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CeeTee2004
08-13-2006, 05:33 PM
I'm playing a mission where I must attack a Japanese landing force. The landing is defended by a series of wooden hull barges with crew served AAA. I have repeatedly strafed these barges with 50 cal ammo but they are never put out of action or sink. In reality these craft would be reduced to match sticks!

What gives here?

FritzGryphon
08-13-2006, 05:43 PM
Though Russia was on the opposite side of the war, it did not stop Japan from buying bulletproof delta wood.

But seriously, ships in general have simplified damage models that prevent them from being damaged by guns. Use small bombs or rockets instead.

CeeTee2004
08-13-2006, 06:16 PM
Oh damn, what a shame!http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif I wonder why the game is coded that way?

VW-IceFire
08-13-2006, 07:54 PM
Depends what "barges" you're talking about. Some of the ships in the game are very old...they have been in the game since the start. They don't have much detail in damage model. You can't even damage the gun stations like you can on the latest ships.

The Japanese landing craft are easily sunk with .50cal machine guns. Why the mission designer didn't use those...I have no idea.

Tater-SW-
08-13-2006, 08:06 PM
I think he means the sea truck (improperly caleld a fishing vessel, and also improperly rigged with goofy little fore and aft sails).

In general, all the smaller ships should be more easily damaged by MG fire, though I'm fine with them not sinking as long as they smoke a lot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/dead_dog_sm.JPG
They can be made to smoke. Others have claimed to sink them, but it is absurdly hard (and I try, and have yet to do it, but I attack properly at mast height).

tater

Zeus-cat
08-13-2006, 08:10 PM
I think you nedd at least 20mm cannons to sink the fishing boat. As has been stated, the Japanese landing craft can easily be taken out by MGs. I have used the SBDs twin 50s to destroy Japanese landing craft on strafing runs.

VW-IceFire
08-13-2006, 09:33 PM
I've found that a 3 second burst from a Beaufighter will sink the Fishing Ship. I was quite surprised the first time but it works.

Lewicide
08-14-2006, 01:47 AM
Ahhh

that evil pinja infested fishing boat can be sunk with 20mm fire, (the Beau pwns it) but not 50 cal.
The small dihatsu landing craft can be suk by .30 cals.

CeeTee2004
08-14-2006, 02:15 AM
Yes...it's the "fishing boat" that i'm talking about.

NHawk52
08-14-2006, 02:47 AM
I put one under on a single pass with a P-38 (but only once) -- but couldn't tell you if it was the guns or the cannons that did it as I was triggering both.

Kernow
08-14-2006, 05:16 AM
Cannon-fire will also take out torpedo boats. Rockets will work on larger 'barges' like the MFP craft. Things like the M-class minesweeper or 'Murgescu' can't be damaged by Soviet rockets, but Brit 60 lbers and US rockets will work. For vessels bigger than that it's bombs or torpedoes.

For real the RAF found that the better ballistic properties of the solid 25 lb AP rocket made it more useful than the HE 60 lber. At 1000 yds aiming the larger rocket was difficult, but the thinner one flew true and could travel a fair way under water, thus causing both above and below waterline damage, although there was no 'bang.' Just knocking holes through ships was enough and even 'just' cannon-fire could wreck, sink or burn-out quite large vessels.

When the FAA attacked Tirpitz the escorting fighters (all US-made, so all .50 cal only) strafed the decks to disable AA guns and kill the crews. Not everyone on a BB is protected by thick armour. 'Requiem for Battleship Yamato,' written by a survivor, also mentions how difficult it was to do anything above decks while being continually strafed by fighters.

Chuck_Older
08-14-2006, 09:58 AM
You can get a sea truck to smoke nicely with 4 .30s and 2 .50s. But it won't sink

Tater-SW-
08-14-2006, 10:52 AM
It's pretty funny that the modeller thought that tiny press of sail would move that boat faster than a crawl. Course being asian it should be lug rigged (if rigged at all for sail)

tater

ckur
08-15-2006, 01:20 AM
Maybe a bit off topic but the small sails on fishing boats are there to reduce rolling or to make the rate of roll slower, not to move the ship.

CH

JG53Frankyboy
08-15-2006, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
You can get a sea truck to smoke nicely with 4 .30s and 2 .50s. But it won't sink

well , if you are able to damage a ship, you should also be able to sink it.
its "just" a question if you have enough ammo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

if im going to hunt these fishing boats (on dogfightservers)i often use the Bf110 with the 37mm canon. works fine.

RamsteinUSA
08-15-2006, 06:17 AM
ok, if you get tired of trying to sink barges... try sinking, or destroying submerged subs.... you will have a really hard time.... and if/when you do try to repeat it...
do it with doghfights and/or coops...

try it with fighters and/or bombers..
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Tater-SW-
08-15-2006, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by ckur:
Maybe a bit off topic but the small sails on fishing boats are there to reduce rolling or to make the rate of roll slower, not to move the ship.

CH

Putting up staysails is one thing, but the sails on the sea truck in game are a cartoon of sails. Seriously, the modeller just didn't know.

Regardless, it'd be nice to see a version with the sails not set, they really look stupid at anchor with sails up.

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/SD1.jpg
The left drawing and photograph shows a gaff rigged sea truck.

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/SD2.jpg
The top right 2 are gaff rigged, bottom left don't have furled sails, so the yard is acting as a boom, or they might sprit rig it (dunno). Man, look at the mizzen on the upper right image, very tall.

tater

Chuck_Older
08-15-2006, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
You can get a sea truck to smoke nicely with 4 .30s and 2 .50s. But it won't sink

well , if you are able to damage a ship, you should also be able to sink it.
its "just" a question if you have enough ammo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not in the current version of the sim. be my guest and try

Kernow
08-15-2006, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by RamsteinUSA:
ok, if you get tired of trying to sink barges... try sinking, or destroying submerged subs.... you will have a really hard time.... and if/when you do try to repeat it...
do it with doghfights and/or coops...

try it with fighters and/or bombers..
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

I have. I wondered if a small delay might do the job of simulating depth charges, but it doesn't. Zero delay doesn't work either. I never sank a submerged one with anything that might be able to represent a DC, although I never tried any of the 'nukes.'

Came to the conclusion that the periscope you see is the only bit that actually exists in game and there is nothing below the surface to damage. A bomb that actually struck a 'scope might kill it, but a very close bomb won't.

Platypus_1.JaVA
08-16-2006, 10:00 PM
Landingcraft are about the only 'ships' to be sunk with MG's I think

Tater-SW-
08-16-2006, 10:29 PM
The funny thing is that they are too easy to sink (landing craft). In general, all ships sink too easily (and way too fast (as an average sinking time).

It'd be much cool to se them in a very damaged state, smoking, even listing/down at the bow, etc, but not sunk.

tater

hi_stik
08-17-2006, 09:21 AM
damaged ships do sometimes take on a list in this game, and go down by the bow or stern. I see it all the time.

Tater-SW-
08-17-2006, 01:04 PM
They go down and sink immediately. More often than not, ships should burn for hours, even DAYS before sinking. Yeah, yeah, some go down like Hood. Most, however, took at least hours (large ships). Merchants were also surprisingly tough, many being claimed sunk more than once.

tater

M2morris
08-17-2006, 06:32 PM
Hey, you want to sink some ships? use a Coarsair with Tiny Tim missles. You will be able to sink any-damm-thing on the water in this sim. I like practicing long-distance shots with them from high, or you can release from about 100 feet above the water and let them skim at the enemy ship because they will fly level like an anti-ship cruse missle. Takes alot of practice though.