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View Full Version : Me-262, bug or no?



XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 08:46 AM
Whenever an engine catches fire in the 262 you can shut it down and put out the fire. But it keeps re-lighting again and again until it finally explodes. If this is a bug, I hope it gets looked at. If I am wrong, then I apologize. It just seems to me that if you shut the engine down it shouldn't keep catching fire repeatedly.

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XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 08:46 AM
Whenever an engine catches fire in the 262 you can shut it down and put out the fire. But it keeps re-lighting again and again until it finally explodes. If this is a bug, I hope it gets looked at. If I am wrong, then I apologize. It just seems to me that if you shut the engine down it shouldn't keep catching fire repeatedly.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/images/anthony1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 09:21 AM
I think it's a bug, as well as the inability to restart the engines in flight - per RLM manuals. I sure wish someone would post a thread dealing with it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The muzzle flash stutter might also be a bug; I dont know..

A little birdie tells me you have a similar problem. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 04:24 PM
Don't know whether this is a bug. Maybe the oil in the still red-hot engine starts to burn or so? Hopefully someone can clarify this, I'm quite curious too.

However, it's not limited to the 262. I'm currently also flying a 107E-7/B Stalingrad campaign and it also spontanously starts to burn again.

Jeroen

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:22 PM
They shouldn't burn at all due to misuse (too fast throttle movement). That's a small but vital reading issue here. They don't burn, but they do burn out, means they just shut down, so they must be restarted. Don't have it right now, but somewhere I read of Adolf Galland about this plane, first flight or so. He pushed the throttle too fast, so he had to turn the engines up again. But dunno if it really was A.G., could have been someone else.



Also noticed something very strange about burning engines. They start burning, but then they stop again. Now I saw that it depends on several factors. They don't burn at:
Full throttle, maintaining 500-~750km/h IAS. Going faster or slower makes them start burning again, or just chop throttle, then they'll go up, too. Bad mistake in FB to shutdown the engines, although that would be the right step in reality.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 08:34 PM
Very bad if this is a bug. I just died last night on VOW when my engines burned after attacking some La-7, one of then exploded very close to me and put my engines on fire.

I was very fast and could not loose speed to bail before my right engine/wing exploded. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Message Edited on 10/16/0308:45PM by BVG_Erick

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 05:20 AM
- Also noticed something very strange about burning
- engines. They start burning, but then they stop
- again. Now I saw that it depends on several factors.
- They don't burn at:
- Full throttle, maintaining 500-~750km/h IAS. Going
- faster or slower makes them start burning again, or
- just chop throttle, then they'll go up, too. Bad
- mistake in FB to shutdown the engines, although that
- would be the right step in reality.

Yeah, I have tried to shut them off as well, which I thought would shut off the fuel, but that doesnt seem to work. So, as it stands, if you get an engine fire, you should just bail out, because it will eventually explode, no matter what you do. Is this truly correct? I mean, I have read some things about the engines being "Tricky" and prone to catching fire on the ground, but does anyone have any documents or first hand accounts about extinguishing fires while in flight? I know these engines were primitive compared to today's standards, but if they were this volatile in real life, you can bet I wouldnt have flown them! (Kinda like the 163.. Those guys had to be fools to strap themselves into that thing! One little puncture and you become a roman candle.. or one little leak and you become a pile of mush!)

Yes I have tried many times (Probably 40 or more) and have not been able to restart the engine, so I dont think it is coded for an air restart. That's a shame because it could be done IRL.

It's funny that someone posted about losing an engine for no apparant reason at low altitude. Just yesterday, I was on Greatergreen flying the 262 and bounced a P47 that was really really low to the ground. I hesitate to post this because it could be used as a good defensive tactic if I am correct! I flew by the P47 fast, like 850 KPH IAS. I fired a shot and totally missed him (Still working on high speed deflection shooting). He started to pull up tightly, so I went under him. I was really close to the ground, but I am positive I didnt hit. I slowly started to pull up to the right and immediately discovered my left engine on fire. I ended up having to bail. My first thought was.. did I suck up some rocks or something into my intake? LOL Then, was there some sort of weird air vortex that made my engine ignite? Or perhaps sudden unexplained engine fires are modeled in the game, that would be kinda cool - frustrating, but highly realistic! I really dont know the answer to this, but I will probably spend a lot of time tomorrow trying to duplicate it. If I do, Ill make a track for sure!

If anyone else has experienced this, let us know. If it has something to do with ultra low level flying, then I know what I would be doing if I were trying to escape a fast Me262!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 07:34 AM
I have never been able to resart engine in air so I doubt this is modelled. Still, I am more concerned about not being able to put out fires for good, that is a killer.

