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Grey_Mouser67
01-30-2006, 06:18 PM
I have no idea what "increased manueverability" means....I'm thinking the F model might get some well deserved turning ability as long as it isn't overbaked, but if for some reason it means increased elevator authority....please, pretty please don't forget the poor elevator authority/compressibility modelling of the P-38.

Not too many people say too much about it, but it is very poor relative to other aircraft and in real life, it was not....

Grey_Mouser67
01-30-2006, 06:18 PM
I have no idea what "increased manueverability" means....I'm thinking the F model might get some well deserved turning ability as long as it isn't overbaked, but if for some reason it means increased elevator authority....please, pretty please don't forget the poor elevator authority/compressibility modelling of the P-38.

Not too many people say too much about it, but it is very poor relative to other aircraft and in real life, it was not....

faustnik
01-30-2006, 06:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:
I have no idea what "increased manueverability" means....I'm thinking the F model might get some well deserved turning ability as long as it isn't overbaked, but if for some reason it means increased elevator authority....please, pretty please don't forget the poor elevator authority/compressibility modelling of the P-38.

Not too many people say too much about it, but it is very poor relative to other aircraft and in real life, it was not.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not so sure about that Mouser, the Spitfire and P-51 were known for their elevator authority at speeds, not the 109 or 38??????

Not arguing, just askin'. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brain32
01-30-2006, 06:28 PM
As much as I agree with your comments about P38, what's he point of posting this now? 4.02 is dying and many FM tunes are made according to the ReadMe we know nothing...
Can't we just delay all FM discussions until we see what is 4.03 like, we may be beating a dead horse and being completely unaware of it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Unless ofcourse you have some 4.03 info that made you start this thread...

Grey_Mouser67
01-30-2006, 07:47 PM
I am posting because I am afraid this will be the last patch...

Yes the P-38 had elevator authority...it is a well documented B&Z aircraft...much, like subjective things such as control authority, comes from pilot accounts...I have a book that describes a pilot hitting 500mph on his airspeed indicator in a power dive over New Guniea and having to ride the plane to 10,000 ft. before pulling out...it was near compressibility if not in it but because the dive started low enough he did not die...

Anyways, there are some physical things about the Lightning that lent itself to good elevator authority...namely the yoke and cockpit space which allowed a pilot to exert more on the yoke....the plane did lose authority once in compressibility, but it was abrupt, not like it is currently modelled....there is endless literature from official doucments on what compressibility was and was not.

Let me put it another way....the Lightning is probably the worst in terms of elevators, maybe the Mig is worse...but there is no reason for it to be worst. In that light it aught to be at least average...and probably good up to the point of compressibility and it should go from good authority to nil pretty quick from mach .68 to .72, or full compressibility.

In terms of control authority, the heavy US planes and the Fw all share something in common in that those planes could all "mush" at medium and high speed without vicious stall. A high speed accelarated stall that would cause pretty good energy bleed. The Lightning could do it at slow speed too and because of its props and stability, it wouldn't snap like the other three I mentioned...that is where the cloverleaf manuver comes from...an accelarated stall at slow speed without loss of control...you guys probably know this already if you read much about it...combined with its accelaration, it could recover speed quickly and repeat.

Anyways, it is and has been an issue with the Lightning...and to a lesser degree the Mustang and Jug. The Mustang just snaps on its back in high speed instead of mushing and the Jug doesn't have the elevator authority at high speed , but at medium speed will snap stall too as will the Fw.

Back when the Fw had its bad energy retention, I thought the mushing of the plane and the corresponding loss of energy was actually just like I had read...now it doesnt lose so much energy but you can mush the controls...the Lightning, Jug and Mustang aught to be able to do the same thing.

I would like to see it addressed, but I am not holding my breath. I don't want to see any planes penalized, but there is no reason for the Lightning to have the elevator authority it does...its ailerons got heavy, but its elevator and rudder were effective up to compressibility.

WWMaxGunz
01-31-2006, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
As much as I agree with your comments about P38, what's he point of posting this now? 4.02 is dying and many FM tunes are made according to the ReadMe we know nothing...
Can't we just delay all FM discussions until we see what is 4.03 like, we may be beating a dead horse and being completely unaware of it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Unless ofcourse you have some 4.03 info that made you start this thread... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Extreme agreement here.

Useless to discuss the condition of the sim we have when the dev team moved ahead already.
We will find out when we get 4.03.

VVS-Manuc
01-31-2006, 02:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
As much as I agree with your comments about P38, what's he point of posting this now? 4.02 is dying and many FM tunes are made according to the ReadMe we know nothing...
Can't we just delay all FM discussions until we see what is 4.03 like, we may be beating a dead horse and being completely unaware of it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Unless ofcourse you have some 4.03 info that made you start this thread... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Extreme agreement here.

Useless to discuss the condition of the sim we have when the dev team moved ahead already.
We will find out when we get 4.03. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Beware...it's the time of the pre-patch-whiners http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Hawgdog
01-31-2006, 05:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:
I have no idea what "increased manueverability" means...... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can now bail out at speeds up to 550kmh. This will help as you one wing spiral into the dirt

Grey_Mouser67
01-31-2006, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hawgdog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grey_Mouser67:
I have no idea what "increased manueverability" means...... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can now bail out at speeds up to 550kmh. This will help as you one wing spiral into the dirt </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Do you realize that might just double my K/D ratio more than any gun or performance boost...and that is the truth!