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blairgowrie
11-24-2004, 02:45 PM
I seem to be experiencing a lot of game crashes and hard reboots lately and thought it might have something to do with overclocking.

My specs are:

AMD 3000+ o/c'd to 2.38
Zalman 7000 copper heatsink
Asus A7N8X del. ver 2 (bios 1006)
1 GB Corsair PC3200LL
ATI 9700 Pro (not o/c'd) with Cat 4.10's
Enermax 465W PSU
Lian Li aluminum case
Audigy Gamer


Temps are load for CPU do not exceed 44C.

Running FSB at 197 with 12 multiplier. At 200, it will fail Torture Test. Copy of Bios as follows:

http://img49.exs.cx/img49/3862/BIOS.jpg


Any thoughts what might be causing the game crashes? Have re-installed game FB, AEP and PF but crashes still happening. Will post dxdiag if needed.

blairgowrie
11-24-2004, 02:45 PM
I seem to be experiencing a lot of game crashes and hard reboots lately and thought it might have something to do with overclocking.

My specs are:

AMD 3000+ o/c'd to 2.38
Zalman 7000 copper heatsink
Asus A7N8X del. ver 2 (bios 1006)
1 GB Corsair PC3200LL
ATI 9700 Pro (not o/c'd) with Cat 4.10's
Enermax 465W PSU
Lian Li aluminum case
Audigy Gamer


Temps are load for CPU do not exceed 44C.

Running FSB at 197 with 12 multiplier. At 200, it will fail Torture Test. Copy of Bios as follows:

http://img49.exs.cx/img49/3862/BIOS.jpg


Any thoughts what might be causing the game crashes? Have re-installed game FB, AEP and PF but crashes still happening. Will post dxdiag if needed.

LuckyBoy1
11-24-2004, 03:00 PM
There's a good chance that it's not the CPU that's freaking out. I suspect your RAM is freaking out. If your bios will let you, look for something that is called in my ABIT bios "DRAM Ratio" and put it im 3:2 mode and crank up the overclcoking of the CPU just a tad and see if it crashes again. If it doesn't, you don't have to look any further than your RAM. No need to test it or anything like that. If this is the case, don't throw your RAM away or leave it in 3:2 mode. Just run down to the local computer store and buy some RAMsinks for your memory. Then rig a fan to blow on it and you can probably keep the overclock you now have or close to it, but go no further without relaxing the timings. Just in case you're wondering, going out of 1:1 or relaxing RAM timings will make it so you can overclock further, but you will lose about a little more than you gain by doing so. Many people don't like hearing this, but it's true. Relaxing the timings beyond like one step and going out of 1:1 may give you an impressive clock speed, but it is kinda peeing in your pants. It makes you feel warm and tingly, but is of no real functional value.

Howie A
11-24-2004, 03:14 PM
I would guess its not your CPU because its a very good load temp, but still that's quite an OC. I know this suggestion appears too simple, but just reduce your FSB by 10 and play for a few days. Game play should not be affected much as far as FPS.

Marek_Steele
11-24-2004, 03:29 PM
In case this is just a memory issue and cpu is perfectly stable:
For Corsair LL's (if model is based on winbond CH5's, I guess rev v3.1 or 3.0, you can check on sticker) and nf2 mobo, you should try 2.70v or even 2.75v vdimm and set timmings to 2.5-3-2-11.
In your config this is
Active Precharge Delay 11
RAS TO CAS Delay 3
Precharge Delay 2
CAS Latency 2.5

Voltage isn't shown on your screenshot, but shoulb be RAM Voltage, VDIMM or something similar.
Running 1gb cl2 200mhz sometimes is problematic in nf2s with cpc on (but you don't want to turn it of, and in case of that mobo, you can't).
These settings are actually faster than the ones you are using and more stable too on your setup.
Oh, other thing, try 195mhz too just to be a little more conservative, usually a 5 less mhz than stable limit is applied "just in case" because no two days are the same (considering burn in etc).

Hope it helps!

Schutze_S
11-24-2004, 03:40 PM
I was having the exact same problems.What solved it for me is so simple it's not funny.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gifI set my sound acceleration to Standard http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Weather_Man
11-24-2004, 03:44 PM
Have does it do at 11.5 x 200 ~ 2300Mhz? It's a little slower CPU clock, but may let you run the RAM full speed.

If that works, then you might try 11.5 x 205 or 210 with the vdimm upped to 1.7 or 1.8. Try out different combos also. 11x210, 11x215, etc. You'll get a bigger performance boost with a higher FSB than only a high CPU clock.

blairgowrie
11-24-2004, 04:28 PM
Great stuff guys. I have a lot of respect for all your opinions.

In the morning ,when my mind is not befuddled with scotch whisky, I will try a lower multiplier to 11.5 and change the RAM timings to those recommended by Marek_Steele. Sound has always been set at standard but good suggestion if this was not the case Schutze_S.

I'll update this thread in the morning with progress.

ustahl
11-25-2004, 01:24 AM
Hi Blairgowrie,
I've also had the same issues some time back with those settings on same MoBo, same CPU with same Zalman cooler, 1 GB Kingston HyperX PC3200 at same Bios settings.

I got rid of the occasional crahes by raising the CPU Vcore to 1.775V and changing CPU-Interface: Aggressive.

The CPU simply needs more voltage to cope with the o/c. More Vcore means higher CPU temperature, but the Zalman cooler we both have handles that with no probs.

Whereas the MoBo is designed to handle FSB 400, my CPU XP3000+ is originally only for FSB 333. Therefore I have not been able to use higher ext. frequencies (>200) reliably.

Although I can get it run at 12 x 200, but get frequent crashes under stress. In order to find the highest non-crashing FSB I gradually reduced the external frequency and found the sweet spot at 197.
To play it safe I have settled for 12 x 196 with no problems for several months, memory settings 6-3-2-2 (but we have different memory).

Tempeatures: You mention CPU temp max 44 under load. Is that measured at the socket or diode? How did you obtain that value, Asus Probe or MBM?

Cheers

blairgowrie
11-25-2004, 06:25 AM
Here's what I did this morning.

Reduced FSB to 195, CPU Interface to aggressive and increased VCore to 1.775 as per ustahl. Changed RAM settings to 2.5-3-2-11. RAM voltage was 2.7v so left it there.

Ran Black Death and frame rates had dropped by 5 full frames. Lots of stutters and jerkiness. Temp on Asus Probe increased to 46c and 48c on CPU in Bios.

Marek_Steele. Are you sure about these RAM settings?

ustahl. I think my chip is also a 333FSB. I tried to get the 400 but they were scarcer than hens teeth when I got my chip about a year ago.
Many thanks for your input. Amazing how we have an almost identical set-up. I love the Zalman and the other ultra quiet fans in my case. My wife lets me have my 'puter in the main living room in front of the big TV and wood stove. But she draws the line on rudder pedals.

B16Enk
11-25-2004, 06:53 AM
I'll post my settings (if I have remembered them wrong) for you tonight Blairgowrie,

Our systems are similar, however I am using UberDemons BIOS as it unlocks the PCI latency settings.

My CPU is a 2500+ (333) too, but likes 200*11 with the VCore upped to 1.775.

RAM was on 7,3,3,2.5 too - this is Corsair TwinX3200 non LL.

Zalman keeps things cool, tops out at 51C under load. Got a new Thermaltake Al case at last. Hoping to see improved cooling with that (and a reduction in noise).

blairgowrie
11-25-2004, 07:16 AM
Much appreciated B16. I checked my RAM and it is CMX512-3200LL (twin modules). Corsair Website says 2-3-2-6 recommended.

Hope you have forgiven me for the sheep jokes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

blairgowrie
11-25-2004, 08:07 AM
Solved the mystery of the 5 frames loss. A couple of days ago, I saw a tip about setting water and effects to 2. I decided to change them both back to 1 a few minutes ago and then ran Black Death again. Frame rates jumped back up to 28 average in perfect from 22. The track also ran smooth as silk. The frame rate loss apparently had nothing to do with RAM settings.

