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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:01 PM
Hi,

Tried to do a search for this but the search thing timed out (as per usual).

I ask because I find it very tricky to track targets and have a perception that others are so much better at this...

Cheers,
Norris

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:01 PM
Hi,

Tried to do a search for this but the search thing timed out (as per usual).

I ask because I find it very tricky to track targets and have a perception that others are so much better at this...

Cheers,
Norris

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:06 PM
How many people use Track IR in online combat?

84

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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T_O_A_D
10-07-2003, 01:13 PM
ME and

Everyone that owns one, and flys online.




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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:14 PM
I do. Find it more natural, but more difficult than using padlock. Works well enough to not need padlock though... After having it about a year I can't think to fly without it...

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:15 PM
I should have known better.....

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:17 PM
Me.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:23 PM
I do... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

rgds

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 01:45 PM
I do. Using TrackIR enhances the simulation of flight 1000 fold. There is no grabbing for the mouse and flailing around looking for your target. There is no pressing of a key and having the program magically find the target for you. Turn your head to the side and you see to the side. As others have said ... indispensable.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:02 PM
I DO, it's a wonderful world using TrackIR. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:19 PM
I use it. Awesome piece of equipment. After you use it you will never want to fly in a server with padlock again. Another point - its very realistic, and flying in a server without padlock adds to the realism tremendously.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:25 PM
Heck, are there people who still get in online WITHOUT TrackIR?? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:31 PM
IV_JG51_Swine wrote:
- I use it. Awesome piece of equipment. After you
- use it you will never want to fly in a server with
- padlock again. Another point - its very realistic,
- and flying in a server without padlock adds to the
- realism tremendously.


This is an obvious CHEAT.If your running a server using track ir your cheating. your giving your self an advantage over non track ir users by removing the one thing that would keep it a level playing field. It's like you haveing padlock and they dont.There is no way to know who or how many ppl are using this thing. I personally would BAN tir form any of my games if thee was a way to know who is using it. It's not that i dont like tir ....i just think that unless everyone in the server has it.....it's a cheat. Which is one of my problems with the online wars.
None of them allow padlock but no one has a NO track IR rule. Would be point less i know- no way to enforce it.
But i still think that Track IR is an unfair advantage.

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Message Edited on 10/07/0301:34PM by Copperhead310th

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:34 PM
I do... still suck though

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:34 PM
Most people don't use trackIR.

It sucks. Device doesn't refresh high enough for smooth panning. If you use TrackIR you are decreasing your realism tenfold. Welcome to the world of computers.

If you think trackIR is "hunky dory" then I ask you to do this:
Go to your control panel -- mice and other pointing devices -- PS2/Compatable mouse -- advanced settings. See if you can tell the difference between the 100 sampling rate and 200 sampling rate mouse settings (reboot required to take effect) To see the difference, just go to your desktop and move the mouse back and forth across the screen.

If you can't tell the difference then I feel sorry for you and trackIR might be right up your alley. The rest of us (discerning gamers) think trackIR is a joke.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:35 PM
Track ir gives you the same exact view as what you cold see with the mouse being utilized. Nothing else. Thats no cheat buddy, your basically moving your head verses using the mouse - NO DIFFERENT. Copperhead, do you use track ir or own one?


Copperhead310th wrote:
- IV_JG51_Swine wrote:
-- I use it. Awesome piece of equipment. After you
-- use it you will never want to fly in a server with
-- padlock again. Another point - its very realistic,
-- and flying in a server without padlock adds to the
-- realism tremendously.
-
-
- This is an obvious CHEAT.If your running a server
- using track ir your cheating. your giving your self
- an advantage of non track ir users by removing the
- one thing that would keep it a level playing field.
- There is no way to know who or how many ppl are
- using this thing. I personally would BAN tir form
- any of my games if thee was a way to know who is
- using it. It's not that i dont like tir ....i just
- think that unless everyone in the server has
- it.....it's a cheat. Which is one of my problems
- with the online wars.
- None of them allow padlock but no one has a NO track
- IR rule. Would be point less i know- no way to
- enforce it.
- But i still think that Track IR is an unfair
- advantage.
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:30 PM
I use it and I never used padlock as I found that the worst of all.

I was quite good at using the hat switch and had no problem tracking with that but Track IR is amazing and I will never play another flight sim that doesn't use it.

It would be great if racing games used it as well so you can look into a corner before turning in to it.

The refresh rate of Track IR isn't as good as a mouse but hell you are using your head not your hand so the difference is negligible.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:37 PM
Use it and love it!

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:38 PM
Have anyone heard any news on a next generation of TrackIR?

How will it be different from the current model and when will it come out?

Thanks in advance for substantive responses.

Regards,
BusySilent

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:39 PM
with the beta linda blair drivers too

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:56 PM
LeadSpitter, you can use latest drivers and have this Linda Blaire view.. Who is she, anyway?
TrackIR is the greatest things, which happen to flight simulators! Right after THE IL-2.


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---------------
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:59 PM
Honestly i am sick and tired of this debate. If you really wanna get down to it then, any one that owns a CH Throttle or a Cougar should be considered a cheat due to that fact taht they have a mouse control on them. Its the same thing as using trackir IMHO. So if you are going to ban people on servers for using trackir, then ban all CH Throttle and Cougar owners. You can also say the same thing bout the cost factor. Not everyone can afford a trackir and not everyone can afford a CH throttle or a cougar. Enough said i think.

Ares

aka SPaRX

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:09 PM
I tried the ministick on the CH Pro Throttle USB as the mouse but it refreshed horrible.

I have since changed it to prop pitch and mix.

You people who use trackIR just aren't very discerning gamers. You just put it on your head and look around like Stevie Wonder and think "gee this is cool" and don't notice how much it sucks.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:18 PM
How many?

