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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 09:45 PM
Was wondering if anyone had any tips.

I got worked online last night - how do you keep your E up after a zoom climb? Merged with a P-40 last night - we both zoom climbed - I pulled back and rolled over to aim towards him - but practically lost all my energy. At the top of most zooms I end up stalling out or losing my advantage by turning.

What should I do?


<center> http://www.autumnhullphoto.com/fbsig.jpg

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 09:45 PM
Was wondering if anyone had any tips.

I got worked online last night - how do you keep your E up after a zoom climb? Merged with a P-40 last night - we both zoom climbed - I pulled back and rolled over to aim towards him - but practically lost all my energy. At the top of most zooms I end up stalling out or losing my advantage by turning.

What should I do?


<center> http://www.autumnhullphoto.com/fbsig.jpg

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XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 04:19 PM
Pulling back/rollover at the top did it.
You need to pull back earlier, when you still have enough E.
I personnally rarely end my BnZ like that. I like to bleed as little E as possible by smoothely pitching up after the dive and a climb angle around 60-70?, I then get back to a max rate of climb attitude when my speed approaches best climb speed. That way I keep climbing....Or I level off an accelerate.
With a FW190, I can dive to 650kph+ (faster is too hard to aim for me) and zoom back up gaining 1500-1800m and still climb after that at best rate...(15-16m/s)...

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:43 PM
I love flipping over at the top because the guy below me is about to do the same, and now I am pointing downwards at an "E"less enemy and I'm picking up speed, rat tat tat tat boom right into his canopy.

This of course only works if you had more speed to begin with, I do it to LA 7s and Yak 3s in QMB all the time, if I pull out before I lose E they just end up catching up with me cause they bleed E less at shallower angles, so I go steep until I'm down to 200Km/h then I start to pull over until I'm facing the ground again. Then wait till I have picked up some speed again so I can control my bird and then aim and fire.

Try to make your opponent turn before he follows you in a climb so he will have less speed and gently pull up don't yank it away.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 07:55 PM
Are using manual or automatic prop-pitch ?

Manual prop-pitch performs A LOT better.

Do not make hard moves with your elevators. You lose E a lot faster.

At the top cut the power (avoids some overheating), turn softly, use combat flaps (helps better control the plane at near-stall speed).

Although I think that against a P-40 the best method would be to disengage at a convenient moment, fly straight at the most inconvenient direction for the P40, increase separation distance as much as possible.
When the P40 has turned its nose towards you:
- If the separation distance is enough, start climbing slowly.
- If the separation distance is not enough to avoid the P40's machine guns (they shoot like laser guns!), start a spiral climb.
The P40 will most probably try to follow. Watch carefully the P40 behind you. The moment it breaks (or stalls) open combat flaps and turn to follow (carefull, you are at near stall speed yourself). The height advantage you have should be sufficient to close the gap easily.

If you fly full real it is not possible to climb straight and keep the view on the P40. For this reason I always fly spiral.
But it takes some time to get used to fly at near stall speed climbing while looking at the enemy at your 7.

S

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 08:36 PM
Base your tactics on the relative energy states at the merge. If you don't have enough energy advantage at the merge, then going into a zoom (up) can be deadly, because you'll get caught in "no-man's land". If the energy is equal, you either turn hard or keep on going. There is no in-between. It's like trying to loop with someone by only turning half as hard as you can ...you'll loose. If you do decide to zoom up in the 109, as your speed slows down (under 300km/h), use manual prop pitch to increase the revs. You will climb like a helocopter. As long as the prop doesn't spin so fast that it goes silent, you will be ok with the high revs for short durations (like this zoom climb). Do not back off the WEP/throttle until there is nothing left to be gained. When it is time to flip the nose over, slide it to the right. Even though the natural torque wants to go to the left, going to the right is smoother (because of the resistance).

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XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 10:13 PM
Don't zoom climb after the merge. At Co-E the you don't really hold enough of an advantage over an aircraft like the P-40.

One of the overall goals of energy fighting is to increase the margin, the amount of difference if you will, between your energy state and the energy state of your opponent.

You must use the climbrate of the 109 to the full - and not necessarily its zoom climb. Judging the energy state of your opponent is critical to your decision making process. If you judge him to be Co-E (this can be a little higher+slower or same hight+similar speed or lower+faster etc) then in the Emil you should not move too aggresively and go for a sustained climbing turn. Basically a climbing spiral.

You want the enemy to bleed his energy turning round to get "angles" on you and a gun solution. Keep your eye on him as he wheels round and slowly tighten your spiral - keep climbing and tightening until he has to let go. If he keeps pulling his nose up to get enough lead on you then he should be bleeding away his energy and all the time you are climbing - and potentially gaining energy.

When/If he stalls out - extend a little, pick up a little speed. Make a decision to either engage him - or gain a little more height and see what he does. If he goes defensive and tries to dive away you have him licked already. A fighter pilot in a defensive mood is as good as dead.

If, when you attack - he turns in defense don't turn WITH him, turn OVER him in a High Yo-Yo using the vertical :

http://www.ao.net/~chuck/atf/hsyoyo.jpg

If your gun attack fails - then disengage and climb again.

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


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XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 10:22 PM
The Bf 109's now get outclumb by nearly everything (yes, even the Il2). I recommend flying like Fw 190 pilots flew in FB1.0. Fly straight and level. Use superior speed in the 1941-42 period. After 1942 all you can do is turn fight. As absurd as it sounds the late model Bf 109's can out turn the La's at low speed. As you can tell I don't hold the 109's as modeled in much regard.

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XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 10:22 PM
I just pull up gently until I'm vertical, and climb until my speed gets down to around 230. I then pull back until I'm level and roll over so I'm no longer upside down.
Not only does this give me almost all of my altitude back anyway if they try to chase me up it also reverses my direction. So for a shot they have to climb inverted at 70 degree's to get deflection on me. It doesn't take but a few moments to reach optimal climb speed again from there either.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 10:48 PM
Maj_Death wrote:
- The Bf 109's now get outclumb by nearly everything
- (yes, even the Il2). I recommend flying like Fw 190
- pilots flew in FB1.0. Fly straight and level. Use
- superior speed in the 1941-42 period. After 1942 all
- you can do is turn fight. As absurd as it sounds the
- late model Bf 109's can out turn the La's at low
- speed. As you can tell I don't hold the 109's as
- modeled in much regard.

I can't agree. What model of IL2 can outclimb what model of 109? And what late model of 109 can out turn an La, even at low speeds?

And if you're talking about using superior speed in the 41-42 period, you better be talking above 3000m or a Mig 3AM- 38 will be all over you.





Message Edited on 09/25/0305:49PM by Chadburn

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 02:06 AM
IL2 early out climbs Bf 109F2 under combat conditions. Found that out the hard way in VEF on several occasions. Can climb with you up to about 4000m.

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 02:51 AM
Maj_Death wrote:
- IL2 early out climbs Bf 109F2 under combat
- conditions. Found that out the hard way in VEF on
- several occasions. Can climb with you up to about
- 4000m.


If this is the case then I can delete Youss's program from my hard drive.

When you say combat conditions, what do you mean? I'd really like to get a handle on this.

Thanks

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 06:39 AM
Not climbing in such a way that the I-153's can catch you. In other words, keeping speed above 270 km/h IAS. The Bf 109F2 eventually wins, but not until you reach about 4000m where the IL2 seems to hit its limit. It also means carrying plenty of fuel (75% in the tanks) and ammo.

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Message Edited on 09/26/0312:40AM by Maj_Death