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View Full Version : Poll:Would YOU strafe an enemy pilot in his Chute?



weaselwagon1
03-31-2007, 07:12 PM
Interesting topic opening up in the Tuskegee airmen post,several posters mentioning reading accounts of strafing of enemy pilots while they descend down to earth,while my collection is mostly Luftwaffe and it seems that the Germans were very frequently strafed by the Allies,would YOU?

weaselwagon1
03-31-2007, 07:12 PM
Interesting topic opening up in the Tuskegee airmen post,several posters mentioning reading accounts of strafing of enemy pilots while they descend down to earth,while my collection is mostly Luftwaffe and it seems that the Germans were very frequently strafed by the Allies,would YOU?

Jaws2002
03-31-2007, 07:15 PM
Flame bait.

Copperhead310th
03-31-2007, 07:18 PM
Probly not.
If i saw him chute kill a buddy, yeah. i'd pop his ***. no doubt about it. that's just unsportsman like. but it is war .... it would really have to depend on the circomstances involved, and did that enemy pilot do something dasterdly to deserv getting shot out if his chute.

Ratsack
03-31-2007, 07:22 PM
Sir Hugh Dowding recognized during the Battle of Britain that the Germans were within their rights to shoot RAF airmen in their parachutes because they would, if uninjured, return to the fight. He felt that the shooting of Germans in their chutes was not warranted, since they would inevitably be taken prisoner.

It should be noted that he ordered the shooting down of German rescue flying boats operating in the Channel, even though some carried the Red Cross. He argued that they were picking up German airmen who would otherwise have died, and returning them to service. He argued that they were therefore a legitimate target, even though they also picked up British pilots, too. The Germans complained bitterly about this.

I can understand Dowding's thinking, and it has to be acknowledged that he was consistent. In a situation of total war, I'd probably do the same. I tend to agree with the sentiment expressed in Schilling's comment to his wingman when the latter queried him on killing a 262 pilot as he bailed out: do you really want to fight that guy again tomorrow?

War is he11.

cheers,
Ratsack

weaselwagon1
03-31-2007, 07:39 PM
To clarify on the choice "AC requiring specialized training" it meaning something like 262,meteor,shinden,etc..

Snodrvr
03-31-2007, 08:36 PM
To be honest, I don't know. Right now sitting in front of a computer, I'd say no. However, I think it's impossible for any of us to say how we'd react in such conditions unless we've actually been in a war.

I'm sure if you had asked any one of the pilots, including those who went on to do so, before the war if he would have strafed a life raft or shot at an enemy pilot in his parachute he would have thought that you were crazy for even considering such a thing.

Mastiff070
03-31-2007, 08:46 PM
well in the CO-OP games the AI has no problem in chute killng me?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

LEBillfish
03-31-2007, 09:09 PM
Not going to vote as this is something hopefully none of us can relate to.....Yet truth be told, in the heat of battle when angry at the loss of friends, countrymen, fighting for your life or whatever your cause be it defense or some nationalistic belief.....All will do things they never thought themselves capable of, morality will sweep from one side to the other and many will do great evil AND great good well beyond what they ever imagined.

jannaspookie
03-31-2007, 09:12 PM
I don't think I could ever kill a defenseless human being (even if they had previously shot at my plane). By besting one in his machine, I would argue that he's been beaten. If he's lucky enough to be able to bail out, then congrats. If YOU bailed out, would you feel that your victor had the RIGHT to finish you off when YOU couldn't do anything but hang there and be ripped to shreds by his bullets? I don't mean to attack anyone, but it just seems like murder to me.

M2morris
03-31-2007, 09:16 PM
Depends on ROE established by command.

staticline1
03-31-2007, 09:28 PM
If its the AI, sure whenever I have the chance, I don't fly online but still won't do that to another simmer. In real life, no as I have accomplished my mission of stopping the enemy machine/aircraft from doing its duty and mission, unless he shot a bailed out mate of mine then he's toast.

LStarosta
03-31-2007, 09:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If YOU bailed out, would you feel that your victor had the RIGHT to finish you off when YOU couldn't do anything but hang there and be ripped to shreds by his bullets? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"I am an American, fighting for my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

Above is the first article of the Military Code of Conduct. The bastard you're shooting at probably has one too, so if you think he's not expecting it, you're wrong.

Sounds harsh, but it's war, and just because it's in the air doesn't mean it's less deadly.

leitmotiv
03-31-2007, 10:02 PM
As with all things virtual, the question is completely irrelevant---ethical decisions aren't made in fantasyland because there are no consequences. In the real world, would I shoot somebody who could kill me tomorrow? You bet. To not do so is crass stupidity unless they could be captured and put in the bag.

Here is what comes of feeling good as opposed to doing what is necessary:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessioni...007/04/01/do0104.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=B3HS1DYDZCT2FQFIQMGCFFWAVCBQ UIV0?xml=/opinion/2007/04/01/do0104.xml)

Esel1964
03-31-2007, 10:19 PM
Are pressure wave effects from an airplane,modelled to effect parachutes in the sim?
I've tried getting as close as possible to them to collapse chutes,but,I've never had any effect,regardless of approach angle.

IRL,I'd only drop them if they'd been butchering M8's or Allies,unnecessarally.

Giving credit to LStarosta and Leitmotiv's last comments,as well.

lowfighter
03-31-2007, 10:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Snodrvr:
To be honest, I don't know. Right now sitting in front of a computer, I'd say no. However, I think it's impossible for any of us to say how we'd react in such conditions unless we've actually been in a war.

I'm sure if you had asked any one of the pilots, including those who went on to do so, before the war if he would have strafed a life raft or shot at an enemy pilot in his parachute he would have thought that you were crazy for even considering such a thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very well said!
For myself, I don't know.
But it's so easy and pleasant and quite understandable, to dream from my armchair of being a righteous Knight of the sky. Especially if I forget the bigger picture, the grim realities of the war on the ground, the millions soldiers which died on the battlefield, the millions of civilians which died.

AKA_TAGERT
03-31-2007, 10:32 PM
Ah chute the shoots.. I mean.. Oh nevermind

Swivet
03-31-2007, 11:56 PM
That enemy chute could possibly cut my wing off. But i plead the 5th your honor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

ElAurens
04-01-2007, 12:24 AM
This topic comes up every six months or so.

In the game, only if I don't like the person for one reason or another, but especially if they are shooting off their mouth in chat.

BLAMMO!!!

In real combat, those of us that have never been there can not honestly answer the question.

Ratsack
04-01-2007, 02:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
...

Here is what comes of feeling good as opposed to doing what is necessary:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessioni...007/04/01/do0104.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=B3HS1DYDZCT2FQFIQMGCFFWAVCBQ UIV0?xml=/opinion/2007/04/01/do0104.xml) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm trying to work out what constitutes 'feeling good' here that a Brit should be ashamed of. Celebrating the bicentenary of the abolition of slavery? Don't think so, sport.

On the other hand, the rantings of Ferguson are as predictable as ever. You have to understand that this is the bloke who thinks America should establish a second Impirium (see Niall Ferguson, Colossus, (Penguin, New York, 2004)). His main criticism of the current US administration is that they lack the courage to call the thing what (he thinks) it is.

What would a reasonable person expect from an anachronistic lunatic like Ferguson?

cheers,
Ratsack

BfHeFwMe
04-01-2007, 02:31 AM
Name the last war or year where this has been a problem, not going to happen in the jet/missile age. Your about 70 years behind in your ethical dilemmas.

Some snot nosed zit covered ****** in an arcade server, it ain't against the Geneva Convention, is it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

ViktorViktor
04-01-2007, 02:57 AM
You guys are forgetting the Geneva Convention. Your leadership would not officially condone your actions. If caught (and reported), you would be put on trial as a war criminal, like all the baddies we despise. And your leaders would look the other way when you got sentenced.

Another thing most are forgetting is - what if you shoot him down over your own territory ? Then he winds up a prisoner, and is out of the fight.

Of course, then he'll be consuming resources (food, etc) which could be otherwise be used by your nation's civilians or fighting men, so I guess some of us in this thread would shoot prisoners as well.

IIJG69Kartofe
04-01-2007, 03:10 AM
I really think a lot of people here don't even know geneva convention<span class="ev_code_RED">s</span> exist
and what they are talking about!

War criminal and honourable soldier, what makes the difference?

IIJG69Kartofe
04-01-2007, 03:17 AM
Fighting with honour...

This is the difference between a battle and a brawl.
This is the difference between a civilized country and barbarrians.

Von_Rat
04-01-2007, 04:34 AM
i don't have a copy of the geneva convention handy. but im pretty sure that shooting a pilot in his chute over his own territory is not forbidden.


its no differant killing a pilot over his own territory in his chute, than it is if your a infrantryman, and you kill a enemy who is helpless but cannot or will not offer his surrender. infrantry often kill enemy soldiers who are helplessly fleeing back to their own lines. often these fleeing soldiers will be weaponless also. as long as they dont try to surrender theyre fair game.

you can say a pilot is not able to surrender from his chute. well when infrantry is getting straffed they cant surrender to a plane either.

just because a enemy is helpless doesnt necessarly mean he's protected by the geneva convention.

JG52Karaya-X
04-01-2007, 04:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
i don't have a copy of the geneva convention handy. but im pretty sure that shooting a pilot in his chute over his own territory is not forbidden. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is forbidden to shoot at any defenceless person hanging in a chute (i.e. pilot), paratroopers however are a different thing as they are an actively fighting force and may be shot at at any given time.

PS: I absolutely agree with Kartofe

Ratsack
04-01-2007, 05:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IIJG69Kartofe:
Fighting with honour...

This is the difference between a battle and a brawl.
This is the difference between a civilized country and barbarrians. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your sentiment is admirable, but I find it hard to think of concrete examples that illustrate the differences to which you refer.

Certainly, an army that torches an 'enemy' village and kills is occupants as part of a reprisal is not acting honourably.

But is it any more honourable to point an aerial bomb at the same group of civilians? If it is, what about a tank gun? A machine gun? Where do we draw the line?

I have a hard time with this 'honour' thing. It seems to mean different things depending on who's holding the gun. As I said in a post on a different topic, most of the German senior officers of WWII objected to the idea of overthrowing Hitler on the grounds that it would be dishonourable. This, in my view, entails a very strange understanding of the word 'honour'. It means it's more honourable to follow illegal orders to murder than to disobey those illegal orders. Very strange, as I said.

I am therefore very suspicious of arguments that rely on 'honour'.

cheers,
Ratsack

x6BL_Brando
04-01-2007, 05:47 AM
There's no dilemma at all in the sim for me. I'm not going to shoot my on-line friends in this way whichever side they're flying on - and if it's some team-killing punk then I'm not going to draw more attention to him or her by chute-shooting the jerk.

In real-life it's different I guess. I have no idea how it would feel - and the nearest I get is when some rude or thoughtless driver cuts me up. I probably respond by cursing him out, but I don't respond in turn by cutting him up (or chain-whipping his car, or burning his house, or whatever I might LIKE to do). But I have no real experience of combat fatigue in the topical sense.

The point would seem to be that crossing this line is a step too far. A pilot who bails is out of the fight and becomes a non-combatant. It is illegal to kill him. Ignoring the service pistol he may have, he is unarmed and has surrendered.

The same does not apply to paratroopers still in the sky as they are armed and floating down to attack a position. They are combatants, even if picking them off is relatively easy.

I incline towards Kartofe's points. If a boxer is defeated by another, does that entitle the victor to then batter his defeated opponent while he lies on the canvas? You may find me old-fashioned but I thought that this was what our forefathers fought to eradicate, i.e. Ideologies that rationalised murder with arguments like " consuming resources (food, etc) which could be otherwise be used by your nation's civilians or fighting men ". Such a lack of morals is repugnant to me.

B

slipBall
04-01-2007, 06:10 AM
I would not shoot at a airman hanging on a chute...I also don't need to down a aircraft, inflicting damage is enough for me, giving us both a story to remember, and the enemy a challenge to get home and land safely...I perfer to save ammo as a safegaurd for the ride home, not wasteimg on a defenceless fellow airman.....honour, discipline, should be paramount

Von_Rat
04-01-2007, 06:11 AM
i guess its moral and legal to kill civilians in the hundreds of thousands by aerial bombing. but its immoral and illegal to kill a pilot in a chute over his own territory.

that makes sense......to a lawyer maybe.

JG52Karaya-X
04-01-2007, 07:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
i guess its moral and legal to kill civilians in the hundreds of thousands by aerial bombing. but its immoral and illegal to kill a pilot in a chute over his own territory.

that makes sense......to a lawyer maybe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Neither thing is morally or legally right and should be considered a war crime. Unfortunately the first hasnt been prosecuted with a hard stance since the end of WW2, thinking about it that would put half the 8th AF, the Pacific B29 wings and most of the RAF night bomber force behind bars http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bo_Nidle
04-01-2007, 07:19 AM
VonRat said"infantry often kill enemy soldiers who are helplessly fleeing back to their own lines. often these fleeing soldiers will be weaponless also. as long as they dont try to surrender theyre fair game." When I was in the UK Forces and we went on exercise we would be handed a card with rules of engagement on them together with a precis of the relevant acts of the Geneva Convention that pertained to our role. One of these clearly stated that we were NOT to continue to engage enemy combatants if they retreated.