I had no idea these conf.ini settings were so sensitive.

I may try to run the multiplier at 11.5 and the FSB at 200 to see what happens.

B16Enk
11-25-2004, 08:50 AM
Nothing to fogrive on the Sheep jokes M8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I can handle the truth from time to time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'll confirm my Corsair but pretty sure it's CMX512-3200C2, should have got the LL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

ustahl
11-25-2004, 11:19 AM
@Blairgowrie. Interesting to see what happens with your FSB 200. I tried 11.5 x 200 myself today, and it's no good. 12 x 196 is definitely the best for my almost identical hardware.
I also suggest you try the suggested Corsair memory timings, which are close to what I€m using.

For monitoring temperatures I would point out that Probe does NOT measure the temp at the CPU core (=diode) but at the socket, which is a considerably lower temp than the diode/core. There are separate sensors in the MoBo for these different temps, and Probe only reads the socket sensor. In my system the actual CPU diode/core temp is abt. 12-15C higher than the socket depending on the load. The temp difference depends on the efficiency of the cooler; the better the cooler the smaller the difference. With the Zalman I guess your CPU core temp is now actually slightly above 60C. When overclocking always keep an eye on the temps.

If you€re interested to find out all those various temps (and voltages) in a more €œprofessional€ way than Probe, the tool of choice is Motherboard Manager 5.3.7.0, get it at http://mbm.livewiredev.com. MBM checks the CPU diode/core sensor. There are configuration files for lots of MoBos and their indivdual sensors. If interested, I could mail you my MBM config file (same MoBo) to get you going.
I€m getting average 38 fps in BlackDeath with no stutters/hiccups; XP800Pro flashed to XP800 XT PE @ 523/565 (core/mem).

Pls advise how it goes.

Cheers

Uffe

Marek_Steele
11-25-2004, 11:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blairgowrie:
Much appreciated B16. I checked my RAM and it is CMX512-3200LL (twin modules). Corsair Website says 2-3-2-6 recommended.

Hope you have forgiven me for the sheep jokes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Corsair recommends the maximum your that your memory chips can take on most platforms, but normally, and for ch5 chips (as I suppose yours are), these were mainly tested with p4 setups that are much more tolerant and tRAS timmings have other effect.
On nf2 boards as yours, the best tRAS setting is not 5 (actually some defend tras for p4's as cl+trd+2, being 6 the optimum for 222) as with p4's (or 6 as your mems are rated) but 11, with gives the most memory bandwidth and stability. On the other hand, the well know best tras setting for a64's is 10, no matter what's the lowest setting the chips can take!
I suggested cl2.5 because nf2 chips tend also to have stability issues around 200mhz but mostly over with cpc (command per clock) on, the performance difference from having low trcd and trp values both with cl2 or cl2.5 is almost nothing, being the last two more important than cl alone. Bh5/6 users with mems rated 222 usually need to run 2.5-2-2 to keep such agressive trp and trcd settings at 200mhz on nf2's, but it happens too with ch5 users with some nf2's, hence my recommendation, that as you first posted, was to solve stability issues!
As an example, on your system 2.5-2-2-x (you'd need other chips to do this reliabily!) is faster than 2-3-2-x! While 2.5-3-2-x should be at least on pair with 2-3-3 as your settings were, but still upping tras to 11 can only bring bennefits, just do a sandra bandwidth test http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Being that your dimms are rated 2-3-2-6, on your nf2 system your best possible setting is 2-3-2-11. But in case of instability due to ram, upping 2.5-3-2-11 won't hurt performance in a noticeable manner, that's just it.
Other thing, don't completely relly on corsair site for memory latency, first check their sticker with timmings and most importantly, rev number, it actually can say much more. As an example, most LL's rev 1.x had bh5 and bh6 chips wich are rated 2-2-2-6, later versions (I belive after rev3.x as with LL's) had cheaper and much more common ch5 chips rated 2-3-2-6. Corsair's site just reflects the actual rattings for the chips they fit now, as ch5's aren't manufactured anymore, they might be using mosel (as ocz did in the plat series rev1 by going from ch5's to mosels) or any other brand of chips and then they'll just update their site to reflect this, no matter what were the older versions, as already happened with LL's! Please don't think I'm just trowing numbers in the air for the latecy I suggested http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

B16Enk , try 2.5-3-3-11 and do a bandwidth test too if you don't mind. Actually if you have very old C2's (from some 2 years ago) rev 1.1 not later, you have premium winbond bh's rated 2-2-2-5 wich you can safely run at 2.5-2-2-11 with some 2.75v.

