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InCiSiOn89
10-23-2005, 10:33 AM
For somereason trying to manuever and making a quick turn i always stall out and have to bail out and everytime i am behind an enemy they do same move and get out of my sight fine.....i dunno wat i am doing wrong any idea or suggestions? :-)

Archangel2980
10-23-2005, 10:37 AM
Fly your plane like she were a women be gentle.
lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
10-23-2005, 10:38 AM
You are being too hard on the controls or your stick settings are wrong. Watch out for buffeting from the aircraft which warns you of a stall. Other than that, it just comes with experience.

Stall recovery? Most planes in 4.02 I tried just required me to let go of the stick for a few seconds to allow the nose to 'bobble' it's way back to centre...and recover the stall.

The age old method (which used to have to be employed a lot) was

a. Stick gently but firmly full forward.
b. Throttle down.
c. Full rudder opposite to spin direction.

Ta,
Norris

Freelancer-1
10-23-2005, 11:08 AM
As far as I can tell, except for the P-39/400/63, you can use the ingame "magic stall recovery technique". Let go of the stick, cut the throttle and the game engine will take care of the rest for you.

Udidtoo
10-23-2005, 11:34 AM
They are correct InCiSiOn89 . Trying to fight a stall isn't the thing to do. Simply let go of the stick and don't touch the rudder and you'll be fine.

I'm more than 1/2 way through the list of flyables and so far the Beaufighter and B-25 are the only 2 that won't self-recover. Every other one down to the MustangmkIII will recover if you touch nothing, all others will recover within no more than 5 complete evolutions. Some of the smaller and lighter ones will do it in less than 2 full turns. I've been testing going straight down the list and so far it seems to be 7 of 10 tries so if you don't interfere by touching anything the odds are in your favor unless your under 250 or 300 ft.

Archangel2980
10-23-2005, 12:03 PM
When you think about it isn't hard to model stalls when there's so many variables that would be happening in real time.

p-11.cAce
10-23-2005, 12:04 PM
Every other one down to the MustangmkIII will recover if you touch nothing, all others will recover within no more than 5 complete evolutions. Some of the smaller and lighter ones will do it in less than 2 full turns. I've been testing going straight down the list and so far it seems to be 7 of 10 tries so if you don't interfere by touching anything

WHICH IS RIDICULOUS!!! Stall/Spin recovery is a major requirment for all flying - ultralight or 2000 hp fighter - and simply letting go of the stick to recover works only in Cessnas (sometimes). There are many accounts written by WWII pilots of "spinning off" after getting careless chasing an enemy or target fixating. The "age old" method given above SHOULD have to be used as it is basic stall/spin recovery procedure.

dieg777
10-23-2005, 01:09 PM
see this thread and try the suggested settings - they helped me out

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=144;t=001291 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=001291)

good luck

Taylortony
10-23-2005, 01:52 PM
keep your speed up. if it drops then drop some flap. that'll keep you airborne, hell i have been known to fight in a turn with full flaps dangling out and win, the only loss is it kills your speed.......

InCiSiOn89
10-24-2005, 07:14 AM
Thanks everyone ill try just letting go of stick and bring down speed. It just kind of annoied me to try to make a quick manaever when i am being shot at and always spinn out and the enemy does exact same thing and they dont stall or spin out. :-/ My stick settins are 1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100 for both pitch and roll and yaw is default. Thats the settings for begginers from airwarfare.com. That was my main problem along with getting my sight straight when i start to fire. Anyone know what that bubble means following the crosshair? how do u use it?


I just can not seem to shake anyone without commiting suicide :-P

Also how i know kinda how convergence works but what are good settings for ur convergence?

Thanks for everyone's HELP!!! :-)

InCiSiOn89
10-24-2005, 03:32 PM
?

NorrisMcWhirter
10-24-2005, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Every other one down to the MustangmkIII will recover if you touch nothing, all others will recover within no more than 5 complete evolutions. Some of the smaller and lighter ones will do it in less than 2 full turns. I've been testing going straight down the list and so far it seems to be 7 of 10 tries so if you don't interfere by touching anything

WHICH IS RIDICULOUS!!! Stall/Spin recovery is a major requirment for all flying - ultralight or 2000 hp fighter - and simply letting go of the stick to recover works only in Cessnas (sometimes). There are many accounts written by WWII pilots of "spinning off" after getting careless chasing an enemy or target fixating. The "age old" method given above SHOULD have to be used as it is basic stall/spin recovery procedure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've already crossed out the bit in Geoffrey Wellum's 'First Light' where he talks of the RAF instructors teaching him stall recovery.

