PDA

View Full Version : Cooling is VERY important



TIBUSH
05-16-2005, 04:46 AM
Hi all:
Just my last experience.
After system upgrade (see below), take a look at this:
- Side case panel closed: The Black Death: 17 FPS
- Side case panel opened: The Black Death: 31 FPS
All settings in excellent, except medium clouds (I don't like perfect settings nor high definition in clouds: I think they have been overmodelled).
1600x1200 resolution. AAx2 AFx2
420W PSU / Asus P4S800 / P4 3.0 / 1G PC2100 /
9800 Pro@XP 128 MB 420-360 + VGA Arctic Cooling-3 / MSFF2 / Track IR3 Pro + VE

Capt.LoneRanger
05-16-2005, 05:00 AM
How much fans do you have installed in your case?

SeaFireLIV
05-16-2005, 05:00 AM
How can you overmodel clouds? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Anyway, I keep the side off my case all the time as well.

WFLZ
05-16-2005, 08:43 AM
Have you ever seen the turn circle on those clouds? totally overmodeled...

tjaika1910
05-16-2005, 09:14 AM
Attach a fan on the side of cabinet.

I cut a hole, put in a silent 12 cm fan. It blows right on graphic card and CPU (and northbrigde). I have an old cheapo cpucooler. OC my Athlon XP 2500+ to 2.4 GHz (no need for more with current graphics). No problems, CPU is in the 30ish, silent system. But if I open the cabinet side door, temperature rises 5-8 degrees.

Freelancer-1
05-16-2005, 09:41 AM
Two things that are effective:

Cut a hole in the top of your case for an 80mm fan. Put it as far toward the back of the case as is possible. This will put a fan where the most heat naturally collects. Alert: Be sure the fan blows the air OUT of the case and not the opposite.

The other thing is a handy little centrifigal fan that pops into the PCI slot below the AGP slot and exhausts the heat from your video card out the back of your case. I don't feel like popping my case right now to see the name of it, but they are fairly common and it shouldn't be hard to find.

Be sure that your airflow is balanced. Meaning you have as much ambiant air moving into the case as you have hot air moving out. So you will want a fan pulling air INTO the case from the front and as near the bottom as you can.

And finally, keep your fans(and everything else) free of dust. Dust is an amazingly good insulator as well as airflow blocker.

LEBillfish
05-16-2005, 09:46 AM
Actually though it may work, opening up your case is not the best solution as air then just tends to linger. Naturally the best solution is a "well" designed case (granted few around as the motherboard dictates it really). Though I'm sure most here know all this stuff here goes ;p.

First off, tuck all your wiring in tight. Simply routing it to edges and opening up the case will do a lot toward improved air flow...a LOT...

What you idealy want is good "exausting" of the heated air, I myself also like having my exaust volume being more then intake just slightly. If you can, add fans so they do not draw heat from other sources over items you want cooled, and you'd be surprised how much heat hard drives generate.

Ram is another item that gets really hot, yet most never add heat sinks to them which can help some.......You can also open up slot covers for certain PCI cards to allow for better flow over say your video card....Simply remove the steel cover next to it...then using duct tape reduce the opening and try also to guide the air that will be sucked in there accross the card where it is most needed.

Trouble is, MB's are designed poorly and then to make things simple cases are....Normally in a vertical case, you have the heat from the hard drives sucked right over the processor and ram....PCI cards updraft toward the AGP card which then flows over the processor and ram as well.....All venting often out the Power Supply which isn't all that affected by heat.

Folks also when they try to add fans tend to not consider flow...often sucking out the cool air before it reaches what needs cooling. Granted, they will still draw out heat but it's not optimal.

In that free gap you have between your MB/PS and hard drives and disc drives at the top of the case, add an exaust fan. The intention there to remove the collecting heated air and make room for more... nothing more unless you add no others....Then it if you have intakes placed right will draw cool air over the items needing it.

Fans on the case cover often do more harm then good, as often, cool air is drawn in below the hard drives and disc drives initially intended to flow over the MB then out. So simply adding fans to the cover without considering that will often leave stagnant pockets of air about the pci cards and MB, plus suck out the cool air before it reaches where it is needed.

If the back of your case is too crowded for fans, consider one of two options if wanting to vent the cover....
1. Set your new fans as close to the back of the case as is possible, this will draw the cool air over the PCI cards and MB before being vented out and hopefully draw out "some" of the heat from those items befor it drifts elsewhere.
2. Run them down the center of the cover....However, you then must make openings at the back of the case to intake air over the cards and MB before venting out....So actually as close to hard drives as possible for the fans reducing the intake below the hard drives only allowing that which will draw over them instantly venting.

Remember, large openings for intake are not optimum....What happens is then that air simply tends to slowly drift in and slowly pass over objects before venting.....Ideally, you want the intake less then the exaust "to a point"...Too small and it just cavitates doing nothing....So you should feel a rather good flow being sucked in the case...Good as in "fast".

Another thing I have never seen but does make a difference, is getting air to flow "behind" the MB. That is a huge pocket of stagnant air, one I have never seen addressed yet can tell you it does affect case heat.