Good luck!

Marek_Steele
11-25-2004, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ustahl:
If you€re interested to find out all those various temps (and voltages) in a more €œprofessional€ way than Probe, the tool of choice is Motherboard Manager 5.3.7.0, get it at http://mbm.livewiredev.com. MBM checks the CPU diode/core sensor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Usually in MBM to check your internal CPU diode temp go to settings, temperatures, select "mbm5 Sensor" CPU, and then instead of "asus 2" (or whatever is giving you the same readings as asus probe), select "ASUS 2 (CUSL2)".
The first thing you'll notice with diode readings is that temps change much faster and go way higher. Just imagine your cpu goes from idle to 100% for only 2seconds, everything inside it will heat up a lot, from cpu to cache, and this is reflected by it's internal diode reading, but externally this won't affect the socket temp very much (sensor under cpu), also full load temps are usually 10-15ºC higher as said above, and these are the ones that really count!

blairgowrie
11-25-2004, 12:31 PM
Oh my goodness! What a wealth of information.

You obviously know your stuff Marek_Steele. I'll leave my Ram settings at your recommendation and run Prime 95 Torture Test overnight.

Ustahl. I tried 11.5 @200 and it seemed quite stable. Ran Black Death and got same frame rates as 12 @195. I d/ld your Motherboard Monitor programme and it shows 0 28 45 at the bottom of my screen. Had a look at the sensor input and see there are 8 sensor options. Is this what you meant by having to load the motherboard profile? My e-mail is smithjim@sympatico.ca if you would be so kind as to e-mail it to me.

Marek_Steele
11-25-2004, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blairgowrie:
run Prime 95 Torture Test overnight.

d/ld your Motherboard Monitor programme and it shows 0 28 45 at the bottom of my screen. Had a look at the sensor input and see there are 8 sensor options <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In case your could spend a prime95 night with the settings your had before at 2-3-3-6, 2-3-2-11 should still run fine without need to up 2.5-3-2-11, again, some users need it but most don't as lowering trp from 3 to 2 isn't as agressive as doing it with tRCD (ras to cas delay).

In the post above I gave a brief explaination on how to set mbm5 to use the cpu diode instead of the socket. For the cpu sensor the diode should be the one finished "CUSL2" instead of the default "asus 2" or similar. I don't have that asus mobo, but if you just try the available alternative sensors for CPU it'll be easy to find out wich one is the internal diode read due to the temp difference.
For that zero hanging, you can get rid of it by going to settings, temperatures, select by it's name, set sensor to none, and then in "visual" don't enable it to diplay on the taskbar.
Oh, you should have selected your mobo model in the installation, if you didn't, just run the mbm5 config wizard from the start menu.
Cheers!

ustahl
11-25-2004, 03:22 PM
blairgowrie. Nice to see that you seem stable at 200 MHz. That and Marek's elaborate memory info encourage me to make some further experiments with 200 MHz and simutanous relaxed mem timings. I know, I have different brand memory, but you got me inspired. Hopefully I won't go too far to have to open the case and reset the mobohttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The MBM readings are obviously temp readings in the systray, but somewhat wrongly configured. At least the "0" must be wrong. I'll compose a mail for you with my MBM 5.ini file, which includes the correct sensor settings + possibly some screenshots. Meanwhile, these are the correct temp sensors for the A7N8X Deluxe mobo:

Case: Asus 1
Socket: Asus 2
Diode: W83L785TS-S DIODE

When changing settings in MBM, don't forget to click "Apply" to enforce the setting.

