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Kaleun1961
09-14-2005, 08:46 PM
I'm just stumped trying to figure out how this game calculates renown. According to the SH3 Community Manual, renown is calculated this way:

base ship renown value (see below) * ( (0.75 * realism %) + 0.25 ).

I just got back from a patrol which gave me
2225.3 renown, having played at 63%. The unmodified renown is 3100, based on 800 for reaching patrol grid, 24 hours there and docking at home port and 2300 for sinking ships. I just can't see how 3100 becomes 2225.3 based on the above formula.

paulhager
09-15-2005, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
I'm just stumped trying to figure out how this game calculates renown. According to the SH3 Community Manual, renown is calculated this way:

base ship renown value (see below) * ( (0.75 * realism %) + 0.25 ).

I just got back from a patrol which gave me
2225.3 renown, having played at 63%. The unmodified renown is 3100, based on 800 for reaching patrol grid, 24 hours there and docking at home port and 2300 for sinking ships. I just can't see how 3100 becomes 2225.3 based on the above formula.

Tried to respond to this last night and then we lost our cable.

If you check your math you'll find that 2225.3 is just under 72% of 3100. The formula, with your input, gives just over 72%. Obviously the two numbers SHOULD agree but they're close enough that I suspect one of the values you gave is off. In any case, there doesn't appear to be a problem.

lecek
09-15-2005, 10:21 AM
Using your numbers I get that you should have a renown of 2239.75. As Paulhagar says that is very close.

I have calculated renown for several missions and most of the time I get the exactly correct values. Once I was off a few.

I think you made a mistake adding up the renown for all those vessals. If you really want to know you can post a list of all the ships you sank. (And aircraft!)

BTW the difference between the renown you got and the renown you expected is exactly 20 (3080 vs 3100). That would be like adding a trawler or tugboat twice instead of once or an aircraft.

Kaleun1961
09-15-2005, 04:51 PM
Here's my patrol log:

Log Entry 0]
Type=0
EntryText=Patrol 5|U-45, 2nd Flotilla|Left at: April 12, 1940, 08:33|From: Wilhelmshaven|Mission Orders: Patrol grid AN23
Date=19400412
Time=833
Categ=0

[Log Entry 1]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AF 54|Fiji Light Cruiser, 10725 tons
EntryTitle=April 16, 1940, 03:05
Date=19400416
Time=305
Categ=0

[Log Entry 2]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AF 54|Troop Transport, 8009 tons
EntryTitle=April 16, 1940, 03:11
Date=19400416
Time=311
Categ=0

[Log Entry 3]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AF 54|Troop Transport, 8010 tons
EntryTitle=April 16, 1940, 03:18
Date=19400416
Time=318
Categ=0

[Log Entry 4]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AF 83|Tribal Destroyer, 1850 tons
EntryTitle=April 17, 1940, 17:38
Date=19400417
Time=1738
Categ=0

[Log Entry 5]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AF 83|Troop Transport, 8011 tons
EntryTitle=April 17, 1940, 17:52
Date=19400417
Time=1752
Categ=0

[Log Entry 6]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AN 15|Trawler, 101 tons
EntryTitle=April 27, 1940, 13:08
Date=19400427
Time=1308
Categ=0

[Log Entry 7]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AM 36|Trawler, 98 tons
EntryTitle=April 27, 1940, 22:40
Date=19400427
Time=2240
Categ=0

[Log Entry 8]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AM 36|Coastal Merchant, 1519 tons
EntryTitle=April 28, 1940, 06:50
Date=19400428
Time=650
Categ=0

[Log Entry 9]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AM 36|Coastal Merchant, 1520 tons
EntryTitle=April 28, 1940, 07:29
Date=19400428
Time=729
Categ=0

[Log Entry 10]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AN 13|C3 Cargo, 4951 tons
EntryTitle=April 28, 1940, 21:46
Date=19400428
Time=2146
Categ=0

[Log Entry 11]
Type=0
EntryText=Ship sunk!|Grid AN 14|Tribal Destroyer, 1850 tons
EntryTitle=April 29, 1940, 04:15
Date=19400429
Time=415
Categ=0

[Log Entry 12]
Type=0
EntryText=Patrol results|Crew losses: 0|Ships sunk: 11|Aircraft destroyed: 0|Patrol tonage: 46644 tons
Date=19400501
Time=1424
Categ=0

By my calcualtions:

1 Fiji 430
2 TT's 780
1 Tribal 140
1 TT 390
2 Trawlers 60
2 CM's 120
1 C3 240
1 Tribal 140

Ships: 2300
Patrol: 800

This gives me a total of 3100 renown as the base value for calculations, 2300 from sinkings and 800 for completing patrol requirements. I got the renown values for the ships from the SH3 Wiki. I did not destroy any aircraft. My difficulty setting was 63%.