I had a strange online experience the other night. I made a high speed pass at a Yak-9U at very low altitude and high speed. I missed (mainly due to guns pausing when firing), and overtook him at high speed. All of the sudden I noticed how quiet it was and realized that both of my engines were dead. Not flaming or smoking, just dead. The only explanation I could come up with is that I started to throttle down slightly and after a pause or lag or whatever, it exaggerated my throttling down slightly so much so that it shut down my engines. Strange.

I just hope they make it so engine fires can be put out for good.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/images/anthony1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 07:49 AM
About the muzzle flash stutter. I have found just one burst of all four is enough. If I miss I then ( 1 ) I don't have time for another shot anyway cos I am very fast or ( 2 ) I am going too slow to be safe around enemy fighters anyway and I better think about getting to safety (speed) instead of re-aiming after the stutter.







Message Edited on 10/17/0306:50AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 08:26 AM
when i lose an engine my plane dosnt yaw to the side with no engine, it just keeps flying straight as if nothing hapened...im sure this would be verry easy to fix

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 08:32 AM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- About the muzzle flash stutter. I have found just
- one burst of all four is enough. If I miss I then (
- 1 ) I don't have time for another shot anyway cos I
- am very fast or ( 2 ) I am going too slow to be safe
- around enemy fighters anyway and I better think
- about getting to safety (speed) instead of re-aiming
- after the stutter.

Agreed, unfortunatley I get stutter with every burst. Even when I just use a single burst (which is most of the time.) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

The instance I was referring to was when we both dove down to the deck at very high speeds with nobody else around so a second burst was possible but the stutter makes it useless.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/images/anthony1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 02:14 AM
I get an engine in fire at least 4 on 5 times on ground attack or - as already noticed - low altitude.
First i thought about bad attack tactic - fire on the colon path and low speed for good aiming - but 10min ago i did it well, high speed, short shot by the side and break, no push up on gaz... same, engine on fire...

for the burning : i switch off engine in fly cause in fire, land where i can, than the engine caught fire again !!!

There's really someting wrong.

for starting engine - not really sure - i think it need an external generator, so i don't think this is really a bug if we cannot restart them on fly.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 03:05 AM
just my experiences with the muzzle flash stutter:

i get a lot of stutter if i shoot any of the cannons for any amount of time. usually it wouldn't be quite that bad, but it really makes the 262 unflyable when you're trying to set up those last minute, high angle deflection shots. however, if i go into no cockpit mode, i get no stutter at all. unfortunately, i usually play full real and i've grown way too accustomed to cockpits to turn them off, even just for a second. not to mention that it's very uncomfortable to be switching from cockpit on to off every time i have to shoot. it's too bad that they have this bug or whatever it is; maybe the flash effects can be toned down on the lower settings so that the stutter won't show up on lower end computers.

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 04:12 AM
My computer isn't the slowest of everybody who posted here, but I'm certain it isn't the fastest, and I have never had a stutter problem when firing the 262's guns.

Am I just lucky, or ignorant to what the "stutter" problem you guys are talking about really is?

http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/airwolf/pic1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 05:27 AM
Waterinthefuel,

Are you playing with cockpit on? I have no stutters with cockpit off or from external. Only with cockpit on (which is a must) and it gets worse the closer I view (gunsight view is worse than normal which is worse than wide view). I almost have no stutter/pause in wide view, and almost no stutter/pause in normal view with A-2. I have BAD stutter/pause in gunsight view. The 262 is the only plane that causes stutters when firing and the A-1 is worse than the A-2 for me so the number of guns has an effect. It seems like sometimes I fire and I see no tracers or no flash and there is no stutter, but when there is a flash I get stutter/pause. I'm fairly sure it is the flash, so I would think that it is a video card issue. I'll be upgrading to 9800 Pro soon so here is hoping. I have no problems firing the 190 A-9's 2x30mm, 2x20mm, 2x13mm guns all at the same time so I don't think it is a bullet or sound thing, I think it is a flash thing. Still, firing the 108 seems to take alot of resources and the A-1 has four of them right in the nose.

Waterinthefuel, you have no pausing even when firing all guns in 262A-1 in gunsight view? What are your system specs?

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/images/anthony1.jpg



Message Edited on 10/18/0304:32AM by Hunde_3.-JG.51

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 12:39 PM
waterinthefuel wrote:
- My computer isn't the slowest of everybody who
- posted here, but I'm certain it isn't the fastest,
- and I have never had a stutter problem when firing
- the 262's guns.
-
- Am I just lucky, or ignorant to what the "stutter"
- problem you guys are talking about really is?
-


My sys. is about HALF the recommended specs, cockpit on, no stutter!

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'Smoke and a pancake?'</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 07:25 PM
i dont have stutter only when i zoom to much to the cannons

<center>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Fly at HL as <center>[b]Aceman[b]</center>
http://defence-data.com/storypic/spitfire.jpg

"Take off,is only the beginnigg
Bail out, is YOUR end."

