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OldPepper
02-11-2005, 04:40 PM
This is a 2 angled question.

First, at times my Hurricane gets damaged such that the engine will race almost out of control. Either from bomber gunner damage or misusing prop pitch.

I change prop pitch a bit often when attacking bombers (or fighters for that matter.) So why will my engine racing and over RPM? Did a prop blade get shot off? Did I over pitch in dive-swipes and bust something? Or did I forget to pitch back to 100% climbing up again? Is this in the FM?

Second.
With a Mk.I or Mk.11.B (with 8 .303 guns) should I content myself to slash at the engines and pilot? Seems I should just hit the engines unless head on then try for the pilot.

Generally I use short range convergence (150m or so) but for these bombers, 300m or more may be better. Thing is the .303's will do litle vs fighter escorts once the bombers are discouraged. Should I keep my prefered vs fighter convergence on intercept mission?

Thanks for any tips in this regard.

The Hurricane Mk.I and Mk.IIb are wonderfully challenging planes.

FYI, I'm working out the very early stages of the dynamic BoB from Extreme_One and Poymando & Co. Great campaign so far! Thanks.

The Battle of Britain was the tooths skin for the Brits, for sure! Thak god Hitler was greedy ad started the Barbarosa Campaign on the eastern front, or the UK would have had no skin left on their teeth!

OldPepper
02-11-2005, 04:40 PM
This is a 2 angled question.

First, at times my Hurricane gets damaged such that the engine will race almost out of control. Either from bomber gunner damage or misusing prop pitch.

I change prop pitch a bit often when attacking bombers (or fighters for that matter.) So why will my engine racing and over RPM? Did a prop blade get shot off? Did I over pitch in dive-swipes and bust something? Or did I forget to pitch back to 100% climbing up again? Is this in the FM?

Second.
With a Mk.I or Mk.11.B (with 8 .303 guns) should I content myself to slash at the engines and pilot? Seems I should just hit the engines unless head on then try for the pilot.

Generally I use short range convergence (150m or so) but for these bombers, 300m or more may be better. Thing is the .303's will do litle vs fighter escorts once the bombers are discouraged. Should I keep my prefered vs fighter convergence on intercept mission?

Thanks for any tips in this regard.

The Hurricane Mk.I and Mk.IIb are wonderfully challenging planes.

FYI, I'm working out the very early stages of the dynamic BoB from Extreme_One and Poymando & Co. Great campaign so far! Thanks.

The Battle of Britain was the tooths skin for the Brits, for sure! Thak god Hitler was greedy ad started the Barbarosa Campaign on the eastern front, or the UK would have had no skin left on their teeth!

DangerForward
02-11-2005, 05:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldPepper:
This is a 2 angled question.

First, at times my Hurricane gets damaged such that the engine will race almost out of control. Either from bomber gunner damage or misusing prop pitch.

I change prop pitch a bit often when attacking bombers (or fighters for that matter.) So why will my engine racing and over RPM? Did a prop blade get shot off? Did I over pitch in dive-swipes and bust something? Or did I forget to pitch back to 100% climbing up again? Is this in the FM?

Second.
With a Mk.I or Mk.11.B (with 8 .303 guns) should I content myself to slash at the engines and pilot? Seems I should just hit the engines unless head on then try for the pilot.

Generally I use short range convergence (150m or so) but for these bombers, 300m or more may be better. Thing is the .303's will do litle vs fighter escorts once the bombers are discouraged. Should I keep my prefered vs fighter convergence on intercept mission?

Thanks for any tips in this regard.

The Hurricane Mk.I and Mk.IIb are wonderfully challenging planes.

FYI, I'm working out the very early stages of the dynamic BoB from Extreme_One and Poymando & Co. Great campaign so far! Thanks.

The Battle of Britain was the tooths skin for the Brits, for sure! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a really hard task taking on a HE111 in a Hurri. My advice would be to concentrate fire on the wings. Also try head on attacks like the German eventually did on the US bombers. Also, I remember British pilots talking about preferring beam attacks, although I know that's pretty hard. There are some factors that work against you though. For one as a the HE111 player, I'm not very afraid of dying, so my aim isn't thrown off from fear. Secondly if you're fighting an AI gunner...they're really good no matter how you attack.

When I fly the HE111 so many players just roll up nice and slow in my six. I switch to the belly gunner and blaze away. It's really not that hard to drive them off. The HE111 seems to really soak up damage too. Unless my plane is on fire, I can usually go for quite a while. Structurally I believe it's a little too strong too. I can perform many maneuvers that I should be able to. Hope this helps...

SlickStick
02-11-2005, 05:24 PM
Getting hit in the engine can damage the prop pitch or constant speed prop mechanism, causing the RPMs to race out of control.

This happens to many of the planes in the game and is a part of the damage modeling.

73GIAP_Milan
02-11-2005, 06:28 PM
He111's were known to suck up LOTS of damage..
the Hurricane's .303's are not that effective as bomberbuster guns..

Aim for Wingroots, Engines,Cockpit and outer wing panels (fuel tanks there). If you're coming in with a rearside attack, just aim at EVERYTHING BUT the FUSELAGE..
if you come in head-on, then aim at the cockpit and engines..