All the cheats use it to gain an unfair advantage. They will host a server using it then disable Padlock. So while you're fiddling with your HAT switch the cheats are homing in on you!
They call PADLOCK a cheat (something that is built into the game), disable it, then use a hardware cheat that the common man cannot afford...

Let me just finish zipping up my flame-proof suit /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Message Edited on 10/07/0310:25PM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:27 PM
Scragbat wrote:
- How many?
-
- All the cheats use it to gain an unfair advantage.
- They will host a server using it then disable
- Padlock. So while you're fiddling with you're HAT
- switch the cheats are homing in on you!
- They call PADLOCK a cheat (something that is built
- into the game), disable it, then use a hardware
- cheat that the common man cannot afford...
-

TrackIR support is built into the game. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Common man can't afford? Then HOTAS is not affordable even by millionire. Those mean rich cheaters!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

=======================================
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MCP-T SoundStorm, Barracuda IV 7200rpm 60G HDD,
Yes,I got TrackIR/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , Two M$ SW Pr2(weird but good HOTAS.Bill,let sticks be made!)

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:37 PM
I'd expect a device that costs this much to do a lot more than it does.
Yes I can afford it and I'm not rich, but I just think it costs too much for what it does.
I could spend the same amount of money better on a hard drive or memory, and it would give me much more for my money, but all TrackIR will do is pan my view in a game and it costs HOW MUCH?!?! I will spend my money better and use padlock.
I know TrackIR support is built into the game, but the device does not come with the game. Padlock does.
Is there a switch to disable TrackIR if you're hosting a server with Padlock enabled? No is the answer. So why do people who use TrackIR and host servers disable Padlock?
It is because they want the unfair advantage it gives them so they can cheat their a$$es off!

Getting hot in this suit /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:43 PM
Joystick is luxury!

Give us the option to ban slider input!

I wanna compete with my keyboard!


=======================================
<font size = 1>
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MCP-T SoundStorm, Barracuda IV 7200rpm 60G HDD,
Yes,I got TrackIR/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , Two M$ SW Pr2(weird but good HOTAS.Bill,let sticks be made!)

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Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 10:43 PM
TrackIR is nothing more than mouse look on your head. How is that a cheat?

Don't you remember the guy who mounted a mouse (ball type) on his joystick. He should a track, and it worked every bit as good as TrackIR.

Anybody calling it a cheat is ignorant.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:50 PM
RayBanJocky,

we all know you do not like the Trackir. Thats fine. If you dont find it useful, then simply do not use it. I honestly like it. But to each his own.

And as for my previous post, you all missed the point. There is hardware out there that will make flying easier. Not everyone can afford it. So, if you are going to call it a cheat, then you should call everything that the "common" man, as someone put it, cannot afford a cheat.

My view on padlock is this. Its a tool in a game. I dont like it. I dont call it a cheat, it is simply and aspect of the game that i do not like. There are 3 things in the game that i do not like, and i feel take away from the "skill" of flying. Padlock, no cockpit view, and Map icons. I feel i have a good reason for it. It takes away any skilled manuvers you could possibly do. Say someone drops in on my 6. I drag them out a bit, grab some altitude, then pull a dropping manuver so that they lose site of me. Well if Pad lock is on, the pilot on my 6 needs to do nothing to track me. If no cockpit is on, then he has a nice arrow that is pointing to where i went, and if map icons are on, then he can pull up his map and see where i went as well and the direction i am going. This to me makes this and arcade game. Therefore, i do not like these settings and i will not enable them on my Server. If you dont like it, then dont join my server. I have no hard feelings toward someone that dont want to fly with those settings. It is mearly their "CHOICE". Even before i had Trackir or the CH throttle, i would not fly on servers that had those enabled.
Basically, this all boils down to a matter of choice. If you want to fly with padlock, no cockpit, and map icons, then play on servers that have it enabled. If you venture into a server that doesnt have those enabled, then you better be ready for other pilots that have the "tools" to fly on those settings. And that is what these things are. TOOLS. Not cheats, not advantages. They are mearly tools of the trade. Here is a good anaolgy for you. Drag Car driver #1 has a car that is stock. Nothing done to it. He races in the STOCK Car Class. Driver #2 has a car with NO2. He races in the Pro Class. So if you don't want to pay for the PRO class hardware, then fly in the Stock Class.

ok.. think i have ranted enough for now.

Ares

aka SPaRX


Ok i just read Scragbat's posts. Man, where are you coming from. It is quite simple. If you dont have the tools to fly on those server, then dont get on them. It really is this simple. And i still feel that if you are going to call trackir a cheat, then anything that takes the place of the Mouse for panning your view should be a cheat. And i my previous post i forgot to add one piece of hardware. The all so popular, Saitek X45's. You can assign one of the hatswitchs to be used as mouse input. I mean really, we could go on and on with this, but whats the point. I feel like i have already wasted too much time typing out these posts.



Message Edited on 10/07/0309:56PM by Ares_22nd

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:59 PM
So it's not a cheat?

Here's a scenario:

A server is being hosted by someone with trackIR and padlock is disabled. There is a mixed bunch of those with TrackIR and those without.

Obviously the host doesn't need to use padlock with his hardware exploit, so this places the users without TrackIR at a disadvantage.
Padlock will let you track an aircraft without thinking about it, and TrackIR will let you track an aircraft without thinking about it (by just moving your head).

With padlock disabled certain people on that server now have a disability. TrackIR on padlock disabled servers is an unfair advantage and thus a cheat in this case.

If peeps are using TrackIR but Padlock is still available then both sets of players have a means to track an aircraft.

