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View Full Version : Macchi C.202 - different versions...



Rickustyit
09-30-2006, 11:22 AM
Hi eveyrbody,
does anybody know what are the "real" differences between a MC.202 "Folgore" Serie VIII with a Serie XII in the game?
As far as I know they have the same armament (2x12,7mm and 2x7,7mm), compared with the Serie III wich has only 2x12,7mm guns.
Why did they insert two versions that are so close to each others?

Are they somehow heavier than the Serie III and then less manouvrable? I find them instead very agile and reponsive...

Cheers

tigertalon
09-30-2006, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Rickustyit:
I find them instead very agile and reponsive...
Cheers

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Rickustyit
09-30-2006, 11:52 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

hehe, yeah the C.202 still behaves un-normally, with weird roll rate (especially at moderate to high speed) and a very strong tendency to get into a spin fairly easily. (and once you get into one, just start to pray)

I wrote it wrong: I intended to say that the C.202 Serie VIII and Serie XII seems as agile as the Serie III.
So I was wondering: why the need to add a Serie XII? What did it have compared to a Serie VIII? They really seem identical.
Anobody knows? I couldn't get a clue on my references books.

Cheers

Nimits
09-30-2006, 11:57 PM
Sometimes, there were manufacturing differences between versions that made the planes more reliable or cheaper or easier to maintain or etc., but did not result in significant performance differences. That might be what happened here (though I admittedly have very limited knowledge of Italian aircraft).

mortoma1958
10-01-2006, 08:48 AM
I have no idea why they put in two versions that may as well be the same aircraft. They feel the same, fly the same, shoot the same and look the same except for different skins.

As far as flying them, much has been written by many expressing disenchantment with the flight model handling. I personally have never had trouble flying it. The roll may be slightly slow but overall handling, especially high speed is great IMHO!!! It has a nice turn, ( as good as published turn rate ) and will not stall or spin if you don't pull too hard. People continue to yank the stick too hard and suddenly. So what do they expect??? They need to simply stop doing that. If you tell a doctor "it hurts when I do this", he will tell you to simply stop doing that!! My advice regarding the 202 FM is the same!!!

It does have a stall/wing drop that comes on less predictably than many other planes but learn to fly her and you will get used to that.

Also people complain of the gun weakness, but the guns are what they are. I flew a campaign in it and the MC200 ( offline ) and shot down 120 planes of all descriptions. The hardest planes for me to down were LaGGs and Russian Hurricanes. God were they hard to kill!! But yet I got about 10 each of those. My advice to these people is to simply practice your shooting. You can kill almost any plane with it's guns if you know what you're doing. If you just can't become a good shot no matter how hard you practice, then fly something with bigger guns. It's all plain and simple.

JG53Frankyboy
10-01-2006, 09:45 AM
the later one has an armoured windshield.
you can see the difference in the two 3D models.

if this armoured windshiled is also calculated in the damage model of the plane, i dont know.

VW-IceFire
10-01-2006, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
I have no idea why they put in two versions that may as well be the same aircraft. They feel the same, fly the same, shoot the same and look the same except for different skins.

As far as flying them, much has been written by many expressing disenchantment with the flight model handling. I personally have never had trouble flying it. The roll may be slightly slow but overall handling, especially high speed is great IMHO!!! It has a nice turn, ( as good as published turn rate ) and will not stall or spin if you don't pull too hard. People continue to yank the stick too hard and suddenly. So what do they expect??? They need to simply stop doing that. If you tell a doctor "it hurts when I do this", he will tell you to simply stop doing that!! My advice regarding the 202 FM is the same!!!

It does have a stall/wing drop that comes on less predictably than many other planes but learn to fly her and you will get used to that.

Also people complain of the gun weakness, but the guns are what they are. I flew a campaign in it and the MC200 ( offline ) and shot down 120 planes of all descriptions. The hardest planes for me to down were LaGGs and Russian Hurricanes. God were they hard to kill!! But yet I got about 10 each of those. My advice to these people is to simply practice your shooting. You can kill almost any plane with it's guns if you know what you're doing. If you just can't become a good shot no matter how hard you practice, then fly something with bigger guns. It's all plain and simple.
All fair and good offline but online those guns are useless. Every tried to shoot down a P-47 or a Spitfire flown by a good pilot who knows your there? Chances are that you're entire ammo load with go into that Thunderbolt with little effect or the Spitfire will be able to avoid most of your shots.

I think online I can claim two Spitfires with extreme high angle deflection shots into the engine compartment causing alot of smoke and then fire for a pilot kill. These guys are really aweful in my opinion...I try and take pride in being able to shoot effectively and kill whatevers infront but these make it hard.

Just for comparisons sake...I'd rather fly the Ki-61-Ko with the same armament (but with Japanese machine guns). I've shot down far more Spitfire V's online with that than with the Breda machine guns.

tigertalon
10-01-2006, 12:35 PM
Agreed with that Ice! Once I attacked already damaged early single seater IL2 online in my MC200 (2x12,7mm breda safat). Ok, I know IL2 is a flying tank, yet still I expanded entire ammo (700 pieces) into this plane, hitting with 18% of bullets. This is about 126 bullets. I caused NO additional visible damage to the plane, not even a fuel or oil leak. Nothing that was not there before I attacked. And plane already had some serious wing damage. Plus I did try to aim for oil cooler and wingtip ailerons. He must have laughed at me and thought: "What a wetawd!"

