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View Full Version : `full switch` is not `realistic` ?



SeaFireLIV
05-29-2005, 04:09 AM
This is not a flame discussion and I don`t want to go through who`s right or wrong as a player/flyer, but...

It just occurred to me that while I tend to say I`m a full real flyer, I`m not actually a `full switch` flyer.

I sometimes get the 2 mixed up. Let me explain.

On my difficulty selections I always have:

No external views to off.
No instant success to off.

Does this mean I`m not a full real flyer, even though in the menu if I had all this on it would be considered by the menu as Realistic?

No.

I have external views on not to cheat while flying, but so I can look at my own aircraft on take off and (after I land or get shot down) I can view how my AI squadm8s did. Also, the graphics of the aircraft are still too good to miss.

`No Instant Success` to ON is definitely NOT realistic even though it`s included as `Realistic` on full switch in the menu. Pilots did not have to restart every identical mission cos they failed it the first time. The pilot might be sent on a similar straight away, but not go back through time to redo the same thing. So that should NOT be in the REALISTIC section.

With these settings, I`ve always considered it realisic, but it`s actually not realistic to IL2`s settings...

Interesting... Full switch is not in my humble opinion Realistic. I consider myself a full real flyer, but not a full switch flyer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Just a thought.

NorrisMcWhirter
05-29-2005, 04:19 AM
Externals on is probably the biggest killer of realism in this game. It has several problems including people using it for 'radar' to find the enemy, used to assist in turn fights, used to prevent sneaking up on an opponent not to mention checking to see if gear is down after a mission/level of damage etc.

It's nice to see things going on but it's less "realistic", to me, than using the WW view.

Cheers,
Norris

pacettid
05-29-2005, 04:37 AM
"Different strokes, for different folks".

If you don't like icons, external views, etc., and want to find like-minded folks, here is where we hang out:


FISC (http://gofisc.com/)


http://atlas.palomo.dyndns.org/fisc/forum/templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif

No hidden agendas, no strong-arming, and no politics

Platypus_1.JaVA
05-29-2005, 04:46 AM
When I fly offline missions, I always use outside view. Not only because the AI has an edge over any human player but, also to look a bit outside to some eyecandy during long missions.

When I fly online, I would prefer only the speedbar on. Outside views should be off because it just is not realistic. If everything is right, all the difficuty settings apply to all pilots. So, looking out of the cockpit, spotting and intercepting incoming contacts and setting up an attack will come close to what real WWII pilots had to do to get a kill. This way, the pilots who sees the other one first, will have better chances of winning the engagement. That is why I am against any form of Icons in an online engagement. Some people prefer friendly icons only. However, that means that any contact who doesn't have an icon or, a grey one, is an enemy. And all the effect of no-outside view is lost. Anyways, Icons ruin the gameplay for me because you are focussing on detecting them and, it looks extremly unrealistic to me.

Il-2 was for me the ultimate sim to let me feel what WWII pilots felt, taking all the limitations of a PC in consideration. Maybe some modern day jetfighters can project radar blips as icons on the glasses of the pilot but, that wasn't the case in WWII so, I won't use icons much.

DarkBlueMan
05-29-2005, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
...I consider myself a full real flyer, but not a full switch flyer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
Just a thought.

No External Views = off

I don't think anyone will consider you a 'full real' flyer with externals on. The aircraft might be handling in a more realistic way but SA is a different story.

Taylortony
05-29-2005, 06:05 AM
Believe me sitting in a real Spit and sitting in these will tell you your living a pipe dream if you think its full real, I have a heck of a better view in a real Spit than anything you have here, same goes for the likes of the Mustang and 190's I have sat in....... for one you can crank your head over to get a better look behind you

chertio
05-29-2005, 06:35 AM
I agree with Taylortony, the view out back is not as good as that which a pilot who was peering around would get. It is also very slow to turn the view from left rear to right rear, no silk scarf needed for sure.

Maybe a new "check your six" view showing what a pilot who was really trying would see? Beats sailing all over the sky looking over one shoulder.

SeaFireLIV
05-29-2005, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
Externals on is probably the biggest killer of realism in this game. It has several problems including people using it for 'radar' to find the enemy, used to assist in turn fights....It's nice to see things going on but it's less "realistic", to me, than using the WW view.

Cheers,
Norris

Ok, my fault. I should have mentioned this is flying OFFLINE in a Campaign. As I said before I NEVER use externals to fly or fight, I stay rigidly in the pit. I guess it`s a simple form of self control.

ONLINE is different, I REFUSE to go on servers with EXTERNALS on, because I know people will use it to cheat and see where they otherwise couldn`t.

Guess I should`ve made that clear, but it was early in the day...

Retrofish
05-29-2005, 07:42 AM
Offline I always have external views enabled.
So much to look at...and many of my missions ends without me being alive. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Online I find having them off preferable.


Originally posted by DarkBlueMan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
...I consider myself a full real flyer, but not a full switch flyer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
Just a thought.

No External Views = off

I don't think anyone will consider you a 'full real' flyer with externals on. The aircraft might be handling in a more realistic way but SA is a different story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Scuse me.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif what do you mean by 'The aircraft might be handling in a more realistic way' ?

DarkBlueMan
05-29-2005, 08:10 AM
The aircraft will be handling in a more realstic way with the relevent switches on, such as 'stalls and spins'. Wether the aircraft handles in a realistic way overall is a matter of opinion. It will certainly be handling in a more realistic manner with the switches on than with them off.

Seafire considers himself to fly 'full real'. I would assume most of his difficulty switches are set 'on'.

When trying to simulate a 'realistic' flying experience you really shouldn't be able to jump outside your aircraft, have a look around, then jump back in.

BM357_Hitcher
05-29-2005, 08:19 AM
I click on this little button that Oleg Maddox, the creator of the game, put in for difficulty settings. The button says, "REALISM". It is the most difficult setting and, according to Oleg Maddox, it is the most REALISTIC setting available in this game.

Hunde_3.JG51
05-29-2005, 12:49 PM
I think the whole "full realism" discussion/debate is a bit silly. The bottom line is fly what you like. I call myself a full switch flyer, or sometimes full difficulty, but never full real simply because people debate what "full real" is and I don't want to argue http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Like I said, fly what you like. Who cares what other people think. Myself, I prefer no icons, no externals, no padlock, no map icons, etc., so this is where I hang out also http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif:

http://www.gofisc.com/

But we don't snub our noses at people who like alternative settings, different strokes for different folks. Its not a matter of right or wrong its just a matter of preference, nothing more, nothing less. For us it is about immersion, that is what we enjoy. People will have their own ideas about what is more "realistic", and people will continue to argue about it. Personally, I would rather just fly on servers with my preferred settings and let others do the debating.

AerialTarget
05-29-2005, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by DarkBlueMan:
I don't think anyone will consider you a 'full real' flyer with externals on.

That's tough, isn't it? As Taylor Tony says, it's much easier to see and keep track of things from a cockpit in real life. Rather than suffer a huge unrealistic disadvantage, I'd rather suffer a moderate unrealistic advantage. The last thing I want to do when I fly is manipulate buttons to do something like turning my head, which in real life is the most basic and natural motion in the world. There's been too many times when, in a scissors or something, I've lost track of an enemy when in real life my head would be centered on him with no effort on my part. No more!

In addition, I have a CH Products joystick. The hat is very high on the stick and it has always been difficult for me to pull it downward. Since getting it, I have suffered permanent thumb injuries on both hands that make using a joystick at all painful. I have no intention of making it worse by fiddling with the hat constantly.

As some of you here are tired of hearing, I have a few hours in a real airplane. Well, for what it's worth, I say that "full realistic" isn't realistic at all. In particular, the view system in question is not close to realistic when set to "realistic."

LeadSpitter_
05-29-2005, 02:47 PM
they just cannot handle the skill it takes, but fortunatly the game has difficulty levels for all playertypes which makes everyone happy.

flyplenty
05-29-2005, 02:59 PM
"Full real" would be more accurate with a wraparound screen and some hydraulics under my chair. Since that won't be happening I just treat this as a game and little else. I still haven't gotten around to learning the peculiarities of the engine controls, for instance. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BuzzU
05-29-2005, 03:04 PM
Some of you must copy/paste your answers.

That isn't realistic.

Hunde_3.JG51
05-29-2005, 03:09 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. I admit it Buzz, I copied my answer into the "realistic realism" thread. But the topics are generally the same.

I admit it though, its not very realistic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif.

Retrofish
05-29-2005, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by DarkBlueMan:
The aircraft will be handling in a more realstic way with the relevent switches on, such as 'stalls and spins'. Wether the aircraft handles in a realistic way overall is a matter of opinion. It will certainly be handling in a more realistic manner with the switches on than with them off.

Seafire considers himself to fly 'full real'. I would assume most of his difficulty switches are set 'on'.

When trying to simulate a 'realistic' flying experience you really shouldn't be able to jump outside your aircraft, have a look around, then jump back in.


Right. Sorry, I guess I misread your first post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I thought you meant that the aircraft handling would be more realistic when in external view http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

BM357_Hitcher
05-29-2005, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
Some of you must copy/paste your answers.

That isn't realistic.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

A bit sensitive, eh?

SeaFireLIV
05-29-2005, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by DarkBlueMan:
Seafire considers himself to fly 'full real'. I would assume most of his difficulty switches are set 'on'.

That`s correct. All are on except the 2 I mentioned

When trying to simulate a 'realistic' flying experience you really shouldn't be able to jump outside your aircraft, have a look around, then jump back in.

Well I still have the external option because I like to have a look at my aircraft just before take off (as if on the airfield going to it as you would have seen in reality) and get a good idea of the Squad line up.

The only other time I use it is if I get shot down or land. For me this is simulating the `debrief` account of the dogfight going on without me. It means when its all over I`ll know from HQ or surviving pilots how things went.

It`s also a nice way to view the excellent graphics. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Amazing how complex it can become trying to say something so simple.

DarkBlueMan
05-29-2005, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Retrofish:
Right. Sorry, I guess I misread your first post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif...
I thought you meant that the aircraft handling would be more realistic when in external view http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

That's OK. Not necessarily misread. I didn't make myself clear. I have a habit of doing that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif


Well I still have the external option because I like to have a look at my aircraft just before take off (as if on the airfield going to it as you would have seen in reality) and get a good idea of the Squad line up.

The only other time I use it is if I get shot down or land. For me this is simulating the `debrief` account of the dogfight going on without me. It means when its all over I`ll know from HQ or surviving pilots how things went.

It`s also a nice way to view the excellent graphics. Veryhappy

Amazing how complex it can become trying to say something so simple.

In that respect you are preserving what are laid out as 'realistic' settings in the game. Only using the externals when you need to and not unfairly.

Staying with what you originally said `full switch` is not `realistic`. Then I agree. A pilot can't lean to the side or lean forward in this game. The cockpit view imposes more limits than there should be.

WTE_Ibis
05-29-2005, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DarkBlueMan:
Seafire considers himself to fly 'full real'. I would assume most of his difficulty switches are set 'on'.

That`s correct. All are on except the 2 I mentioned

When trying to simulate a 'realistic' flying experience you really shouldn't be able to jump outside your aircraft, have a look around, then jump back in.

Well I still have the external option because I like to have a look at my aircraft just before take off (as if on the airfield going to it as you would have seen in reality) and get a good idea of the Squad line up.

The only other time I use it is if I get shot down or land. For me this is simulating the `debrief` account of the dogfight going on without me. It means when its all over I`ll know from HQ or surviving pilots how things went.

It`s also a nice way to view the excellent graphics. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Amazing how complex it can become trying to say something so simple. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
-------------------------------
Just because it's complex doesn't mean it's realistic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BuzzU
05-29-2005, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by BM357_Hitcher:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BuzzU:
Some of you must copy/paste your answers.

That isn't realistic.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

A bit sensitive, eh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sensitive?? I thought I was making a funny.

WTE_Dukayn
05-29-2005, 05:47 PM
I chuckled http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Weather_Man
05-29-2005, 05:53 PM
I'd rather not play than not have an external view and external padlock. Online or Off. I hate not knowing where my enemy is. In fact, that pesky cockpit frame and panel is way too restrictive for my liking. A simple HUD with crosshairs is all you really need. All other settings are always totally real though. I'm a 4 year veteran of the "Full Noob" club (Really), and proud of it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

It's fun. It's a game. It's perfect. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
05-29-2005, 05:56 PM
Buzz was just trying to ease the tension. Many people misunderstand his sense of humor, you just have to get used to him. Kind of like a rash between your legs....so I've been told.

LStarosta
05-29-2005, 06:03 PM
Talc?

BuzzU
05-29-2005, 06:14 PM
True. When you see me. Grab the lotion. (no gay jokes please)

AerialTarget
05-29-2005, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
they just cannot handle the skill it takes, but fortunatly the game has difficulty levels for all playertypes which makes everyone happy.

That skill which you so proudly hail, implying that those who do not possess it are inferior pilots, is a skill that is completely non-existent in real life flight, as well as any other real life activity, be it past or present. Put that in your pike and smoke it!