until I got IL2 it was all Mph and altitude in feet and I have to admit when I first got the sim I found flying in metric a bit weird. I've gotten used to it though and I know flying better in metric now than in imperial or standard or whatever you want to call it.

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michapma
07-30-2003, 08:36 AM
They're called redneck units. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 09:36 AM
As a Canadian in his late thirties, I'm stumped. When I was a schoolboy, the official national conversion from Imperial to SI took place when I was about 9. During that crucial time in my life I sort of understood feet/inches/miles and sort of understood/centimetre/metre/kilometre, etc. Unfortunately, I don't have a really good grasp of either. It has dogged me all my life. I just try to figure out the important numbers. 120 kph will stall my I-16, 3000 metres is too damned high to fly, etc.

I agree that knots would make the most sense, but in this case, the only real problem is with the SpeedBar vs. the gauges in the Yankee planes. There is a serious disconnect for those of us who try to read the gauges.

Bill

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 11:40 AM
LOL....Give a poor old 42 year old American a break. Also please excuse my spelling as my dictionary is in the other room. Since I have been using the net my spelling has gone to heck in a handbasket.

When in the kitchen, I still use the old tried and true English measures for cooking etc. Of course, some of our measuring devices also feature metric equivalents, but my darn cookbooks don't use them.

When I was working as a mechanical designer for the building trades we also used English units as well and metric units were only used for overseas projects and as dictated by the client. Now on the other hand, our electrical engineering counterparts used nothing but the metric system, ie. lumens, watts, amperes, etc.

I should think there are many disciplines in the United States that use the metric system exclusively, mainly engineering and sciences.

Contrary to the beliefs of the rest of the world, most of us have been schooled in using both the English and the metric systems of weights and measures. It would not take long for me to adapt if need be.

When you really think about it, what the heck is the difference other than establishing a world standard. Why should the French dictate what is used anyway?

I really don't care if my unit of measure is based on a gold bar or the length traveled by light in a vacuum or someones foot size from ancient times as long as some consistancy has been established and is the resulting weights and measures are repeatable.

Good night!

Popov

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 12:00 PM
doesnt matter if it is in metric or American as long as i can fly and i dont see 0 kph and 0m alt when i am supposed to be at 350 kph and 1000m



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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 12:31 PM
The only part I had difficulty with at first was comprehending altitude expressed in meters; I overshot the runway A LOT.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 12:34 PM
Were not all victims of America's public school unions.

Either method works just fine.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 01:45 PM
This is my first flight sim and at first I was having some issues with the Metric System. I never had studied with the Metric System that much in school- Science and math were not my strongest areas. However, after a little while I got totally used to the system. I actually don't like flying in American planes now- I have to then use calculations to see what speed and Alt i am going in Metric. The funniest thing was the first time I drove in Canada and the speed limit read 85. Thinking it was still in mph I started to haul booty- and got pulled over. Now I love the Metric System.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:01 PM
Easy for me I'm fine with it.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:38 PM
I'm British and I learned how to fly metric in Flanker 1.0

Either system, metric or imperial, suits me fine now.

It's not a problem.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:49 PM
Is IL2 in metric?

Actually, it's all relative and how ANY measurement applies in a certain situation and recorded in your memory is the only important thing. As stated earlier, knowing your stall speed, cieling, max dive speed etc, regardless of the measure is the most important.

But really, is IL2 in metric?



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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:50 PM
Heuristic_ALgor wrote:
- Do you like it?
-
- What sort of conversion do you do in your head?
-
- Do you find it confusing?
-
- Or is learning Metric a good thing?
-
- Thoughts?
-
-

METRIC? No wonder I can't hit anything. LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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Message Edited on 07/30/0308:54AM by FA_Maddog

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 03:14 PM
Right now when I fly the Russian or German aircraft I turn the speed bar off(unless I need a heading in some of the Russian planes) I still use it though when flying US planes. Been trying to break the habit and learn takeoff, corner, and landing speeds in standard. btw I'm an US citizen.

P.S. This is an international forum, so simply saying 'American' is a little broad since technically everyone from Alaska to Patagonia is an 'American'



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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 04:21 PM
Don't be silly. I have always measured my weed in meteric units. Wait did I just say that? I meant to say, I have a good friend who does that. No, wait a minute. I have heard that some people do that. No, wait again......... Man, I sure am hungry. You would not have a large bag of Oriole Cookies, would you?

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 04:28 PM
How many grams in an ounce Dave? /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 04:31 PM
I don't convert it at all.

That way things seem faster, higher and more fun!