Well, Oleg must know better....he's modelled it, right?

I've tried a few more planes out, too. All of them just required me to let go off the stick why the 'gyro modelling' pulled the nose back to centre so as to correct the spin.

You'd have thought that someone would have checked for this discrepancy what with the patch taking so long to come out and all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

Stigler_9_JG52
10-24-2005, 03:48 PM
For those of you for whom this isn't obvious...

There is a big problem when there are two distinctly different ways to solve a problem like a stall: the "game" way to do it and the way a real pilot with real physics would do it.

This is a much bigger problem than the more minute differences between how many degrees / second a plane could turn, how much damage one .50 or 20mm shell should do, etc. These quibbles are usually within some bounds of reality, and we quibble over the exact amount.

But, when how you recover from a spin is so markedly different than how you should recover from a spin... doesn't that scream poor flight modeling to you???

Xiolablu3
10-24-2005, 04:16 PM
Hi Incision, good game the other night http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You should not be doing those manouvres that low to the ground really (I know you have to sometimes)

Get higher and faster if you can, then if you do stall you can recover and get away.

Its just a case of practise m8, I had to relearn all of this too when I recently got a joystick for the first time.

I used to fly with keyboard and got so used to it that I could do pretty well. (It was just a case of tapping the key faster for a sharper turn, slower for a shallower turn)

Once I got a joystick I was being too heavy handed and had to discover the limits of the planes.

After a while you will be able to tell when the plane is on the edge of a stall and lessen your turn accordingly. But this of course only comes with experience. You will crash and stall many many times before you learn this. Just like we all have! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You can feel the plane start to buffet slightly and hear a 'whooshing' noise when you are pushing the turn to hard. Once you hear this you know you are very close to a stall. Listen and 'feel' the plane as you turn tighter and tighter, you will soon understand what I mean.

When you are flying to your target practise some turns and get used to the plane. I always practise aiming at clouds when flying to the target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (Turning a little and trying to stop my crosshair in a certain place and keep it there)

InCiSiOn89
10-24-2005, 04:33 PM
Thanks i am gunna go practice that but wat about bullet convergence?

NorrisMcWhirter
10-24-2005, 05:02 PM
Depends what you're firing with. Set it to about 10km with .50s as they're effective at that range http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

More seriously...

Try around 250m as you shouldn't really be firing over 350m anyway.

For aircraft with wing guns, you might like to try longer convergence (say 400m) but still try to open fire at less than 300m.

Ta,
Norris

Xiolablu3
10-24-2005, 06:50 PM
Convergeance is more a personal thing. I prefer it further away than most as I shoot a lot at loger ranges. If you have it set too close then the bullets will cross over and be miles apart at long ranges, totally missing the target.

I like mine at around 350.

Most others like them close.

Experiment and find out what you prefer.

It depends on whhat distance you start shooting.

I think .50 on the plane icon is 500m, is that correct guys?

On another note, I read by a real German Ace that when closing on your target you should get close enough to shoot 'and then get even closer' This was his tip to rookie pilots http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
10-24-2005, 09:05 PM
Thats right Xiola. If you see .50 on the icons then thats 500m.

My gun convergence is at 250/240. I one pulled it into 170 and that was a riot. Total destructive power at very close range but no good for strafing.

