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View Full Version : Water temperature as a means of escaping active sonar (not thermal layers)



Kejotikk
10-03-2004, 07:31 PM
We already know SH3 will feature thermal layers, but what about regular water temperatures? US subs during WW2 were equipped with a device called the Bathythermograph made for reading the temperature of the water at different depths. I'm not sure if the german boats were equipped with them but even if not I think the temperatures should be modeled.

You can read about it here (http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=45). Basically what it says is that during the summer when the water temperature decreases the deeper you go the active sonar will rapidly drop to the bottom and therefore staying close to the surface will make it much easier to avoid detection while in the winter when the water temperature instead increases the deeper you go the sonar will not be able to reach larger depths and thus going deep will help you avoid the active sonar.

Kejotikk
10-03-2004, 07:31 PM
We already know SH3 will feature thermal layers, but what about regular water temperatures? US subs during WW2 were equipped with a device called the Bathythermograph made for reading the temperature of the water at different depths. I'm not sure if the german boats were equipped with them but even if not I think the temperatures should be modeled.

You can read about it here (http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=45). Basically what it says is that during the summer when the water temperature decreases the deeper you go the active sonar will rapidly drop to the bottom and therefore staying close to the surface will make it much easier to avoid detection while in the winter when the water temperature instead increases the deeper you go the sonar will not be able to reach larger depths and thus going deep will help you avoid the active sonar.

hauitsme
10-03-2004, 08:47 PM
Thermal Layer: The distinct interface between surface waters and cooler, deeper waters; region between the warm upper layer (epilimnion) and the lower cold layer (hypolimnion) of the sea or lake, where temperature declines abruptly (1Cā? or more per meter)with increasing depth.

Thermo Cline: A layer of water where the temperature gradient is greater than that of the warmer layer above and the colder layer below

In other words, it is the temperature difference between 'layers'.

Sonobuoys, MAD, Towed-Array. Used against you. Can you hide better than he can find?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/hornblow.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/viking.gif

Kejotikk
10-04-2004, 05:00 AM
Just what it is that you're trying to say? Just because there is a way of countering it (towed sonar) means it shouldn't be in the game?

Also why are you explaining about thermal layers and thermo clines? I've read the article too you know. In other words, your post was utterly pointless.

Jose.MaC
10-04-2004, 06:45 AM
You've missed the videos of the game. In one of those, there is an interview with the advisor, who says especifically that german subs didn't had a bathytermographer. Nor were charts with deeps and temperatures -quite reasonable, since termal layers change along day and season!

And hauitsme is right! From our point of view, termo cline is equal to a termal layer (different gradient of temperature).

If they model the different kind of refraction according with season, will be great! And unconfortable for not very aplicated sub skippers!

Kejotikk
10-04-2004, 08:55 AM
Well of course he's right since he pulled that straight from the article I linked to in my first post.

The positive and negative refractions were exactly what it was I wanted modeled, bathythermograph or not.

Jose.MaC
10-04-2004, 02:54 PM
If they do so, there will be plenty of people asking why they were found, if they were sailing deep! But I'll love this detail. I think was mentioned in the interviews of Silent Hunter.

hauitsme
10-05-2004, 12:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kejotikk:
..We already know SH3 will feature thermal layers, but what about regular water temperatures?.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What do regular water temperatures have to do with anything? First you mention the inclusion of Thermal Layers, then you ask about 'regular' temps as if they mean something.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
..Just because there is a way of countering it (towed sonar) means it shouldn't be in the game?.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course it doesn't!! I want EVERY weapon and defense that was in use (and those that weren't too). I was just reminding people about how you can be found even with the advantages of Layers.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The positive and negative refractions were exactly what it was I wanted modeled, bathythermograph or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What do you think causes those refractions? Thermal Layers. Which even YOU stated were in the game. A bathythermograph is nothing more than a water-thermometer to measure the change in temps to know when a Layer is found. So to actively 'use' a Layer, you'll need a bathythermograph or its equivalent.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Also why are you explaining about thermal layers and thermo clines? I've read the article too you know. In other words, your post was utterly pointless. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I,ve re-read your post(again), and it still makes no sense. Sorry. Perhaps you could 'rephrase' it. Underline it. Capitalize it. Whatever. What was the question? Or was there one? Just a comment?
TELL ME!!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/crazy2.gif

Kejotikk
10-05-2004, 03:19 AM
I guess I shouldn't post at 3 am in the morning, still I explained it in my later posts. What I want modeled is the negative and positive refraction. Even if we have no bathythermograph to take advantage of it effectively i'd still like to see it in.

Oh and where did I say that this would somehow make you impossible to find? Just like the article says, for every measure there is a countermeasure.

hauitsme
10-05-2004, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kejotikk:
Oh and where did I say that this would somehow make you impossible to find? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You tell me, then we'll both know!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Where did that come from?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

CB..
10-06-2004, 04:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
Of course it doesn't!! I want EVERY weapon and defense that was in use (and those that weren't too). I was just reminding people about how you can be found even with the advantages of Layers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

here perhaps....