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View Full Version : Where's the Thermoclines?



Rocky_985
09-10-2005, 08:39 AM
I am becoming increasingly annoyed by the fact that by '44 you just can't seem to hide. Even at over 200m. You mean to say that there are no thermoclines that deflect Sonar even at those depths? I have found it impossible to take on a liner or even a large convoy and survive. The decoys don't work and the only way to get away is in bad weather. So, if they took that into account, why not the thermoclines? DOH!

the_rydster
09-10-2005, 09:29 AM
No one knows really if the developers modelled the effect of ocean temperature gradient upon ASDIC response. However in the real world it is not just a case of dive to 200 m and you automatically get protection by a 'thermocline', rather sharp changes in ocean temperature gradient can change with the seasons, may or may not be present, may be very shallow or too deep even for us U boaters.

Chrystine
09-10-2005, 09:35 AM
*

€œThe decoys don't work and the only way to get away is in bad weather.€

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

..My decoys work(ed) (don€t have them now, am only on my 2nd patrol of new Career, €˜39).

Never had a problem with them not working, tho€ €" when I deployed them properly.
How are you using them when they €˜don€t work.?€

Sorry, I know my question here is O.T, but I€m curious€¦

Best,
~ C.

*

lecek
09-10-2005, 10:13 AM
Just like in real life, in a U-boat you can not detect thermoclines.

However there is no mention of them at all in game and even though we know the developers thought of it, we don't know if it is in game. ( http://www.silent-hunteriii.com/uk/videos.php see the second video from the right, top row.)

The thing with decoys is you can not just drop them and exepect them to work. On the contrary if you drop them without strategy, you usually accomplish opposit effect.

Decoys don't move, they just sit and try to attract destroyers. If you just dropped one, all you have done is told all the destroyers where you are. This is true whether the destroyer is fooled or not.

I don't have a well developed decoy strategy myself since I haven't really needed them yet but it takes some planning.

For example the one strategy I will probably try first is to wait until the depth charge attack. While avoiding the charges at flank I will drop a decoy. Then when the attack is over and I have slowed to 3 kts there will be a target where the destroyers last thought I was. (And there will be some distance between me and my decoy.) Keep in mind that in order to work you need to drop to slow as soon as you know the depth charges are going to miss. If you are going flank when the noise stops you are toast.

This will work even better if I am still diving to depth. Then the decoy will also be at the wrong depth.

paulhager
09-10-2005, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Rocky_985:
I am becoming increasingly annoyed by the fact that by '44 you just can't seem to hide. Even at over 200m. You mean to say that there are no thermoclines that deflect Sonar even at those depths? I have found it impossible to take on a liner or even a large convoy and survive. The decoys don't work and the only way to get away is in bad weather. So, if they took that into account, why not the thermoclines? DOH!

Hmmm... I've posted several accounts in which I deploy decoys. All but one are before 1944 however. The 1944 one I just posted, The final (secret) patrol of Bruno Stachel (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/3631059553) details two separate decoy deployments in the same engagement.

I like to deploy decoys as I'm making my escape run, typically at 50 meters. If I think I'm spotted, I run at high speed, deploy the decoy, and then place my stern on the approaching escort. As it starts to close, I go slow and silent and continue on. I usually like to turn slightly after a while to pick up the escort on the hydrophone so as to plan further maneuvers.

Note: I also downloaded Jungman's sensor mod, which is supposed to have addressed the impossible demon DD problem others have encountered later in the game. As for where the mod is located, I didn't save the info. You can probably find it linked somewhere on this group.

Whether or not the mod helped, I can't say. I'm very risk averse - as I think a real captain would be. I always try to leave myself an escape AND I generally try to minimize the amount of maneuvering/turning I have to do. I also almost always attack at night. I posted two accounts of night attacks - one as a gibbous Moon was setting, the other as the Sun was coming up. Both were nail biters. One of them is in the list provided here: Updated accounts/stories - added pics (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/8101018553). The other two attacks - on the Royal Oak at Scapa and on a TF in the Med - were also made at night. In the Med attack, I had to deploy two decoys to escape. You may find some of these accounts instructive.

Rocky_985
09-11-2005, 10:51 AM
Well, my war has just ended and I think I need a break. This game is just way tooo **** addictive. In response to the decoy and thermocline questions and answers, I did see the decoys work early in the war but the time I was referring to was right at the end or late 44. I believe I did have a strategy such as deploying at depth charge time at high speed, dropping to slow, descending and turning. but I just could not creep away. Also, the thermo question was not weather the sub could detect them but was that they seem to be absent altogether. As an ocean diver I have encountered obvious thermoclines at depths as shallow as 15 ft. and as deep as 90'. I know for a fact that they greatly effect sonar and todays sub fleets count on them for hiding to a great degree. Unfortunate that they were not included in the game as they seem to have included bad weather as a detection deterrent.

Grey004
09-11-2005, 12:24 PM
Paul,
I found the link for Jungmans Sonar Fix,its strung up with the Real Damage Mod,it can be found at:
http://www.subsim.com/subsim_files/patches.html#sh3

Pv-
09-11-2005, 08:19 PM
Actually I remember reading an interview with two of the developers soon after release of the sim and temp layers were discussed.

They said because WWII ships and subs could not detect them and also because they were not fully understood at that time that they were made a random element. They may be there or not and the depths are not always the same, but they ARE modeled int he game as decreased sonar/hydraphone sensitivity.

Decoys are best used BEFORE they know where you are so the enemy will go there looking for you and dropping DCs but you are quietly away from there. Deploying while under close and aggressive attack is too late. You then use the noise to get further away. Deploying on a direct line between enemy and yourself helps disguise your props as there aren't TWO targets for them to determine which is real. For that to work you need to deploy on level where you will be deeper so there is a direct vertical angle. Otherwise they will see two targets.
-Pv-