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XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:51 PM
I understand the concept of trim but have a few questions as I seem to with some planes, and since the patch many more have trouble getting this function to work. My keys for it are set, However.....

1. Is the amount of trim constant with a particular plane from flight to flight or is it inconsistant?

2. Almost all planes now I must adjust the rudder on to get the plane to fly straight (staying on it's heading)...Naturally this causes the plane to want to roll, yet why is it on some planes I can never correct this with Ailerons...Is this a result of torque? (have noticed this more since the patch).

3. Assuming except for drift due to wind and load affecting elevators I would think that for all of us the amount of trim would be consistant...If so are trim numbers for the various planes posted somewhere?

Thanks for your help,

Kelly

....Billfish / K2 / Kelly....
Wielder of the Iron Skillet
....."Husband Tamer".....
Courage~Honor~Tenacity

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:51 PM
I understand the concept of trim but have a few questions as I seem to with some planes, and since the patch many more have trouble getting this function to work. My keys for it are set, However.....

1. Is the amount of trim constant with a particular plane from flight to flight or is it inconsistant?

2. Almost all planes now I must adjust the rudder on to get the plane to fly straight (staying on it's heading)...Naturally this causes the plane to want to roll, yet why is it on some planes I can never correct this with Ailerons...Is this a result of torque? (have noticed this more since the patch).

3. Assuming except for drift due to wind and load affecting elevators I would think that for all of us the amount of trim would be consistant...If so are trim numbers for the various planes posted somewhere?

Thanks for your help,

Kelly

....Billfish / K2 / Kelly....
Wielder of the Iron Skillet
....."Husband Tamer".....
Courage~Honor~Tenacity

Buzz_25th
10-20-2003, 08:56 PM
Probably because aileron trim doesn't work on some planes, or that plane didn't have trim in real life.

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XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 09:22 PM
In the sim trim resets to a default value (which should be the "takeoff" setting) for each aircraft type.

I have found that in the sim you must still manually trim for a takeoff setting if you wanted a realistic departure, but there really is no need in the sim as you are not holding much control pressure when using a joystick!



Trim is always varied depending on the flight regime, and its purpose is to optimize the control surfaces for a given airspeed/flight condition.

The most basic definition of its purpose is to eliminate control pressures when in a stabilized flight profile, such as cruise. As speed changes the amount and direction of trim needed will change to maintain a level flight attitude without excess stick forces.


Put another way, (and more accurately): you trim the aircraft to fly at a certain speed, once trimmed for level flight at a given speed, an increase in power will lead to a climb at that speed, a decrease in power will lead to a descent at that speed, and bringing power to an intermediate value will allow level flight at that speed.

There is no standard trim settings, every day the same plane will be a little different from the previous day, and there will be far more difference between different aircraft (even of the same type). Aircraft, cargo, weapons, fuel, and passenger weight will all cause changes in the trim required, as will different altitudes and atmospheric conditions, and as I said above a change in airspeed will always require a trim change on the elevator, a power change or pitch attitude change will require a rudder trim change. . etc etc. . . there are a lot of factors that you really don't have to think about. Just set the ball in the middle with rudder trim for your given airspeed, set elevator trim so that the aircraft climbs, maintains level flight, or descends as you see fit. etc.


Many aircraft don't have aileron trim, and you will need to use stick pressure to hold wings level at high, and often low power settings. Do not try to use rudder trim in place of aileron trim, instead, trim the rudder to center the inclinometer (black ball in the glass tube) on the panel, and adjust power to a wings level state, try using level stabilizer (you must map a key for it), or just hold that stick force.

And yes it is a result of torque and what is known as p-factor, but essentially these are exacerbated by high power settings and low airspeed.





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XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 09:28 PM
LEBillfish wrote:

- 3. Assuming except for drift due to wind and load
- affecting elevators I would think that for all of us
- the amount of trim would be consistant...If so are
- trim numbers for the various planes posted
- somewhere?

The amount of trim needed varies with airspeed(the square of the airspeed actually) and altitude. It is also affected by what you have under the wings, and if its modelled, how much fuel you have(and where it is). So a table for each aircraft would be quite long... you'd be better off just adjusting "on the fly".

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 06:04 AM
I can't remember how many times I have posted this pics, there they go again: (I Hope it helps)


http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Bf109G6+trim+instructions.pdf
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/trim1.jpg

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/trim2.jpg

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/aileron+and+rudder.jpg

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/aileron+and+rudder2.jpg

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/aileron+and+rudder3.jpg

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/aileron+and+rudder4.jpg


http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif

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Tully__
10-22-2003, 10:38 AM
1. Trim resets to "neutral" each time you start a mission.

2. Some aircraft appear to have no aileron trim.

3. "Trim numbers" used to be useable in IL2, but in FB the amount of trim applied depends on the time the key is held down, so 3 taps will be different from person to person depending on how they tap, what keyboard they're using, keyboard drivers, etc.....