Disable padlock then one party has the edge. In this case it is a an exploit. Exploit = cheat.

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Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 11:11 PM
What advantage does TrackIR have over mouse look? It doesn't find a target for you. It doesn't lock onto a target. If the plane goes out of sight, you don't see it anymore. What is this cheating advantage that it has?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:20 PM
Again, you totally MISSED it. Even with Trackir, if someone pulls a dropping manuver then turns in the process, you can still lose them. It happens all the time. I lost sight of the guy in front of me many times when this happens. With padlock, you dont have to LOOK for the plane. The game SHOWS you where they are. And like i said before, i dont think that padlock is a cheat, its just a tool in the game i dont agree with. And again i tell you, that trackir is a TOOL to be used with the game.

If you see a server that has padlock disabled, then if you are goin to join it, you better be ready to fly against people that use trackir. Plain and simple. The server, server admin, or trackir users are not putting YOU at a disadvantage, you are putting doing it to YOURSELF! You know damn well and good that if padlock is disabled, people are going to be flying with Trackir or some other means of mouse panning. I have seen ALOT of pilots that can use a hatswitch just as well as i can use Trackir. And they fly on full real servers all the time against trackir users and hold their own on any given day. So how is this cheating. Cheating to me is creating an unfair advantage for youself without others knowing it. So with that said, you know they are going to be flying with trackir, so they are not cheating. Get on a server that has padlock and play your game. Dont come in here and complain that your are somehow being taken advange of because you dont have some particular tool to play a game.

I am really starting to take offense to people telling me how to setup my server. If you want a server with soem particular settings, then you FORK out the money for the host, setup the server, maintain it, and make sure that it is running everyday. What??? You can't do that. Well then you have to just take advantage of OTHER peoples servers now don't you. So are you cheating me? Send me some money for the hosting and i will gladly work our some sort of agreement on the server settings. But untill that happens, Take it or leave it. Over the past few weekends, my server has been Full and near full. So that tells me there are people out there that like the settings. They know the settings, its right in the server description.

well another rant gone wild http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Starting to get like a Jerry Springer Show in here.

To sum it up i guess i would say it like this AGAIN. If you dont have the tools to fly full real, then dont play on full real servers. Plain and simple

Ares

aka SParX



Message Edited on 10/07/0310:23PM by Ares_22nd

adlabs6
10-07-2003, 11:21 PM
Scragbat wrote:
- So it's not a cheat?
-
- Here's a scenario:
-
- A server is being hosted by someone with trackIR and
- padlock is disabled. There is a mixed bunch of
- those with TrackIR and those without.

I'll do even better! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Seriously, I love no padlock servers. I live longer, and I make more kills and RTB, all just using the good old hat switch. I rock at it. Hatswitch is a skill, just like flying, and after a year and a half of use, I don't even think about the hatswitch, it just does what I think. No cheating involved!

BTW, I've been thinking of getting a TrackIR, since it also works with FS2k4. But then that CH Pro Yoke keeps popping up...

Oh... decisions, decisions... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:26 PM
adlabs6,

you posted this while i was editing my post http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . And you put it very nicely, Using the hatswitch is a skill. And so is Trackir. How many people got their trackir and were using it to its full potential in the first day. I can tell you i wasnt. It took me weeks to "learn" how to use it properly. I would get lost looking around all the time and lose my situation awareness.


ares

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:26 PM
What advantage indeed?

You have two hands and a head I'm guessing?
One hand for the Joystick? One hand for the keyboard (unless of course you have everything mapped to your joystick which is unlikely)? And one head for controlling your TrackIR. Well that's dandy.

OKaaaaaayyyy....
The user without TrackIR has one hand for the joystick and one for the keyboard, and you want him to use one of these hands to use his mouse to pan his view accurately during combat??
Well that don't work mate.
Why don't the TrackIR users put one hand behind their back each time they turn their head during combat?
The person without TrackIR can't use that hand in two places at once. With TrackIR it's almost like you have a third hand.
Is this an ignorant view of TrackIR? Or have I hit the nail on the head in what it can do for you ingame?

Plain and simple. If you have a server with padlock disabled and people on that server are users of TrackIR then they have an unfair advantage. It's that simple.

Buzz_25th wrote:
- What advantage does TrackIR have over mouse look? It
- doesn't find a target for you. It doesn't lock onto
- a target. If the plane goes out of sight, you don't
- see it anymore. What is this cheating advantage that
- it has?
-
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:29 PM
I use it quiet often. Not turning padlock on my server off for that reason. Fair is fair.

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 11:30 PM
Who uses the keyboard? I never touch it once the flight starts. You not only don't want to not buy TrackIR. You don't want to buy a good joystick either.

btw..Go back and read my post where I described how you can use mouse look just as good or better than TrackIR.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:39 PM
Scragbat wrote:
- What advantage indeed?
-
- You have two hands and a head I'm guessing?
- One hand for the Joystick? One hand for the
- keyboard (unless of course you have everything
- mapped to your joystick which is unlikely)? And one
- head for controlling your TrackIR. Well that's
- dandy.
-
- OKaaaaaayyyy....
- The user without TrackIR has one hand for the
- joystick and one for the keyboard, and you want him
- to use one of these hands to use his mouse to pan
- his view accurately during combat??

Ok. it's one-eyed country and you must put out one of my two eyes cause I purchaed one more eye with some money. Then you'll be satisfied. Is it right?

Joystick and PC also did not come along with FB. What's that serious about TrackIR? It's just a next step device over crappy hat switch. PL? pfff.. that's just a s**t.


=======================================
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:44 PM
I use Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold USB stick. An excellent stick used by many here.