Mortoma, try to mix up your Mc202 online here and then, with Hurricanes, Yaks, and God forbid, spitVs. U might change your oppinion, as for offline I can toy with spitVIIIs in my Bf109E http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

EJGrOst_Caspar
10-01-2006, 02:31 PM
Beside this old Breda bullet discussion... I was always thinking, the following armament was installed:

Mc202 III -> 2x 12,7mm (nose)
Mc202 VII -> 2x 12,7mm (nose) + 2x 7,7mm (wings)
Mc202 XII -> 2x 12,7mm (nose) + 2x 12,7mm (wings)

Mc205 I -> 2x 12,7mm (nose) + 2x 12,7mm (wings)
Mc205 III -> 2x 12,7mm (nose) + 2x 151/20mm (wings)


Would anyone correct me?

tigertalon
10-01-2006, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by EJGrOst_Caspar:
Beside this old Breda bullet discussion... I was always thinking, the following armament was installed:

Mc202 III -> 2x 12,7mm (nose)
Mc202 VII -> 2x 12,7mm (nose) + 2x 7,7mm (wings)
Mc202 XII -> 2x 12,7mm (nose) + 2x 7,7mm (wings)

Mc205 I -> 2x 12,7mm (nose) + 2x 7,7mm (wings)
Mc205 III -> 2x 12,7mm (nose) + 2x 151/20mm (wings)


Would anyone correct me?

Corrected! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

mortoma1958
10-01-2006, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
Agreed with that Ice! Once I attacked already damaged early single seater IL2 online in my MC200 (2x12,7mm breda safat). Ok, I know IL2 is a flying tank, yet still I expanded entire ammo (700 pieces) into this plane, hitting with 18% of bullets. This is about 126 bullets. I caused NO additional visible damage to the plane, not even a fuel or oil leak. Nothing that was not there before I attacked. And plane already had some serious wing damage. Plus I did try to aim for oil cooler and wingtip ailerons. He must have laughed at me and thought: "What a wetawd!"

Mortoma, try to mix up your Mc202 online here and then, with Hurricanes, Yaks, and God forbid, spitVs. U might change your oppinion, as for offline I can toy with spitVIIIs in my Bf109E http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Yes, there is some difference between flying offline and on. But not a huge bunch. I have flown online every now and then but I must confess I never flew the Mcs. As for IL2, I downed a bunch in my offline play and they really flew defensively well for AI. Maybe a human pilot would be better at avoiding?? But you can kill IL2s if you hit them in the right spots. If you chew up the ends of the wings they lose ailerons. Then you have them. I got plenty of IL2 radiator leaks flying both 200 and 202s. Yea probably human pilots are harder to hit, but I never thought they were that much harder.

I have a slow PC so if I play online, my PC slows the game down for eveybody else and causes lag. I don't like to ruin it for anybody else so I'm waiting for a more powerful PC in the near future. Most online scenarios have too many clouds, ground objects and AAA, which slows my PC too much. If my PC slows, then it affects all others on the server, not fair to them.

mortoma1958
10-01-2006, 11:48 PM
One thing you guys might try is to fly offline in QMB a little and see if you get more kills than you do online. If you do, then I will shut up. But shutting up will be a first for me since I signed up to these forums in Jan. 2002!!

Rickustyit
10-02-2006, 12:32 AM
Well, I never fly online unfortunately, as my **** connection won't be good enough.
In the offline mode though, I quite always fly the C.202, sometime the C.200 and C.205 and in the spare time the other planes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I have found out that especially the 202 has a very good turning time; if you're good at controlling the plane just in the time before it stalls (when the airplane tends to tremble and shakes like hell) you can stay behind many warplanes with ease.
In the 205 it's not that different , maybe a bit less, but it's still a good turner.
What I find quite weird though, is the roll rate. If you're flying very slow it's somehow acceptable; if you're running past the 450/500 km/h or more the planes behaves just like trucks...

As for the armament: what I hate the most about the Breda SAFAT are their bullets' trajectories. They start to fall down very early compared to other guns, and their not great muzzle speed and low rate of fire make them very weak.
In able to send many bullets into an enemy pilot in front of you, you need to get behind him for quite a long time and fire deflection shots.

Also... bullets of the 12,7mm Breda quite never disappear in the Italian planes. You see them fall down and down and hit the water many meters away from you, while in most other weapons, they "disappear" after some hundreds of meters.
Also... Their tracers' traces http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif are so bright compared to other tracers in the game. You can't actually see well when firing. In the German planes for example, the "wake" of the tracers are more similiar to a "grey" color, while in the Breda they are bright white... I really don't know how it was in the reality...

So, the differences between the VII and the XII is just a tiny windshield? I thought there was more than that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Cheers