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Tully

XyZspineZyX
10-22-2003, 11:44 AM
Trim is best put on a slider. Then you'll know where it is (or where it is tying to move to ...sigh). Pretty much all planes need forward trim to fly level at speed. The faster you go the more forward trim (nose down) you'll need to fly level. There is no magic ammount of trim that you need to know about. Just move it to where it feels good. Of course real aces like Bud Anderson used it to turn better too (a variation of reducing stick pressure).

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
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Hawgdog
10-22-2003, 02:57 PM
Thanks Tully, now I understand.
I didnt realize- I assumed it was 'x' degrees for each tap
Now I've been messing with trim more, my flying has taken a hit. But its a learning curve. Trim on a slider is so dissaproved in the community I wont go that route, but have mapped it to the hat switch for quicker adjustments.


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XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 05:03 AM
Ray, at last you understood the concept of what trim is used for, but your highly disfunctional idea about using trim for turning will be forever the cherry on the icecream of dunceness....you still have to understand the factor of time and attention during a dogfight, read more and talk to real pilots, Im pretty sure you can go to a lots of airports in central florida where there is somebody with warbird experience or his own plane( if you want to know more) and you will see what Im talking about.(if you have eyes to see)


RayBanJockey wrote:
- Trim is best put on a slider. Then you'll know
- where it is (or where it is tying to move to
- ...sigh). Pretty much all planes need forward trim
- to fly level at speed. The faster you go the more
- forward trim (nose down) you'll need to fly level.
- There is no magic ammount of trim that you need to
- know about. Just move it to where it feels good. Of
- course real aces like Bud Anderson used it to turn
- better too (a variation of reducing stick pressure).
-

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif

[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein Würgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 12:19 PM
Just because I use trim to turn better doesn't mean I don't know about all the other things that it takes to be an ace. I'm the complete package. Being able to turn 30% better than 90% of everyone else is just a bonus (winkysmiley.rbj)



Hawgdog wrote:
- Trim on a
- slider is so dissaproved in the community I wont go
- that route, but have mapped it to the hat switch for
- quicker adjustments.

Trim on a slider is not disapproved here. If I ever got a squad together, that would be one of the requirements: 1) you have to be an ace or my friend 2)you have to have have your trim on a slider. AONN squad (aces only no newbies)



"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Message Edited on 10/23/0308:09AM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 04:38 AM
Ray ray ray ban..your claims are just a joke, you had the oportunity to prove yourself, and of course you could not do it, you know, its a matter of credibility, you dont have what is called......credibility?

really, how can you be an ace if you dont fly online?

please refer to this post to refresh your memory
:
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=fr_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zdbzr

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif

[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein Würgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 09:48 AM
I think the one thing RayBanJockey always forgets is that even if some whacked out pilot claimed to have used trim to help turn in real life.
Trim in FB does not function like it does in real life. In effect trim does help you turn by balancing your controls. Yet they did not crank into a hard turn, and start adding in trim.
Either they could well make the turn or they took another route.

Not that it really matters. I've seen a couple of people bat turn online with trim. One of two things happens...

Either they're a day late and a dollar short, and by the time the trim actually kicks in they've already been bounced. Or they just turn themselves to death until they can turn no more. People who rely on trim turning come up short in every other aspect of air combat.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 10:50 AM
Why do you erroneously think people "rely" on trim turning? It's just another aspect of what it takes to fly the BEST. People use it because it's there (and been so in combat sims for 6 years running).

Imagine you against a clone of yourself (same 2 planes). Now imagine one of you can turn 30% better. Who do you think will win most of the time?

I just find it funny people who don't use trim who think everyone who does is going to spin out of control while they casually bounce them.

And for Loco-S, if you don't believe I'm an ace it's your problem, not mine. There are a handful of people in these forums who know who I am online and they will tell you I am everything I claim to be. The proof is in the pudding.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-25-2003, 03:58 AM
Dude...you are the pudding, and its so old it stink, go and learn to fly in real life and get some real life common sense..

Air combat is not turning with trim, its flying using something called brain, you want some?


he he, its not me the only one who think you are a big mouth attached to a keyboard, the pure and simple truth is that no one in this forum has seen you online, no one.

RayBanJockey wrote:
- Why do you erroneously think people "rely" on trim
- turning? It's just another aspect of what it takes
- to fly the BEST. People use it because it's there
- (and been so in combat sims for 6 years running).
-
- Imagine you against a clone of yourself (same 2
- planes). Now imagine one of you can turn 30%
- better. Who do you think will win most of the time?
-
- I just find it funny people who don't use trim who
- think everyone who does is going to spin out of
- control while they casually bounce them.
-
- And for Loco-S, if you don't believe I'm an ace it's
- your problem, not mine. There are a handful of
- people in these forums who know who I am online and
- they will tell you I am everything I claim to be.
- The proof is in the pudding.
-
-

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Loco-S.gif

[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein Würgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif