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View Full Version : Feature request: Fuel tank selection (reguarding the instability of USAAF aircraft in FB)



XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 12:41 AM
I was wonding if it would be possible for independent fuel tank selection, and the resultant center of gravity changes to be incorporated into a future patch or update for Il-2:Forgotten Battles, if the engine does not already have internal tank selection, and sequential draining?

I ask this, because it appears that USAAF aircraft depended heavily on draining specific tanks before entering combat, in order to improve stability. The P-40 familiarization film shown at Zeno's Warbird Driving ( http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P-40.html ) definitely shows that the P-40 should have the fuselage tank drained early in flight for improved handling. The P-51 is also known to need the top fuselage tank drained early as well.

I am also fairly certain that FB's P-47's high spin tendancy and overly tight turn may be due to an overly aft center of gravity, possibly caused by the forward and aft tanks draining at the same time. I have been remiss in my research, so I have not found a P-47 operating manual yet, so I can't verify if standard operating proceedure was to drain the aft tank before the forward tank. It does seem consistant with the operation of other USAAF aircraft however.

The USAF seems to be fairly unique among airforces, in that we extend the rang of our aircraft by placing fuel tanks in locations that compromise the aircraft's stability when they are all full, and then draining them in a specific order. Even our modern state of the art jets loose a great deal of stability and controllability when their internal tanks are full.

Additionally, several of the USAAF aircraft in the game seem to have specific tanks that get easily holed, and will drain the entire fuel system. The P-47 tends to lose its auxiliary tank with high regularity. With independent tanks, that is not a big deal. At most one loses 85 gallons of fuel; the 250 odd gallons in the front tank are still there, and that tank rarely gets holed. However, in FB, losing the auxiliary tank costs the aircraft's entire fuel load. This also seems to be a problem with the P-40 and P-39 as well, and likely will be a signifigant problem with the flying fuel tank P-51. To my understanding, allowing selectable independent fuel tanks would alleviate this problem, without sacrificing historical accuracy.

I just don't know if this can be done in the current FB engine, without significant modification. Considering how small a role USAAF fighters currently play in FB, significant modifications may not be worth it, until a later game, which has a heavier involvement of American aircraft.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 12:41 AM
I was wonding if it would be possible for independent fuel tank selection, and the resultant center of gravity changes to be incorporated into a future patch or update for Il-2:Forgotten Battles, if the engine does not already have internal tank selection, and sequential draining?

I ask this, because it appears that USAAF aircraft depended heavily on draining specific tanks before entering combat, in order to improve stability. The P-40 familiarization film shown at Zeno's Warbird Driving ( http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P-40.html ) definitely shows that the P-40 should have the fuselage tank drained early in flight for improved handling. The P-51 is also known to need the top fuselage tank drained early as well.

I am also fairly certain that FB's P-47's high spin tendancy and overly tight turn may be due to an overly aft center of gravity, possibly caused by the forward and aft tanks draining at the same time. I have been remiss in my research, so I have not found a P-47 operating manual yet, so I can't verify if standard operating proceedure was to drain the aft tank before the forward tank. It does seem consistant with the operation of other USAAF aircraft however.

The USAF seems to be fairly unique among airforces, in that we extend the rang of our aircraft by placing fuel tanks in locations that compromise the aircraft's stability when they are all full, and then draining them in a specific order. Even our modern state of the art jets loose a great deal of stability and controllability when their internal tanks are full.

Additionally, several of the USAAF aircraft in the game seem to have specific tanks that get easily holed, and will drain the entire fuel system. The P-47 tends to lose its auxiliary tank with high regularity. With independent tanks, that is not a big deal. At most one loses 85 gallons of fuel; the 250 odd gallons in the front tank are still there, and that tank rarely gets holed. However, in FB, losing the auxiliary tank costs the aircraft's entire fuel load. This also seems to be a problem with the P-40 and P-39 as well, and likely will be a signifigant problem with the flying fuel tank P-51. To my understanding, allowing selectable independent fuel tanks would alleviate this problem, without sacrificing historical accuracy.

I just don't know if this can be done in the current FB engine, without significant modification. Considering how small a role USAAF fighters currently play in FB, significant modifications may not be worth it, until a later game, which has a heavier involvement of American aircraft.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
07-10-2003, 01:35 AM
I too would like this modelled! I thought this feature very cool when I played Aces High years ago and was surprised it wasn't included in this game. It is especially critical in the P-51 model as that plane was unstable with the fuselage tank full (tend to swap ends on rough maneuvers).

XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 12:37 AM
bump

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077