I have the key controls that I feel are important and needed quickly during combat mapped to my Saitek. Anything else that is not required urgently is on my keyboard.
Perhaps I should buy a more expensive joystick so I can map the 'chat' key to it? Save me having to move my left hand 2 inches to the left to press 'T'!

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adlabs6
10-07-2003, 11:44 PM
Ares_22nd wrote:
- Using the hatswitch is a
- skill. And so is Trackir. How many people got
- their trackir and were using it to its full
- potential in the first day.

Very true, I played with the cam2pan setup for a month, and I got it working great with a red LED on a hat. Fast, and smooth enough to really enjoy it. I know that trackIR is better, which is why I've considered buying now and again.

But the point is, I hated the head tracking for the longest. I could never get the stupid thing to feel right, but with time, and certainly by the time my cam2pan demo ran out (a month), I was using it VERY well. In fact, I didn't even have to think about it anymore (other than aiming), which I liked. I still got very tense in my neck and shoulders while using it, but I guess that too would go away with a few more weeks use.

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Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 11:51 PM
Scragbat

Now your babbling. First you need a free hand to work your keyboard. Now you don't use it much. Why is it that you can't use mouse look then? Why is it that the hat switch doesn't work for you? A lot of guys are really good with it.


If you ever try trackIR, you'll see how much harder it is than padlock. IT'S JUST MOUSE LOOK! You have that available to you now if you'd stop whining and use it. I only got TrackIR when FB came out. All the time I played IL2 I used mouse look. When I got TrackIR. I didn't get any better. It was more natural, but not any better. Far far from a cheat, or any advantage.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:57 PM
I'm real glad you remembered to buy these two important devices for your game TooCooL34.

The majority of TrackIR users will fiercely defend their purchase as is evident.

My point (which is being sidestepped) is that some TrackIR users are using it as an exploit by turning off PL on their servers knowing full well that the majority of users do not have TrackIR. This hands them an unfair advantage.
This is a fact.
I'm sure it's a great device. I'm not saying it isn't.
I know that it is being exploited though, and so do many people.

TooCooL34 wrote:
Joystick and PC also did not come along with FB.

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:08 AM
There's never a time I don't use it, on or offline!
Keep practicing.. gets very natural after a bit.. Then you will never fly without it..

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:15 AM
Who said I didn't use the HAT switch?
I didn't say that.
I use the HAT Switch along with JoyToKey.
(Here come the flames of 'mouse emulating HAT switch exploit!').
I join servers that have Padlock and those that don't and use whatever is available to me and have a jolly good time.

I'm just saying that TrackIR is being used as an exploit in some cases by some people. In these situations it could be construed as a cheat.
Please prove me wrong...

There are TrackIR users deliberatley disabling PL knowing that not all people who join their server is going to have TIR.
That is an unfair advantage.
Perhaps for some people HAT can become second nature. As easy and natural as using TIR. Then you could say that it is an even playing ground for all. We know this isn't true though.

Some people are getting very upset by this.
I've noticed.

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Message Edited on 10/08/0312:17AM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:16 AM
I don't have Track IR (yet) and I always fly in servers with padlock disabled.

I can hold my own using the hat switch.

If the host has track IR, and padlock disabled, that doesn't bother me at all.

I have a x-36. I dont need to touch the keyboard at all. does this make me a cheat if i host a game with CEM enabled?

All my CEM stuff is on the stick, maybe i should think of the guy with a 2 button stick, and disable CEM, as I am obviously at an advantage if i don't have to reach for the keyboard

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:26 AM
IV_JG51_Swine wrote:
IV_JG51_Swine wrote:
- Track ir gives you the same exact view as what you
- cold see with the mouse being utilized. Nothing
- else. Thats no cheat buddy, your basically moving
- your head verses using the mouse - NO DIFFERENT.
- Copperhead, do you use track ir or own one?
-


No i do not own or use a track ir.
but if i could afford to blow the cash
on a track ir i would probably use it.
But i would NEVER limit anyone form using padlock
if i'm running a server & useing track IR.
Nor would i fly on a sever with out padlock if i am using track ir. I know what it is & i know what it does.
So IMO it creates an uneven playing field.




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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:30 AM
Winter is making a point that i am tryin to get thru this guys think skull as well. If what he is saying holds true, then anyone that has more then a Microsoft 4 button joystick is cheating. Because they have the ability to make controlling their aircraft and views better then others.

You are obviously a very narrow minded person if you cannot see what people are trying to say her. Trackir is not use to exploit the weakness of others. And i as i keep repeating, DONT JOIN FULL REAL servers if you arent not ready to go up against someone with Trackir or any other means of controling their mouselook. As for your third hand comment. So everyone that has a mouse stick on their throttle MUST be exploiting you as well. They dont have to take their hands off of their sticks to control their views either. So again i say, do you want to call everyone person that owns a Saitek X45, Ch pro throttle, and Cougar cheaters? They dont need a third hand to control their mouse looks either.

Just do me a favor, dont ever come on my server. I really dont want to hear you whine that its unfair. If you dont like padlock disabled, DONT PLAY ON THE SERVERS!
How much simpler cna this be. I mean if you like having Lockable Radar in a WW2 plane, then so be it. Honestly thats what i think padlock is.

Ares

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:30 AM
I am an openminded sort and I can admit mistakes (unlike some).
I am not getting a lot of support in my statements here.
Which either means the majority of people here are TrackIR users, maybe people who agree with me don't want to join the debate or perhaps I am genuinely wrong in my assumption.
If I have caused offence to people then I apologise.
This is simply a debate, and some people are just getting too upset over something that is just a debate.
My point (which I will make one last time) was that I believe some people could be using the device as an unfair advantage over those that don't have it.
I could be wrong and you can tell me I am.

Must go to bed now.
Work in the morning.
Regards
Scrag...