As for shooting enemy pilots in their parachutes:

Its against the Geneva Convention and thus would be a war crime. Its no different than shooting infantry POW's in cold blood.

If you believe that you are on the side of freedom and justice you do not do it. If you do then it makes you no different than the regimes that you fight against.

The most disturbing thing is that the only pilot I ever saw actually admit to doing this in a TV interview was an allied pilot, Richard Peterson of the 357th Fighter Group. I was very surprised to hear him admit it. He stated he did it to a German pilot he had seen shooting bomber crews in their parachutes. He stated that he targeted him and shot him down wanting him to bail out. He then circled back and shot him.

I have no doubt that it happened but I suspect that it was not, by any means, a common occurrence, and its certainly something that should not be done.

I suppose its easy to say that sitting safely and comfortably at home. In the heat of combat you are not the same person but I still think it is too calculated an act to condone.

Brain32
04-01-2007, 07:25 AM
I would NEVER shoot a pilot in his chute, furthermore if I am a comanding officer of a flight and I had one of my guys shooting a chute I would do my best for him to be severly punished or at the very least transferred as far away from my squad as possible, and off the record I would probably kick his @ss so hard he couldn't walk, let alone fly for couple of weeks.
Why?
Feck the Geneva convention and if-then-else BS, rules in war are made by men that are fighting it, if one side starts doing monstrosities you better believe the other side will return the favour. Is war not bad enough so we have to make it worse?

Pinker15
04-01-2007, 07:54 AM
Hard to say. I chute kill verry often in online game so in real I would propably do the same.

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 08:01 AM
Strafing chutes is a war crime.

Make your own conclusions.

weaselwagon1
04-01-2007, 08:02 AM
I saw that same interview with Peterson as well.I think that the Americans in particular did this more,more so than anyone else.The Germans seemed to mention US planes in particular,especially post-invasion,maybe they thought it would speed up the war?It is even on paper in an order by some us commander not to take any SS troops prisoner,this was probably post-malmedy..

Diablo310th
04-01-2007, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Not going to vote as this is something hopefully none of us can relate to.....Yet truth be told, in the heat of battle when angry at the loss of friends, countrymen, fighting for your life or whatever your cause be it defense or some nationalistic belief.....All will do things they never thought themselves capable of, morality will sweep from one side to the other and many will do great evil AND great good well beyond what they ever imagined. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

DooDaH2007
04-01-2007, 08:17 AM
It was wartime...

"Aim for the pilot, not the machine", was te advice given in WW1...

So I don't really see the difference between a pilot in or out of his machine...

But a pilot bailing over enemy territory, is probably best left alone to be captured...
You may need the ammo in the air...

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 08:20 AM
Chute shooting is why pilots carried sidearms.

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It was wartime... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, but there are still rules to obey, such as the Geneva Conventions.

Shooting someone in his chute because he might meet you again tomorrow ain't much of an excuse. It's plain BS.

slipBall
04-01-2007, 08:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It was wartime... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, but there are still rules to obey, such as the Geneva Conventions.

Shooting someone in his chute because he might meet you again tomorrow ain't much of an excuse. It's plain BS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 08:47 AM
At least slipball's with me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 08:49 AM
The Hague Rules of Aerial Warfare only state that shooting an airman egressing from a "disabled" aircraft is prohibited.

As long as that prop is still spinning...

Either way, moot point since the Rules were never ratified by any nation.

slipBall
04-01-2007, 08:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
At least slipball's with me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great minds think alike http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 08:58 AM
I gotta admit, it was fun to strafe chutes in early IL-2, when s/b who just bailed and was too quick to hit "refly", you could strafe his chute and he would die in his chute, as well as in his new plane.

I got couple of "WTF??"s back then http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> As long as that prop is still spinning... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be in favor of Pee-51 drivers since it's prop stops instantly after being hit by Freddy the fly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

IIJG69Kartofe
04-01-2007, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IIJG69Kartofe:
Fighting with honour...

This is the difference between a battle and a brawl.
This is the difference between a civilized country and barbarrians. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your sentiment is admirable, but I find it hard to think of concrete examples that illustrate the differences to which you refer.

Certainly, an army that torches an 'enemy' village and kills is occupants as part of a reprisal is not acting honourably. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But is it any more honourable to point an aerial bomb at the same group of civilians? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ever heard of "Guernica"?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have a hard time with this 'honour' thing. It seems to mean different things depending on who's holding the gun. As I said in a post on a different topic, most of the German senior officers of WWII objected to the idea of overthrowing Hitler on the grounds that it would be dishonourable. This, in my view, entails a very strange understanding of the word 'honour'. It means it's more honourable to follow illegal orders to murder than to disobey those illegal orders. Very strange, as I said.

I am therefore very suspicious of arguments that rely on 'honour'.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geneva conventions define what is legal and illegal toward soldiers, civilians ... And buildings (Shooting with a tank toward a nuclear plant is a baaaaad thing but hiding in a nuclear plant and shooting @ enemies is also a baaad thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif).

La HAYE conventions and OSLO convention, define the useage of weapons, what is legal, illegal, prohibited or must be avoided.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war

Every of your questions find an answer in these two conventions.

Acting in a war in respect of these conventions, made to "humanise" a bit the wars, is honourable in my point of view, anything else is bull****!

Fireball_
04-01-2007, 09:07 AM
It may have been more common in the Pacific theater, than the European theater.

Here's a quote from Butch Voris, Navy ace in WW2 and later the first commander of the Blue Angels:

"We knew this kind of thing was happening, which was why people hesitated to bail out. You'd get shot out of your chute or worse, so we did the same thing. No one talked about. We had the Life photographers on board. You just did it [killed parachuting Japanese pilots]. Anybody that's an enemy in the air, you just went after them."

Taken from the book First Blue by Robert K. Wilcox.

IIJG69Kartofe
04-01-2007, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
VonRat said"infantry often kill enemy soldiers who are helplessly fleeing back to their own lines. often these fleeing soldiers will be weaponless also. as long as they dont try to surrender theyre fair game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely, shooting in the back of a fleeing ennemy is not illegal according to war laws he is just "retreating".

Shoting at a surrending ennemy is a different thing, he is protected by war laws.

EDCF_Rama
04-01-2007, 09:08 AM
Well... a lot of peoples here are calling the Geneva conventions without knowing their content.

At begining of WWII, there was 3 Geneva conventions (signed in 1929):
- first one protects the wounded or sick SOLDIERS (participating to a conflict)
- Second protects the wounded, sick or shipwrecked sailors in a marine war
- Third protects the prisoners of war.

