PDA

View Full Version : HOLLYWOOD PRO Part 1 (pre release tester)



Gouldjg
11-04-2005, 10:02 AM
I am doing a new series of Hollywood mods

Part 1 deals with the sub and different crew models
part 2 deals with the ships
Part 3 deals with planes

This is nearly release worthy but I just want some of you folks to pass your comments on how it feels.



Get it here

http://rapidshare.de/files/7177630/Hollywood_Pro.rar.html

Contains the New living Crew model and HOLLYWOOD PRO damage tweaks.

Warning = this is a test model only so do not use unless you know how to replace files and are aware of the usual risk when swapping files.

I used a RUB installation then copied the folders onto it. I would not use Sh3 commander just yet but I am going to be releasing the settings for commander after its new release. Therefore, while we are waiting for this weekend to come, we can all beta test each other‚‚ā¨ôs work (suggestion).

To install just copy all relevant folders to each location and make back ups of those replaced.


The Living Crew mod

Quick guide

This crew model is very realistic and yet flexible enough to let people choose their own shift times. If you do not like the long micro management to get to patrol areas, just change your 3d render settings so that after 32 you pause the fatigue just like in stock. Either way, I think some will love it once they get used to it.

1. Only use combat and repair compartments when in combat or doing repairs

2. Choose to place men on shifts (set by your selves) between 4 - 16 hours but be aware that it takes longer to regain energy. i.e. A fully fatigued man will need at least 8hrs sleep.

3. Do not use WO or Navigator unless you need them as they can be used as back up officers

4. Do not change the 3d render settings to 1024 if you want to only use these setting in times less than 32 time compression.

5. This is probably the closest we will ever get to a real crew model and it also benefits the damage model.

6. Try a new campaign and test for yourself and you will see the realism and immersion factor it gives. I am still open to suggestions on things that happen within 24-hour day on a sub but I will not be doing a non-fatigue or long term fatigue model to coincide with the damage model. All I can do is post setting tweaks so that these type of models gets some results also.

7. People can still use their own personal fatigue models on the new damage settings but I will have to post different settings so that they can get see benefits in the damage models.


The Damage Model

Basically, to get longer repairs and more intensive deaths, floods and shells, the game requires a reduction in the men‚‚ā¨ôs skills as well as reduced repair compartment efficiency.

On top of this, it has been necessary to change the hull integrity values so that the sub does not just go to the death screen in 1 second flat after a critical hit. (This does not mean the sub is now a tank, as you will discover)

The zones cfg has been completely balanced to introduce a more intense flooding system. Your sub will sink slower than before but take longer to control some major floods. I had a couple of fantastic test, which tested my crew management to the limit.

You can in some scenarios, be forced to swap men around very tactically in compartments to deal with emergencies.

You can in some scenarios, be on a slow decent and hear your sub breaking up but still miraculously make it back up. Sometimes you cannot and have to watch your self go to crush.

You can now choose to ignore some minor leaks to sustain silent running.

There are loads of tweaks done to give a completely new experience.

Can I suggest people test this on the 505 missions in different subs and use different tactics to see the potentials.


I will be writing a full change log and tutorial after the weekend once I wrap it all up and make a special effects version, realistic version, Not so realistic version, Rub, IUB, Fatigue version and non fatigue version blah blah blah. Everyone wants something different

I will also be thanking all contributors on the release version which should be done Monday after the Big mods all release and I tweak so fit them.
_________________

Messervy
11-04-2005, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Gouldjg:

2. Choose to place men on shifts (set by your selves) between 4 - 16 hours but be aware that it takes longer to regain energy. i.e. A fully fatigued man will need at least 8hrs sleep.




This sounds allmost like a miracle!!!
How exactly is this achieved?

Kaleun1961
11-04-2005, 04:42 PM
Is it possible to separate the damage model from the fatigue model? I hate babysitting the crew, no matter how good a fatigue model is. In my opinion, crew rotation should be an automatic thing. Until such a time as this is possible, I opt to use the "no fatigue" option of SH3 Commander.

Fekin_Von_dEtRi
11-04-2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
Is it possible to separate the damage model from the fatigue model? I hate babysitting the crew, no matter how good a fatigue model is. In my opinion, crew rotation should be an automatic thing. Until such a time as this is possible, I opt to use the "no fatigue" option of SH3 Commander.