Cheers,
Uffe

blairgowrie
11-25-2004, 03:30 PM
Thanks Marek_Steele. I think I have got it now.

Have entered the correct motherboard into the set-up wizard and now showing 27 51 42. When I place the cursor on them, it confirms CPU Diode is 51C. I guess that's still OK and not too hot. I'd really like to get some 120mm fans but I don't have the heart to cut open my Lian Li case. But that may happen on my next upgrade scheduled for Spring/Summer 2005.

I am not very savvy on this but just love tweaking and living on the edge.

Thanks again for your guidance. Much appreciated. I need all the help I can get. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LuckyBoy1
11-25-2004, 03:46 PM
blairM8! I'm having trouble fingering out just what's waht here. You haven't at least communicated whether or not it was the RAM or the CPU that freaks out due to the higher clock speeds. Do as I asked with the RAm timings at default settings. Until you finger out if it's the RAM holding you back or if it's the CPU, you will just end up proceeding in a confused manner and not gain any understanding as to what's what here. You can run Prime until you are slime and never get an error that will actually show up under the load of this game.

Those temperatures you are reporting... are they the temps you get while playing Il-2? If not, you need to find out because that's where your temps will run the highest.

B16Enk
11-25-2004, 03:53 PM
@Ustahl - any chance of copying me in on that email?

roger.enkel@gmail.com Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm about to migrate to a thermaltake case that includes a CPU probe and panel temp read out, would be good to compare it's readings to MBM.

@Marek - you clearly have a good grasp of memory and it's foibles m8, I have to report the following Sandra results:

2.5,3,3,8 2914MB/s

2.5,3,3,11 2904MB/s

Whilst there is a massive http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif 10Mb/s shortfall with the relaxed timings I suspect (Ok logic dictates Spock http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) that stability is enhanced.

I thought I was using 2.5,3,3,7. I know I had tried 2,3,3,7 but the latter had resulted in instability that was not detected by Memtest or Prime...read into that what you will guys....

In short Marek's thesis stands proved in my opinion, the stability is a good price for negligible performance loss. And we are after all seeking stability here aren't we. What's the point of 2000 FPS if when at that critical moment (usually as our wheels touch down on the landing strip after a 2 or 3 kill sortie) our virtual cockpits present us with a virtual time capsule of a frozen screen, or a virtual death with a black screen with the legend 'Dual Channel Enabled' scribed thereon.

Can you tell I've bought a bottle of Bushmills today Blairgowrie? You inspired me with your mention of Scotch earlier http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As an aside, can you persuade your Rudder Pedal disliker to get you a Dremel for Christmas Blairgowrie? It would make the Lian mod so much less of a heresy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Nice to be chatting with you again.

blairgowrie
11-25-2004, 04:37 PM
B16. What you and Marek_Steele make sense to me so I will relax my settings as he suggests.

Luckyboy. Are you getting a wee bit paranoid again? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I may have to have a chat with your ex wife http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I honestly don't know if it's a RAM or a CPU problem. That's why I am trying everything that is being suggested (within reason). But you are quite right. The proof will be how it works when playing PF. Every Saturday night I fly on-line with a bunch of guys from Seattle and an Ace from Toronto(aka Cold_Gambler). Last time I played I had at least 6 crashes in a 4 hour span. We fly again this Saturday and I want to get as much tweaking done before then as possible. If there is no improvement, then I will keep tweaking until I get it right. Appreciate your input but I need to spread this thing out and get all the help I can.

B16. I have also started to consume Bushmills. It's a lot easier on the body than scotch. Also, really enjoy your subtle humour as do all your other fans. Keep it coming laddie.

LuckyBoy1
11-25-2004, 04:59 PM
HHHhhhhhmmmm, ok, I seem to not be getting my point across. What did the guy say in the movie?... What we have here, is a failure to communicate!