Something I have also done is mount fans on the opposite side of the AGP card....Once more poor design, yet heat rises...so in their infinate wisdom the Graphic card folks mount their chips on the down side of the card, so essentially the fans on it drawing off the coolest part......What I did was to take an old small processor fan and make offsets from round eraser stock then placed it on the up side of the card over the AGP processor...That way the "hottest" part of the card gets cooling as well, so essentially sandwiching the card.


Most of all though, occassionally check your heatsinks for warping or losing contact with their chips.....And clean clean clean everything religiously....Did I say clean?...I meant clean, then clean it again....Dust is the great insulator to help keep things warm, and keep cool air from getting to them.

All just IMLTHO (in my less then humble opinion) naturally http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

NetDaemon
05-16-2005, 09:56 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Well, I´m with Billfish on this one, even though she´s not stupid at all.

In my case (pun intended), I got two side mounted fans, so I get more cooling with the side panels on than off. Here´s some numbers: Mobo under load with side panel on: 35C; Mobo under load with side and all covers off: 47C http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

As you can see from those numbers and like Billfish said before, removing the side panels and associated fans from a case disrupts the airflow and causes air to just linger inside the case, thus not disipating heat at all.

So boys, if you wanna keep your case uncovered, make sure to have a desktop Fan blowing air right into the uncovered side and onto the mobo, cpu and vid card.


P.S. The mobo overheating during heavy load is due to the Vid card´s heat disipating over it than the mobo´s voltage settings, which in my case (pun intended again), are at their default values.

LEBillfish
05-16-2005, 10:32 AM
Whoops forgot something.....I don't overclock patially due to being a PC weetawd and partially due to heat.

Your PC will heat up as you run it (obviously why we're talikng about this)...Consider as well MB's, chips and Cards have gone from a science to cheap quickly made products that before the markup be it even your new 6800 Nividia or whatever, probably costs $2.00 in parts and labor (exageration but you get the point).

Due to this, we get them cheaper but the quality is less....The quality of the chips, resistors and such better, but what is not are the "solders"....Now don't get me wrong...Solders today I'm sure are better then 20 years ago. What is not is the manufacturing process so you will tend to get more "cold welds" meaning more "semi-defective" solders.

Now they may work for a while, but as your cards and such heat up, things expand and move, cool down and the same......Enough of that and it's like taking a spoon and bending it back and forth till it finally snaps.

Nothing you can do about the solders so put the gun away.......What you can do however is two things...
1. reduce the amount of expansion and contraction by keeping the guts as close to room temperature as possible...Or actually at a constant temperature....could be 90F....or could be 200F...what the problem is is the "change in temperature"...and at times how quickly.
2. keep on cooling...meaning, when you turn off your PC granted the heat "generation" stops, but so do the fans. It's a little thing, but still...The temperature goes up when you run it, higher when you run things like IL2 which are very processor graphic intensive....Down when you stop, then down when you turn it off.......But then up as things cool normally. So if you can make it so it cools OR warms at a steady rate, all the better.

That is one reason why sometimes PC's are better left on 24/7, simply turning the monitors off or using screen savers....It's the rapid heat up when you turn it on and jump into IL2, then when done flying shut it all down that will bite you....

So give it some gradual warm up time, just a couple minutes, Then give it a couple minutes after flying to cool..Then shut it off.

Seems like a silly thing, but if it gets you an extra year out of your graphics card say...is it worth it?

Freelancer-1
05-16-2005, 10:48 AM
For those interested, I use as a power supply, a 480 watt Enermax Coolergiant. One of the things that rock about this PS is that when you shut down the computer, its fan will continue to run until the case is at ambient.

In the same vein, the Nexus Prolong(sounds kinda rude) does the same thing with the CPU fan. To me, for twenty bucks it's a good "insurance policy".
http://www.nexustek.nl/

So, there's no real need to leave your rig on 24-7.

LEBillfish
05-16-2005, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
For those interested, I use as a power supply, a 480 watt Enermax Coolergiant. One of the things that rock about this PS is that when you shut down the computer, its fan will continue to run until the case is at ambient.

In the same vein, the Nexus Prolong(sounds kinda rude) does the same thing with the CPU fan. To me, for twenty bucks it's a good "insurance policy".
http://www.nexustek.nl/

So, there's no real need to leave your rig on 24-7.

Awesome...think I'll buy em http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

crazyivan1970
05-16-2005, 10:59 AM
Dang...BF.. you go girly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Never failed to amaze me yet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEBillfish
05-16-2005, 11:05 AM
well don't know about that Ivan, but I listen so try to learn. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Guess a benefit from being an idgit so long http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

sunflower1
05-16-2005, 11:15 AM
I didn't know I had a desire to show BF something she's never seen before!

There's 206CFM of exhaust fan-age in my case so I can use these grilles to vent the space behind the mobo.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/SunflowerX/th_FEBcomppic002.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/SunflowerX/FEBcomppic002.jpg)


At stock speeds the CPU peaks at 45C under load at 72F. Prescott 2.8/800.

I am running it at 3.08 with the voltage turned up a few notches and it peaks at 50C.

This case is very, very loud, unfortunately.