200-230M convergence is what i use in Hurricanes for both bomber and fighters...
Their engine is absolutely their weak point, get a few hits in there or the radiator and kiss the plane goodbye..
Overrevving engines seem quite a common damage..(YES i do end up on a bomber's 6 more then alot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

steiner562
02-11-2005, 06:44 PM
I posted some tracks for gazzamataz hurricane verse he-111 a while back(FR settings etc) they are beatable especially if attacked from the front and high,I have not tested in the current patch, I remember gibb complaning about the he gunners in the same thread,but if you fly clever you can even take out the pilot in one one attack run, not to mind the gunners in previous patches.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-11-2005, 06:49 PM
Your best bet is definitely to swing around in front of the bomber formation and attack from dead ahead with a ten to fifteen degree elevation. I've tried killing the pilot but that never seems to work for me. I like lining up on the spinner of one of the enines and letting my shots walk acroos the engine nacelle. Flames every where, the thing won't have a chance.

wayno7777
02-11-2005, 09:30 PM
In the mission to get the high alt 111, the gunner almost always takes one of my wings off. One time right after my wing came off, I bailed and watched him fly on. About 45 seconds later he broke into flames. Of course I was captured when I landed.

Badsight.
02-11-2005, 10:15 PM
He-111 is only bomber in FB that has a full Damadge Model , or should i word it as "has the most developed Damadge Model"

RAF testing showed .303 caliber rounds was stopped by the Heinkels armour on a high percentage & needed a close shot on a proper angle to penetrate

that test was posted here in the past

dieg777
02-12-2005, 02:14 AM
I rarely if ever shot down a he111 in flames while playing the campaign- best I found was to aim at wing roots and engine and once I saw smoke or fuel streaming out left them alone- they would fly for ages but eventually crash land in the water- If you want to get the kills instead of a probable-dont exit the mission when you have landed or see mission complete, land , park, press ctrl F2 and watch the damaged enemy planes and see if they crash- helps to speed up the game x8 or it gets boring.

you can also edit the skill level of the enemy gunners from super sniper to sniper http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif by editing your config file see link in my sig on how to do so.

LeadSpitter_
02-12-2005, 02:37 AM
attacking the belly of all bombers seems to kill all ai gunners now, rear attack seems not to.

Come in high above the he111 about 2000m alt advantage dive down past the he111 out of his gunrange And with High E climb and use a deflection shot on the belly of the he111 which will kill all the ai gunners and pilot most cases with one pass, the plane will still fly on forever till they hit refly. But if you want then you can attack direct 6 with no gunners firing on you.

this works the same for the a20 and b25 with the zeros and kills the ai everytime.

try it out and let me know how it goes.

--------------------------------------------
He111's were known to suck up LOTS of damage..
the Hurricane's .303's

the he111 was nothing more then a modified passenger aircraft. These ac were extremely flamable and very weak just like the ju52 which was more rugged and had 3 engine reliability. The he111 was much faster then the ju52 but a much weaker ac.

the only things armored are the pilots seats the h6 had additional armor added for crew and pilot protection it doesnt mean the ac got any stronger just safer for the crew.

msalama
02-12-2005, 03:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>These ac were extremely flamable and very weak. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

_Exactly_ my impression too... I mean I know jack s**t about air combat, being the n00b that I am, but even _I_ have found He111s pretty easy to kill...

So I'm a bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif here, truth be telt...

NorrisMcWhirter
02-12-2005, 04:59 AM
Hi,

You have to modify your attack angle as, even though most BoB shootdowns were from a small angle off dead 6, you can't do it in this game - the gunners are "too" accurate. Try slashing attacks to engines/nose or head ons to the cockpit. Of course, the Hurri does lose prop control if you even so much as fart near it...

Cheers,
Norris

Kurfurst__
02-12-2005, 06:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
the he111 was nothing more then a modified passenger aircraft. These ac were extremely flamable and very weak just like the ju52 which was more rugged and had 3 engine reliability. The he111 was much faster then the ju52 but a much weaker ac.

the only things armored are the pilots seats the h6 had additional armor added for crew and pilot protection it doesnt mean the ac got any stronger just safer for the crew. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Wrong as usual Leadspitter. The He 111 was from the beginning designed as a bomber, it was just concealed as a 'passenger' aircraft for the Lufthansa.

The below quote is froma British evaluation of the He 111H - an early version shot down over England in 1940. The picture taken is that it`s quite a tough aircraft.


http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/715_1108215178_pro_111_tactical_5.jpg

F19_Ob
02-12-2005, 06:38 AM
In real life the bomberpilots feared the headon attacks aimed at the pilot but in fb+pf I really prefer to fire at one of the wings and hoping to set an engine or fueltank on fire.
If u succed to set it on fire dont return to finish the job because he most likely wont make it and that way u dont take unnescessary risks exposing yourself to defensive fire or faster fighters.

While short convergence work well on short ranges and can cut the fuselage of a 109 its usually useless because u must come close to the bomberand thus be exposed to the gunners.
In this case highspeedpasses are preferable so u get out of range faster but that also gives u less firing time.

