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general_kalle
09-08-2008, 10:22 AM
many of the American Lend Lease planes which they sent to britain recieved different names by the british:

P51 - Mustang
F4U - Corsair
B25 - Mitchell
B26 - Maruder
with roman numbers added to indicate version
e.g Mustang Mk III


the names, Mustang, Corsair, Mitchell, Maruder etc. Were they also names given by the Americans or were they invented by the British
i know that the B25 was named after the American aviation Pioneer Billy Mitchell so i presume that in that case it was a name given by the Americans, but what about Mustang, Corsair and the rest?

Boosher
09-08-2008, 10:35 AM
I do know that the British gave different names to some of our aircraft. The early P-40 models (B & C), for example, were given the name "Tomahawk," while the later models, starting with the E, were "Kittyhawks." They also renamed some of our naval aircraft. While we were used to calling the F4F the "Wildcat," the British named it the Martlett.

Aaron_GT
09-08-2008, 11:19 AM
The A-20 series also received two names - Boston and Havoc.

VF-17_Jolly
09-08-2008, 11:36 AM
The A-20 Havoc was called the Boston by the British and I think the Catalina was named by the British.

Worst name was the Avenger called the Tarpon (wtf)

Aaron_GT
09-08-2008, 11:40 AM
The Havoc was called both the Boston and Havoc. AFAIK Boston referred to versions with clear noses, Havoc for solid noses and also the turbinlite adaptation.

In the case of Tarpon it was because torpedo bombers in FAA service were named after aggressive salt water fish e.g. Swordfish, Barracuda. The tarpon is also a fish, just not so well known.

The RAF/FAA didn't always keep to their themes - .e.g they didn't give the Liberator or Fortress British town names also this was true in the case of the A-20 and B-29, the latter being the Washington, but names were picked that were also big cities in the USA. I suspect they were short of ideas for the B-17 and B-24.

The Martlet follows on from the Roc in the use of a mythical bird name although the Fulmar, not being mythical, doesn't really fit into it, and nor does the Skua. I am not sure if the FAA retained the name Martlet for all Wildcats?

VF-17_Jolly
09-08-2008, 01:44 PM
The A-20s first designation was DB-7 (Douglas Bomber 7)for an order by the French.
Then the A-20 name by the US Army.
After the fall of france the surviving French DB-7s came to England and were given the name Boston I a part of the remaining french order was delivered to England along with a British order(DB-7b) and given the name Boston II.

Meanwhile the US Army A-20 was ordered After the Japanese attck and with war declared more A-20s were diverted to the US Army.
The A-20 didn`t get the Havoc name until after Pearl Harbor

All Bostons had a glass nose and DB-7s operated By the RAF with solid noses were called Havoc`s
Although RAF Havoc II`s had glass noses which were used as nightfighters most were converted to Turbinlite Havoc II
But Havoc`s operated by the US Army had Glass and Solid noses.

The A-20H Havoc had a solid nose
The A-20K Havoc had a glass nose

Tarpon

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Atlantic_tarpon.jpg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

The Martlett was redesignated Wildcat by the British in 1944

The British Named the Brewster B-339 the Buffalo


I think the British named the Ventura (PV-1)

Aaron_GT
09-08-2008, 02:34 PM
Where possible it seems that the RAF and manufacturers liked alliterative names - Hawker Hurricane, Handley-Page Halifax, Supermarine Spitfire, so Brewster Buffalo fits. Maybe since they'd heard of Buffalo wings they assumed it was a mythical bird to fit in with the general theme.

VF-17_Jolly
09-08-2008, 02:40 PM
Buffalo wings LOL best name ever of anything

Mr_Zooly
09-08-2008, 02:42 PM
you have to admit that the Bitish names were the most imaginative http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

luftluuver
09-08-2008, 03:01 PM
The PBY was called the Canso in the RCAF.

luftluuver
09-08-2008, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by VF-17_Jolly:
Worst name was the Avenger called the Tarpon (wtf)

The tarpon is considered one of the great sal****er game fishes, not only because of the size it can reach and its accessible haunts, but because of its fighting spirit when hooked; it is very strong, making spectacular leaps into the air.

Sounds like a good name.

joeap
09-08-2008, 03:12 PM
OMG sal****er????

Someone turn off or fix the damn word filter please.

VF-17_Jolly
09-08-2008, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VF-17_Jolly:
Worst name was the Avenger called the Tarpon (wtf)

The tarpon is considered one of the great sal****er game fishes, not only because of the size it can reach and its accessible haunts, but because of its fighting spirit when hooked; it is very strong, making spectacular leaps into the air.

