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View Full Version : Joy, joy and more joy!



XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:31 PM
I bought my first FF joystick last week, a Logitech Wingman force 3d.

So I was prompted to install FBs again (was holding out for the patch)

What a huge difference!

The force feedback (though needed adjusting) really lets you push your aircraft to the extreme quite safely.

Force feedback is totaly recomended!



"Do unto others before they do unto you"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:31 PM
I bought my first FF joystick last week, a Logitech Wingman force 3d.

So I was prompted to install FBs again (was holding out for the patch)

What a huge difference!

The force feedback (though needed adjusting) really lets you push your aircraft to the extreme quite safely.

Force feedback is totaly recomended!



"Do unto others before they do unto you"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:38 PM
yes iyt is.....

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:42 PM
i completely agree -- I have a FF2 myself. after going FF i wouldnt fly a sim again without it. it really does allow you to fly the plane right on the edge of stalling without worrying. you can feel the different levels of buffeting as the stall approaches, and that really makes a difference in how hard you can push the plane, especially down on the deck. and all the rest of the fun effects like guns, wheel bounce, turbulence, damage, "heavy" controls at high speed, etc. add to the immersion and realism.
everyone who tries a FF joystick seems to have the same reaction too..they love it. downside, of course, is the cost.......

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:54 PM
Yeah I can't beleve I put up with my old Wingman for so long. In the end I had to "manualy" calibrate it because it was so far gone.

Authough, I have noticed the quality of Logitech Joys have sufferd over the years. Even the high end ones are pretty tinny. My old Wingman weighed a ton and was made out of rubbery plastic.

But hey, FF more than makes up for it.



"Do unto others before they do unto you"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 06:42 PM
I have that Logitech stick too.Bought it for a FF tryout,did not like it.I know you have to have some work it in time for a new stick but that one I could not put up with.Stalled all the time trying to countermove the stick which flapped all over,and that loosness,no spring at all(maybe that´s how it´s on ff sticks?)About extreme pushing I listen to the sound.Although I liked the no FF stick version.



Message Edited on 08/05/0305:45PM by Superluminal

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:18 PM
FF = No thanks

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------47|FC=-
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/perdomo3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:23 PM
I love my force feedback. My only complaint is that the gun rattle is so strong that it makes accuracy impossible for me. When I fly with force feedback, I can control the plane better, but when it comes time to shoot, the spray goes everywhere except where I try to put it. When I turn it off, I shoot OK but stall more often in the turns. Does anyone have any advice. I am using the old Logitech Wingman Force. This is the big, tough model. Any help is appreciated!

The F4U Corsair won the war!!!

http://www.x-plane.org/users/aonyn/Screenshots/Leisure_Chair_Aerobat_reduced_square.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:25 PM
I haven't found many problems with the stick.

The buttons are in some wierd positions but thats probably from using the same joystick for four years.
The hat switch is flat which I dislike, But the strike force Joy with the conical hat switch was twice as much as the force 3d. for $109.00 Aus the force 3d is good value.

I needed to adjust the centering force though, I found it to strong to fly with. But the FF effects are great left on the default settings.

"Do unto others before they do unto you"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:29 PM
I have some advice for you. Practice

Practice until you can see the edge of the performance envelope with your eyes. Older pilots can sense the approach of a stall through many visual and instrument cues. Learn about each airplanes performance curves at various altitudes and then practice them. Until your not even thinking about it.

Another bright note, once you "get it" it very quickly transfers to new sims.

http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/phist.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:38 PM
I quit using FF - when you alt out of the game (ie. fix comms, etc...) you lose the FF.

It's too bad too - FF increases the immersion - but I've had too many times I've lost the FF and it ruins that mission - especially when you are host and can't exit!

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Wars Virtual War
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Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:55 PM
True practice makes perfect.

Having played up until recently with a non force feedback joy I vary rarely stalled.

Il2 is great at giving audio and visual clues when a stall is iminent. And with practice you can fly your aircraft on the ragged edge without a FF.

But It certainly helps with a properly set up FF joystick.
for example: After almost exclusivly flying bf 109s since the original Il2 release without a FF joy I would like to think I could hold my own in the 109 with or without FF.

But after flying th FW 190 in the campaign I found it hard to get the most out of it without alot of practice. Practice which I thought was a waste of time and frustration before the patch release. Today I few it in some quick battles and I found that with the FF I was able to get alot more out of it than previously. Almost immediatly I was able to push the aircraft to the extreme simply because I could feel the stall.

It definatly sped up the learning process in the 190 for me. Just waiting for the patch to increase its high speed handling before getting too used to it.

"Do unto others before they do unto you"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:04 PM
I can't imagine flying without FF, it would ruin the immersion for me. Plus, as someone else said, I can easily tell when a plane is at its absolute limits. I would recommend getting Smokin's FF files and use them to replace the original files of the same name. You can find them near the top of Olegs ready room forum under "FF and bad weather" thread or something like that.

When I read the title of this thread I thought that Stimpy had finally visited us here at the forum.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:04 PM
I tried Logitech Force 3d adn was dissapointed. All FF gives you is shakes when you fire, which is nice. I was looking for FF stick mainly to get real control feedback wich it doesn't deliver. The FF stick doesnt have a clear neutral position, and feedback doesn't increase wen you push the stick harder in the turn.

Good old spring does it for me for now.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:09 PM
Thanks kyrule2 will check them out.

