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View Full Version : O.T. Talk about a ***edited***, take a look at this.......



VFS-214_Hawk
03-24-2007, 04:33 PM
****Edit Start****

ok I edited everything. What was an attention getter turned into a stupidity race, my bad! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Take a good look at Olimp's 1/72 scale Curtiss P-6E Hawk. Then take a good look at the 82% scale replica photo. What ya think? Think its the same?

Photo information:
Photographer: Jim Koeprick
Published: EAA COVER "Sport Aviation" Feb 1998
Photo Owner: Me
Copy Right Owner: Jim (photographer) or the EAA (uncertain)
Subject: Don Sauser's 82% scale P-6E powered by a chevy ZZ4 crate engine.

The main reason I posted this was because I noticed that Olimp used an 82% scale replica for the photo instead of the real thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

****edit complete****

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/OLI72006.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/HawkSportAviationbac.jpg

Curtiss P-6E Hawk (http://www.curtisshawkp6e.com/)

ploughman
03-24-2007, 04:35 PM
You've been robbed mate.

berg417448
03-24-2007, 04:52 PM
Yup...you've been robbed indeed!

I guess they thought changing that tiny bit of fairing where the right landing gear connects to the fuselage would be enough to keep you from noticing!

Ratsack
03-24-2007, 05:00 PM
Nah, it's just a coincidence! Obviously. You're just paranoid...what was that sound?

Ratsack

VFS-214_Hawk
03-24-2007, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by berg417448:
Yup...you've been robbed indeed!

I guess they thought changing that tiny bit of fairing where the right landing gear connects to the fuselage would be enough to keep you from noticing!

Actually there a few more changes than that. The ailerons, flying wires on top of the tail, the prop and a few minor details. But there are two things for the dead give away.

The pilot is exactly the same and the strut under the horizontal stabilizer is on the scale hawk but was flying wires on the real hawk.

BTW, the pilot is test pilot Ken Everson. Note the larger modern goggles. Back then they had no more than the B-6 goggles. Also, this is an 82% scale...the pilot looks smaller in the full scale real Hawk...hehehehehehehehe

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

WWSpinDry
03-24-2007, 05:31 PM
The box cover looks like it might have been hand-painted using the photo as a reference. Photoshopped and processed with a filter to make it look painted, at the very least.

TC_Stele
03-24-2007, 05:46 PM
Wow, even the tail wheels are slightly off to the side in both shots.

heywooood
03-24-2007, 05:47 PM
all that aside the P-6e is one of my favorite bipe's and wouldn't it be great to have a sim dedicated to the Golden Age of Aviation?

Fairchilds and Hawks and Shrikes etc...

VFS-214_Hawk
03-24-2007, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by heywooood:
all that aside the P-6e is one of my favorite bipe's and wouldn't it be great to have a sim dedicated to the Golden Age of Aviation?

Fairchilds and Hawks and Shrikes etc...

Man yeah!!! ...and Goshawks too!

Bearcat99
03-24-2007, 09:02 PM
Yeah but... if you didnt take the picture and you didnt paint the plane.. how is it theft?

VFS-214_Hawk
03-24-2007, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Yeah but... if you didnt take the picture and you didnt paint the plane.. how is it theft?

I explained that in my first post...

DeerHunterUK
03-25-2007, 06:54 AM
Maybe Olimp models bought the rights to the picture aswell? It wouldn't be stealing then.

WWSpinDry
03-25-2007, 06:55 AM
The original poster added some text underneath the pictures in the first post; I missed it first read-through, too. It explains the "thief" thing.

VFS-214_Hawk
03-25-2007, 07:59 AM
lol,another post going off the deep end. I will edit my post and move that important info to the top!

Bearcat99
03-25-2007, 12:26 PM
Maybe I'm just thick,.....

BrewsterPilot
03-25-2007, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Maybe I'm just thick,.....

+1...
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

TX-Gunslinger
03-25-2007, 12:48 PM
What I see that's the most compelling is the position of the shadow's and the pilots head.