What's more cool - going 140 miles per hour in a biplane or going 140 KPH?

Enough said.

(since it's all relative, btw, there's no need to convert anything. Who cares how many feet 2,200 meters is - what you need to know is that's when you have to change the supercharger setting on your LaGG. And zero meters altitude = zero feet altitude = broken plane.)

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:04 PM
I dont have a problem with it at all, and i am a dumb jarhead lol. I think its pretty simple. Have any of you looked at speedometer in a American car. hmmm if u notice 100kph= 60mph on your speedo, so i guestimate my speed being if i going 500kph, i do this 5x60 being 300mph roughly works well for me p47 cruising speed is 350mp or roughly 590kph. Now altitude i just guestimate Meters to yards, its not perfect but i get a idea of how high i am, 3000meters, i am about 9000ft now i believe a meter is about 3.2 ft so its not perfect but its close enough for me.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:24 PM
Yep.

He's a "Jarhead" all right.

LOL


Hawk

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. J. Ripper

Message Edited on 07/30/0304:25PM by Hawk-4

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:26 PM
divide kph by two, then add 10%. Not perfect, but gets you through till you start thinking in kph /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/images/proctorZeke.jpg

"My ancestors didn't come over in the Mayflower--they met the boat."


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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:33 PM
I'm 12 and I can handle the metric system... it's actuly pretty easy!

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:49 PM
I've always had the opinion that all measurements should be Base 10. I never understood why we have anything different, yet there are more forms of measurement than... well, than you can count.

We should even have a Base 10 measurement of Time.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:53 PM
Heuristic_ALgor wrote:
- Do you like it?
-
- What sort of conversion do you do in your head?
-
- Do you find it confusing?
-
- Or is learning Metric a good thing?
-
- Thoughts?



I work in Civil Engineering and use both on a daily basis, so it hasn't really been an issue for me.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:58 PM
I botherede me for a little, as I didn't have an effin clue as to how far up I was or how fast I was going, but now it's just relative. I still don't know how fast it is, but I know what I can do at what speed and alt so I'm fine.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:01 PM
Falcon-4 wrote:
- I'm a retired commercial pilot, but I still get some
- flying in. I learned to fly with knots,[snip]
- Making the conversion from mph to knots is easy,
- making a conversion from metric is just a bit slower
- and not as accurate when I convert while busy
- flying.[snip]

a basic conversion: your speed in knots is roughly half your speed in kph. more accurate is halve it, then add 10%.

Happy to help anybody understand the metric system...kind of my mission in life /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif [eyes off soap box, decides a pro-metric rant is better saved for another day, walks away]



cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


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oh yeah, and I'm a Whirlwind whiner too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:04 PM
28

http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/phist.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:05 PM
Heuristic_ALgor wrote:
- How many grams in an ounce Dave?

28.5, but most dealers round up to 30...oooh, did I say that ? (huge grin)



cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


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oh yeah, and I'm a Whirlwind whiner too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:19 PM
just dont burn your brain thinking about it, measures are units, everything stops at 0..he he

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:44 PM
Got no problem with metric or feet / lbs etc... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Loco-S, you wrote earlier: "here in North America (that big place between Mexico and Canada)"

uh........ as far as I know, Canada and Mexico are considered part of North America /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 08:09 PM
I am from Russia originally but have lived in the U.S. for a while and now I'm all confused. When driving its easier for me to think of speeds in mph and fuel in gallons(but I think of volume in litres) but distances in metres/kilometres.

No problems in Il-2 though...



Message Edited on 07/30/0302:11PM by KrasniyYastreb

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 08:26 PM
Doing fine, used to fly Warbirds, my squad was LW, the instruments were metric, I learned /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

"Be happy in your work!"
- Col. Saito

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 08:36 PM
I'm currently entering my sophmore year of college working on a Physics degree. I have yet to hear anyone complain about getting problems in the Metric system but everyone whines and moans when we get stuff in Imprerial. My damn Chemestry instructor forced us to learn the imperial system /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif . That was the first time I was actually expected to know how many feet are in a mile or how fast a furlong per fortnight is /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . The Imperial system is dying here in the USA, but it is a slow death. Most younger people like me use metric for most things and only use imperial for roadsigns and filling our fuel tanks. Our wonderfully incompetent government just refuses to change that stuff to metric /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif .

So the short answer is no, it is the imperial system in the P-47, P-39, P-40 and hurricanes that give me trouble.

----------------------------------------
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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 08:59 PM
Um, dude, it's "chemistry".