"Do unto others before they do unto you"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:40 PM
yes..FF is great, the thing i like most is you can feel the buffeting right before a spin. As far as Logitec, ive had 2 of them and found they dont last long,and the control is not too precise, although thier customer service is great! they sent me a new 1 without even having to send the broken 1 back.Alas.it only lasted a few months as well.

I've have a microsoft FF2 for well over a year now,and its as good as the day i bought it. Even though its almost twice as expensive, its money and time saved as far as im concerned not having to constantly be replacing sticks.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:48 PM
You guys can't hear,and see the shake before a stall in FB? Why do you need your stick shaking too? I don't need the stick shaking when i'm trying to aim/fire.

Do you think the stick shook when the guns were firing in RL?

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------47|FC=-
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/perdomo3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 09:23 PM
BuzzU wrote:

- Do you think the stick shook when the guns were
- firing in RL?
-

Probably.

In his book "An Ace of the Eighth" Norman Fortier says that when he was flying the Jug, firing all the .50s would cause the planes speed to drop by 20 mph. Powerful stuff. So I imagine the breeches on 8 of those guns would rattle you as they opened and closed hundreds of times per minute.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 12:50 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- You guys can't hear,and see the shake before a stall
- in FB? Why do you need your stick shaking too? I
- don't need the stick shaking when i'm trying to
- aim/fire.
-
- Do you think the stick shook when the guns were
- firing in RL?
-
-
- Da Buzz
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------47|FC=-
- <center>
<img
- src="http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/perdomo3.
- jpg">
-
yes..i can hear the sound of the wind before a stall,but i also like to feel it. also my stick supports adjustment of the FF levels.I only feel a small vibration when i fire guns, not enough to throw off my aim, (which isnt all that great anyway) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif i imagine thats what happenes in real life. like the other guy said...all those guns or cannons firing had to have some effect on the stick

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 01:57 AM
Buzz, I can feel the stall coming much better, and I don't have to look or listen for anything. The stick barely shakes at all, actually it feels perfect and I hate flying without it. I would have to pay attention for stall, but with FF by now it is instinct.

And yes, from what I have read pilots say they didn't hear the guns firing so much as they felt the vibration in the stick/plane. But this likely differs with each plane.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 08/06/0301:24AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 02:15 AM
If they made a quality stick like the CH in FF. I'd consider it.

I don't want anything made in Taiwan, or China, or whatever.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------47|FC=-
<center>
"No Guts No Glory"
<center>
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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 06:11 AM
Thanks to all the gentlemen who replied to my plea for help in the middle of this page. I will certainly go to Oleg's Ready Room to find that replacement file and give it a try. I hope it makes it feel better to me, but if not, I think I will spend time getting used to no FF. I am sure the guns would shake you up some in RL, but the way my stick currently jerks around seems ridiculous. It is a shame because in all other ways, the FF is very immersive. I am keeping my fingers crossed as I go download these tweaked files.
Thanks again guys.

The F4U Corsair won the war!!!

http://www.x-plane.org/users/aonyn/Screenshots/Leisure_Chair_Aerobat_reduced_square.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 06:15 AM
Aonyn, you can also just delete the "machinegun" and "autocannon" files in the FF folder I believe. I may be wrong but I'm sure someone can tell you how to disable just the guns, I know it can be done.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 06:23 AM
Thanks,
I will make backup of the original files and try both ways. I will stick with whichever method feel better. I appreciate everyones' responses.

The F4U Corsair won the war!!!

http://www.x-plane.org/users/aonyn/Screenshots/Leisure_Chair_Aerobat_reduced_square.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 09:10 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- If they made a quality stick like the CH in FF. I'd
- consider it.
-
- I don't want anything made in Taiwan, or China, or
- whatever.
-
-
- Da Buzz

FFB2 is a very good quality product, should last for years no problems /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

And if all these 'expert' pilots flying without FF can push the envelope without it, why are they still moaning about always stalling the P40 and P47? With FF, I've never stalled either going into a tight turn.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 11:34 AM
It woul be amazing if the gunners could be joystick/forcefeedback controled instead of the mouse.

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 02:59 PM
Thanks Kyrule2,
Those files are much better than the default.

The F4U Corsair won the war!!!

http://www.x-plane.org/users/aonyn/Screenshots/Leisure_Chair_Aerobat_reduced_square.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 11:08 PM
I dont use any stick shake for the guns..I just like the flight characteristics of FFB.. When you get a wing shot up you can feel it..as far as how the plane handles. I have had my MSFFB2 for going on 3 years..I gave it to my son and started using my spare but it still works fine. Between the pedlas, the FFB and the X45 throttle/button bay setup I am there as far as immersion goes..now if i could just get that 3G system with the 2G of hot ram and the 9800Pro256... with the 6.1 surround , speakers, flight chair and 21" monitor I would be set...../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif as it is I will have to just suck it up and stick with my current rig. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 03:17 AM
Hey Bearcat, if you can get to a computer show you can find a used 21 inch monitor very cheap. The best purchase I have made by far is my ViewSonic P810 21-inch professional series monitor for $170! (normally it is quite expensive, I have seen them selling used on the internet for close to $350!) The monitor has 1 tiny (and I mean tiny) scratch that is not even visible when its on. I have recieved alot of compliments on this monitor and I got it cheaper than most of my computer components. I would be careful who to buy from though. Anyway, it is worth checking out, I couldn't be happier and I have had no problems at all.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.