All these conventions were updated in 1949.
A fourth one, protecting the civilian victims of a conflict was adopted in 1949.
Since, then 3 protocolls have been added, on various points (Civil victims and insignia mostly...)

A pilot in a chute don't belong to any of the categories protected by any of the Geneva convetions, neither in 1939, nor now.

So shooting a pilot in his shute has never been a warcrime (and stil isn't) and will never bring you to be court-martialled, except if forbidden by your orders of your own army.

mrsiCkstar
04-01-2007, 09:12 AM
I probably wouldn't but not because of moral reasons... I just wouldn't waste ammo on a target I probably wouldn't hit.

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A pilot in a chute don't belong to any of the categories protected by any of the Geneva convetions, neither in 1939, nor now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A sailor in a lifeboat and an airman hanging in a chute is quite the same thing to me.

JG52Karaya-X
04-01-2007, 09:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It was wartime... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, but there are still rules to obey, such as the Geneva Conventions.

Shooting someone in his chute because he might meet you again tomorrow ain't much of an excuse. It's plain BS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

True dat

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A pilot in a chute don't belong to any of the categories protected by any of the Geneva convetions, neither in 1939, nor now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A sailor in a lifeboat and an airman hanging in a chute is quite the same thing to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But not according to teh LaW!!1111~~

MEGILE
04-01-2007, 09:35 AM
If he had trim mapped to a slider... ofcourse!

F19_Olli72
04-01-2007, 09:49 AM
A little side note to morals of war:

Im reading Adolf Dickfeld's autobiography and he tells the story about Gerd Noack. A Hauptmann who lost one leg in the invasion of Crete and was a glider pilot instructor.

In the final months of the war, he requested that his wife and his 2 & 3 year old daughters to come and join him at the base because of the bombings of Bremen. One day, the wife and kids were in a nearby field picking flowers, when out of the blue a Thunderbolt dived down.

Noack saw how the P-47 strafed his family running for cover. They were all killed. Flak opened up and hit the P-47 who emergencey landed. Obviously near insane of outrage, Noack took a Kübelwagen and drove to the crashsite where he found the pilot who had climbed out unhurt. He shot him dead on the spot.

In 1946 Noack studied at the university in Frankfurt. But a village resident who had witnessed the incident turned him in in exchange for 10 cigarrettes. Within weeks Noack was sentenced to death for war crimes. But while waiting for the sentence to be carried out, he managed to escape.

He tried to make it to the russian zone, but was halted by a german border guard. Despite pleading, the guard wouldnt let him pass. So he made a run for it and was shot in his only good leg. Three days later Gerd Noack was hanged for war crimes, strapped to a stretcher.

Moral of the story; life isnt fair and blows big time. At least it did for Gerd Noack.

berg417448
04-01-2007, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by weaselwagon1:
I saw that same interview with Peterson as well.I think that the Americans in particular did this more,more so than anyone else.The Germans seemed to mention US planes in particular,especially post-invasion,maybe they thought it would speed up the war?It is even on paper in an order by some us commander not to take any SS troops prisoner,this was probably post-malmedy.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need to read more books from other points of view. You have already stated that most of your book collection is from the Luftwaffe point of view. If you read some more books from other air forces and their experiences you would know that the Luftwaffe did their share of chute killing just like other air forces did. It is quite easy to find references to it.

As far as your assertion that Americans did it more? Who is to say. The Luftwaffe and the Polish air force were doing it in 1939 over Poland....no USAF around. Here is one source for that:
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/pol39/pol39.htm

It was happening over France and England in 1940...no USAF was around.


The same for Russia in 1941.


As I stated in the other thread: Most every air force had pilots who did it and most every air force claimed that the other side did it more.

fordfan25
04-01-2007, 09:49 AM
bad as i would hate to kill anyone if it was a war like ww2 then i would kill every enemy i could. the guy you let land safly may be the guy that kills you or your buddy a week later.if i knew 100% the piolet would be captuerd then no but other wise..

BigC208
04-01-2007, 09:50 AM
Official credo:WWII was a war of attrition. He who runs out of means to continue the war loses the war.
With that in mind, kill the enemy at every oportunity so the war will be over faster and you can go home.On a pilots personal level: Flying is a dangerous and unforgiving occupation in it's own right in peace time, let alone during a war. Every pilot knows this and there was/is an unwritten code amongst aviators that you will try to helpa fellow pilot in distress. Sailors have this as well, the hostile enviroment of the skies and the seas instill this in us and helps mutual survival. So personally you would have to overcome some basic human emotions and instincts before shooting at men under canopies or in lifeboats. War does this to man. See enough horror and atrocities commited against you own people/families and these things will become a lot easier. I have read accounts of RAF personel being appaled at the ferocity of their Polish squadronmates at the beginning of the war. No clean sporting fun, these guys went up to kill and maim as many Germans they could get their gunsight trained on. Me personally, I would have to be very pissed off at my adversary before I would shoot at him under a chute. I venture out daily at 10.000ft and it's a long way down. I would like to have the opportunity to use a parachute if the poop hits the fan. Going up with the knowledge that the bailout option is not there or folks are going to shoot at me on the way down will not make my life any easier and I doubt I would even go up during a shooting war if there was no escape option in the back of my mind.

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He shot him dead on the spot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'd also have shot that mofo.

ElAurens
04-01-2007, 09:56 AM
Like I said, every six months, the same thread with the same arguments, by the same people.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

JG52Karaya-X
04-01-2007, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He shot him dead on the spot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'd also have shot that mofo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

without hesitating...

slipBall
04-01-2007, 10:29 AM
Oh the honour, that there once was....
Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen's death, in common with most Allied air officers, Blake regarded Manfred von Richthofen with great respect, and he organized a full military funeral. Richthofen was buried in the cemetery at the village of Bertangles near Amiens on 22 April 1918. Six airmen with the rank of captain "” the same rank as Richthofen "” served as pallbearers, and a guard of honor fired a salute. Other Allied squadrons presented memorial wreaths.

Sergio_101
04-01-2007, 10:32 AM
In the combat reports about the Y-29 new years day
shoot out (operation Bodenplatte) there is much
description of continuing the shooting
as the pilot bails.

An armed man just bailed from a war machine, it's a war you know.
He is over enemy territory, he will be back tomorrow to kill YOU.
The solution is simple, shoot him.

The question reversed, bailing over hostile territory?
MAYBE I would not shoot.

As an escort pilot is becomes a matter of priority.
Killing a defeated pilot is not as important as defending
the bombers. But if one of the buggers bails and he
is still in your sights, vaporise him. It's your duty.