Loco-S
10-24-2005, 10:07 PM
From advisory circular 61-21a now known asfaa-h-8083


SPINS
A spin may be defined as an aggravated stall that
results in what is termed €œautorotation€ wherein the
airplane follows a downward corkscrew path. As the
airplane rotates around a vertical axis, the rising wing
is less stalled than the descending wing creating a
rolling, yawing, and pitching motion. The airplane is
basically being forced downward by gravity, rolling,
yawing, and pitching in a spiral path.
The autorotation results from an unequal angle of
attack on the airplane€s wings. The rising wing has a
decreasing angle of attack, where the relative lift
increases and the drag decreases. In effect, this wing is
less stalled. Meanwhile, the descending wing has an
Figure 4-9. Spin€"an aggravated stall and autorotation.
increasing angle of attack, past the wing€s critical angle
of attack (stall) where the relative lift decreases and
drag increases.A spin is caused when the airplane€s wing exceeds its
critical angle of attack (stall) with a sideslip or yaw
acting on the airplane at, or beyond, the actual stall.
During this uncoordinated maneuver, a pilot may not
be aware that a critical angle of attack has been
exceeded until the airplane yaws out of control toward
the lowering wing. If stall recovery is not initiated
immediately, the airplane may enter a spin.
If this stall occurs while the airplane is in a slipping or
skidding turn, this can result in a spin entry and
rotation in the direction that the rudder is being
applied, regardless of which wingtip is raised.
Many airplanes have to be forced to spin and require
considerable judgment and technique to get the spin
started. These same airplanes that have to be forced to
spin, may be accidentally put into a spin by
mishandling the controls in turns, stalls, and flight at
minimum controllable airspeeds. This fact is additional
evidence of the necessity for the practice of stalls until
the ability to recognize and recover from them
is developed.
Often a wing will drop at the beginning of a stall.
When this happens, the nose will attempt to move
(yaw) in the direction of the low wing. This is where
use of the rudder is important during a stall. The
correct amount of opposite rudder must be applied to
keep the nose from yawing toward the low wing. By
maintaining directional control and not allowing the
nose to yaw toward the low wing, before stall recovery
is initiated, a spin will be averted. If the nose is allowed
to yaw during the stall, the airplane will begin to slip in
the direction of the lowered wing, and will enter a spin.
An airplane must be stalled in order to enter a spin;
therefore, continued practice in stalls will help the pilot
develop a more instinctive and prompt reaction in
recognizing an approaching spin. It is essential to learn
to apply immediate corrective action any time it is
apparent that the airplane is nearing spin conditions. If
it is impossible to avoid a spin, the pilot should
immediately execute spin recovery procedures.
SPIN PROCEDURES
The flight instructor should demonstrate spins in those
airplanes that are approved for spins. Special spin
procedures or techniques required for a particular
airplane are not presented here. Before beginning any
spin operations, the following items should be
reviewed.
€ The airplane€s AFM/POH limitations section,
placards, or type certification data, to determine if
the airplane is approved for spins.
€ Weight and balance limitations.
€ Recommended entry and recovery procedures.
€ The requirements for parachutes. It would be
appropriate to review a current Title 14 of the
Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 91 for
the latest parachute requirements.
A thorough airplane preflight should be accomplished
with special emphasis on excess or loose items that
may affect the weight, center of gravity, and controllability
of the airplane. Slack or loose control cables
(particularly rudder and elevator) could prevent full
anti-spin control deflections and delay or preclude
recovery in some airplanes.
Prior to beginning spin training, the flight area, above
and below the airplane, must be clear of other air
traffic. This may be accomplished while slowing the
airplane for the spin entry. All spin training should be
initiated at an altitude high enough for a completed
recovery at or above 1,500 feet AGL.
It may be appropriate to introduce spin training by first
practicing both power-on and power-off stalls, in a
clean configuration. This practice would be used to
familiarize the student with the airplane€s specific stall
and recovery characteristics. Care should be taken with
the handling of the power (throttle) in entries and
during spins. Carburetor heat should be applied
according to the manufacturer€s recommendations.
There are four phases of a spin: entry, incipient,
developed, and recovery. [Figure 4-10 on next page]
ENTRY PHASE
The entry phase is where the pilot provides the
necessary elements for the spin, either accidentally or
intentionally. The entry procedure for demonstrating a
spin is similar to a power-off stall. During the entry,
the power should be reduced slowly to idle, while
simultaneously raising the nose to a pitch attitude that
will ensure a stall. As the airplane approaches a stall,
smoothly apply full rudder in the direction of the