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 10:32 PM
I'm not the brightest guy when it comes to that kind of stuff. I'm a computer guy myself. I'm 17 so I dont have ultra high education really. Anyway, I think its weird on the height of my plane when it says 50. I dont know what that means, I know it means low to the ground and stuff I just use my best judgement. For speed I think its weird to do like 500Kph in a ME109 then only 300Mph in like an american plane. Just odd transition, I wish it could convert like they have in CFS3 how you can have either Metric or Standard.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 11:22 PM
I wonder why Americans and Brits are so odd. Especially Brittish people that can´t drive on the right side of the road while the rest of the world is doing it.

And why do they use non logical measurings system that is no good for anything except confuse people. Again why don´t adapt to the rest of the world and go to the fully logical Celsius and metre system.

Makes life much easier for everyone.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 12:10 AM
oeqvist,

LOL
I suppose you feel all warm and snugly with a tiny, blissful, and protective view of the world that you appear to have.

Ah youth!

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. J. Ripper

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 12:17 AM
Hawk-4 wrote:
-
-
- I can no longer sit back and allow Communist
- infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist
- subversion, and the international Communist
- conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious
- bodily fluids. J. Ripper

!

Have you ever SEEN a commie drink water?



This American has zero problem with dealing with the metric system. Both systems are logical if you consider that they are in effect arbitrary systems. One is just based on a nice easy principle. Inches are broken up into tenths, hundredths, etc., just as easily and I have had precisely zero accuracy problems in high tech (aerospace parts production) applications using the system in the US that deals with old timey inches feet and yards. When a European customer wanted something done in metric, I just measured it with the metric system. What's so hard? It's not like learning a new language.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 12:19 AM
What I mean is can anyone actually describe the logic of the system with yards, feet and inches?

In the metre system 1 metre is 100 cm is 1000 mms. Can´t be easier.

However what is the relation between yards, feet and inches?

And what is fahrenheit based on? In Celsius 0 is the freezing point and 100 is the boiling point of water.

Much easier for simple persons like me to understand.

Also why do the Brits force all the tourists to drive on the wrong side of the road? Can´t be good for the traffic safety can it nor for british people to drive abroad?

What it boils down to I guess is that american and people got so much water around them they forget there actually is land beyond all that water and thus want the world to adapts to them.


Hawk-4 wrote:
- oeqvist,
-
- LOL
- I suppose you feel all warm and snugly with a tiny,
- blissful, and protective view of the world that you
- appear to have.
-
- Ah youth!
-
- I can no longer sit back and allow Communist
- infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist
- subversion, and the international Communist
- conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious
- bodily fluids. J. Ripper

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 02:14 AM
Even the Star Trek universe uses Metric Dave /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do</marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 02:21 AM
I dont really like it but its not confusing either...

but oh well...

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 03:10 AM
oeqvist wrote:
-- Also why do the Brits force all the tourists to
- drive on the wrong side of the road? Can´t be good
- for the traffic safety can it nor for british people
- to drive abroad?
-
- What it boils down to I guess is that american and
- people got so much water around them they forget
- there actually is land beyond all that water and
- thus want the world to adapts to them.
-
-


Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Korea, India, Japan and China all drive on the left side of the road, only two of the above are commonwealth countries, which is filled with nations such as NZ, South Africa and Aust that also drive on the left.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 03:28 AM
D-Spade wrote:
- Um, dude, it's "chemistry".

Which is why I'm not an english major /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 03:39 AM
Im trying not to offend the gringos, they think that "America" is only USA..he he

Cold_Gambler wrote:
- Got no problem with metric or feet / lbs etc... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- Loco-S, you wrote earlier: "here in North America
- (that big place between Mexico and Canada)"
-
- uh........ as far as I know, Canada and Mexico are
- considered part of North America -
-
-
-



http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Pawnee1995.jpg

A man and his Messerschmitt..its a beautiful thing
[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
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I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein Würgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 03:40 AM
Being British, and therefore inately superior to most, I have no problem with the metric system in FB. I never bother to calculate my speed down to mph. All I see is numbers. My plane is doing 400 (chickens per hour ?) at 2100 (dolphins above sea-level ?) then I know how it will respond to my inputs. Doesn't matter what the numbers say or what system they're written in, you're just aiming for sweet spots in particular situations.


Lixma,

Blitzpig.

Hawgdog
07-31-2003, 03:42 AM
Metric? Whats that? Which folder is it in?
Pint, thats metric right? Lets see, 10 pints in a gallon, 10 gallons in a barrel, and 100 barrels in a lake, right?
Easy as pie.