"What rules? There ain't no rules in a knife fight"

Sergio

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An armed man just bailed from a war machine, it's a war you know.
He is over enemy territory, he will be back tomorrow to kill YOU. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Common fairytale.

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An armed man just bailed from a war machine, it's a war you know.
He is over enemy territory, he will be back tomorrow to kill YOU. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Common fairytale. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We've all seen in Saving Private Ryan what happens to people you "let go".

Fireball_
04-01-2007, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An armed man just bailed from a war machine, it's a war you know.
He is over enemy territory, he will be back tomorrow to kill YOU. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Common fairytale. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see how you can call it a fairytale.

Leaving aside the morality of the issue for the moment, there must be numerous examples on all sides of pilots who were shot down, were rescued or made it back to their side, and subsequently ended up flying and killing again.

weaselwagon1
04-01-2007, 11:03 AM
"Like I said, every six months, the same thread with the same arguments, by the same people."
Whats wrong with a little provocative and controversial topic-making to liven things up a bit around here?There are only so many different things you can think of to get so many different responses out of people,usually a poster will bring out a quote or something that some of us hadnt known before and we can learn.How many times do we really wanna see the old "Whats better 109 or Mustang?" topics?(even though we all know late model 109's blew 'em away LOL)

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 11:04 AM
I dunno what your intention is upon flying fighters.

Speaking for me, my priority is shooting down the other plane, not making sure the other guy dies.
There were lots of ppl who thought about it the way I do.

The whole "it's war"-thing is nothing but a bad excuse for cold-blooded murder.

MEGILE
04-01-2007, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He shot him dead on the spot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'd also have shot that mofo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

without hesitating... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And yet both of you guys just swore allegiance to the geneva conventions.

Go figure

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:


The whole "it's war"-thing is nothing but a bad excuse for cold-blooded murder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You have to be kidding me. It is WAR. According to the Geneva Conventions, a COMBATANT cannot be tried for a crime such as murder if he lawfully kills another COMBATANT in COMBAT. Legally speaking, it is NOT cold-blooded murder, but rather one COMBATANT killing another, much in the same way an infantryman kills another infantryman. Not to be condescending, but at which point did it occur to you that war may not involve direct killing?

JG52Karaya-X
04-01-2007, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He shot him dead on the spot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'd also have shot that mofo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

without hesitating... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And yet both of you guys just swore allegiance to the geneva conventions.

Go figure </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well theres a small yet important difference between a face-less fight in the air and opposing a soldier head-to-head who has just killed your entire family before your very eyes.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Savvy?</span>

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He shot him dead on the spot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'd also have shot that mofo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

without hesitating... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And yet both of you guys just swore allegiance to the geneva conventions.

Go figure </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well theres a small yet important difference between a face-less fight in the air and opposing a soldier head-to-head who has just killed your entire family before your very eyes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or a bomber crew that just f*cked up your country.

JG52Karaya-X
04-01-2007, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He shot him dead on the spot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'd also have shot that mofo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

without hesitating... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And yet both of you guys just swore allegiance to the geneva conventions.

Go figure </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well theres a small yet important difference between a face-less fight in the air and opposing a soldier head-to-head who has just killed your entire family before your very eyes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or a bomber crew that just f*cked up your country. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

poor nancy

Havent heard/seen of a war on American soil since the Civil war so you're treading on very thin ground here.

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 11:38 AM
What is your point?

Infantry is a valid object for vengeance and retribution and bomber crews aren't?

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Infantry is a valid object for vengeance and retribution and bomber crews aren't? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depends.

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 11:41 AM
If anybody, I'd think WWII bomber crews would be the object of more hatred for their deliberate attacks of civilian centers than combat infantrymen. Then again, there are those deviants who commit war crimes on the ground as well, so I will go back to my point that combat airmen are no more "innocent" and aerial warfare is no more "honorable" than any other kid of warfare. And this leaves me confused with the double standard that people place on aerial warfare by somehow implying that it's a gentlemanly jousting contest rather than real warfare.

JG52Karaya-X
04-01-2007, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
What is your point?

Infantry is a valid object for vengeance and retribution and bomber crews aren't? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point is that if I should see an enemy soldier commiting a war crime such as strafing and killing my family I'd send his rotten arse to hell. Can you tell if someone's a war criminal by staring really hard at the markings on his plane?

2 different situations, 2 different decisions

apples and tangerines

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
What is your point?

Infantry is a valid object for vengeance and retribution and bomber crews aren't? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point is that if I should see an enemy soldier commiting a war crime such as strafing and killing my family I'd send his rotten arse to hell. Can you tell if someone's a war criminal by staring really hard at the markings on his plane?

2 different situations, 2 different decisions

apples and tangerines </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So by your argument, as an infantryman, you wouldn't kill the enemy until he killed your family first? That wouldn't make you too effective at what you do, would it?

Bremspropeller
04-01-2007, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So by your argument, as an infantryman, you wouldn't kill the enemy until he killed your family first? That wouldn't make you too effective at what you do, would it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once agian, you miss the point.

JG52Karaya-X
04-01-2007, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
What is your point?

Infantry is a valid object for vengeance and retribution and bomber crews aren't? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point is that if I should see an enemy soldier commiting a war crime such as strafing and killing my family I'd send his rotten arse to hell. Can you tell if someone's a war criminal by staring really hard at the markings on his plane?

2 different situations, 2 different decisions

apples and tangerines </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So by your argument, as an infantryman, you wouldn't kill the enemy until he killed your family first? That wouldn't make you too effective at what you do, would it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who's even talking about infantry here, we were talking about Hptm. Noack who was a glider pilot and witnessed a P47 strafe his family and drew bloody vengeance on the Jug pilot.

Pirschjaeger
04-01-2007, 11:56 AM
Knowing what I know now I'd have been more inclined to shot bomber crews rather than fighter pilots.

Then again, had I been a pilot during the war I wouldn't have had the hindsight I have today and therefore probably wouldn't have shot chutes.

As for whether it's right or wrong we'd have to break it down to what it really is; killing enemy. It's something you can answer only for yourself.

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 11:59 AM
Okay, I misunderstood what Karaya meant, but explain to me the difference between an infantry squad setting your house ablaze with molotov cocktails and a bomber bombing your entire hometown. What I'm saying is that the bombers are just as valid a target for "moral retribution" as infantrymen are.

drose01
04-01-2007, 01:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An armed man just bailed from a war machine, it's a war you know.
He is over enemy territory, he will be back tomorrow to kill YOU. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Common fairytale. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not a fairytale.