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 12:32 AM
Scragbat

You miss the whole point of my arguement, and never address it.

You assume that TrackIR is not only an advantage, but an exploit. (funny really). Why do you think this? What does it do that the mouse doesn't do?

I don't believe hosts disable padlock because they think they have an advantage with TrackIR. they disable it because they don't like padlock. Just like most online wars don't like padlock.

Let me repeat. TrackIR feels more natural than moving a mouse BUT, it doesn't work any better.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:34 AM
Did you not read the post by the individual that stated that he uses a hatswitch and only flys on non Padlock servers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


I mean really its just a matter of choice. Its evident that if you see a server has no Padlock, that there will be trackir users there. Its not like they are sitting in a darkcorner snickering "HEHEE, i will turn off padlock, put on my trackir so i can shoot everyone down." Padlock is off for realism only. So if you dont have the TOOLS or the ABILITY to play full real settings, then stay off full real servers.

Honestly, i dont know how this always gets blow up like this. Everyone has an opinion, thats all their is to it. And i think the reason you have so many trackir users getting irate in this post is because you are callin them cheaters. I personally take offense to being called a cheater that is for sure. But what i dont understand is how you can sit there , knowing of all the other means to control your view out there, and say that Trackir users are the only cheaters out there. Take the TM Cougar setup for instance (sorry Cougar owners, just easy to use as an example). Probably damn near all of them NEVER touch their keyboards. They have every control you could image mapped to their sticks and throttles. If they are anything like i was, they have their mouseview controlled via the mousestick on the throttle. So their hands never leave their controls for the keyboard. Now, if they setup a server with no pad lock, are they cheating? They dont have to move their hands to control their views. Should they cut off their thumbs so they cannnot use this "advantage" over a Saitek Cyborg user? Honestly, have you sat down and read what is being said here. If you have, you surely dont comprehend it and i am sorry for that. There are THOUSANDS of users everyday on this forum. And if the majority of them considered Trackir a Cheat like you do, then i am sure they would be in here flooding this thread just as you are. So i guess you are a minority in your stand on Trackir. Ever think maybe you should consider why that is?

ares


Message Edited on 10/07/0311:45PM by Ares_22nd

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:47 AM
Scragbat wrote:
- Who said I didn't use the HAT switch?
- I didn't say that.
- I use the HAT Switch along with JoyToKey.
- (Here come the flames of 'mouse emulating HAT switch
- exploit!').
- I join servers that have Padlock and those that
- don't and use whatever is available to me and have a
- jolly good time.
-
- I'm just saying that TrackIR is being used as an
- exploit in some cases by some people. In these
- situations it could be construed as a cheat.
- Please prove me wrong...
-

You have a nice joystick with a HAT switch? Damn I wish i could afford one of those. Doesn't that give you an unfair advantage over me Scragbat????

I'm just saying that Joysticks with HAT switches are being used as an exploit in some cases by some people. In these
situations it could be construed as a cheat.

Please prove me wrong...

<center>[b]Gundog1[b]</center>
<Center></center

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:54 AM
Like I said before, I only fly on servers with padlock off. There IS a cheat/exploit that allows you to follow me wherever I go (through clouds, etc) with padlock ON. If I fly in a server with padlock off, and I fly through clouds, I know the guy behind cannot follow me.

I have got reasonably good at the hat switch. I WILL buy track IR (if the wife doesn't notice the 100 on my credit card)

Using hardware isn't a cheat.

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:59 AM
Gundog1 has IMO made the final point.

We are all cheats.
I have HAT your joystick doesn't.
I can map all controls to my Joystick you can't.
I have TrackIR you have mouse.
I have a 22inch monitor you have 15inch.
I have Nvidia you have ATI and more fps.
I have more RAM you don't and have stutter.
I am an Ace and you are not.
I'm on 56K you're on ADSL.
Of course we are not cheats, we just use what is available to us.

BTW was on a 'No Padlock' server tonight and I whupped a$$!
I do hope the server had TIR /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

So in answer to the original posters question - I don't.


Gundog1 wrote:
-
- Scragbat wrote:
-- Who said I didn't use the HAT switch?
-- I didn't say that.
-- I use the HAT Switch along with JoyToKey.
-- (Here come the flames of 'mouse emulating HAT switch
-- exploit!').
-- I join servers that have Padlock and those that
-- don't and use whatever is available to me and have a
-- jolly good time.
--
-- I'm just saying that TrackIR is being used as an
-- exploit in some cases by some people. In these
-- situations it could be construed as a cheat.
-- Please prove me wrong...
--
-
- You have a nice joystick with a HAT switch? Damn I
- wish i could afford one of those. Doesn't that give
- you an unfair advantage over me Scragbat????
-
- I'm just saying that Joysticks with HAT switches are
- being used as an exploit in some cases by some
- people. In these
- situations it could be construed as a cheat.
-
- Please prove me wrong...



<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Message Edited on 10/08/0301:09AM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:07 AM
I believe I was wrong.
Don't beat me up anymore /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


Buzz_25th wrote:
- Scragbat
-
- You miss the whole point of my arguement, and never
- address it.
-
-
- You assume that TrackIR is not only an advantage,
- but an exploit. (funny really). Why do you think
- this? What does it do that the mouse doesn't do?
-
-
- I don't believe hosts disable padlock because they
- think they have an advantage with TrackIR. they
- disable it because they don't like padlock. Just
- like most online wars don't like padlock.
-
-
- Let me repeat. TrackIR feels more natural than
- moving a mouse BUT, it doesn't work any better.
-

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:08 AM
TrackIR is just a crutch for people that can't use padlock.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:09 AM
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think he finally GOT IT! It finally sank in. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Now i can sleep easier tonight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thanks man

ares

Yes i have trackir, and i wont fly without it.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:12 AM
Don't take the pi$$ or I'll whup you online /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Ares_22nd wrote:
- OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
- I think he finally GOT IT! It finally sank in.
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . Now i can sleep easier tonight /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
- thanks man
-
- ares
-
- Yes i have trackir, and i wont fly without it.
-
-

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Message Edited on 10/08/0301:15AM by Scragbat

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 01:17 AM
Ray said:

"TrackIR is just a crutch for people that can't use padlock."