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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 04:48 AM
Us peons in the USA who do not have conversion charts in hand it is a bit confussing.I know what a hundred yards looks like. Being a carpenter I work with feet & inches. Metric is just not natural to me.
I find it is a drag having to convert stuff while reading a book with metrics then convert to see it .
Most WW2 US airplane data is in feet or knots not metric.
Working on your feet all day and having to convert this to that is just wasting time.
I'm old school been working with feet & inches so long. I know a mile or a football field. The math is the easy part,changing your way of looking at things is the hard part.


For everything their is a appointed time,and their is a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, and time to die. A time to laugh, and a time to weep. A time for peace, and now it is a time for War.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 04:56 AM
I was fortunate in that I grew up (supposedly) during the 70`s, when Canada had officially adopted Metric. I cannot conceive of being saddled with the old Imperial system - multiples of 10 are infinitely easier to work with than the varying relationships in Imperial. Having said that, I certainly have sympathy for those who did not grow up with Metric - changing such a basic measure of the world around us after you`ve used it for so many moons must be very daunting and intimidating.

Strangely enough I find my own judgements of speed are far more accurate when I am presented with mph rather than kmh... go figure.

I do hope the US adopts Metric at some point in time in the future.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 05:03 AM
no problem with KGS, CGS, English, /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

(Physics degree... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

" The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down ": General Chuck Yeager, USAF, describing his first confrontation with a Me262 - - -
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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 05:13 AM
If you add up all the metric units and multiple them by 666 you get the name "Osama" spelt backwards. Iraq and Korea also use metric units.

This is incontrovertible evidence that the metric system is the spawn of the devil and all good god fearing people should use knots, furlongs and fathoms henceforth.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 06:18 AM
No wonder It seemed I was going slower. LOL just kidding/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 06:59 AM
Wow, that is almost 10 countries of about 290.

Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Korea, India, Japan
- and China all drive on the left side of the road,
- only two of the above are commonwealth countries,
- which is filled with nations such as NZ, South
- Africa and Aust that also drive on the left

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 07:03 AM
The smart ones handle it just fine, thanks.

The rest voted for Al Gore (or was that Pat Buchanan?)! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 07:05 AM
oeqvist wrote:
- Wow, that is almost 10 countries of about 290.
-
- Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Korea, India, Japan
-- and China all drive on the left side of the road,
-- only two of the above are commonwealth countries,
-- which is filled with nations such as NZ, South
-- Africa and Aust that also drive on the left
-
-



Sweden of course just got bored one day and all started driving on the other side overnight.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgAHA0gXAod3BKw19!arygqA5dMWLcwm4J7gALgcRNNV!o!rv oZ53hcr1hlEz!Kp3kzGE*pKp7J*IEwmEFIUxyP7k4xN1MXw9X* 9KEhUs7Y8og7PalELXQ/aircraftrounds.jpg WIDTH=150 HEIGHT=120

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 08:14 AM
metric makes sense u can do conversions on the spot, its designed to make sense to be pratical for use, even in the US metric is used because its alot more practial they just havnt caught up with the rest of the world yet and implement it in general use.

Imperal system is like they took a bunch of random people from the luny bin and got them to design a measure ment system, with no relation between the units.

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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 02:14 PM
owlwatcher wrote:
- Us peons in the USA who do not have conversion
- charts in hand it is a bit confussing.I know what a
- hundred yards looks like. Being a carpenter I work
- with feet & inches. Metric is just not natural to
- me.
- I find it is a drag having to convert stuff while
- reading a book with metrics then convert to see it .
- Most WW2 US airplane data is in feet or knots not
- metric.
- Working on your feet all day and having to convert
- this to that is just wasting time.
- I'm old school been working with feet & inches so
- long. I know a mile or a football field. The math is
- the easy part,changing your way of looking at things
- is the hard part.


Speak for yourself/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ........Im no peon../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .. I got used to it by looking at the metric scale on my car when I drive..now it is second nature...most American cars also have metric readings along with the standard ones on the speedo unless it is digital..(dont know about them) so when you are tooling around town just do thew comparrison...after a while it will sink in.

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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 03:19 PM
Some of these posts seem much less of an argument where the metric system is better used, because it gets all industry on the same page around the world, for example, and more of a "dumb ol' USA can't get with the program so we're better than they are"

Well, keep your inferiority complexes away from me! Stick to the issue at hand: not which country is smarter, better, more clever, or has better looking citizens than the USA, but rather the merits of the metric system.