Sounds like a good name. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good name for a fish terrible (sounding)name for a plane IMHO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VF-17_Jolly
09-08-2008, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
OMG sal****er????

Someone turn off or fix the damn word filter please.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

R_Target
09-08-2008, 03:37 PM
Some of the British re-brands on naval planes were pretty weak. Tarpon's not bad, but it's good that they chucked Martlett and Gannet (Hellcat). If you read up a little on gannets however, you might see some subtle humor in the name.

JSG72
09-08-2008, 05:08 PM
P-38 lightning and P-39 Airacobra.

Were Known as "Not much use to us in the UK".

Although they did serve well. Apart from in Western Europe. Exept maybes the P-38 (Sometimes.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

WTE_Galway
09-08-2008, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by JSG72:
P-38 lightning and P-39 Airacobra.

Were Known as "Not much use to us in the UK".

Although they did serve well. Apart from in Western Europe. Exept maybes the P-38 (Sometimes.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

The name Lightning actually came from the British.

Remember that the early British P38's where not allowed turbochargers due to US export restrictions and basically ran the same engine as the P40.

jarink
09-08-2008, 06:45 PM
The original export B-24s designation was LB-30. I think the Brits came up with the name "Liberator", though. They also gave the P-51 the name "Mustang"; the original USAAF name was "Apache" (for the A-36).

Biggest naming myth: The B-17 was so named because it bristled with defensive armament. Not so; the early Forts (A-D) actually were fairly lightly armed.

Actually, the B-17 got the name "Flying Fortress" to describe it's original mission of coastal defense It only had this mission due to the politics of the mid-30s USAAC. Instead of guarding our shores with traditional coastal fortresses, the B-17 was to find and intercept enemy fleets hundreds of miles away. This was the main reason for the famous B-17 demo interception of the Italian liner "Rex" in 1938.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/B-17s_flyby_Rex.jpg/800px-B-17s_flyby_Rex.jpg

R_Target
09-08-2008, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Remember that the early British P38's where not allowed turbochargers due to US export restrictions and basically ran the same engine as the P40.

RAF P-38's were ordered without turbochargers or counter-rotating engines. Lockheed's pending legal action against the British for reneging on their contract was withdrawn when the U.S. bought back the P-322's upon American entry into the war.

Skycat_2
09-08-2008, 07:33 PM
Don't let the airplane drivers have all the fun. American armored vehicles got some interesting nicknames also:

M3/M5 Light Tank = Dubbed "Stuart" in British service. The name references American Civil War cavalry general J.E.B. Stuart. Informally it was also known as the "Honey."

M3 Medium Tank = "Lee" or "Grant" to the British, depending on turret design. These nicknames are also based on American Civil War generals.

M4 Medium Tank = Became the "General Sherman" to the British. This name seems to have been quickly adopted by GIs as well (ie, Sherman tank), probably because the Army's tendency to nomenclature everything in the inventory as M-1, M-2, etc. was both nondescript and unimaginative.

M7 105mm Howitzer Motor Carriage = "Priest" to the British, a reference to its pulpit-like machine gunner's station.

M8 Light Armored Car = "Greyhound" in British service.

M10 Tank Destroyer = The version used by the U.S. was nicknamed "Wolverine" but the British variant (armed with a different gun) was known as the "Achilles."

M18 Tank Destroyer = Called the "Hellcat." I don't know what country coined this nickname however.

WOLFMondo
09-09-2008, 02:22 AM
B29 - Washington. A small town in rural England.
PV2 Harpoon - Ventura in RAF service.

luftluuver
09-09-2008, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
B29 - Washington. A small town in rural England.
PV2 Harpoon - Ventura in RAF service.

PV-1 was the Ventura. Afaik no PV-2s went to the Brits.

jarink
09-09-2008, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Skycat_2:
M18 Tank Destroyer = Called the "Hellcat." I don't know what country coined this nickname however.

Did the Brits even use the M18?

The M-26 Pershing was named by the US, but the M-24 Chaffee was named by the British.

Of course, the best informal Allied AFV nickname was for the M-16 GMC; the "Meat Chopper".
http://www.antiaircraft.org/aaimages/M16.jpg

Skycat_2
09-09-2008, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
OMG sal****er????

Someone turn off or fix the damn word filter please.
It took me a while to fill in the blank. I had to go through a lot of dirty words. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Salt.water.

"Saltpeter" fits the space also. Funny its not filtered as well.

general_kalle
09-10-2008, 12:43 AM
interesting guys, thanks for the good responses.
what about corsair?