Chuck Yeager bailed out over Vichy France, eventually made it back to his unit and recorded 10.5 victories after that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Yeager

slipBall
04-01-2007, 02:21 PM
Look at Hans-Ulrich Rudel's story....still...shooting someone on a chute is murder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 02:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
Look at Hans-Ulrich Rudel's story....still...shooting someone on a chute is murder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it's not. Legally it's not murder. How many times does it have to be said. lol

slipBall
04-01-2007, 02:26 PM
(quote)
How many times does it have to be said. lol



At least a couple more times Luke http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 02:35 PM
Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.Legally it's not murder.

lol

MB_Avro_UK
04-01-2007, 03:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
I dunno what your intention is upon flying fighters.

Speaking for me, my priority is shooting down the other plane, not making sure the other guy dies.
There were lots of ppl who thought about it the way I do.

The whole "it's war"-thing is nothing but a bad excuse for cold-blooded murder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

But I think it depends on how you regard your 'enemy'.

During the Battle of Britain in 1940 between the Luftwaffe and the RAF there were no instances as far as I'm aware of pilots on either side being killed in their parachutes.

At that time there was perhaps a sense of 'gentlemen's conduct' on both sides.

This attitude seemed to diminish as the war progressed.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Ratsack
04-01-2007, 03:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
...During the Battle of Britain in 1940 between the Luftwaffe and the RAF there were no instances as far as I'm aware of pilots on either side being killed in their parachutes.
.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently there were incidents of this type. Dowding's view of it is in my first post in this thread (4th post, first page).

cheers,
Ratsack

Bearcat99
04-01-2007, 03:24 PM
You are missing an option....

I don't know what I would do.

If I was in combat and I had just seen this pilot shoot down my friend ..... I just might.... in the heat of battle I probably would... I can't say.

From here? Today? Who am I to judge from the comfort of my chair 60+ years after the fact, the actions of men in the heat of battle and there is no way in the world for me to even come close to determining what I would or wouldn't do in a wartime situation.. The question itself is extremely naive and presumptuous. Seeing death..... smelling it, feeling it's effects day after day after day has an effect on men, who are not naturally built to experience it, that none of us should take lightly and those who have been there, in the fire, are the only ones who can even begin to fully understand.

Wormhoudt,Malmedy,Cefalonia, to name a few, or the deeds done in retaliation to those things by Russian, Polish, American and other nations are not for me to second guess or judge.

F19_Olli72
04-01-2007, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
...During the Battle of Britain in 1940 between the Luftwaffe and the RAF there were no instances as far as I'm aware of pilots on either side being killed in their parachutes.
.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently there were incidents of this type. Dowding's view of it is in my first post in this thread (4th post, first page).

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also in "Fighter Boys" by Patrick Bishop theres an eyewitness account:

Peter Matthews was on leave in september, teaching his wife to drive on Epsom Downs when he looked up and saw "Hurricanes shooting down Germans in parachutes. I knew jolly well who they were. They were 303 squadron boys. Poles. They owned to it."

Also bailed dead british pilots were found riddled with bullets.

berg417448
04-01-2007, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:





During the Battle of Britain in 1940 between the Luftwaffe and the RAF there were no instances as far as I'm aware of pilots on either side being killed in their parachutes.



Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



5 Sept 1940

From the log of 11th Battalion Highland Light Infantry

Based in Rochford/Southend Area

1 British plane brought down. Pilot baled out and was machine gunned by Germans.


Another incident from a different source:

"S/Ldr Starr: He joined 253 Squadron a few days before he was shot down and killed while descending by parachute on 31 August 1940"¯


and on 11 July 1940:

"At about 18.30 hours, RAF Sergeant A. W. Wooley was piloting Hawker Hurricane No P3681 of 601 Squadron. Whilst engaging a Heinkel 111 off the Isle of Wight, his gravity fuel tank was hit and set alight by return fire. According to eyewitnesses, Sergeant Wooley baled out high above Freshwater and as he drifted towards Thorness he was machine-gunned by an enemy fighter. Luckily he survived but his parachute harness was almost cut through by one of the bullets. His troubles were not quite over that day for he landed in cow-pats."¯


so...you can see that such incidents did take place during that period.

MB_Avro_UK
04-01-2007, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:





During the Battle of Britain in 1940 between the Luftwaffe and the RAF there were no instances as far as I'm aware of pilots on either side being killed in their parachutes.



Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



5 Sept 1940

From the log of 11th Battalion Highland Light Infantry

Based in Rochford/Southend Area

1 British plane brought down. Pilot baled out and was machine gunned by Germans.


Another incident from a different source:

"S/Ldr Starr: He joined 253 Squadron a few days before he was shot down and killed while descending by parachute on 31 August 1940"¯


and on 11 July 1940:

"At about 18.30 hours, RAF Sergeant A. W. Wooley was piloting Hawker Hurricane No P3681 of 601 Squadron. Whilst engaging a Heinkel 111 off the Isle of Wight, his gravity fuel tank was hit and set alight by return fire. According to eyewitnesses, Sergeant Wooley baled out high above Freshwater and as he drifted towards Thorness he was machine-gunned by an enemy fighter. Luckily he survived but his parachute harness was almost cut through by one of the bullets. His troubles were not quite over that day for he landed in cow-pats."¯


so...you can see that such incidents did take place during that period. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for posting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

But you have 3 instances that maybe confirmed or not. The Battle of Britain in 1940 lasted between July and October i.e. 4 months.

If your records are correct, it amounts to one parachute kill every 5 weeks.

Considering the hundereds of combat encounters during this period your observation may not be significant.

The view of the RAF pilots at the time during the Battle of Britain was that they did not hate the Luftwaffe crews but objected to some degree about them dropping bombs...

Just my opinion and I'm not taking sides here despite being a loyal Brit... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

LStarosta
04-01-2007, 05:08 PM
What does it take to piss off the British? Homoerotic Portuguese footballers?

berg417448
04-01-2007, 05:09 PM
I never said that the incidents that I posted were the only ones that took place. These 3 incidents are just ones that I happen to have saved on a document.I posted them in response to your post that you were not aware of such incidents occurring at that time.

Quite frankly, I'm sure that other incidents did occur, but many would go unreported for obvious reasons.

amilaninia
04-01-2007, 06:02 PM
I would not shoot a defenseless person period,no matter he's in a chute or walking. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

William_008
04-01-2007, 07:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by weaselwagon1:
Interesting topic opening up in the Tuskegee airmen post,several posters mentioning reading accounts of strafing of enemy pilots while they descend down to earth,while my collection is mostly Luftwaffe and it seems that the Germans were very frequently strafed by the Allies,would YOU? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pirschjaeger
04-01-2007, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
What does it take to piss off the British? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Iced tea. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

OMK_Hand
04-02-2007, 05:22 AM
http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/mus/intnews/shotdown.mp3

"A Corsair pilot in the Pacific war zone tells of his harrowing experiences after his plane was shot down by the Japanese (July 25, 1943)"

Off this page:

http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/sub/mshws.htm

M_Gunz
04-02-2007, 05:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
Look at Hans-Ulrich Rudel's story....still...shooting someone on a chute is murder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is coming in from his blindspot and aiming for the cockpit just fair play?
Are snipers murderers? Or artillerymen?

