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mike_espo
07-05-2008, 10:54 AM
just played a quick mission: 1x me-262 vs 2x avg P-51Ds. Could not even touch them!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif The P-51s out zoomed me, out climbed me.....

Wow, did not realize that the me-262 was so inferior.....

dwagener
07-05-2008, 11:01 AM
Did you have both engines running? And were they both selected so that they would respond to throttle input? Maybe some silly questions but lets eliminate the obvious.

The AI trim their planes to perfection and it only takes a couple of "taps" with .50 cal to get you smoking or flaming.

mike_espo
07-05-2008, 11:15 AM
Yep. did external and blue flame comming out of both engines.

Enforcer572005
07-05-2008, 11:18 AM
It's a question of tactics. You have to have speed built up, and don't try to manuver with them. The 262s that made that mistake got blown outta the air regularly, but those that used proper energy management were almost untouchable.

They were mainly used for bomber intercept, and were not designed for dogfighting prop jobs. They could get away from them handily though, but since they had such slow acceleration they had to have the speed built up to be effective.

Guys who tore through a fighter formation at speed and bagged one with good gunnery would take off and get away, build up speed and maybe come back or find another target, preferably a bomber.

Aviar
07-05-2008, 11:50 AM
I usually don't flame people, but if this guy is serious, he obviously doesn't know how to fly the 262.

Aviar

VW-IceFire
07-05-2008, 12:10 PM
262 is undoubtedly superior. Tactics, technique, and the pilot involved are the determining factor. Flying a WWII era jet takes a significantly different technique to fly than a prop fighter. Focus is on speed rather than turning....a turn fight will almost always favour the prop fighter in WWII.

Don't turn, wait for the jet to build speed (WWII jets accelerate very slowly), use boom and zoom techniques, and focus on your speed rather than your turning.

The 262 is definitely not inferior.

mike_espo
07-05-2008, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Aviar:
I usually don't flame people, but if this guy is serious, he obviously doesn't know how to fly the 262.

Aviar

Totally serious. This is vs AI OFFLINE, not ONLINE.

I always had a beef with this game's AI. Ever since AEP. Almost makes offline fighter vs fighter unplayable.

LEXX_Luthor
07-05-2008, 10:40 PM
Its possible that a P-51Dora might outclimb a 262 in most situations. Advantage262 is speed.

woofiedog
07-05-2008, 10:49 PM
Must agree with what has been stated. The Me-262 is a killer in the skies... but it builds up speed/energy slowly. Keeping your speed up, with a decent altitude advanage and using B&Z tactics it will rule the skies over any of the prop aircraft and take down just about anything with a few well placed shots of it's guns.

looma32
07-06-2008, 02:43 AM
what do i do when i see an american prop in a 262....

i just shoot them down,

a tactic i love to use especially online is to get lots of speed and zoom up into the sun, if the enemy is not smart he'll follow you and stall, then i will dive down and blow up the sitting duck

mike_espo
07-06-2008, 07:47 AM
Can someone please try the QMB: one 262 vs 2x P-51Ds avg pilots at 5000m and see what happens.

joeap
07-06-2008, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by mike_espo:
Can someone please try the QMB: one 262 vs 2x P-51Ds avg pilots at 5000m and see what happens.

QMB is awful especially for jets, you start out at to low speed and don't have time to build up energy before the enemy leave.

You better start from the ground, climb and build up speed and keep it there til you meet the P-51s. Then you'll pwn them everytime. Just don't slow down.

Remember, the Me-262 has poor ACCELERATION, not poor speed. Get it?

WN_Barbarossa
07-06-2008, 10:34 AM
Try again in FMB, with takeoff on both sides, and with enough distance to get speed and altitude.

mike_espo
07-06-2008, 10:40 AM
Thanks for the replys! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif That sounds like it might work Joeap. I love using the FMB. Made a training mission with the Ho-229. Cool bird! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Once I get a little practice in, Ill give online a go. Never flew the jets online....

joeap
07-06-2008, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by mike_espo:
Thanks for the replys! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif That sounds like it might work Joeap. I love using the FMB. Made a training mission with the Ho-229. Cool bird! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Once I get a little practice in, Ill give online a go. Never flew the jets online....