Wrong Rayslider. Padlock is for guys who can't use TrackIR.

Didn't you try trackIR, and said it didn't work?




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:18 AM
Scragbat, anytime my man, anytime. UBI Server: |FAST| server. Hope to see you there.

RaybanJoky,

u got to be kiddin me right? Crutch? I would venture to say that anyone that uses trackir has used padlock with no problems. I used it for all of about a month before i decided i didnt like the arcade feeling it brought to the game. It just takes all the skill out of flying, and takes anyway any skills advange your foe may have. Honestly, u really think that is it correct that a lil triangle should lockon an enemy and allow you to follow him through clouds? Because that is what it does. Plain and simple. In fact, i bet if you asked Oleg why its in there, he would tell you that padlock was put in as a "crutch" for users since we are using small monitors to help them out.

ares

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:25 AM
If you cycle your icon views you can get padlock without the triangle (you know this of course).

I should go to bed, but the lure of your server is too much.
This could be embarrasing /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
Not for you but for me LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ares_22nd wrote:
- Scragbat, anytime my man, anytime. UBI Server:
- |FAST| server. Hope to see you there.
-
- RaybanJoky,
-
- u got to be kiddin me right? Crutch? I would
- venture to say that anyone that uses trackir has
- used padlock with no problems. I used it for all of
- about a month before i decided i didnt like the
- arcade feeling it brought to the game. It just
- takes all the skill out of flying, and takes anyway
- any skills advange your foe may have. Honestly, u
- really think that is it correct that a lil triangle
- should lockon an enemy and allow you to follow him
- through clouds? Because that is what it does. Plain
- and simple. In fact, i bet if you asked Oleg why
- its in there, he would tell you that padlock was put
- in as a "crutch" for users since we are using small
- monitors to help them out.
-
- ares
-
-
-
-



<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 02:01 AM
I use it, and it takes alot of work for me. I still get disoriented sometimes. But, as others have said, other methods feel odd after using it for a while. As for banning it, that is over-reaction. It doesn't do anything FOR you and is not automatic in any way.Unlike snap or pan, you can't just bob your head around while you're trying to concentrate on some moving point in space. You can't have lapses in concentration, or you might disorient yourself. Try doing that sometime. Compare it to writing with your nose. The guys who are good at it, work at it. There's nothing cheating about that.If there is any advantage, it is that you can train yourself to always have a bit of cockpit in view, which helps you figure out your plane's attitute. Also, you can lead a target, and kind of figure out what his options are. For example, you look ahead of him a bit and see he'll have to slow down because he's misjudged his height and is closer to the ground than he wanted to be. He may have to waste some of his energy to correct. But honestly, immersion is it's strong point, not some magical advantage.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 02:22 AM
Scragbat

sparx@fastclan.com is my MSN.. just let me know where you are around http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Hehehe i will hope on and fly with ya anytime http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 05:54 AM
Ray Ban wrote:
It sucks. Device doesn't refresh high enough for
smooth panning. If you use TrackIR you are
decreasing your realism tenfold. Welcome to the
world of computers.


I really think you should be called RAIN MAN JOCKEY
Because as smart as you are, you still don't know how much a candy bar costs.

Hundreds of people on the forum extoll the virtues of Track IR. Telling of the added realism... how much it adds to their experience.... how INDISPENSABLE it is, and all you can parrot is K Mart sucks.
(ooooooops, I mean Track IR sucks)

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:24 AM
I found your server last night and found it tough to say the least /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
One thing I found curious though.
Full Real but with external padlock????
Don't think you were there, but still got my butt kicked /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


Ares_22nd wrote:
- Scragbat
-
- sparx@fastclan.com is my MSN.. just let me know
- where you are around /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Hehehe i will hope on and
- fly with ya anytime /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-



<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

T_O_A_D
10-08-2003, 09:01 AM
Well for all to know.


If I'm serving Padlock is off/ and I have TrackIr. And it doesn't make me Uber at all! I'm the only one in my squad with it and I'm always getting waxed.

I see it as no cheat. Padlock is as far as I'm conserned it is like flying against and AI that has some flying skill. After all the game is thinking for you just as it is for the AI you just can't shoot as good as they do /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

It is only a game, but it is a war. In real life did not the two sides try and come up with hardware to improve their chances in battle? Yes of course they did. Thus the reason we all do now. Back then it was an evolution in machines and skill, the same thing can be said of today.

I got soured on Padlock in CFS once I found out you could use it to see even when your screen was blacked out from G force. Since then I have only tried to fly it once. It was in a server on Hyper and I met up against Bearcat99 we had a little tussle and flak killed him I landed with damge ensured by him. I noticed padlock was able to trak him even when I was blacking out. LAME it was. Never used it since because that was the week I got TrackIr.

Another thing even when I'm in a room that allows HUD I'm in the cockpit. Do to the fact that I get easily disorented with TrackIr when I can't see my cockpit. Now then that means I'm being cheated of more view, using TrackIr.

As far as RBJ goes He is the only one I know here that cheats. He has admmittedly said he screwed around with the games config to change the trim response. Am I wrong about that being a cheat? If so let me know.