During war, the big grey elephant stomps all over. It ain't sports. It's killing.
Murder and then some, and half or more involved don't get any choice in the matter.
Well, some can choose to try and hide....

You want to get sticky about it, 1st point at politicians and then point at the ones that
support them and then point at the ones that create and push discontent and then keep on
looking. In the Mideast alone they have excuses to kill going back over 3000 years.

I see a chute with some enemy who will land where he will be back up maybe even today to
kill me or one of mine... I don't think about what he DID but what he very probably will
try to do soon. What then is my responsibility as a soldier?

mynameisroland
04-02-2007, 06:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
As with all things virtual, the question is completely irrelevant---ethical decisions aren't made in fantasyland because there are no consequences. In the real world, would I shoot somebody who could kill me tomorrow? You bet. To not do so is crass stupidity unless they could be captured and put in the bag.

Here is what comes of feeling good as opposed to doing what is necessary:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessioni...007/04/01/do0104.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=B3HS1DYDZCT2FQFIQMGCFFWAVCBQ UIV0?xml=/opinion/2007/04/01/do0104.xml) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well in WW2 the vast majority of pilots did not feel it necessary to shoot people hanging in their parachutes and they <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">were</span> dealing with the prospect of facing their opponents tommorow.

Niipzu
04-02-2007, 06:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
Look at Hans-Ulrich Rudel's story....still...shooting someone on a chute is murder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it's not. Legally it's not murder. How many times does it have to be said. lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, it's called a warcrime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcrime#Crimes
http://spj.org/gc-index.asp?#p

Daiichidoku
04-02-2007, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
Sir Hugh Dowding recognized during the Battle of Britain that the Germans were within their rights to shoot RAF airmen in their parachutes because they would, if uninjured, return to the fight. He felt that the shooting of Germans in their chutes was not warranted, since they would inevitably be taken prisoner.

It should be noted that he ordered the shooting down of German rescue flying boats operating in the Channel, even though some carried the Red Cross. He argued that they were picking up German airmen who would otherwise have died, and returning them to service. He argued that they were therefore a legitimate target, even though they also picked up British pilots, too. The Germans complained bitterly about this.

I can understand Dowding's thinking, and it has to be acknowledged that he was consistent. In a situation of total war, I'd probably do the same. I tend to agree with the sentiment expressed in Schilling's comment to his wingman when the latter queried him on killing a 262 pilot as he bailed out: do you really want to fight that guy again tomorrow?

War is he11.

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Churchill ordered german flyign boats to be destoryed, even if picking up pilots/sailors from the channel

the fear was, if given safe conduct, the flying boats would radio locations of allied shipping in the channel to the LW

until then, Do59s and some captured french flying boats were painted white, with red crosses, and did NOT carry armament

AKA_TAGERT
04-02-2007, 07:44 AM
Man I wish my truck would get the millage these silly topics do! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

LEBillfish
04-02-2007, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Man I wish my truck would get the millage these silly topics do! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well trade it in and get yourself a Short Bus which is what this thread must be using.....Besides that way you can have your own window to lick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TheycallhimJosh
04-02-2007, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
"Man I wish my truck would get the millage these silly topics do!"
Try shifting out of 1st gear.
It seems to get more mileage than silly monikers and male-bonding expressions like "Pooor Nancy".I'm not surprised you drive a "truck",perhaps you drive a "Harley" too.Getting back to the topic,it would have been nice to think that noone engaged in this activity,but sometimes harsh actions cant be avoided,whether it was 60 years ago in Europe,35 years ago in My Lai,or 1 year ago in Lebanon.

WWSpinDry
04-02-2007, 09:09 AM
Nah; body parts get stuck all over my aircraft, it's really gross.

rnzoli
04-02-2007, 09:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Niipzu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
Look at Hans-Ulrich Rudel's story....still...shooting someone on a chute is murder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it's not. Legally it's not murder. How many times does it have to be said. lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, it's called a warcrime:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcrime#Crimes
http://spj.org/gc-index.asp?#p </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the big difference is that murder is a murder everywhere, but a warcrime is a crime only if you were fighting on the defeated side.

I am also missing the option "I don't know". If my pilot training had mentioned that killing a crew member bailing from his doomed aircraft is against the Geneva convention, I would have thought about it for a second, instead of pulling the trigger. In case of low altitude, I might have let the person touch down, and when he runs for cover, strafe him on the ground instead, giving him better chances for survival (but probably wounding him, or at least scaring him a lot). I might even think of situations when I have to bail - would I be happy in case an enemy pilot does the same thing to me? Would I return fire with my sidearms, perhaps? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

OMK_Hand
04-02-2007, 09:55 AM
With regard to my posting this link:

http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/mus/intnews/shotdown.mp3

on the previous page of this topic, right click and 'save as' to download and hear this wartime recording, where a corsair pilot is interviewed whilst recovering, having received injuries during his decent after bailing out.

This is a similar account (right click, 'save as'):

http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/mus/intnews/tomharm.mp3

"Football star and fighter pilot Tom Harmon tells of being shot down while flying a P-38 fighter (January 30, 1944)"

He sounds like it was expected, that the Japanese would shoot at you after bailing. Even allowing that these radio interviews were mostly scripted, they are still moving.

(Hope the guy who's site it is won't mind...)

AKA_TAGERT
04-02-2007, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
Try shifting out of 1st gear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yikes!

Looks like poor wittle Joshie is still a wittle upset about the spanking I gave him last week!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
It seems to get more mileage than silly monikers and male-bonding expressions like "Pooor Nancy". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes.. that is it!

Let it go Nancy!

We don't want you blowing a gasket so soon!

I mean you just joined the forum last week and look how upset you are getting!

Almost as if you had some baggage before you got here?

As in 'TheyCallYouJosh' now.

But..

What 'DidTheyCallYouBefore' last week when you made this new handle?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
I'm not surprised you drive a "truck", perhaps you drive a "Harley" too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not surprised that your surprised! In that I am sure allot of things are surprising to you! Like the way the toothpaste comes out of the tube when you squeeze it. Yes, I am sure a min does not go by that you are surprised by something or mesmerized by a shinny piece of tin foil blowing by your window.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
Getting back to the topic, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Feel better Nancy?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
it would have been nice to think that noone engaged in this activity, but sometimes harsh actions cant be avoided, whether it was 60 years ago in Europe,35 years ago in My Lai,or 1 year ago in Lebanon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Looks like I will have to change your handle from 'Nancy' to 'Master of the Obvious'

M_Gunz
04-02-2007, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
It seems to get more mileage than silly monikers and male-bonding expressions like "Pooor Nancy". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you kidding? That expression is the Eternal Post Reply Fuel. If Star Trek had that then
they never woulda needed dilithium crystals!