Metatron_123
09-10-2008, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
This was the main reason for the famous B-17 demo interception of the Italian liner "Rex" in 1938.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/B-17s_flyby_Rex.jpg/800px-B-17s_flyby_Rex.jpg

Ironic that it really did get 'intercepted' in the end...

VF-17_Jolly
09-10-2008, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
interesting guys, thanks for the good responses.
what about corsair?

Corsair is a Vought original name

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Vought_O2U.jpg

Vought O2U

I should be the Corsair II and the A7 should have been the Corsair III

Viper2005_
09-10-2008, 01:55 PM
RAF aircraft were named based upon a variety of conventions. Usually these conventions were applied to imported aircraft. However if the imported machine already had a name considered "up to scratch" by those responsible for aircraft names then the original name would be retained.

Bell had an Aira- theme going on (as evidenced by the P-63, and XP-59), so the P-39's name came from Bell.

The P-38 got its name as part of the alliteration scheme Lockheed Lightning.

The T-6 was called the Harvard in the UK. This was because advanced training aircraft were named after colleges at the time. Harvard was considered to be an appropriate American college. It was replaced by the Boulton-Paul Balliol which obviously continued this theme. Another American example was the North American BT-9 which was known as the Yale in RAF service.

Sometimes educational concepts rather than places were used, presumably to facilitate alliteration.

The Miles Master was an obvious example; the Miles Magister was less obvious:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magister_(degree)

Likewise the Percival Provost:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provost_(education)

It is likely that the Percival Prentice was really "Apprentice" with the first two letters dropped to facilitate alliteration.

It is interesting that the Percival Proctor ended up with an educational name despite finding use as a communications aircraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proctor

However, later Proctors were used as radio trainers, so perhaps somebody was planning ahead...

B-29 was called the Washington following the place name theme for heavy bombers (Manchester, Lancaster, Halifax and of course Lincoln post-war). The B-29 was therefore named after Washington D.C. because lend-lease aircraft at that time were named to reflect their country of origin (see Harvard above). This supposition is strengthened by the fact that an alliterative scheme was adopted where possible; it seems likely that Washington was deliberately selected against this scheme because the B-29 was considered to be equivalent to a "Capital Ship" due to its size and capability.

It is particularly interesting to note that the B-17 was known as the Fortress in RAF service. Flying Fortress was a name given to the B-17 by an American journalist rather than an official; it is interesting that the RAF decided to keep this name with modification and yet felt unable to refer to the B-29 as the Superfortress.

The Martin 167 was called the Maryland. Again it's a place name for a bomber, it's an American place for an American aeroplane and it's

The Mustang was a British name; it was ordered for the RAF first and foremost. The Americans went through a phase of calling it the Apache.

However, when an A-36 was given to the RAF it was referred to as the Mustang I (dive bomber).

It should be noted that these themes were somewhat haphazard. Although the place name theme mainly applied to heavy bombers it also found application to other large aircraft such as the Douglas Dakota (again note that it's an American place name for an American aeroplane and also alliterates), the Avro York.

The Airspeed Oxford is another interesting case. As a trainer it makes sense to name it after an educational establishment; as a relatively large aircraft it makes sense to name it after a place, especially given its (limited) bombing capability. Oxford was therefore a convenient compromise.

Going back into the mists of time, it is interesting to debate the naming of the Vickers Vimy. It would be strange to name a British aircraft after a French place; it therefore might have been named after the battle of Vimy Ridge; subsequently battle served as a broad theme for attack aircraft.

Anyway, this list seems to be pretty comprehensive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_RAF

***

The Corsair was an American name since the FAA liked to name carrier fighters after sea birds in this period (eg Martlett, Gannet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Fleet_Air_Arm

The only other piratical aeroplane which shows up on the list is the Buccaneer which was a very different machine! Also of course it was made by Blackburn and so this follows the alliterative scheme.

Vought seemed to like to begin their aircraft names with C, presumably because of Chance Vought, though a piratical theme was also in evidence (F6U Pirate), and they finally got around to starting one name with V (the Vindicator). They particularly liked the name "Corsair"; their first was a biplane introduced in 1926. They then forgot about that so that the F4U was Corsair, and A7 became Corsair II.

The Americans went through a phase of naming aircraft after swords in the 1940s and 1950s, mainly instigated by North American (F-86, F-100, F-108), which combined with Vought's love of the letter C and its piratical connotations probably explains the Cutlass.

But now I'm getting considerably off topic and really should go back to the thermodynamics I've been procrastinating at for most of the evening...