Good now go get em!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

VW-IceFire
07-06-2008, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by mike_espo:
Can someone please try the QMB: one 262 vs 2x P-51Ds avg pilots at 5000m and see what happens.
Two dead Mustangs.

The trick is to not keep your altitude right away and instead build as much speed as possible. I tested it...if you fight the plane from its starting speed of 200kph then at initial merge the Mustangs have out accelerated you. If you nose down and build some speed then you can do a short zoom climb and basically pass them at even altitude with 400kph IAS (which is fast at 5000m) or more. Then its just a matter of positioning. If the wignman gets you into trouble zoom away and approach from superior altitude.

If you can eliminate one of them on the first pass. If the AI chickens out then 4 MK108s only need a single hit to obliterate a Mustang and even the odds.

Still...QMB is a rough place for a jet. Low starting speed is going to hurt allot. Its better to do as the others have said and build it into a FMB mission or play a FMB mission already with jets. Suddenly you enter the mission area with speed superiority and you can keep it because nobody can keep up with you.

Enforcer572005
07-06-2008, 10:43 PM
DItto again what these guys are saying. You gotta know the limitations of your machine, and the 262 has alot of them, especially low and slow. Why do ya think allied pilots hung around their bases waiting for them to return so they could bounce them.

I assume you have learned not to keep the engines on full power all the time and to keep your speed up so they will cool etc.

You are 100+ knots faster than anything else in the sky, so use that advantage.

Ba5tard5word
07-06-2008, 11:40 PM
The Me-262 is like a drag racer--meant for flying very fast in a straight line, not for low-speed quick maneuvering. Any of the jets in the game are very slow to maneuver at low speed, and get more maneuverable as you go faster.

Try flying the He-162, it's a bit zippier at lower speeds and is pretty fast at accelerating, and it can easily get up to 700kmh or more while you're fighting prop planes that are cruising at 500. Just practice different things and you'll get the hang of them. The jets in the game are a lot different than the prop planes and will require different handling and tactics.

The jet engines take a while to build up speed, just give it some time. The jet planes also tend to lose speed quickly if you do a lot of maneuvering.

A good matchup for a beginner would be a He-162 against the Yak jet fighter, the Yak is a bit slow and will give you an advantage.

BWaltteri
07-07-2008, 01:38 AM
I started to fly the Berlin part in Army Group North Campaign yesterday. It was the first time since SWOTL that I had ever flown the 262 except for few training occasions.

I was lucky to find the trick soon, I didn't lose my speed and I always tried to keep it at 500 km/h at least and I took my time slowly changing the direction.

I took advantage of my superior firepower too, Lavochins were foolish enough to encounter me on a head on pass.

Only the American P-80's posed some bigger problems. "Wait, they shouldn't have those in here..."

Lurch1962
07-08-2008, 01:03 AM
Try the He-162 vs Beaufighters. The Heinkel is a more nimble plane than the 262, and the Beaufighters are reasonably capable, but not so much so that you'll experience only frustration. And you get to practice gunnery because those Brit birds can soak up LOTS of 20mm cannon rounds!

I like to warm up with this scenario: 1X He-162 vs 4X ace Beaufighters, in QMB, h2h (no advantage for either flight).

In general, keep speed well up there and turn gently. But when you need to, the 162 can turn fairly well for *short* periods, when you need to get angles. If other bogeys are maneuvering into position behind, don't necessarily try to down your victim in one go--it can take a surprisingly long time to deliver sufficient weight of fire. Nose down to build back all the speed you can get, then climb gently while extending.

The Beau can climb reasonably well, so after turning to face your quarry, you may have to build more speed with another shallow dive, while avoiding potential fire. Climb soon after the pass, and if you find that you have more energy than the possibly now harder-turning enemy, use that advantage to swat another down.

A series of yo-yo's executed with a more gentle hand on the elevator can work wonders.

WTE_Galway
07-08-2008, 10:34 PM
Think of it this way ... a me262 in QMB against a pair of P51 is somewhat like what actually happened to real 262's if the mustangs got through the Dora defensive cap over their airfield and caught the jets at low speed.

At least in QMB you have the option of diving away and coming back with an advantage.