I say all is fair with hardware but screwing with the games config to gain an advantage is wrong. Messing with it to get rid of text or add gore is just eye candy and won't give you any advantage at all. I still fly with stock joystick settings Even when I added my ch rudder pedals I copied the stock settings and pasted them on config for my Joystick axis. The only tweaking I did was in the game interface for the joystick one (rudder pedals) was to turn the first 4 bands down to zero for my toe brake axis, I tend to drag on the brakes if I don't.

The only true way to have a completely fair fight is at a LAN party with all the machines/hardware/game set the same. Then it would be left up to the individual to perform the best over his Foe.

My 2 cents




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Message Edited on 10/08/0309:23AM by T_O_A_D

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:27 AM
Scragbat wrote:

Some people are getting very upset by this.
- I've noticed.


Really? why would people get upset when you call them cheats,what a fool



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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:43 AM
I don't see why using track ir is considered cheating.but i do agree that padlocking somebody is no matter if it is something that came from the stock settings in the game.I'm all for it if somebody has the extra cash to buy it and can improve their skills using it.It just makes it more of a chalange for the guys like me with out it

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 10:53 AM
Well I would say on a non-padlock server trackir does give the user an advantage. Even if it is just like using a mouse it does not require using an extra hand.

Yet I wouldn't call it a cheat. Then I would have to call myself a cheat if I was flying against anyone who didn't have a force feedback joystick.

I don't use trackir though it's way too expensive for what it does. Besides if I'm tracking a target I do just use the mouse. Then again I fly fine left handed, and when tracking a target your not exactly trying to put your sights on them.
When the action starts I go to the hat switch. I've gotten so used to using it might as well be a trackir.

Then also to call trackir users cheaters you would have to say that everyone with a 19" monitor, and a top end system were cheaters. As a bigger monitor, and high resolution allows easier spotting of enemy aircraft and targets especially on full realism.

In fact I would have to say someone with a really hot system and a big monitor have more of an advantage than trackir users.

Then everyone who has 56k would need their own server as flying against DSL users puts them at a disadvantage.

Simply put nothing in life is "fair".

The only thing the above comprison don't include are those freaks of nature they want to use 2 joysticks to be able to trim turn. Now that is taking an error in the flight model and using it as an unfair advantage. Simply because it was never meant to be used in that manner.

This is a simulator not a game.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 11:02 AM
Read all posts before you insult me.
I admitted I may have been wrong.
Fool.


pourshot wrote:
Really? why would people get upset when you call them cheats,what a fool

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

Message Edited on 10/08/0311:04AM by Scragbat

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 11:33 AM
Scragbat.
Dont worry, externals are going off very soon. Icons got an adjustment lastnight as well. Glad you found teh server and found it hard. Thats the point. I dont like an easy game. Wanna be challenged. Thats why i enjoy sims so much.

anyway, maybe we will cross gunsights tonight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ares

aka sparx

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 11:36 AM
An endless debate. There is no point aguing about it. I personally prefer padlock, have used it since my 1942 flight simulator days and FB did come with it. However, whichever you prefer, just be a little discerning with the servers you choose to fly in. I usually look for padlock enabled, full realisim, no icons or externals if they are around (same as VEF in the old IL2 days). If I do go in a server without padlock, then I choose bombers, or something where I don't close quarter dogfight and don't have to compete at a disadvantage. Necessary, because I suck at using a mouse and don't think looking like a Star Trek convention groupie is worth the money as yet. Will wait for cheaper, newer and improved technology. Hopefully, all you gamers out there who have purchased or anticipating to purchase it, will push the unit price of Track-IR down to a realistic level and eliminate the refresh rate bugs. So buy up. In the meantime, if the online gaming community is divided on this issue, or it discourages new gamers to online flying, then so be it.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:54 PM
Not tonight old bean.

Staying at my girlfriends who is without a PC /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

...but maybe tomorrow night /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If I can find the time... Working on my next movie you see.

May have a break from it though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:11 PM
Don't have it.
Would like it.
Use padlock if its available
If not I don't
Use map icons if available
If not I don't
Don't care what server I join as long as:

1) Theres some nice people in it


er thats it really.

hey, I know, why don't I say that people using ADSL are cheating as their ping is lower than my 56k modem and therefore they are not really there when I shoot at them!

Surely that could start a new arguement.

Oh hold on, I just realised I don't care.

One last point:

Thought this quote from Mr RayBan was worth repeating:

"You just put it on your head and look around like Stevie Wonder and think "gee this is cool"

very funny.





Cpt-Madcowz
Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:33 PM
i don`t use it.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:49 PM
Warning: I will sya obvious things to ppl that have read the rest of the thread. I just wanted to add my 2c.

I use Cam2Pan.

* It doesn't require me to wear anything (to some it does, it seems, see the LED thing)

* It was quite cheap (not that I couldn't afford TIR, only I wasn't sure I would have liked it)

* It worked flawlessly after a couple of days of setup

* I could try before buy it.

I think C2P is the best publicity for TIR, because of the last point, although I wouldn't want to wear something else than my headphones, and those are IR based so they may conflict with TIR.

Padlock has always been a debated issue, in all sims.

Somehow, it always manages to give innatural aid to the player (ability to discerm friends and foes, to automagically track planes, to mark them with a bright spot defeating camos, etc, depending on the sim).

In a WWII sim this is much more evident, since you have no radar and padlock is almost like one.

I always hated to resort to padlock. Playing with TIR or C2P is much more natural and realistic, certainly not easier.

If I was playing very manoeuvrable planes by choice (which I don't) I would only join non-padlock servers if available, since padlock would waste a good part of my job (surprise).