The best way to cut the cake as far as determining if it is a CPU vs. RAM limitation is to run up the front side buss to the point where you are having stability probelms and maybe even a bit beyond that. You keep the RAM timings at the speed the manufacturer wants them at and take it out of 1:1 and put it in 3:2 mode. This makes the CPU cycle 3 times for every 2 times the RAM cycles. If at this point, it doesn't crash in the game or otherwise, then the problem is RAM and not CPU. Of course, you'd want to keep it in 1:1 for gaming, but for diagnostic purposes, this is the drill.

It's not my drill! Do you think I've ever had an original PC idea?!... well, if so, think again! This is the drill laid out for me by Hunter82 and Joe at www.magnum-pc.com (http://www.magnum-pc.com) and you don't see either of them chiming in telling me I'm off base in this thread, now do you? So, it's fine that you disregard me, but try to at least respect the advice of Joe and Hunter82?

With that, I'm headed for a glass with a couple of cubes of ice and a nice pour of Glenlivet, because responses like the one you gave me make more sense after a few shots!

blairgowrie
11-25-2004, 05:21 PM
Which one were you Luckyboy? Paul Newman or the prison warden? Just kidding. No failure to communicate. I understand your point. I just think your underwear may be a little too tight.

I consider everyones advice but am under no obligation to act on it. Please back off.I need advice not aggression.

Marek_Steele
11-25-2004, 05:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B16Enk:
2.5,3,3,8 2914MB/s

2.5,3,3,11 2904MB/s

Whilst there is a massive http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif 10Mb/s shortfall with the relaxed timings I suspect (Ok logic dictates Spock http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) that stability is enhanced.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Repeating a sandra test can give greater error margins for such close scores. But anyway your scores seem logical, tRAS 11 is the general consense to nf2 boards (and mostly for overclock!), but honestly making the old math as with p4s cl+trcd+2 the best setting should really be 8!
There are a lot of articles around on this matter, as this one (http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=133) , or these (http://forum.hardware.fr/hardwarefr/Hardware/sujet-575878-1.htm) tests in a forum just by doing a very quick google; on this last link you can see a pifast test where 8 and 10-11 seem to be sweet spots again, but not originaly rated 5's or 6's. Since nf2's launch people seem to have sticked to tras 11 over 5 (the most agressive possible and usually the first choice), but more than a slight bandwidth vantage, systems seem to overlock somewhat better.
But using lower trcd or trp might yeld diferent results as in the end, timmings are all dependent.
I guess you'll have worse scores between [5,7] and [9,10} being 8 and 11 are the sweet spots. If you don't mind, it would also be nice to see your score at 2.5-3-3-6 wich is what your mems are rated for amd's unlike intel IIRC.

Again, with CH5 LL's there's only need to up to cl2.5 from cl2 in case instability comes from here, else cl2 should still be used as mems were rated for. Now for tRAS, as you can see for my posts above, it's really a personal taste, lower doesn't always mean better as with p4's where 5 and 6 rule.

Luckyboy said some very important points on how to determine if it's a cpu or mem bottleneck, if 51ºC is just your idle temp, chances are you are going way higher when playing. Notice that after some point, increasing cpu voltage will generate instability due to more heat produced, it's all a matter or sweep spot.
Now for il2 being better than memtest to uncover stability issues, I can't agree more! But now for prime95 that's another matter http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif,take in account il2 is far from a rock stable product alone. AGP voltage settings (on most mobos they affect NB) can even influence prime results, true that pci buses don't get as saturated, but the most important ones are (unlike with mestest that doesn't saturate cache etc) and every fail will lead to error, while the same sort of minimal ocasional errors in il2 won't always produce catastrophic errors.

LuckyBoy1
11-25-2004, 06:01 PM
Now for il2 being better than memtest to uncover stability issues, I can't agree more! But now for prime95 that's another matter ,take in account il2 is far from a rock stable product alone. AGP voltage settings (on most mobos they affect NB) can even influence prime results, true that pci buses don't get as saturated, but the most important ones are (unlike with mestest that doesn't saturate cache etc) and every fail will lead to error, while the same sort of minimal ocasional errors in il2 won't always produce catastrophic errors.


