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Sillius_Sodus
11-01-2005, 02:15 PM
Hi,

Is it just me or is shooting down aircraft in IL2 harder than in FB or PF? I still like to play vanilla IL2 but I'm having a heck of a time hitting the bad guys. Normally I like to fire when I'm within 100M of the target. Sometimes I've emptied all my ammo from 20M and all I get for my trouble is a few pieces flying off the target, even fighters, which should be more fragile than an IL2. Actually, downing IL2's is less of a problem (I fire at them from below aiming for the oil cooler a la Erich Hartman). Right now I'm in the early part of the campaign so I'm flying the BF-109F. I know it has relatively weak armament but still...

My IL2 is fully patched up and I have read the stickies. I'm just finding it a little easier to get kills in FB or PF. Larger hit bubbles in those sims maybe?

Good Hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

BaldieJr
11-01-2005, 02:20 PM
Yes. Its bubbles. I like bubbles. The come from my nose in winter.

Sillius_Sodus
11-01-2005, 02:23 PM
ok, hit spheres then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Gibbage1
11-01-2005, 03:00 PM
IL2's DM is based off of hit boxes. A bit more advanced then his shperes. A lot of the aircraft's systems are modeled using basic boxes like wing struts, controle lines, engines, oil cooler, gearing, pilots and so on. Unless you hit one of those boxes, you WONT do damage. So even if you hit an aircraft, the bullet can pass through without causing damage, or much damage. An HE shell exploding on the skin will send many many "shells" in a bloom effect and may hit one or many of those systems.

Say for instance you snap off an aircraft's wing. Thats due to you hitting the main spar, not hitting the wing. The spar is a lot smaller target then the wing. Engines, fuel tanks and pilots are much bigger targets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sillius_Sodus
11-01-2005, 03:34 PM
Thanks Gibbage1,

I think I'll fiddle around with the gun convergence too. Normally I have it set to 250M. They must have different hit boxes for ground objects because I have no problem getting ground kills, including parked aircraft. Aircraft on the runway with their engines running are much harder to kill.

Good Hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

horseback
11-01-2005, 04:44 PM
It is loads harder to get kills in the original Il-2 than in FB/AEP/PF. This led to some complaints that it must be 'dumbed down' because it isn't as hard to fly or get kills, until some RL pilots pointed out that they found the FM harder to 'fly' in Il-2 than they did in RL...

cheers

horseback

Sillius_Sodus
11-01-2005, 09:24 PM
horesback,

That makes sense. If you watch gun camera film from WW2, you often see the shooter getting lots of hits, which does not seem to happen in IL2. I also remember the story of Hans-Joachim Marseille shooting down something like 7 in a single mission having fired fewer than 200 rounds total (I might be slightly off on the numbers) so you'd think it woulnd't take too many hits to inflict fatal damage on a fighter, in most cases anyway. It sure doesn't take too many rounds to wreck my aircraft!

Good training for when I fly FB or PF.

Good Hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

Waldo.Pepper
11-02-2005, 08:44 AM
I also remember the story of Hans-Joachim Marseille shooting down something like 7 in a single mission having fired fewer than 200 rounds total


Has that claim EVER been verified..I have a few sources that say it is nonsense.

mynameisroland
11-02-2005, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I also remember the story of Hans-Joachim Marseille shooting down something like 7 in a single mission having fired fewer than 200 rounds total


Has that claim EVER been verified..I have a few sources that say it is nonsense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

good for you , post them please.

Sillius_Sodus
11-02-2005, 11:56 AM
I read about the claim in several books on WW2 aviation. It may very well be exagerated, a common enough occurence and certainly not limited to the Luftwaffe. My point is that newsreel footage of A2A kills show that once the shooter starts getting good hits on the target, it doesen't take very long for it to be fatally damaged, at least with most fighters.

The operative word here is "hits". I'm not an Olympic level deflection shooter so I usually wait until point blank range before opening fire. I found it odd that in vanilla IL2 it takes so many rounds to down a target from so close when conventional wisdom says that closer is better and video evidence shows the devastating effect of point blank gunfire. I've never been hit by one but you would think that a 20mm cannon shell hitting from 20m would cause a bigger owwwie. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

By the way, I'm not whining about it, I just don't get as many kills per mission. One or if I'm lucky two and many times I get no score but keep my wingman alive. From what I've read on the subject, this is not altogether unrealistic. Erich Hartman scored 352 victories (ok, allegedly scored http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) but his kill rate per mission was actually quite low, however he sometimes flew several missions a day. Funny they didn't include that aspect in the sim.

Good Hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

fighter_966
11-24-2005, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I also remember the story of Hans-Joachim Marseille shooting down something like 7 in a single mission having fired fewer than 200 rounds total


Has that claim EVER been verified..I have a few sources that say it is nonsense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have read a story where he get 17 in a day
it was not fiction in rl they flew many missions in a day germans called it freie jagd
btw Marseille was uber shot and flier with Me 109