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 02:07 PM
Message Edited on 10/09/0312:09AM by pourshot

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 02:09 PM
I certain don't concider Track IR to be a cheat. I don't have it but would not be afraid to fly against someone who does have it. If you beat me, I will be the last person to say you have an unfair advantage. Thats like saying someone with a bigger minitor, better joystick, faster PC etc has an unfair advantage.....pure poppycock!

Padlock is something I don't like but I'll still let ppl have it flying full real. And you can bounce someone who is using padlock but there is much less of a chance of it working. They usually lock on to you from 5 k out before you can get in to position.


<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering

Hawgdog
10-08-2003, 02:23 PM
I use it, I think two or three of our squaddies do.
Its like foot pedals, its the next step add-on.

So, whats the talley?? How many, anyone keeping score????

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:02 PM
I DON`T use Track I R, I play plenty of times against my squad m8s who have it (and others) and have no trouble keeping SA and taking them down.

The important thing is simply to have your viewing setup so you can see all round quickly (well as far as cockpit will allow).

I use mouse now, I use to use padlock, but that is actually a limitation and will disadvantage you to IR users.

Advice to non IR users:
If you want to negate their advantage use the mouse. It`s strange at first but once used to it you`ll never use padlock. Padlock tracking is bad too, cos it blinkers you on ONE target and takes time to lockoff. Set mouse control speed reasonable high so it`ll move quick (natural head speed).

Once you get it you can track multiple planes with same efficency as TIR.

TIR s for people who just must keep up with the Jones. I`m sure it`s good, but it will not make any one better than an already proficient pilot.

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:25 PM
I use TrackIR for every sortie both on and offline. I also have the pan views set to one of my CH Throttle hats in case the TrackIR hangs up because of lighting or not having my head aligned to the "eye" correctly or whatever.


http://home.comcast.net/~wolfrum_5.jg52/WOLF1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 05:12 PM
Hi,

This certainly opened up a can of worms...which is what I hoped.

I've been experimenting with newview, padlock and the hatswitch (the latter I find annoying, though) and I find padlock to be the most effective way of tracking targets BUT I also think it is 'cheating' (in terms of realism) as you can use it to pick out a difficult to discern target or one hidden by the cockpit canopy.

I think this is similar to the same old debate that revolves around motor sports whereas you have formulas where everyone has to use the 'same equipment' (car type/engine power output/tyres) against formulas that allow freedom to advance technology etc. Personally, I prefer racing where everyone has the same kit because it shows *who is the better driver*; I realise this argument can be extended to say that everyone should be forced to have to fly the same crate in a given server but we have to exercise common sense.

Personally, I would like to see servers indicating whether they are track ir or not (although there is no way to police this) so at least people have a choice in the matter. If you are sh*t hot w/o track ir then you can take your chances but that is your choice. Irrespective of whether people think this/that/the other is cheating, it advertises the server content in the same way as the game settings are advertised (padlock/icons/etc)..,

Cheers,
Norris

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:28 PM
Hmmm....so you padlock dweebs feel that Track IR users are cheaters?

You have no idea what youre talking about.
You have, either never tried it.
Or tried it, and weren't comfortable with it.
Sorta like a pilot that is used to a twist stick, or keyboard for rudder control, trying out a set of rudder pedals for the first time. A very strange experience for someone who has never used them before.

I started flying FB with a sidewinder.
Right hand on stick (hat/snap views).
Left hand on throttle, flaps, and look up.
This is fine till you go into gun sight wiew.
That's when the mouse comes into play.
But since all of the people I know only have two hands...You have to give up something in order to use the mouse. Either control of flight, or, throttle, and flap control.

Yea sure, I guess you could use padlock. But I dont, I feel padlock is cheating (letting your computer track your opponent for you).
How is it, that none of you feel that padlock isn't cheating?

Anyway, so I get a little thumb scroller (hand-track) mouse like this
http://store3.yimg.com/I/trianglecables-site_1760_2309766

It took some getting used to, but I was able to use it for view scrolling, without losing throttle , and flap control.
You consider this cheating?

About the time I was getting use to this setup, I built a new system. The new board had no game port for my sidewinder, so I got a Saitek X45, a CH Pro Pedals USB, and Track IR,(no Linda Blair drvrs, cockpit always on) thinking this would be a fantastic setup (yeah, in a year or two...maybe it'll be as comfortable as the sidewinder that I'd use for so many years).

My point is, that anyone who thinks the Track IR (unlike padlock)is some sort of secret weapon, is full of it.

It's just another input device that is manipulated by the pilot. Except, rather than using one of his hands, feet, thumbs, or fingers, he uses his head.
I appologize for calling any non-dweebs, dweebs.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 10:36 PM
Biggest cheaters are the guys with latest gen video cards. Every time I fly with them they can spot contacts out twice as far as I can. That's pure cheating, no way do I got a chance. Should make the game so it doesn't work with those Ti-xxxx's and 9700 pro's, what a bunch of cheaters.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 11:15 PM
No Text

Message Edited on 10/08/0305:21PM by artjunky

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 04:28 AM
Copperhead, I am beginning to see why Oleg doesn't pay much attention to the forum anymore. Your paraphrased my statement and insinuated that what I was doing was cheating or dishonorable yet you don't even have any experience with the device. Track ir is nothing more than a way to adjust your view just as the mouse would in play. Padlock is more of a cheat than track ir(its very easy to lose sight w/ the tir btw). PL allows you to lock onto targets that you might not normally see and allows you to keep that lock under situations when you might lose it. This inhibits the ability of surprise. Surprise is the reason why 90-95% of every kill in WW2 was made. You can do what you like Copperhead but it doesn't take much courage to insult a person on the internet. Anyway, to the individual who asked the question about track ir I would definitely try it out, its worth it.



Message Edited on 10/09/0302:51PM by IV_JG51_Swine