As an unrelated note:

I have talked to many people who consider it "bad form" for folks in the USA to call themselves "Americans". Fine, but you tend to use the North American example. Look at this issue another way:

> we don't called ourselves "North Americans" in the first place. We aren't 'stealing' the entire continent. We say "I'm American", not "I'm North American"

> the indigenous people who lived here were called Indians by mistake...and it was modified to American Indians. By who? Our ancestors. The same folks who called the 13 colonies on the east coast of the present day USA "the American colonies" It's not like we just started using the tag "American" around here yesterday, and it wasn't even the USA when it was first coined. If you want to complain about the term, complain to the Brits, lol. They did it, not us.

> what would you like us to say? People from Canada are "Canadians". People from Mexico are "Mexicans". They take their contry's name and modify it. OK, fine. Pronounce this word- "USAians", or try saying this one whenever someone asks your nationality: "United States of America-ite".

Um, no. Doesn't work, does it?? Same reason people living in the USSR were called "Soviets"- nobody was going to say "USSRian" as their nationality, it sounds stupid. So give us a break over here in the US, okay? We have capital letters for a common form of our country name that doesn't lend itself well to naming our citizenry, and it's NOT our fault in the first place that the area our contry occupies is called "America" in it's common form- the original 13 American colonies of Great Britain had their little war, somehow or other we won and got independance, the place was already called America, and we added more territory. It's not like 250 years ago the colonists hatched a plan to pervert the term "America" to mean the USA, but face facts: it happened and you or I can't change that no matter how morally outraged you get! So stop worrying about it. I never identify myself as a North American, so any mistake that occurs from people thinking I'm including our southern and/or northern neighbors is not my fault in the first place, and trust me, folks around the world know full well that Americans are not Mexicans nor are they Canadians. I've talked to people in industry from Australia, Africa, Europe, and Canada. All of them knew exactly what I was talking about when I said "America", there was no confusion, and they know that Mexico and Canada are not the USA.

It's a non-issue in the first place, and the cold fact is: you're not going to be able to change it, so deal, brother!

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 06:43 PM
WTE_Galway wrote:
[snip]

- slightly more on topic
-
- the most SENSIBLE units for aircraft are knots and
- nautical miles as they make navigation simpler
-

not if your map is in kilometres. Why do you think knots and nautical miles are the most sensible units?

(curiosity, not meant to be a flame.)


cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


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oh yeah, and I'm a Whirlwind whiner too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 07:16 PM
WTE_Galway wrote:
- If you add up all the metric units and multiple them
- by 666 you get the name "Osama" spelt backwards.
- Iraq and Korea also use metric units.
-
- This is incontrovertible evidence that the metric
- system is the spawn of the devil and all good god
- fearing people should use knots, furlongs and
- fathoms henceforth.
-
-

ALL HAIL SATAN ! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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<center>I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 07:16 PM
BBB462cid wrote:
- It's not like 250 years ago the colonists hatched a
- plan to pervert the term "America" to mean the USA,
- but face facts: it happened and you or I can't change
- that no matter how morally outraged you get! So stop
- worrying about it.

Well put... here's another OT tidbit: Did you know the size of the Space Shuttles Engines can be directly correlated to the size of a horses ***?
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The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and English expatriates built the US railroads. Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. Why did 'they' use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts. So who built those old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe (and England) were built by Imperial Rome for their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the ruts? Roman war chariots first made the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels and wagons. Since the chariots were made for, or by Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Thus, we have the answer to the original question. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman war chariot.
Specifications and bureaucracies live forever. So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder which horse's rear came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman war chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the back ends of two war-horses.

And now, the twist to the story...
There's an interesting extension to the story about railroad gauges and horses' behinds. When we see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. Thiokol makes the SRBs at their factory at Utah. The engineers who
designed the SRBs might have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory had to run through a tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track is about as wide as two horses behinds. So, the major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined by the width of a Horse's ***!

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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 08:26 PM
Hey thats a good one Blind.

Ya'll just try getting used to our USA system of wrench sizes. 1/4 inch, 7/8 inch, 3/16 inch, blah blah the only way to tell the sizes apart is to be use them alot, or be a wiz at fractional arithmetic.

I agree with owlwatcher, to each our own, but that includes the aircraft we fly....

Euro aircraft should be in Metric and native languages (Russian/German/Finn etc....

USA/UK aircraft should be in English and native language (English /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif )

And with a properly zoomed Instant Instrument View key, with return to previous view upon key releace, there should be no speedbar needed in any "flight sim," unless the cockpits got screwed up somehow in development. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Thus, to fly a foreign aircraft, we must learn a different system of measurements if they are different. Full Real. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif