PDA

View Full Version : Scripted servers are the way to go in online wars...



XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 01:16 PM
Current model of online wars (VOW/VEF) is not very close to reality...

Planes take off, meet over target seeing each other as they approach, sometimes try to reach their objective but mostly dogfight there and then survivors are hearded home by impatient hosts...thatāĀ“s a poor substitute at best...

But! Scripted servers are quite another story...you join the server and the war is going on, you choose your base, you choose your plane, you choose the time and place where you attack, you can use element of surprise that is rarely present in current online wars...it is as close to reality as possible...with the exception that your results are not logged and no stats are maintained...

Example of an operation:

Scripted server with all awailable planes that fought in a particular operation...objectives set and number of planes and pilots limited...log runing and being turned into online stats...the side that wins gets extra bonus points for wining or even more complex engine of previous battlesāĀ“ outcome influencing the one that starts after it...

There could be four scripts for four years of war first and gradually added more and more for each year finally covering all battles that took place on Eastern front...

Another realism adding feature would be concealing the names of pilots and plane types flown by them...by pressing S it should be only possible to see maybe number of enemy planes in the air and nothing else...

Also no messages at all...no xxxx killed xxxx...no unrealistic stuff like that...maybe in stats later pilots could see whom they shot down but not while in war...

I am sure others would have their ideas how to make this online war and Ultimate Online War to get as close to the real thin as possible...

Thank you for your attention and you ideas

CSL_Kocour

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 01:16 PM
Current model of online wars (VOW/VEF) is not very close to reality...

Planes take off, meet over target seeing each other as they approach, sometimes try to reach their objective but mostly dogfight there and then survivors are hearded home by impatient hosts...thatāĀ“s a poor substitute at best...

But! Scripted servers are quite another story...you join the server and the war is going on, you choose your base, you choose your plane, you choose the time and place where you attack, you can use element of surprise that is rarely present in current online wars...it is as close to reality as possible...with the exception that your results are not logged and no stats are maintained...

Example of an operation:

Scripted server with all awailable planes that fought in a particular operation...objectives set and number of planes and pilots limited...log runing and being turned into online stats...the side that wins gets extra bonus points for wining or even more complex engine of previous battlesāĀ“ outcome influencing the one that starts after it...

There could be four scripts for four years of war first and gradually added more and more for each year finally covering all battles that took place on Eastern front...

Another realism adding feature would be concealing the names of pilots and plane types flown by them...by pressing S it should be only possible to see maybe number of enemy planes in the air and nothing else...

Also no messages at all...no xxxx killed xxxx...no unrealistic stuff like that...maybe in stats later pilots could see whom they shot down but not while in war...

I am sure others would have their ideas how to make this online war and Ultimate Online War to get as close to the real thin as possible...

Thank you for your attention and you ideas

CSL_Kocour

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 03:36 PM
TX Squadron has a map rotation designed by TX-Kingsnake that we use on our OC3 server. The missions start in early war and run through 12 missions until 1945 is reached. Depending on who wins a particular mission, the 'war' could be over in 12 missions or could last considerably longer.

Stop by and check it out sometime, because thanks to Sammie and BadBernie, FB hosts now have the options to use scripting to add a new element to the game.

S~

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/tx-zen/Zensig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 04:55 PM
Hey is that you Kocour?
You used to be #1 on my old il2 server?
----------------
CSL_Kocour wrote:

...with
- the exception that your results are not logged and
- no stats are maintained...

New version of FBDaemon 1.5 also have complete log after each sorties. Also Sammie has done a great job with FBD Stats. Have you tried FBD Stats?

- Another realism adding feature would be concealing
- the names of pilots and plane types flown by
- them...by pressing S it should be only possible to
- see maybe number of enemy planes in the air and
- nothing else...

But, now when we have plane info fbd will also have option to count losses of: fighter/bomber/pilots
---------------------
New features in next version of FBDaemon:

. option to count losses of bomber planes as well.

. Complete log after all sorties with info about pilots and plane types shot down...

. Option to kick a player after he got killed x times.
Then he can join server again after x minutes.

. Option to end mission after x minutes if no team got their objectives.
---------------------

If I only got the dedicated server when programming.
Then I could test and find bugs myself... :-(
/BadBernie

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:00 PM
Greatergreen has a nice map rotation too, I hang out there when I decide I don't like the externals on the TX server.

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-"
-Major General John Sedgwich, Battle of Spotsylvania

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:53 PM
BadBernie wrote:
- Hey is that you Kocour?
- You used to be #1 on my old il2 server?

Yes, Bernie, its me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Hi http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I loved your scripted server alot but it was just a begining

What I am dreaming about is a combination of Greatergreen/TX-OC3 servers with full real settings and excellent statistics with all the ranking and medals like VOW/VEF

http://www.vow.de.sr/

http://66.114.65.249/vov/site/main.htm

OC3 sound good with the 12 missions from 41. to 45. but I think I saw the settings not being full real there

Greatergreen servers are virtually perfect...except for the icons (not even friendly should have them to have it full real) messages (no xxxx killed xxxx and other messages should be displayed) and there are no stats I would know about with automatic ranking, medals, Kills/KIA, Streak etc.

There would be no need for any difficult rules on such an online war scripter server...i suggest calling it an AROW server (meaning Absolute Realism Online War)...it would be simple real war as it was in reality and anything would be allowed...probably with the only exception of teamkilling/suicide (to spoil the war for own side) but some autokick could be set to handle this, right?

Do you think an AROW server/servers (combination of Greatergreen scripted server and VOW campaign and statistics) could be done?

Such a project would take best of both and eliminate the dissadvantages...it would eliminate the long boring waiting and lack of element of surprise in VOW/VEF and give us the great stats that VOW/VEF have...I believe such servers would be most popular

The only problem is to organize such a war and draw attention of Greatergreen/TX-OC3/VOW/VEF pilots to it so that we would have only one big war and one big stats...could that be done?

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 08:06 PM
Thanks fellas, the ideas you've posted here are precisely what the Wing Walkers are looking for. Our current ambition is to start a scripted D/F server "war" campaign... first for in-house runs (to test the theory and wring out the bugs) then to open it up for either "invitational" or "open" flying.

WWWeasel has been hosting a scripted D/F server (currently called "The Horkerage" -the name's an inside joke), and is learning the ins-and-outs of FBD and FBD-Stats. He's becoming quite adept at using it. From many runs on that server, and other scripted servers (GreaterGreen comes to mind as one I've spent some time on), we in WW have decided we really like the possibilities FBD gives.

WWElTigre' and I flew on the TX server last night... great fun, and a great map! (first time I've flown on the Berlin map in a long time) Just the sort of thing we're looking to emulate. You say that entire run has a minimum of 12 maps?? Wow... plenty of variety there!

Now... how to do it... and most importantly, how to host it. (sigh)

(opens FMB and starts creating....)

WW-V-TFW CO

[email="wwsandman@wingwalkers.org>Email</a>
WW Forum (http://www.wingwalkers.org/Forum/index.php)

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 08:48 PM
If it was possible, it would be best to create an FBD map pack, including scripted maps with all necessary links/link to stats server...such a pack of maps would be downloadable or distributed to anyone who would like to host such an online war scripted server...all the logs from all the FBD servers would be sent to one server where all the stats would be kept and displayed together with some ranking and medals system...something simillar to the IL2 Manager on C6 with the difference that all FBD logs sent to this "online war" server would be from servers with same maps and same settings...that way the results in stats would be objective and fair to all...there would be a rule for host to run their servers with full real settings (speed bar only) and failure to obey this rule would result in the loss of hosting rights...sure there would be more issues to solve but the principle is great and the best way to go in the area of online wars

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 08:59 PM
Well I disagree about VEF.. VEF is the closest thing we have for virtual online war, meaning air battles inflicting the action in the ground.. VOW is basicly just random fighting, usually planes get up, meet and shoot each other down.. in VEF there are more planning and tactive planning..
Though i agree that still porked sounds in FB ruin the element of surprise.. and bouncing of planes..


____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 11:42 PM
Hey Kocour!
Glad to see you again.
We had some fun togheter on my old server.
And you was always ranked #1, thought it was a bug for a moment.

I like the idea but I dont know much about other than dogfight mode of game. Havent played a single mission, coop mission not even once. Well I started the campaign but they yelled at me all time to keep formation and I yelled back but they didnt listen :P

When you flew on my server long time ago my program just collected stats from original IL2, but then I met friends like Sammie, Besh-Lo, Petter. We had some ideas how to improve dogfights. My "IL-2 online ranking" became FBDaemon - "a pilot/plane counter" instead of a stats program. Sammie wanted to have the stats on his server and he started to make FBD Stats.

(There are MANY more ppl who haved helped I should have written down all names so I could put their names in a "special thanks to list")

FBD is getting bigger and better, and I have still many ideas left. And your idea sounds like fun.

But I would like not to focus on the Absolute Realism server settings so much. When I hosted in the old days I had no cockpit, externals on and icons on. Server full all time, me and many friends flying on server got better and better. Now I fly without external and have cockpit on. FB is very hard to learn and if we create something like this for only "Absolute Realism Servers", how are we going to get NEW ppl to join. Why base whole idea on the server settings only? We need more ppl to like flight sims. I am not talking about rookie settings here but why not allow icons on some servers?

You should talk to sammie, he has done all programming for the FBD Stats. Without his help there would be no FBDaemon at all. Go to his forum and convince him as well:

www.greatergreen.com (http://www.greatergreen.com)

The way FBD and FBD Stats works today FBD Stats could take information from many servers same time in real time.
Take a look at stats from his server in real time here (FBD + FBD Stats):
http://209.209.44.31/il2/stats/archivestats.html

I think Sammie will like the ideas, I dont know about TX-team if they use FBDaemon all the time, some of them like FBD alot but some dont and said they plan to stop use FBD since it creates much lag on their server. They also use a script they made.

Also there is a new program being created by Sergey McFries, FBD Mission. FBD sends information to FBD Mission and a new mission is created based from that information. And I know his program is going to be very good! He wants to create same thing that you are talking about.
Go to his webpage and download his program here:

http://mcfris.at.tut.by/english.html

I also see a risk working on a huge project like this when we havent got a single word from Maddox or Ubi. Is it worth putting so much more time into a project when we have no idea how long our work will be usefull. What will happen when patch or addon or dedicated server or whatever they have is out... (we kindly invited them many times to our servers... no reply).

/BadBernie

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 01:13 AM
They are fun but they cause more lag then regular dfs or coops.

Tx when are you going to disable padlock and externals in your server seems to run very descent with the script but dont go in thier much becuase of PL and externals.


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:05 AM
Before I go away on my assignment, I will put up a server for a very similar setup like greatergreen.

The difference between greatergreen and the one IāĀ“m planning will be this:


- Server will be running on a 10Mbit connection.

- Server location: N Europe

- Server settings: Full real

- LPB Ping limitations ( I wont allow avarage ping over 250)

- Well planned maps. Perhaps even minicampaigns with dynamic outcome.

- Other functions: There will be a teamspeak2 or ventriloserver also availble on same adress for ppl that want to cooperate more. (since there wont be any friendly icons)

- Perhaps a different stats page. Than FBD stats, with other gfx.

The server will attract the more "mature" crowd of you virtual pilots out there, thats why I will run it full real. Yes, some of you might say.

"but we want the speedbar"

But I wont allow it. I want it to be as real as it gets.

The players that think this sounds fun, are the players I am focusing on.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

/Petter_Gul
CO, Flygflottilj 16
#1 Swedish Virtual Squadron
http://www.f16vs.tk
_________________________

"Slider.... You Stink..."

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:15 PM
The lag on FBD servers is a real problem...I experience lots of stutters there but I think its more because of too many ground targets and flak than because of the script itself...that is why I think there should be less ground targets and flak...the worst lag was always at the map with ships...

Yes Petter, your idea is real cool...combination of a scripted full real server missions and stats is the best that can be...if ladders, ranks, medals could be created for such scripted server/servers, it would simply RULE.

But...i think speed bar is necessary as some allied planes have compass hidden behind their stick and they would find it extremely difficult to find heading without minimap path...the rest can be full real...

Also xxxx killed xxxxx messages are unnecessary...

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 04:24 AM
Well after listening to some comments from others, I might change my mind about that speedbar thingy then. Its really too bad you cannot peak left or peak right in the cockpit by maybe pressing shift + mouse movements...

They gotta make that happen in the next sim!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Also I might allow friendly icons only, but set to a more realistic closer distance than in ie. greatergreen.

In real life you should be able to distinguish between different airplanes at some distance, so perhaps I will add that. (still not so sure)

Ill be testing the server later this month and will need some input from outside players.

Ill be posting when the server is ready for testing.

In the meantime I can recommend Greatergreen.

209.209.44.54:21000

I have had a lot of fun there, and its still amazing I dont experience a trace of lag. The server is located in California, US. Thats like on the other side of the world from me!!

Hopefully my server will attract more european players, perhaps those that are having lag problems with greatergreen and offer them a good alternative.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

/Petter_Gul
CO, Flygflottilj 16
#1 Swedish Virtual Squadron
http://www.f16vs.tk
_________________________

"Slider.... You Stink..."