1.JaVA_Razer
05-16-2005, 12:08 PM
If you want a "real" powersupply go OCZ Powerstream. they come in 420W,520W and 620W flavors. And have ROCKSOLID voltlines that allow for:
1)Xtreme overclocking
2)Xtreme performance
3)Just plain and simply a good PSU

skabbe
05-16-2005, 12:33 PM
i got 5 120mm fans in my box. must make it more aerodynamic, maybe it will fly then...

GreyFox5
05-16-2005, 04:37 PM
For those of you who want to see reviews of the latest heat sinks for your processor check out Frosty Tech's page.
http://www.frostytech.com

This is the heatsink I currently have on my PC http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1359

Pics:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/GreyFox5/PC_Mod_with_labels_small.jpg

Large picture is here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/GreyFox5/PC_Mod_with_labels.jpg

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1323 Video Heat Sink

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1359 Processor Heat Sink

System is:
Intel Mainboard: 865 Chipset
3.2GHz Intel Processor
1GB RAM
128MB nvidia 4600 Ti Chipset
40GB Maxtor Hard Drive for O/S
120GB Maxtor Hard Drive for all those IL2 Updates and patches http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

FI_Willie
05-16-2005, 07:37 PM
I think I'll just build my next one INSIDE my keg cooler. It'll keep it cool and save on the trips to get another pint. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RAAAABAU4rZbhuZwrlud*aEwi7b4AvO6L7SrHodkuxfrAnydt jhkf2puyZ!V8xbxUF8dDtpVQgWEL4AwIaqVlmC1xpzbLgn3NOW YbrnMzR8/beercooler1.jpg

nickdanger3
05-16-2005, 07:41 PM
Or do like this guy:
http://www.markusleonhardt.de/en/oelbilder.html

If it get's hot enough, you can make donuts !

jarink
05-16-2005, 10:55 PM
Looking at GreyFox5's pic brings up a couple points.

If you have more than one hard drive, separate them. In cases like his where there's only 2 3.5" bays, I'd put an adapter kit on one drive and slide it into one of the 5.25" external bays (or scratch my own mount onto the bottom of the case). If you're daring, you could also pull the floppy drive (do you ever need it?) and use it's bay instead. This separation will allow better airflow around them.

On my case I have modified the 5.25 bay cover that would be between the "My copy of PF" and "CPU Heat Sink" labels. I cut out most of the plastic and replaced it with a screened/filtered air intake made from common window screen and a furnace air filter. That creates a good 'breezeway' straight through the case to the back fan, passing directly over the memory and CPU.

Be careful opening up holes in your PC. Try not to leave them open, since all manner of dust, bugs and who knows what (Especially if you have small children! A friend had an open expansion slot on his PC. Once, while working on it for him, I found several Legos and part of a cookie in the PC). As mentioned, window screen material makes a decent cover.

pourshot
05-16-2005, 11:06 PM
If you have more than one hard drive, separate them

My Antec case has a 80mm fan behind the HDD's and does a great job of cooling them down, It also adds to the cases air flow nicely.

But my next system will be water cooled so as to avoid as much noise as possible, fans both suck and blow sound wise http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

battler23
05-18-2005, 11:59 PM
in this part of the world any openings attract gekkos upon which you need to squirt dettol to destroy. they have killed 3 monitors and 2 power supplies so far in this house. they are also well known destroyers of plasma screens,etc. it's not unusual to hear the case fans slapping on their tails, he he he.

sparty7200
05-19-2005, 01:56 AM
If cleaning and keeping cool is everything.. whats the best way to clean and keep free of dust...i live in a dry dusty env..LOTS of dust :S and how often do i clean???
sparty

LEBillfish
05-19-2005, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by sparty7200:
If cleaning and keeping cool is everything.. whats the best way to clean and keep free of dust...i live in a dry dusty env..LOTS of dust :S and how often do i clean???
sparty

First off keep the PC off the floor....Dust falls...doh!...like we all know but most of us tend to set the pc on the floor where it does our vacuuming for us...

Next, a simple piece of gause or better still "static screening" over intakes will help catch a lot...not all but a lot....Static screen simply a plastic film with bunches of holes in it...the plastic tends to be statically charged so attracts dust......Be carful not to make your filters too good....the fans are designed to move air not create a suction to over come such restrictions.

You cannot keep your PC clean enough, so why not at least once every couple weeks just run the vacuum as you loosen the dirt by blowing on it with compressed air......Blow the compressed air over areas with the nozzle of the vacuum near...Avoid touching any of the PC's guts, however in some spots you may need to use a very soft bristled brush to loosen dirt.

Waldo.Pepper
05-19-2005, 04:30 PM
I have three hard disks in my computer.

C D But d is a raid0 drive (of two sata drives) mounted extermally on some homemade brackets. If i try to mount them in the case things get far too hot and it endangers the drives. At one time the drives when mounted in ternally got so hot they failed to function until they cooled off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

My computer looks like frankenstein, but it rocks.

Now if I could just get my damm ftp server to work behind my router, on non standard ports (because my gd isp is blocking port 21 and some others!!!!!! I'd be happy and in nerdvana!!)