Infact convergence set to around 300m is better
because it gives a concentrated pattern on longer range and that enables u to disengage sooner so u are exposed to defensive fire less time and do not have to pass close to the bomber and thus making harder deflection for the gunners.
300m convergence are also better for fighters since all german fighters have better accelleration and level speed than the hurricane.
This means that the hurri has very limited time to fire before the enemy is beyond effective range.
U normally do not bounce a fighter in a hurricane and the only likely kill is a fighter who made a big mistake probably because of inexperience.
But even an inexperienced 109 can just outaccellerate a hurri in level flight in a few seconds and if the convergence is set to 150 the ammo will go in thin air on 300-400m.
Most experienced 109 pilots wont stay level though. They will spiralclimb and thus leaving the hurri behind faster because of its poor climb. So with experienced luftwaffe U most likely wont be able to point your guns at the enemy before he is beyond 2-300m or further away, unless he makes a mistake ofcourse.
But if the convergence is set to 300m the hitpattern is still ok at 600m. beyond that its mostly a waste of ammo in the smallcaliber hurricanes.
So 300 is optimal for bombers and fighters.

Other faster fighters may benefit more with less convergencerange but the hurricane really is too slow for any experienced luftwaffe fighters.

a few thoughts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

msalama
02-12-2005, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The picture taken is that it`s quite a tough aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK. But why the h*ll is it so easy to kill even by complete nubis like me then?

LeadSpitter_
02-12-2005, 08:02 AM
you are wrong show appendix c and what was armored fool. pilots only and bomb internal storage.

Thats what aircraft amor is used for protecting the pilot not making the plane a superman impossible to shoot down surviving dozens of passes kurfust!!! the fuel tanks are just as flamable and wings just as weak! YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN kurfurst


Take a look at this footage which you have to pay for

22 February
Squadron Leader Douglas Farquhar of No.602 Squadron takes the first British gun-camera film of the war, while attacking and destroying a Heinkel He111 over Coldingham in Berwickshire.

and then tell me how you think the he111 should be a flying armored death star taking dozens of passes to be shot down.

go buy the dvd called "guncamera footage of wwii" its a 45 min dvd and has multiple british hurricane guncam on he-111s.

and how does this prove me wrong? read 17. again and see what it says.

It should SAY YOU IS WRONG!

and try what I said in game which is different from reality a bottom attack kills the whole crew in game, does the same for the val dauntless b17 a20 b29 he111 b25 b24 when direct 6 wont kill ai gunners.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-12-2005, 08:32 AM
The HE-111 was a further development of a plane called the Blitz which set all sorts of passenger aircraft speed records. The first prototype of the HE-111 was a bomber, the second a civilian airliner that I think could only hold about ten or fifteen people and then the third prototype was a bomber also. I think the real problem with the plane is it that it is a product of the pre war notion that bombers would fly too high and too fast for fighter aircraft to intercept. That would explain the lack of integral armour designed into the plane. When armour was finally added to the planes it seems to be more like after market equipment.

Maj_Death
02-12-2005, 02:08 PM
I can't say much about the hurricane as I have only flown it a few times since it was introduced in the IL2 series. I do fly the He-111 alot though. The worst thing you can possibly do when attacking an He-111 or B-25 is park your plane on their six and start shooting like you would against a fighter. The He-111 is much tougher than your little fighter and has 2 engines instead of one. The He-111 is also attacking you from the front regardless of the direction you attack from. This gives the gunners a good shot at exposed engine or unarmoured components. It takes very few hits to an engine from the front to kill it. My suggestion is of course to attack from dead six so I get lots of easy kills on you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. But seriously don't attack that way, I suggest slashing attacks from the side. In a hurricane you are unlikely to get more than half a kill that way, but atleast you won't get your head severed. The only hurricane good for killing bombers is the IIc with its 4x20mm's.

LeadSpitter_
02-12-2005, 03:37 PM
oh yeah btw checkout the hurricat catapult launched which shot down a condor with 8 .303s http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif~

Sea Hurricane Mk 1A

"Hurricat". Hurricane Mk I conversion with catapult spools that allowed launching from Catapult-equipped Merchant ships (CAM ships).

hobnail
02-12-2005, 05:00 PM
If anything the Condor was definately more fragile than the He111...

73GIAP_Milan
02-12-2005, 05:40 PM
You know, i blew up a He111 in just a few shots..

i did not save the trackfile but i came from the 9 o' clock position with my la5fn and hit it just behind the cockpit area in the bombbay..
the result was 1 huge explosion and no more He111..
it took me just 30 rounds of 20MM ammo at max and got away unharmed..

try it, you might like it...most bombers hate it to get hit in the bombbay..even those tough Pe-8's and B-17's...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
02-12-2005, 06:25 PM
Another great way to kill bombers is to get directly above them and dive vertically at them. The top gunners don't have the deflection to track you and you'll quickly find you recticle filled with bomber. I prefer shooting at the tips of the wings as they break off easily but pooring rounds into the feus at this attidude does an amazing amount of damage too.