FA_IKKYO
04-02-2007, 12:28 PM
In real life. YOU JUMP I PUMP!!

I don't want you coming back and shooting either me or my friends. War is Hell! : http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

TheycallhimJosh
04-02-2007, 12:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Looks like poor wittle Joshie is still a wittle upset about the spanking I gave him last week! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>-AKA-***GERT
maybe you like spanking men,sounds kinda homo-erotic to me.Also,perhaps actual spanking is not what you mean.Perhaps you're trying desperately to show how you're the "cool" guy around here by using silly expresssions.If you think that you "spanked" anyone last week it might have been the guy you took home from the Leather/Harley bar that looked one of the Village people.Maybe it's just your bad spelling,hindering your ability to communicate with others.Also,its pathetic how you constantly point out my recent arrival here on the forum,somehow implying your superiority by virtue of "seniority".If thats how you feel superior to others,i can understand your reason for being an arrogant troublemaker who likes to throw around what he thinks is some sort of "weight".Moderators Ban him.

AKA_TAGERT
04-02-2007, 01:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Looks like poor wittle Joshie is still a wittle upset about the spanking I gave him last week! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>-AKA-***GERT
maybe you like spanking men,sounds kinda homo-erotic to me.Also,perhaps actual spanking is not what you mean.Perhaps you're trying desperately to show how you're the "cool" guy around here by using silly expresssions.If you think that you "spanked" anyone last week it might have been the guy you took home from the Leather/Harley bar that looked one of the Village people.Maybe it's just your bad spelling,hindering your ability to communicate with others.Also,its pathetic how you constantly point out my recent arrival here on the forum,somehow implying your superiority by virtue of "seniority".If thats how you feel superior to others,i can understand your reason for being an arrogant troublemaker who likes to throw around what he thinks is some sort of "weight".Moderators Ban him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Pooor Groupie!

LEBillfish
04-02-2007, 01:46 PM
I'd buy a ticket to watch that show http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

AKA_TAGERT
04-02-2007, 02:08 PM
It would be worth every penny too! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TheycallhimJosh
04-02-2007, 02:47 PM
Maybe you like to call others "nancy",make remarks about people not having any friends being the reason they post what you would consider to be "stupid" topics,etc.
From your venomous,unending arrogant,pompous remarks I wonder if you are indeed socially outcast,no friends,no girlfriend,perhaps handicapped and frustrated...?

huggy87
04-02-2007, 03:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Looks like poor wittle Joshie is still a wittle upset about the spanking I gave him last week! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>-AKA-***GERT
maybe you like spanking men,sounds kinda homo-erotic to me.Also,perhaps actual spanking is not what you mean.Perhaps you're trying desperately to show how you're the "cool" guy around here by using silly expresssions.If you think that you "spanked" anyone last week it might have been the guy you took home from the Leather/Harley bar that looked one of the Village people.Maybe it's just your bad spelling,hindering your ability to communicate with others.Also,its pathetic how you constantly point out my recent arrival here on the forum,somehow implying your superiority by virtue of "seniority".If thats how you feel superior to others,i can understand your reason for being an arrogant troublemaker who likes to throw around what he thinks is some sort of "weight".Moderators Ban him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Josh, your post is almost unreadable. That big button on your keyboard, it's called a spacebar. Try hitting twice after each period before you begin another sentence.

AKA_TAGERT
04-02-2007, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by huggy87:
Josh, your post is almost unreadable. That big button on your keyboard, it's called a spacebar. Try hitting twice after each period before you begin another sentence. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Funny.. you should point that out.. In that to hear Josh talk one would get the impression that he is some sort of English major who 'FEELS' I am the hard one to understand.

What with his constant references to my english and gramar errors..

But as it turns out he too is hard to follow!

NICE!

For a moment there I thought I was the only one to notice it. I didn't say anything though in that I felt sorry for him.. That and I am no English major! But it appears that he isnt either!

Warrington_Wolf
04-02-2007, 04:21 PM
"chute shooting"
I can't believe that we are beating this dead friggin horse again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif.

Bearcat99
04-02-2007, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by amilaninia:
I would not shoot a defenseless person period,no matter he's in a chute or walking. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is easy to say now...... you don't know what you would do, none of you, if you were exposed to death day in and day out... seeing friends and loved ones... because that's what the wartime bond between friends is.... die in horrible ways.... you don't know what you would do. If you think you do know then that only shows how naive you are. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

han freak solo
04-02-2007, 05:46 PM
I didn't even have to read this thread and I'm still laughin'.

SHOOT 'EM ALL!!!! MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

TheycallhimJosh
04-02-2007, 06:57 PM
"Josh, your post is almost unreadable. That big button on your keyboard, it's called a spacebar. Try hitting twice after each period before you begin another sentence".
Well,well,well.
Looks like "AKA_TAGERT" is running around here with another screen name. How's that for your spacing Taggert?
Your spelling and grammar are still terrible with your alter-ego..

AKA_TAGERT
04-02-2007, 07:17 PM
Pooor Paranoid Nancy

LStarosta
04-02-2007, 07:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheycallhimJosh:
"Josh, your post is almost unreadable. That big button on your keyboard, it's called a spacebar. Try hitting twice after each period before you begin another sentence".
Well,well,well.
Looks like "AKA_TAGERT" is running around here with another screen name. How's that for your spacing Taggert?
Your spelling and grammar are still terrible with your alter-ego.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, seriously, use the space bar.

If you don't use the spacebar, paragraphs, punctuation and capitalization, your text looks like one big dyslexic blob and most people won't bother to read it.

Just some advice...

TheycallhimJosh
04-02-2007, 09:05 PM
Starosta,
I am only guilty of run-on sentences that I may have not put into new paragraphs upon a new idea in the sentence.
However,this should be excused in the heat of the moment when replying to such drivel as put forth by ***gert.It is common when online.
Thank you for your observation.

AKA_TAGERT
04-02-2007, 09:22 PM
Sounds like someone needs a hug?

Bearcat99
04-02-2007, 09:26 PM
Alright josh.... enough with the name calling. Back off now.... You too Tag... or else..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Doug_Thompson
04-02-2007, 09:47 PM
Would I? No. I'd save my bullets for something that was in the air and still able to kill me.