desired spin rotation while applying full back (up)
elevator to the limit of travel. Always maintain the
ailerons in the neutral position during the spin
procedure unless AFM/POH specifies otherwise.
INCIPIENT PHASE
The incipient phase is from the time the airplane stalls
and rotation starts until the spin has fully developed.
This change may take up to two turns for most airplanes.
Incipient spins that are not allowed to develop into a
steady-state spin are the most commonly used in the
introduction to spin training and recovery techniques. In
this phase, the aerodynamic and inertial forces have not
achieved a balance. As the incipient spin develops, the
indicated airspeed should be near or below stall airspeed,
and the turn-and-slip indicator should indicate
the direction of the spin.
The incipient spin recovery procedure should be
commenced prior to the completion of 360? of
rotation. The pilot should apply full rudder opposite
the direction of rotation. If the pilot is not sure of the
direction of the spin, check the turn-and-slip indicator;
it will show a deflection in the direction of rotation.
DEVELOPED PHASE
The developed phase occurs when the airplane€s
angular rotation rate, airspeed, and vertical speed are
stabilized while in a flightpath that is nearly vertical.
This is where airplane aerodynamic forces and inertial
forces are in balance, and the attitude, angles, and selfsustaining
motions about the vertical axis are constant
or repetitive. The spin is in equilibrium.
RECOVERY PHASE
The recovery phase occurs when the angle of attack of
the wings decreases below the critical angle of attack
and autorotation slows. Then the nose steepens and
rotation stops. This phase may last for a quarter turn to
several turns.
To recover, control inputs are initiated to disrupt the
spin equilibrium by stopping the rotation and stall. To
accomplish spin recovery, the manufacturer€s
recommended procedures should be followed. In the
absence of the manufacturer€s recommended spin
recovery procedures and techniques, the following
spin recovery procedures are recommended.
Step 1€"REDUCE THE POWER (THROTTLE)
TO IDLE. Power aggravates the spin
characteristics. It usually results in a flatter spin
attitude and increased rotation rates.
Step 2€"POSITION THE AILERONS TO
NEUTRAL. Ailerons may have an adverse effect
on spin recovery. Aileron control in the direction
of the spin may speed up the rate of rotation and
delay the recovery. Aileron control opposite the
direction of the spin may cause the down aileron
to move the wing deeper into the stall and
aggravate the situation. The best procedure is to
ensure that the ailerons are neutral.
Step 3€"APPLY FULL OPPOSITE RUDDER
AGAINST THE ROTATION. Make sure that full
(against the stop) opposite rudder has been
applied.
Step 4€"APPLY A POSITIVE AND BRISK,
STRAIGHT FORWARD MOVEMENT OF THE
ELEVATOR CONTROL FORWARD OF THE
NEUTRAL TO BREAK THE STALL. This
should be done immediately after full rudder
application. The forceful movement of the
elevator will decrease the excessive angle of attack
and break the stall. The controls should be held
firmly in this position. When the stall is €œbroken,€
the spinning will stop.
Step 5€"AFTER SPIN ROTATION STOPS,
NEUTRALIZE THE RUDDER. If the rudder is
not neutralized at this time, the ensuing increased
airspeed acting upon a deflected rudder will cause
a yawing or skidding effect.
Slow and overly cautious control movements
during spin recovery must be avoided. In certain
cases it has been found that such movements result
in the airplane continuing to spin indefinitely, even
with anti-spin inputs. A brisk and positive
technique, on the other hand, results in a more
positive spin recovery.
Step 6€"BEGIN APPLYING BACK-ELEVATOR
PRESSURE TO RAISE THE NOSE TO LEVEL
FLIGHT. Caution must be used not to apply
excessive back-elevator pressure after the rotation
stops. Excessive back-elevator pressure can cause
a secondary stall and result in another spin. Care
should be taken not to exceed the €œG€ load limits
and airspeed limitations during recovery. If the
flaps and/or retractable landing gear are extended
prior to the spin, they should be retracted as soon
as possible after spin entry.
It is important to remember that the above spin
recovery procedures and techniques are recommended
for use only in the absence of the manufacturer€s
procedures. Before any pilot attempts to begin spin
training, that pilot must be familiar with the procedures
provided by the manufacturer for spin recovery.
The most common problems in spin recovery include
pilot confusion as to the direction of spin rotation and
whether the maneuver is a spin versus spiral. If the
airspeed is increasing, the airplane is no longer in a
spin but in a spiral. In a spin, the airplane is stalled.
The indicated airspeed, therefore, should reflect
stall speed.




anything else is bollocks.

InCiSiOn89
10-25-2005, 07:05 AM
OK thanks ill try around 230/240 and also foe example in multiplayer if there is that number and name of enemy over the plane what is the number is see it go down when i get close and up when i get farther i know its the distance but wat is it measured in cause i am sure its not measured in meters cause when it says 3.04 thats far away according to that when should i start shooting ?