PDA

View Full Version : Oleg, could smaller be better?



XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 03:55 PM
Oleg. In the past you've said the flames of the muzzel flash will stay.

Could we compromise and make them smaller?

Using the P-51 and P-47 as examples, "scale" wise the "muzzel flash flames" are about 6 to 8 feet long. Thats considering the distance from the leading edge of the wing to the tip of the spinner. Very "non-scale"

So if we can't have them removed, perhaps we could make them a more realistic size. Possible? Not possible?

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 03:55 PM
Oleg. In the past you've said the flames of the muzzel flash will stay.

Could we compromise and make them smaller?

Using the P-51 and P-47 as examples, "scale" wise the "muzzel flash flames" are about 6 to 8 feet long. Thats considering the distance from the leading edge of the wing to the tip of the spinner. Very "non-scale"

So if we can't have them removed, perhaps we could make them a more realistic size. Possible? Not possible?

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 11:01 PM
I'll post these as examples.

http://home.alltel.net/dhasso/Pics/P47SM.gif


http://home.alltel.net/dhasso/Pics/P51SM.gif


I could post pics of another dozen or more FB ac, but these demonstrate the muzzle flash just fine.

As we all know, the effect is unrealistically modeled and in the case of ac that are equipped with nose guns the flash can be absolutely blinding. The 109's with cannon are prime examples. I hate to think what the upcoming P-38 will be like.

Anyway, as suggested above maybe a compromised could be reached where the effect is present, but toned down as I've shown in the pic's.

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 11:26 PM
bump

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/291003-01anoseart_us_08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 11:37 PM
I think it stems from Il2 days, I think the muzzle flash was pretty much designed for the Il2 models, as i've seen pics of il2s with the same sort of muzzle flash



I think

<marquee>Fighting Irish: Death from the pub</marquee>

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 11:43 PM
I seem to recall Oleg commenting on this some time ago....

Basically, at the moment there are multi-purpose muzzle flashes that are the best compromise for all the possible lighting conditions (ie. night day etc....).



"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 12:36 AM
I would imagine that you'd see the small flashes just fine during night missions.

In comparison, I have no problem seeing the dim nav lights of another plane from quite a distance off. If I can see those, then muzzle flashes, the samller ones that is, should be plainly visible. Even though they would be smaller, they'd probably be 10 times brighter then the nav lights.

When the current guns are fired from a distance, you don't see much of them anyway. The tracers however are visible for miles and miles. Their effects are realistic and look great.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 01:02 PM
bump

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 05:05 PM
Whats the big deal about having bright flashes at night anyway?

There aren't that many night mission played in FB, besides even during the war, very little air to air stuff took took place, ""at least in comparison to day time activities"".

Sure, Lancs flew at night, and the Germans sent some twin engine, radar equiped planes up after them, the Russians had the night whitch's and in the Pacific, the U.S. Navy equiped some aircraft with radar to chase Japaneses planes that thought they were saver flying at night.

Still, the majority of the action took place during daylight hours. Seems that way to me anyways.

So why must we have these huge flames coming from the aircraft, that literally blind the pilot from seeing what he's aiming at. Seems kind of silly not to fix it, especially based on what I see in those pictures.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 05:23 PM
Like the porked pilot view in the Fw190, the muzzle flashes won't be fixed.

Good luck in your attempt though.



http://www.thundercycle.com/photos/dropdead2.gif



"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:19 PM
I've really never posted here before, reading the posts have been good enough. But I have to chime in on this one.

I'am I correct in assuming that the reason us 109 piolts are totally blinded by the flash in the middle of the day is so that it will look more realistic at night?

No insult intended, but that's the silliest excuse I ever heard. There's got to be another explanation as well as a way to change it.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 11:41 PM
I was thinking the other day that it's probably down to the Me 262 because if the flashes weren't so damn big in that plane it would be an even bigger pest online than it is at the moment. So 262 flyers wouldn't whine all muzzle flashes were made large, the 262 having 4 Mk 108's just got the worst deal (on purpose /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ).

I know this isn't really the case because the 262 wasn't always flyable, if I remember correctly, it's just a silly thought I was having /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I however, never fly the 262 because I can never see where my shots land so I can never judge a deflection, it's almost the only plane I have this problem with.

But as mentioned above the FW 190 view is a mess and Oleg swore he would never change it so forget even trying to get the muzzle flashes fixed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 07:53 PM
Stuborn!

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:44 PM
Firing a gun (there are many footages of modern wars) of whatever caliber (7.62mm-37mm) in broad daylight will almost never produce a flash (which is in fact great number of powder burning particles). In best case, there would be some smoke (bigger caliber, more smoke). But I have seen on TV news a 7.62mm Kalasnikov rifle (footage from some war) firing whole clip in the night. Muzzle flash was about half a meter long, which, although it's length depends to some degree on camera used, gives you idea of proportions.
Muzzle flash shape, direction, and size depend on many factors: caliber, cartridge load, type of gun powder used, barrel length, type of muzzle flash/recoil/sound suppressors if any, etc. Kalashnikov's muzzle flash in the night is directed upwards at approx 30 degrees and to the right. Even not so, even if it goes perfectly straight, shooter is at least distracted by it.
Shooting airplane mounted weapons has one more factor: speed of air passing around aircraft. This stream of wind is of great influence, because of twosome obvious reasons:
-it shortens (at very high speed eliminates) muzzle flash and smoke which are protruding from guns, pushing them back-that's where the gun burns along the wings come from.
-It cools gases and burning particles (and in the same time speeds up burning so they last shorter reaching shorter distance while they are visible).


Personally, I would like if there would't be any flashes at all, just smoke (like A-10 produces when firing GAU-8), Muzzle flashes should become more and more visible as the light diminishes at sunset and the day turns into night.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:06 PM
i agree,as most of the missions are during day,we should have smoke,not flash.

and i don't think seeing tracers at 20km is realistic either...


but at least smaller would be better /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 10:18 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Agreed!

Tracers were debated to no result. Their visibility distances are way overdone.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 10:33 PM
S!


Bump

Lowering the flame from the guns might help lag and frame rates too !

Braveheart's William Wallace said it best:
"I see a whole army of my countrymen, here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What will you do without freedom? Will you fight? Fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live, at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing, to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM!"