Photoshopped for sure.

S~

Gunny

major_setback
03-25-2007, 01:03 PM
The photographer obviosly liked the painting and set up a real life scenario requiring the building of an 82 % scale replica painted to resemble the picture.
You have to admire his painstaking attention to detail. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

mmitch10
03-25-2007, 02:58 PM
Sorry to be stupid but I'm not sure when you say "I purchased my photo from the EAA" if you mean you purchased permission to use the photo, or if you purchased the copyright subsisting in the photo. It's an important distinction. It's like buying any sort of artwork, you have bought the right to use the physical object (or JPEG or whatever) but you might not own the right to control who else can use it. For the UK position on this, check out http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy.htm The position is similar in most other countries, not sure about the US though.

Gibbage1
03-25-2007, 03:31 PM
Its very very common for an artist to place a real life photo in the background and paint on top of it when doing a matt painting. Some may consider it theft, but in reality, there are no original idea's in art. Everything is inspired by something. When I do 3D models, I use photograhs and 3 view drawings like this also, by putting them in the background. Am I stealing? Plagerism is a big offense, and there are clear and defined rules. You need to change at least 20% of the original in order to be considered not plagerizing. He covered 100% of it with his own drawing.

This artist took the easy way out, yes, but I dont think he did any wrong.

FritzGryphon
03-25-2007, 03:45 PM
It's 100% his drawing I'm sure. But it's 0% his image. The artist changed nothing.

Had the artist used this as reference to draw a proper P-6E with a different paint job from a different angle, I'd call it reference.

This one is no better than photocopying out of a book, despite whatever legalities the artist may hide behind.

I've traced and sampled colors before, but I always make sure the final result doesn't resemble the original at all. If not a matter of law, then one of self respect. Copying photographs has to be about the most cynical and soulless job there is.

Philipscdrw
03-25-2007, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by heywooood:
all that aside the P-6e is one of my favorite bipe's and wouldn't it be great to have a sim dedicated to the Golden Age of Aviation?

Fairchilds and Hawks and Shrikes etc... Golden Age of Aviation = 1945 to 1957, IMO, before Duncan Sandys became Britain's Most Terrible Defence Minister Ever In The History Of Ever. High-powered piston aircraft, a huge variety of all types of aircraft...

BillyTheKid_22
03-25-2007, 06:03 PM
http://www.modellbau-universe.de/uploadfiles/original/cla_48444.jpg



http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

heywooood
03-25-2007, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
all that aside the P-6e is one of my favorite bipe's and wouldn't it be great to have a sim dedicated to the Golden Age of Aviation?

Fairchilds and Hawks and Shrikes etc...

Man yeah!!! ...and Goshawks too! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


DOOD - How cool would it be to dock a Goshawk on the Macon...the ol' trapeze trap. Man - talk about bochy balls...imagine night operations.

Do you get the 'Aviation History' mag?

Beauty article in there about the Macon with a spread illustration of it in 'cutaway' so you can see the layout.

She stored four Goshawks internally. They have found her resting place in the Pacific.

Submersibles have taken stunning photos of the wreckage.

Apparently only two of the crew were lost so it could have been worse.

check it out... (http://montereybay.noaa.gov/research/macon/macon.html)

kinda like the Enterprise and her shuttlecraft in a way....awright so I watched it a few times back in the day, lighten up.

WarWolfe_1
03-25-2007, 08:07 PM
well if you study the tilt of the pilots head there is diffrence there, among other things. Photoshopped or hand painted, there is enough diffrence to make it a mote point.

Being that this is a product made by a model company I'm sure they have the rights or premession to use the photo, altered or not.

heywooood
03-25-2007, 09:43 PM
yeah...just like UBI the big vidya game publisher had the rights to use Northrup/Grumma....ermmmm oh yeah

VFS-214_Hawk
03-26-2007, 05:25 AM
hehehe haywood...that was the Sparrowhawk