I get the same calculation as you guys get. I'm not going to lose any sleep over this; I just think that the numbers, being precise, should agree.

The only other factor that I think may not be accounted for is the possibility that the game factors hull integrity into the equation. I took some minor damage when scraping the bottom in shallow water. When I got back to port, according to my patrol report I had hull integrity of 97.909775. I am clueless as to what mathematical relationship this would have to the final calculation. Anybody want to give that a try?

I guess this is another project for me, to check the calculations after a patrol with 100% hull integrity.

Thanks everybody for your comments.

FI-Aflak
09-15-2005, 07:54 PM
I got your modified renown to be 2239.75.

rounding could account for the difference. If it says you are at 63% but you are really at 62.5%, your renown would come out to 2228.13. Not enough difference to be confusing.

Gunnersman
09-15-2005, 08:16 PM
Where do you go to find the numbers?

lecek
09-15-2005, 08:16 PM
Yea my calculations agree with you, and I double checked some renown values right from the sh3 config files.

You got short changed exactly 20 un-modified renown points. This could be a penalty for damage, I have an idea for a test I will get back to you tomorow.

Kaleun1961
09-15-2005, 08:26 PM
I just got back from a patrol at 63%, no damage. My unmodified renown was 2330, the renown awarded was 1676.20. Calculating according to the formula gives the figure 1683.425, which is quite close to the awarded 1676.2.

My next patrol I am going to change the settings and see what I come out with, assuming of course that I survive.

lecek
09-15-2005, 08:44 PM
On that last mission you recieved a penalty of exactly 10 unmodified renown.

What did you kill two of in the first mission that you only got one of in the second mission.

I suspect the renown value is out by ten.

Kaleun1961
09-15-2005, 08:48 PM
Trawlers. I sank two in the first mission, one in the second. The SH3 Wiki says they are worth 30, but now that I am thinking about it, it seems that when viewing the recognition manual with the vulnerability mod which lists the renown for the ships, the trawler is worth 20. That might be the marginal error, counting trawlers as 30 instead of 20.

lecek
09-15-2005, 08:51 PM
Hey I just noticed the tonnage values for your coastal merchants are off. They are usually in the high 1900's to low 2000's in tonnages not 1500's like your log says.

Maybee the file has been modified with a mod or manually or something.

Check the file for that ship it is in:

program files/ubisoft/SilentHunterIII/data/sea/NKSQ_/NKSQ_.cfg

check that the renown value isn't changed to 50.

lecek
09-15-2005, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
Trawlers. I sank two in the first mission, one in the second. The SH3 Wiki says they are worth 30, but now that I am thinking about it, it seems that when viewing the recognition manual with the vulnerability mod which lists the renown for the ships, the trawler is worth 20. That might be the marginal error, counting trawlers as 30 instead of 20.

Hmm could be, I just checked the SH3 config files, it shows a renown of 20 itself. But I am not 100% sure I am viewing the trawler file.

Kaleun1961
09-15-2005, 08:57 PM
I'm using Real U-boat as my main mod. I have the merchant vulnerability mod as well; I believe that one randomizes tonnage. Not sure about the coastal merchants, I'll have to check on that, thanks.

Kaleun1961
09-15-2005, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by lecek:
Hey I just noticed the tonnage values for your coastal merchants are off. They are usually in the high 1900's to low 2000's in tonnages not 1500's like your log says.

Maybee the file has been modified with a mod or manually or something.

Check the file for that ship it is in:

program files/ubisoft/SilentHunterIII/data/sea/NKSQ_/NKSQ_.cfg

check that the renown value isn't changed to 50.

Here is my copy of that file. What errors do you see in it and what changes should I make to it?