Message Edited on 10/18/0312:26PM by Juego

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 07:51 PM
Juego wrote:
- i dont have stutter only when i zoom to much to the
- cannons

You mean you get stutters in gunsight view in 262 then right?


http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/images/anthony1.jpg

jg51.com

Message Edited on 10/18/0306:51PM by Hunde_3.-JG.51

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 12:53 AM
you can light up a me262 both engines catch fire for a good ammount of time then they go out and the plane still seems to have full speed and fly fine, also you cant restart an engine in flight and its glide is silly along with its elevator effectiveness at 900kmph "L turning Ability" I've read in many books the 262 had to dive down when firing because of recoil of the 4 cannons.

I love the 262 but its just silly and seems so arcadish now, a wwii jet should be extremely difficult to fly getting unstable in the rudder and elevator swaying motion.

whatsup with the 108 cannon shells exploding on the ground like a 1000lb bomb, its really uneccasry and probally creates more lagg and pauses.

http://www.freewebs.com/leadspitter/lead.txt
Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 06:33 AM
Whenever an engine is on fire and you are able to get it out with the engine still on, the RPMs do constantly decay. So you can't just fly on like nothing happened. Also it will always catch back on fire soon, even if you have altitude and you can keep the speed up. In fact, even with the damaged engine off, it will still light back up with speed, which doesn't make any sense at all. If it's off, there's no pressure in the lines, so nothing is circulating to leak out and ignite. And with the airflow the engine temperature plummets once it's off. It should not keep flaming up like this. Initially, fine, but once it's off and cooled, it doesn't make any sense to me.

Leadspitter, which book said that it had to be diving to fire? I've never heard that before.

<center>http://flygirl.dhs.org:8080/jg51/Alpine-Thunder.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
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XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 09:57 AM
Wolfgang Schenk

http://www.freewebs.com/leadspitter/lead.txt
Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 09:51 PM
some planes kick up or down on fire
air restart should be possible, because of air turning the jet /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
and a fire again should not be garanteed
ive also had them stop for no reason /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 10:15 PM
Hunde_3.-JG.51 wrote:
- Juego wrote:
-- i dont have stutter only when i zoom to much to the
-- cannons
-
- You mean you get stutters in gunsight view in 262
- then right?
-


Only if i do max zoom and fire.


<center>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
Fly at HL as <center>Aceman</center>
http://defence-data.com/storypic/spitfire.jpg

"Take off,is only the beginnigg
Bail out, is YOUR end."

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 06:53 PM
Bump

With the new maps, there will be more coops and "Hopefully" arenas that might include the 262. Getting the "Always exploding engines" and the "Cant restart engines" problems fixed would be appreciated!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 07:40 PM
I also get fps drop when I fire the guns with cockpit on, the muzzleflash of the 30mm cannons have a smoke patern, and smoke in short distances causes fps drop on FB.
About the Me-262, the nosewhell don`t move when using rudder, if this is not a bug and the real plane did it please let me know.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 08:34 PM
*bump* for never exctinguishable (sp?) engines and engine restart in flight.

Jeroen

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 04:15 PM
Ok, dude, by no means take what I say as something written in stone, but I do believe that the nosewheel of the 262 was not connected to the rudder and it was steered using differential braking. By all means I could be wrong.

http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/airwolf/pic1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 04:33 PM
waterinthefuel wrote:
- Ok, dude, by no means take what I say as something
- written in stone, but I do believe that the
- nosewheel of the 262 was not connected to the rudder
- and it was steered using differential braking. By
- all means I could be wrong.
-


You are correct, the nose wheel was NOT 'connected' to the rudder. As you say, differential braking and the rudder if the speed was high enough. The nose wheel was of the castering type.


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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 09:50 AM
It would move during a turn, but was not steerable. In FB, it does not even move. I'm not sure if this affects its taxiing ability or not though.

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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:57 PM
Is it a miracle if la7 exploded near your me262 and put your engines on fire? of course it can happen, are you stuphid .-)?

and putting throttle too fast may get fire in your engines. I think it is not a bug, but happenes still too easily.
Me 262 is a prototype in plane history and technically first turbo-jet engines werent protected from too high pressure out boost when engine is not fully speeding enoght for that... so BOOM!

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 01:13 PM
j_a_l wrote:

-
- for starting engine - not really sure - i think it
- need an external generator, so i don't think this is
- really a bug if we cannot restart them on fly.
-

No, the Jumo could be airstarted in RL. One has to be under 4000m and the speed must be between 300-350kph with ~3000rpm on the tach.

As for high altitude flight (over 8000m), the POI says the engine must be kept above 8000rpm. I can't do this in FB.


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"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"