That's exactly what I thought too!!! However, for some reason... and I'm too computer stupid to finger out just what it is... there is something about the PCI buss loading and the loops back around and around again that the video card seems to want to do that takes something as trivial as a pass back by the RAM and does it so many times that all of a sudden, it becomes a possible point of problems.

I'm not saying Prime is not good or useless. All I'm saying is that I knwo several IT Pro's who do something you'd think was complete knockers when you first hear it. They load IL-2 Forgotten battles on the PC they've repaired and put the Black Death in a loop. They run the PC for 24 hours and if the game hasn't crashed, they declare the PC fixed! Is this a complete method of diagnosing a business PC? You'd think not, but it serves them well!

B16Enk
11-26-2004, 02:26 AM
Marek, I'll try your suggestions this weekend and report back here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Blairgowrie, yes Bushmills is a little easier isn't it! And thanks for the compliment on the humour, it's my little attempt to promote sanity on the boards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Black Death as a soak test....1C:Maddox should capitalise on that, wouldn't take much to package it as a dedicated application http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ednew
11-26-2004, 03:39 AM
Absolutly excellent thread. Marek, very informative and explained so it is understood by a dummy like me.
THANKS

blairgowrie
11-26-2004, 12:11 PM
I tried running Prime 95 last night but for some strange reason, I couldn't get past the first test. The test did not fail; the program just locked up.

This morning I took out Prime 95 and d/'ld a more recent version and have been running it all morning. Passed every test so far and I will run it again tonight for 12 hours.

I really have to apologies to you Luckyboy, if you are listening. I took a couple of shots at you yesterday and I feel awful about it. I know you are trying to help. You can't be a bad guy if you drink Glenlivet! Sorry Lucky. I will try your suggestions re the Ram test. Just a lot of stuff going through my head yesterday.

Many thanks to Ustahl for e-mailing his profile for Motherboard Monitor. Much appreciated.

steve_v
11-26-2004, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blairgowrie:
I tried running Prime 95 last night but for some strange reason, I couldn't get past the first test. The test did not fail; the program just locked up.
This morning I took out Prime 95 and d/'ld a more recent version and have been running it all morning. Passed every test so far and I will run it again tonight for 12 hours. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Slightly OT. What version Prime are you now running? Had the same experience as you and quit using it last year. Your positive input tells me I should give the new version a go.
Don't have any insight to help you reach 200 FSB, so will just wish you well.

Marek_Steele
11-26-2004, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blairgowrie:
This morning I took out Prime 95 and d/'ld a more recent version and have been running it all morning. Passed every test so far and I will run it again tonight for 12 hours.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need version 2.38 to test 1gb mem, the older version had random fatal errors with over 512mb, this was the reason many people stopped using prime, but it's now fixed. Sorry I didn't point it out before.

blairgowrie
11-26-2004, 02:18 PM
Thanks Marek. I thought there must have been a problem.

Steve. You can get it here: http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

I must say it seems a lot smoother than before. No problem with not being able to give me advice on 200 FSB. If I can run at 195 x 12 and stable, I will be more than happy. I will never forget the pm you sent me after I first overclocked congratulating me on sticking with it. Meant a lot to me. Hunter, Ivan, Gurypuddle and Cold_Gambler were the guys who coached me through it.

Jim81
11-26-2004, 05:45 PM
Hi mates , im here too to talk about my overclocking attempts ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif first of all i use Pacific Fighters to benchmark performances and stability of my sistem (really no other application can reveal problems better than this simulator !! )

well : this is my Config :

Abit nf7-s rev 2.0
Cpu Barton 2500
512 + 512 Mb Geil DDR 3200 dual channel
PSU Thermaltake Silent Pure Power 480W
Asus 6800 gt 128 mb (standard clock)

my aim is to pass from 2500 to 3200 setting 200x11 cause the multiplier is blocked . Well if i make start the sistem with 200x11 the game doesnt load the mission so i started lowering the FSb and reached stability with 193..194 x11 that is good but not my aim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif the timings i have are : 8-4-4-2,5 dual channel mode and 1:1 .
so my questions are :
1- Do you suggest me to try higher FSB with 3:2 mode ?
2- Am i forced to overvolt cpu from 1.65 going higher (ex: 1.75 ? ) to obtain stability 200x11

i tried to make timings 11-3-3-2.5 but nothing changed and using a Cooler Master X Dream at low speed im at 51 degrees in full load.