[Unit]
ClassName=KSQ
UnitType=102
MaxSpeed=9
Length=78.5
Width=10.7
Mast=22.7
Draft=6.9
Displacement=1468
RenownAwarded=60

[2DCompartments]
UnitPos=87,0,340,27
NbOfComp=4
Name1=Propulsion
Area1=103,0,30,18
Name2=Keel
Area2=166,0,187,10
Name3=Engines Room
Area3=214,13,71,18
Name4=Fuel Bunkers
Area4=287,13,30,18

lecek
09-15-2005, 09:31 PM
Your copy of that file is fine.

Well at least the renown values are.

OK so I think it is the trawler that is actually at 20 and not 30.

It looks like the Wiki files are wrong. One way to check is check patrols where you didn't sink a trawler and see if renown awarded is correct. Also check for a patrol where you sank 3 and see if you are awarded 30 less unmodified renown.

Kaleun1961
09-15-2005, 10:22 PM
Yup, it's confirmed, the Wiki value for the unarmed trawler is incorrect. It is 20, not 30. The armed trawler should be 30, reflecting the fact that it is armed, after all.

Now, I am hoping somebody out there with mathematical skills will be able to provide the formula for modifying the base values according to difficulty settings, so that the end renown awarded in the game comes out as if you played at 100%.

For example, a C3 is worth 240 points. If a person plays at 60%, it would be work out according to the formula:

base ship value * [{0.75*difficulty%} + 0.25].

C3@240 played at 60% = 168.

How do I modify the base value, 240, so that at 60% the end result is the same as if difficulty was set at 100%? I hope I am making myself clear.

lecek
09-15-2005, 11:06 PM
Yup you are clear.

Two ways you can go about it.

One way is to alter the reality values for each reality setting.

What I mean is that you can make everying worth only 1% and unlimited torps worth 94% (or whatever is left to add to a hundred.) This won't give you exactly 100% values but you can get close.

However if you want to do that conversion as you said instead the math is simple.

renown value of ship / 0.7225 (for 63% reality)

so a C3 would be set to 240/0.7225 = 332.18 = 332.

But why stop there, you can just make those ships any value you want. Say 1000 renown for a trawler. Real easy.

I recomend you don't do that though. Of course it is your game and you can do what you want. But I take it as my reward for playing at 100% which is what I play at.

Though I have considered changeing precentage values so that turning on the external camera is only a 1% hit. (instead of the current 8) I think the event camera is only a 3% hit to begin with.

lecek
09-15-2005, 11:12 PM
One more thing, I check out the SH3 config files and I have found out that the Tug boat is 30 renown.

I have made the required changes to the comunity manual page.

Kaleun1961
09-15-2005, 11:27 PM
Thanks for the info, Lecek. It's very useful. The reason I want to change the base values is so that I do not get punished just for using things like the camera in a non-cheating way. I don't use the external views to dodge DC's for example. It might also be useful for those who will never get to 100% but would like to enjoy the promotions, medals and so forth.

Are you in charge of the SH3 Wiki? That is a great resource; I recommend it to new players when I give them advice in the forum.

lecek
09-16-2005, 07:47 AM
The big thing for promotions and medals is tonnage not renown.

I am not in charge or Wiki, I just contribute there. For example I did all the merchant week spots and sub crush depths.

I am going to update the torpedo door section soon.

Kaleun1961
09-16-2005, 10:28 AM
I went through all the relevant sections late last night and altered all the base renown values of the ships and aircraft and altered them according to my level of play, so that when the game calculates renown at the end of the patrol, it will do so as if I were playing at 100%. I know about the tonnage for medals and promotions; I just want to get to my upgrades and such more quickly. Now I just remembered that I have to alter the patrol renown files as well.

I didn't go crazy while editing, nothing outrageous like giving a trawler a value of 1000. I adjusted all values by a factor of 0.7 to reflect playing at 60%. For example, a C3 is now worth 343 renown; thus at the end of my patrol I will be rewarded with 240, as if I were playing at 100%. Of course, when I play at 100% I will have to convert them back to original values.

Thanks for your help with the numbers, Lecek. I wanted to figure this out for myself and for the other members who want to play at less than 100% but still have some prospects of advancing in their career and getting their upgrades more quickly. Some poor novice playing at 25% will take forever to get from a type II to a type VII at that rate.

How do you go about submitting an article or contributing to the Wiki?

lecek
09-16-2005, 02:45 PM
Glad I could help.

All you need to do to contribute to Wiki is click one of the edit buttons. Half the time I am not logged in.