Do you not find you are missing a large part of the game having inhuman crew who can stay on station forever without having to be rested.
I find it makes you want to get good tonnage per patrol so you might be given more awards to the crew, then choosing who will get what award, making then have a longer stamina timespan on station, but making sure you give the right awards to the correct crew that need them.
I had a play with the no fatigue mod in SH3 Commander, but stopped using it as it took all managment of crew out of the game.

Kaleun1961
11-04-2005, 05:15 PM
I don't mind the management part where I have to select the right man for the right job. I got quickly fed up with having to rotate the crew every hour. When I was operating out of Kiel, I had to switch my engine room crew after only about 30kms of travel. What a bunch of wimps! I certainly do not miss that part. There have been various crew fatigue models along the way, about all of which I have tested and found wanting in one way or the other.

We are stuck with the current model, flawed as it is and we can try all we like to mod it, but at heart it is the same crappy engine. That's why I prefer the no fatigue option. My crew really aren't supermen, as my patrols end due to lack of torpedoes, not lack of stamina.

Awarding medals to beef up your crew is no more realistic than my method of using a no fatigue model. Giving the German Cross makes your crew into an untiring superman, how realistic is that? There are flaws in all fatigue models; but I will choose the method that least has me acting as a nanny for a boatful of tired wimps who do not have the self-discipline to put themselves to bed without the Kaleun tucking them in, giving them their nighty-night cocoa and reading them a fairy tale.

Fekin_Von_dEtRi
11-04-2005, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
I don't mind the management part where I have to select the right man for the right job. I got quickly fed up with having to rotate the crew every hour. When I was operating out of Kiel, I had to switch my engine room crew after only about 30kms of travel. What a bunch of wimps! I certainly do not miss that part. There have been various crew fatigue models along the way, about all of which I have tested and found wanting in one way or the other.

We are stuck with the current model, flawed as it is and we can try all we like to mod it, but at heart it is the same crappy engine. That's why I prefer the no fatigue option. My crew really aren't supermen, as my patrols end due to lack of torpedoes, not lack of stamina.

Awarding medals to beef up your crew is no more realistic than my method of using a no fatigue model. Giving the German Cross makes your crew into an untiring superman, how realistic is that? There are flaws in all fatigue models; but I will choose the method that least has me acting as a nanny for a boatful of tired wimps who do not have the self-discipline to put themselves to bed without the Kaleun tucking them in, giving them their nighty-night cocoa and reading them a fairy tale.

Yeah I know awarding medals that make them untiring is not realistic, but atleast if done so then you have acomplished the game in one way, ie, sinking enough tonnage to be awarded enough medals to give to your crew enough awards to make them untiring.
Like, Im on my 8th patrol, and I have been staying out long enough, hunting the better tonnage merchant ships, to earn enough renown and medals to finally make all 5 of my officers untiring, which now feels like an acomplishment doing so.
Each to there own obviously, but a few more patrols like I have been having, then I will end up having crew, like using the no fatiuge mod, but I have actually earnt it through tonnage\awards.

Kaleun1961
11-04-2005, 06:45 PM
I understand your viewpoint. My beef with fatigue is that it is so poorly implemented, so any model is goofed, no matter how it is modded. Since I can't have a proper fatigue model, I choose none. The original fatigue model is workable in the sense that I can easily manage it, it's just that it is not based on reality, so that my crew is spent after only one hour on duty. Then there is the fact that crew fatigue can be frozen in place just by using time compression.

To me, the ideal fatigue model would not even be called such. It would reflect the time spent at sea, state of general morale, combat stress and so forth. The crew would not be bagged out so much by how many hours they spent on duty, but by the general day to day conditions of U-boat life. Their overall efficiency would generally decline as the patrol wore on, but they would be more hardened by experience so this effect would be less noticeable in veteran to elite crews. However poorly they might decline, it would not get to the ridiculous state of affairs that can happen in the game where the crew is so tired they can't even run the engines.

So, I guess what I am asking for is not possible in this game, but it should be possible in a new game. But I won't hold my breath while waiting for SH4.

Gouldjg
11-05-2005, 07:47 AM
A brief explanation for you folks.

[FATIGUE_COEF]
;comp 0
RegularFactor00=0.00001
SpecificFactor00=0.00675
BadWeather0=0.000001
;comp1
RegularFactor10=0.00001
RegularFactor11=0.00001
SpecificFactor10=0.00666
SpecificFactor11=0.00634
BadWeather1=0.0000001
;comp2
RegularFactor20=0.00001
RegularFactor21=0.00001
SpecificFactor20=0.00666
SpecificFactor21=0.00631
BadWeather2=0.000000001
;comp3
RegularFactor30=0.00001
RegularFactor31=0.00001
SpecificFactor30=0.00666
SpecificFactor31=0.00222
BadWeather3=0.000001
;comp4
RegularFactor40=0.00001
RegularFactor41=0.00001
SpecificFactor40=0.00222
SpecificFactor41=0.00666
BadWeather4=0.0000000001
;comp5
RegularFactor50=0.00001
RegularFactor51=0.00001
SpecificFactor50=0.023
SpecificFactor51=0.020
BadWeather5=0.0002
;comp6
SpecificFactor60=-0.00000000000018
SpecificFactor61=-0.00000000000025
;comp7
SpecificFactor70=-0.00000000000018
SpecificFactor71=-0.00000000000025
;comp8
RegularFactor80=0.00001
RegularFactor81=0.00001
SpecificFactor80=0.023
SpecificFactor81=0.020
BadWeather8=0.0002
;comp9
RegularFactor90=0.00001
SpecificFactor90=0.020
BadWeather9=0.002
;comp10
RegularFactor100=0.00001
SpecificFactor100=0.020
BadWeather10=0.002
;comp 11
RegularFactor110=0.00001
RegularFactor111=0.00001
SpecificFactor110=0.0450
SpecificFactor111=0.0330
BadWeather11=0

There are two ways to use this model.

1. Keep your 3drender setting to 32 in the main cfg located within your documents folder i.e. sh3 and not the one inside your game directory.

That way you can warp to spots with no effects and when you get there, you can go to realtime settings.

I set my 3d render at 512 so when I travel at anything under and on 512. the fatigue model takes away. If I go to 1024, it then pauses. This helps me get out of harbours etc.

As we have now discovered many new things to prolong damage repairs and use realtime crew models. Its a matter of choice. In the Sh3 commander, I hope to provide 3 choices.

In this particular model some qualifications were dropped to a lower effect as I hated to watch men become uber x4.

The knock on effect is longer repairs which help the new damage model. Some changes were made to some of the compartments to compensate for the now lower qualifications.

The above model is really better played by those who do plot shifts on the mp and do hydro check on a regular daily basis. It is a micromanagemnt but it is very immersive.

Overall I had to use it to show new damage changes which peopl will notice when playing the game.

Like I said it is all beta version and still needs some chages before release.

When Jungmann has done his Die Hard Mod, you can expect a 100% better damage model no matter what fatigue mod you use.

You feedback is helping this work so keep it up please.

Jose.MaC
11-05-2005, 10:20 AM
Crew should have three fatigue levels:

1. Health (yes, they can be wounded, but also can get a cold that may decrease their performance).
2. Short term fatigue: they should be able to work at least 8 hours with a reasonable performance before a rotation is needed. Should be recovered after 8 hours of rest.
3. Long term fatigue: related to the decrease of moral due of time on patrol. It should be cumulative until the end of patrol, and more noticiable on green handed sailors. Should be recoverable throught sinkings, but not 100% recoverable.

This way, we should be forced to return to port at a point.

And a automated rotation sistem that we should predefine in port.

Gouldjg
11-05-2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Jose.MaC:
Crew should have three fatigue levels:

1. Health (yes, they can be wounded, but also can get a cold that may decrease their performance).
2. Short term fatigue: they should be able to work at least 8 hours with a reasonable performance before a rotation is needed. Should be recovered after 8 hours of rest.
3. Long term fatigue: related to the decrease of moral due of time on patrol. It should be cumulative until the end of patrol, and more noticiable on green handed sailors. Should be recoverable throught sinkings, but not 100% recoverable.

This way, we should be forced to return to port at a point.

And a automated rotation sistem that we should predefine in port.


1. Would be great if a random cold was added to future versions of the game.

2. That is what this mod does, but some do not like the micro management. This crew fatigue is based on a typical humans reaction to work. If I made my men work for 16 hours, they will do it but will need a full 8hr sleep. If I set them for a 4hr stags they will recover quicker after a bit of shut eye. I know a few players will try it and I was one for prefering Beerys model until it was possible to have these realtime models.

3. Agreed, I was going to select one compartment to represent long term morale. I was going to have the torpedo rooms set for a 5 week timer in the fatigue model. They would have to be locked so player could not cheat the system but it probably would have worked. However I now choose to plot every eight hours on the map nd use this for a sonar sweep and crew change. I just use the fuel to represent time to go home.

I am sure one day some future developer will pick out all outr request and make a super model. Untill then we should get a many versions out as possible to please as many as possible within the games limitations.