Jim81
11-26-2004, 05:53 PM
oh forgot to say that actually maybe its a coincidence i reached stability with this value of the motherboard :

CPu FSB/Dram Ratio by SPD , the previous attempts with higher fsb..have been all made with this settings selected to Auto. I should now test stability setting this "voice" back to Auto. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

what do you suggest me again ?

Sorry for the long replies! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Weather_Man
11-26-2004, 06:27 PM
I've had to bump vcore to 1.725 and vdimm to 1.7 to play PF stable at 11x200. Some say they've needed a higher vcore of 1.75 or 1.775, but I've been lucky with mine. If you have a decent after-market heat sink, this shouldn't be a problem, temp-wise. I'm still at under 50c (now that's it's cold out) with these settings.

Dram ratio should be 1:1 (auto), 400mhz with pc3200 and a 200 FSB.

Jim81
11-27-2004, 03:37 AM
thanks for the answer..ok..well i dont know what to do..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I must admitt that keeping 194x11 = 21...Mhz is pretty good and the game runs smooth with no ****tering at 1280x960 with Perfect Mode .I could prevent my cpu from "burning" rising the Cpu voltage http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . i dont know if 100 mghz more ( with 200x11 ) would give so much performance than staying to 194x11 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif...i ll do some more test http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do you think it would be good idea to keep 194x11 and try to lower memory timings..?

now im with 8-4-4-2.5 what configuration would you try if you were me ? something like 11-3-3-2.5 is it ok ? or ...let me know im moving my first steps in the dark overclock world ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jim81
11-27-2004, 03:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim81:
thanks for the answer..ok..well i dont know what to do..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I must admitt that keeping 194x11 = 21...Mhz is pretty good and the game runs smooth with no ****tering at 1280x960 with Perfect Mode .I could prevent my cpu from "burning" keeping the Cpu voltage in default mode http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . i dont know if 100 mghz more ( with 200x11 ) would give so much performance than staying to 194x11 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif...i ll do some more test http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do you think it would be good idea to keep 194x11 and try to lower memory timings..?

now im with 8-4-4-2.5 what configuration would you try if you were me ? something like 11-3-3-2.5 is it ok ? or ...let me know im moving my first steps in the dark overclock world ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weather_Man
11-27-2004, 05:03 AM
You can always go back to what you know works well if you find it doesn't like the higher FSB. There is little danger of frying the CPU as long as you stay under 1.8v.

I would try the 11-3-3-2.5 and 200x11 and see how it goes. Worst case, it won't boot and you'll have to reset the CMOS.

blairgowrie
11-27-2004, 06:27 AM
Well it looks like I have stability at 195 x 12 @ 1.775v. I have been running Prime 95 for the past 14 hours with no failures. According to Motherboard Monitor, idle temp is 49C and load during torture test was 55C.

I may drop the voltage to 1.75 and see if that makes any difference and try Luckyboy's suggestions but otherwise I am very satisfied.

This has been a very worthwhile exercise and I have learned a lot. Thanks Uffe for recommending Motherboard Monitor and for your help in installing it. And thanks to all others who have provided advice.

Jim81
11-27-2004, 06:39 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Weather_Man:
You can always go back to what you know works well if you find it doesn't like the higher FSB. There is little danger of frying the CPU as long as you stay under 1.8v.

Sorry i didnt understand well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif you meant that even if i leave 1.65 v default vcore value i risk to burn the cpu ??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

i thought to be safe from burning cause temps are actually low also in full load ! max 51 degrees. !

Weather_Man
11-27-2004, 10:51 AM
No, I meant that it won't burn the CPU, even with slightly higher voltage. Setting it higher won't harm anything.

Jim81
11-28-2004, 10:43 AM
oh sorry i didnt understand ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif well i knew that overvolting over 1.8v could burn the cpu cause its obvious that more power generates more heat !